1924 Cadillac touring project Modesto CA craigslist

[Oregon Desert model 45]

For sale on Modesto California craigslist.
NOT MINE. I HAVE NO STAKE OR INTEREST IN THIS CAR.  

https://modesto.craigslist.org/cto/d/modesto-cadillac-1924/7113323359.html

 

1924 Cadillac with original motor which still turns over and would not be hard to get running.

Original black paint, which is in very good condition considering the age of the car; the car also

has a nice patina within the paint as well. There is also still the original factory hand-painted

pin-striping which runs along the side of the car, it is not visible in the pictures due to the

amount of dust on the car. The car has very little to no rust at all and has been kept indoors.

The car had a truck bed put on it many years ago, but I still have the real rear of the car with

the back seat to make it a sedan again, as well as the canvas top which will both come with the

car. I inherited this car from my great grandfather and am selling it to pay for college. My

grandfather knows much more about this car than I do so I am providing his phone number to call,

(209) 2 three three - 1 9 4 0. I know this care is rare and was top of the line back in the day so

I know it is worth a good amount of money and have seen restored models sell for anywhere from

$80,000 and up into the $100,000 dollar range. So I am looking for a price in the mid-$20,000

dollar range but am flexible and open to negotiate or possibly trade for a newer fuel efficient

car.

[Mark Wetherbee]

3 hours ago, Oregon Desert model 45 said:

I know it is worth a good amount of money and have seen restored models sell for anywhere from

$80,000 and up into the $100,000 dollar range. So I am looking for a price in the mid-$20,000

dollar range but am flexible and open to negotiate or possibly trade for a newer fuel efficient

car.

 

Have to admire his ignorance... mid 20’s🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

 

This one is on the HCCA for the same amount!

 

Edited May 7, 2020 by Mark Wetherbee (see edit history)

[C Carl]

Thank you for this lead, Oregon'. I would be interested in this car at a reasonable price. It is certainly an overwhelming project to "restore", but it would be cool to get running well and use as is. However a price in the $20s range is unrealistic, as is the 80-100 valuation for a restored '24 Cad these days. I did call grandfather who  is only 6 years younger than I am. Cad has not been started for over 15 years, so would have to drop the pan, clean out, and inspect the bearings before attempting to start. What do you guys think a reasonable price for this would be ?       Thanks for any input,    -    Carl 

 

P.S.   The touring you see is a 1918 Chandler, and will be up for sale also.

Edited May 7, 2020 by C Carl
Add P.S. (see edit history)

[Mark Wetherbee]

Hi Carl, I might have a skewed opinion but maybe $7500 on a great day even if he has the parts from the tow truck looking conversion. The earlier running one in Vermont would be worth a look if I were in the market.  You being on the opposite coast makes it a bit rougher once shipping is involved.

[Matt Harwood]

There's my Full Classic tow truck that I've been wanting! Wish he'd shown more of the bed that's on it now. I'm in at $6500 given that it will need a lot of work to be roadworthy as well as $2000 worth of shipping to get it home. Mid-$20s is pure dreamland. I sold this car a few years ago for $27,000 and felt lucky to get it.

 

 

Maybe I'll buy a used Prius and trade him...

[edinmass]

It's a 2500 car.......if you collect Cadillacs and need the extras........otherwise.........750.00

[C Carl]

Oh come on, Ed : it would be worth more than that as a parts car. But I certainly do understand where you are coming from to a certain degree. Present uneasy times, projects having taken quite a beating recently, etc. But I really do appreciate the input from all of you. I would like to buy it for a fair price. In the case of this car, I am concerned about the condition of the bearings. Years, (perhaps decades ?), since fresh oil was circulated, and the potential problems with galvanic erosion, obviously makes this a bit of the proverbial pig, (in a poke). The multiple plate clutch pak is another problem which could need attention if it is/will become fused with use. Of course this would not be the problem an engine overhaul would be in the case of re-babbitting necessities. Rings and valves at this mileage would be a routine procedure. Just getting this car thoroughly roadworthy would be an involved process, even assuming no real fundamental issues. But that type of work is something I enjoy very much. Problem for me, is that I am so busted-up that I would have to hire out most of the work in this late stage of the game for me.

 

Please do keep the comments coming. I am serious about this car, but can't afford to overpay for things anymore. I don't want to beat the owners up on this either. Just need a fair and reasonable price.     Thanks again for any help.    -   Carl 

[old car fan]

I do not agree with that,thinking 6 grand gives YOU some fun room.Not at all a parts car.

