Lesson learned POR 15

[kreed]

My radiator support bracket was looking a little rough on my 67 and it was suggested by a local paint guy  that I sand and use POR 15 gloss black . $64 /quart ! Did the sanding down to 800 grit and applied the POR and it looks like crap . Used a foam brush and didn't shake the paint but I am very disappointed  how it came out . Wore gloves and mask  - got a little in my fingers and that stuff DOES NOT come off . Anyway , going to resand and try a semigloss - suggestions ?.. 

KReed

ROA 14549 

[JFranklin]

Show us a photo to see what went wrong. Was the part cleaned thoroughly?

[auburnseeker]

Regardless of how your results turned out I would think you would want to go a little coarser on the paper especially with Por 15 which has a heqvy body and fills sand scratches.  I also think it only really works well over bare metal with or without rust and best over rust. 

I use Rustoleum quite often or sometimes Plasticote engine enamel often following it up with a clear before it cures to get maximum adhession of the clear. 

As JFranklin mentioned,  show us some photos. 

[KongaMan