[old car fan]

A lot of neat stuff in the building.

[parrts]

I like those NON SKID tires!

[B Jake Moran]

Seller is typical delusional next gen kid who is just seeing dollar signs.  It’s a cool artifact 

[edinmass]

16 hours ago, C Carl said:

Oh come on, Ed : it would be worth more than that as a parts car. But I certainly do understand where you are coming from to a certain degree. Present uneasy times, projects having taken quite a beating recently, etc. But I really do appreciate the input from all of you. I would like to buy it for a fair price. In the case of this car, I am concerned about the condition of the bearings. Years, (perhaps decades ?), since fresh oil was circulated, and the potential problems with galvanic erosion, obviously makes this a bit of the proverbial pig, (in a poke). The multiple plate clutch pak is another problem which could need attention if it is/will become fused with use. Of course this would not be the problem an engine overhaul would be in the case of re-babbitting necessities. Rings and valves at this mileage would be a routine procedure. Just getting this car thoroughly roadworthy would be an involved process, even assuming no real fundamental issues. But that type of work is something I enjoy very much. Problem for me, is that I am so busted-up that I would have to hire out most of the work in this late stage of the game for me.

 

Please do keep the comments coming. I am serious about this car, but can't afford to overpay for things anymore. I don't want to beat the owners up on this either. Just need a fair and reasonable price.     Thanks again for any help.    -   Carl 

 

Carl...........the price I posted is accurate. No one would buy that car that has any sanity as a project. Since I have owned and been active in the early Cadillac world from 1912 to 1933, I know what people are looking for.......almost no one is driving V63's, which I believe this car is off the top of my head. Why so low? Shipping for that pile from Modesto to the east coast or center of the country is going to cost more than the parts car value. You can buy 300 great pre war Cadillacs right now that all run and drive for very, very reasonable money.    When FANTASTIC 100 point CCCA Cadillacs sell for numbers like they have been the last 18 months..........junk piles, parts cars, and project cars are bringing almost nothing today. I have purchased 7 Pierce Arrow cars in the last 12 months........I know the market. Cars selling under 100k right now (pre war) are in the tank( on value). Don't get me wrong.........cars are selling.  Even normally mid range cars that are running and driving are selling for .30-.50 cents on the dollar right now( from what we would call recent normals). And in the last few weeks, I have seen Brass tumble into the basement on even large horsepower cars. The super high end is fine. (500k and above) Most people are shocked to see what they are getting for offers on cars for sale right now. Many people just end up keeping the car when they run the numbers. I have a car I turned down 325k seven years ago( and I have 300 in it.). Today, I hope if I needed to sell it, I think the real number is 80. No one is immune to the market.  

 

 

The basic problem with almost every car in the market is your dollar buys two to three times the car it has in the past 15 years. So anyone with 50 or 100K has twenty times the options they have had in recent memory. 

 

PS- Remember on any car valued below say 50k, shipping the car long distance makes any deal difficult, as the shipping is a large percentage of the cost of the car. While shipping costs don't bother me as I do it often and am familiar with the current rates, many people almost pass out at the numbers quoted. The numbers and math on our hobby are shifting...........as they ALWAYS have. The fact they are changing in directions that we find unfavorable to sellers right now is the new issue. Honestly, if the market falls 70 percent from it's high.....I will have many more and better cars. In the past I have has 22 cars at one time. For the last three years I only have three cars and a vintage trailer......all of which I intend to die with, so they already have "zero" value....for me anyways. One last thought......on ANY pre war car..........its market value is directly related to how "drivable" it is. Cars that can keep up to modern highway speeds mean less trailering and investment for the car guy who doesn't have or want a tow truck and trailer. The good news is I see many more young people coming into the hobby, and they are very happy with the "non popular years, makes, and models" if they are well restored and turn key. 

 

 

 

 

Edited May 8, 2020 by edinmass (see edit history)

[mbenseignant@gmail.com]

Carl — I don’t think I’m divulging too much to remind you that you have a nice original V63 touring already! And what about the wonderful 26 Cadillac you love driving around? I see there is some enthusiasm for big old cars chopped up into trucks. I have never felt it myself. Keep reading craigslist and buy something that is less — well — ugly. Happy driving, all. By the way, Carl, I am counting on you to stay healthy and keep your V63. I still like checking it for authenticity now and again. In a few years I am going to retire and restore mine. I won’t be doing it for the money; in fact I will be doing it against the money. I have adopted the car, and it is now family, so there you have it.

[1912Staver]

3 hours ago, edinmass said:

 

Carl...........the price I posted is accurate. No one would buy that car that has any sanity as a project. Since I have owned and been active in the early Cadillac world from 1912 to 1933, I know what people are looking for.......almost no one is driving V63's, which I believe this car is off the top of my head. Why so low? Shipping for that pile from Modesto to the east coast or center of the country is going to cost more than the parts car value. You can buy 300 great pre war Cadillacs right now that all run and drive for very, very reasonable money.    When FANTASTIC 100 point CCCA Cadillacs sell for numbers like they have been the last 18 months..........junk piles, parts cars, and project cars are bringing almost nothing today. I have purchased 7 Pierce Arrow cars in the last 12 months........I know the market. Cars selling under 100k right now (pre war) are in the tank( on value). Don't get me wrong.........cars are selling.  Even normally mid range cars that are running and driving are selling for .30-.50 cents on the dollar right now( from what we would call recent normals). And in the last few weeks, I have seen Brass tumble into the basement on even large horsepower cars. The super high end is fine. (500k and above) Most people are shocked to see what they are getting for offers on cars for sale right now. Many people just end up keeping the car when they run the numbers. I have a car I turned down 325k seven years ago( and I have 300 in it.). Today, I hope if I needed to sell it, I think the real number is 80. No one is immune to the market.  

 

 

The basic problem with almost every car in the market is your dollar buys two to three times the car it has in the past 15 years. So anyone with 50 or 100K has twenty times the options they have had in recent memory. 

 

PS- Remember on any car valued below say 50k, shipping the car long distance makes any deal difficult, as the shipping is a large percentage of the cost of the car. While shipping costs don't bother me as I do it often and am familiar with the current rates, many people almost pass out at the numbers quoted. The numbers and math on our hobby are shifting...........as they ALWAYS have. The fact they are changing in directions that we find unfavorable to sellers right now is the new issue. Honestly, if the market falls 70 percent from it's high.....I will have many more and better cars. In the past I have has 22 cars at one time. For the last three years I only have three cars and a vintage trailer......all of which I intend to die with, so they already have "zero" value....for me anyways. One last thought......on ANY pre war car..........its market value is directly related to how "drivable" it is. Cars that can keep up to modern highway speeds mean less trailering and investment for the car guy who doesn't have or want a tow truck and trailer. The good news is I see many more young people coming into the hobby, and they are very happy with the "non popular years, makes, and models" if they are well restored and turn key. 

 

 

 

 

 

Ed, I hope your reality spreads geographically  over the next 5 years or so. Up here close to the North Western wilderness prices are still at 3 or 4 years behind  what you are seeing today.  Little inventory on the market apart from run of the mill cars , mostly rods but some vanilla vintage  cars as well. But prices are still like it is 2015. I doubt that many are selling but who knows. And many that do sell probably sound a lot better in U.S. dollars, at least until a couple of months ago that market seemed active.

Carl is almost next door to my area so he is probably seeing much the same in terms of selection and price.  We pay lots for almost everything over here, old cars are just the tip of the iceberg. 

 

Greg in British Columbia

Edited May 8, 2020 by 1912Staver (see edit history)

[edinmass]

Greg, I understand the challenges of selling cars up north. Sold one to Canada last year, and the deal almost dies due to the costs bringing it over the border. The supply in the lower 48 of cars under 250k is almost limitless. Just about any car you want to make a deal on is available. The seven figure cars are still changing hands and seem very little effected. Gas is getting so cheap, driving a monster engine Classic is more affordable than it has been for the last 40 years. 

[John_Mereness]

44 minutes ago, edinmass said:

Greg, I understand the challenges of selling cars up north. Sold one to Canada last year, and the deal almost dies due to the costs bringing it over the border. The supply in the lower 48 of cars under 250k is almost limitless. Just about any car you want to make a deal on is available. The seven figure cars are still changing hands and seem very little effected. Gas is getting so cheap, driving a monster engine Classic is more affordable than it has been for the last 40 years. 

Quite the challenge - we work with several people Concours wise as to how to deal with getting their cars across border and then how to store them so they can do the US Concours circuit over the year. 

[old car fan]

I still think a 6 grand,would be a fun project.Why not,and who is not driving the v63. We have and will when we get brakes done.So,it may Not take to much to get it going,pig in a poke,but @ 6 grand would be a steal.Not many people on here have a unlimited budget.By the way,our 63 still runs great on the junk Johnson.My brother rebuilt it,so maybe the bad,post ,May be they don't understand how they work.

Edited May 8, 2020 by old car fan (see edit history)

[JV Puleo]

9 hours ago, edinmass said:

 

Honestly, if the market falls 70 percent from it's high.....I will have many more and better cars.

 

 

I like that... and I like the cars from the "unpopular" years. Heck, if this keeps up I may actually own an open 20's car some day... that was something that was unthinkable for a person of modest means even 40 years ago.

[mikewest]

I think this caddy would be a perfect car to put one of this big white horses in the back and rig up so it can be driven from the saddle. I saw one running around at Hershey many years ago. Who was it a advertisement for?? soda pop??  saddle soap?. These are real cool.... I want one.

Edited May 9, 2020 by mikewest (see edit history)

[JV Puleo]

Moxie... there was one built on a RR chassis I once saw photos of. Moxie is a soda and some would say it is an acquired taste. I think it's the official soda of Maine.

[hidden_hunter]

Yep, V63 - there's a few bits and pieces missing from the engine like the distributor cover but looks like its mostly original under the hood. 

I think the challenge with these cars is that they're not cheap nor easy to work on, but equally don't bring huge money when completed - so unless you're doing it for the fun of it there are probably better choices out there 

 

That bumper is an original accessory as well, which isn't common to see 

[R Holden]

Did any miss that it has been turned into a "Ute" so a body from the back of the front seat back would be required? Not to mention iron, bow and lots of other bits! 

 

I don't want or need it however it is way better than a part car,  but $3-4k would stop me dead

[wayne sheldon]

1 hour ago, R Holden said:

Did any miss that it has been turned into a "Ute" so a body from the back of the front seat back would be required? Not to mention iron, bow and lots of other bits! 

 

R H, For whatever it is worth? In the Craig's List ad the seller does say he has the rear section of the body, and that it is to go with the car along with some other pieces he (his grandfather) has for it. It is still a huge restoration project, and quite frankly way overpriced for today's market. 

It is also interesting, while perusing the few websites I waste too much time on, yesterday after seeing this ad, I saw another ad for the rear section of an early '20s Cadillac touring car for sale somewhere else in the country. Was it here in parts or somewhere else? So right now might be a good time to get oneself into a Cadillac touring car project? But still, only if the price is right.

[BucketofBolts]

The car likely was coveted in early 1940s with gas rationing. My view is that it would make an interesting addition to a museum to import the problems with gas rationing in WW2. Otherwise, the car appears too far taken apart to justify a $120,000+ restoration (assuming the owner does not mind incurring another 1,500+ hours of his time unpaid) only to get it to look like it was when new and even if that occurred then the $64,000 question? What would be car of that era mid-1920s fetch at an auction? $60,000 if that much? 

 

My advice: Wait until the tax year when you are in a large tax bracket (which will be likely after the COVID-19 pandemic ends as Congress will need to put every living soul in the 90% tax bracket to pay for all the money being handed out). Then during that great year where the tax bracket is 90% donate the car to a museum with a claim that the car is worth what the owner dreams he will get in a private party sale and then "PRESTO", you have saved lots of tax dollars.  Otherwise, the car in its current condition would look great in the front of a beat up old Hardware store with some potted plants in the bed of the truck and a "dummy" made up to look like a celebrity (such as Bard Pitt)  carefully placed in the driver's seat.  "Brad's Feed & Seed". 

[JimKB1MCV]

What BucketofBolts says makes a lot of sense.. but (theres always a but, isn't there?)  it may be difficult to find a car museum, at least as we know them right now.

At least in this part of the US the 2020 tourist season looks like a wash and here in the northeast a big chunk of all the museums rely on the summer trade.

 

In March a friend and I took a overnight trip to Visit the Seal Cove collection and the Owls Head Transportation Museum fighting snow and ice on the roads and I'm really glad at this point we did that.

 

All the best to everyone.

 

[C Carl]

Just spoke with grandfather again. Turns out that actually the last time the engine was turned was perhaps 25 years ago. That was with the starter but the engine was not started at that time. So we don't know if the engine is free, nor the condition of the bores. Much less the 100 year old bearings. It is 100% certain that there are stuck valves here. Unknown whether water was drained, and the 2 waterpumps with their integrated thermostats will need attention. Unknown whether gasoline was drained, nor whether the system will hold pressure. Obviously the carburetor will need rebuilding. I have asked for more information regarding low-hanging fruit here. But this engine will need careful resurrection, if indeed that is possible short of complete overhaul. Maybe Mark up the line in Galt, or George in Oakland, or Jim Willette down in Lodi know someone very close to Modesto who could be bribed to go kick the tires for me. A bit far from home for Mark or George, Jim himself is not all that far, and would be supremely qualified. But poor Jim does not hear very well anymore, and I think it would be a rude imposition to consider his direct assistance. But, as I say, he might know someone who could use a paying job these days. Might not be the safest thing to do with one's time though considering the virus monster. If not for the pandemic, I would just drive on down. I am old and have a number of dangerous compromising health issues, so I must do as much as I can by remote control.

 

Yes, I would like to have this ol' thing at a fair price. I will do everything I can to avoid getting hosed on this car. I have never bought a car I couldn't drive, run through the gears, and bring to a controlled stop. Project poke pigs absolutely must have realistic prices. I want to thank you all for your help so far. I will be getting more information in the near future. But bore and bearing condition will be critical.

 

By the way, I do know the green 1924 phaeton which is the last picture in the CL ad. It was also in Hemmings for sale in Rhode Island at the same time as my '24 touring out of Eastern Ohio. So I went back over Thanksgiving and checked them both out. It is in original paint, so it might or might not "out point" mine in head to head HPOF. Remember, mine did take "Past Presidents Best Original - Early " at the 1994 CLC GN. This is no longer judged, as splitting into just two huge categories, "Early" and "Late" had to use an age based rolling handicap. This resulted in hurt feelings, as some degree of subjectivity had to be employed in judging. So now, many sub groups alleviate bruised egoes. Mine too, as I think my '27 sedan would have had incredibly tough competition at the 'Vegas GN in 2016. A  '38 16 and I were relieved to have been in separate classes. Whew ! Anyway, the green phaeton on Westinghouse air, could start, but scared me off due to decades of stagnation. I wanted a driver, and my decision was easy when I drove the Ohio touring. It was a turn-key car with unbroken maintenance. ZERO sludge, great bearings. It cost me $18,000 1989 dollars. Phaeton was asking $16,000. I ran into the phaeton again at the 2002 CLC Centennial GN in Detroit. Then out of Arizona, the owner confirmed that I had made the right choice. His was EXTREMELY sludged up. Said it was an absolute nightmare. Involved a fair amount of dismantling, and it was still not at tour car level. For him, showing in preservation classes was more important.

 

Oh, what more can I say ? Hmmmm, maybe for now, just to thank you again, and say "to be continued".    -   Carl 

 

P.S. A reliable source who is in the area and knows these cars well , told me that the blue '20 above was for sale just a few years back. Price devolved to 18 and did not sell. My source who is EXTREMELY connected and well-known in Northeast circles, thinks it eventually sold for 15.

Edited May 11, 2020 by C Carl
Add P.S. (see edit history)

[edinmass]

The blue car in the northeast ended up in a collection on the New York/Massachusetts border. Its parked and cared for with a bunch of Pierce Arrows and other great New York built cars. I believe the number you are quoting is in the area of what I was told also. V63 Caddys are just about the only series Cadillac I have never extensively driven. Back in the 60's and 70's we had a handful of them in New England and often would tour with them on the VMCCA tours. They just fell off the face of the earth for 40 years, and recently a few people have purchased a few of the cars I knew as a boy from very long term storage. I think they have always been the "least expensive" of the early Cadillacs........so when their owners took them off the road and parked them, there wasn't much to gain by selling them; so often they just kept them to keep themselves in the car game. Carl........you obviously drive your quite a bit. What's the "sweet spot" for going down the road without pushing or spinning the motor excessively? 

 

 

  

[Joe in Canada]

Long term storage can be devastating on an engine IF they ran only water for a coolant before parking it. I found that in my 12 having to sleeve all 4 cyl and replace the left upper outer wall of the block being as thin as paper.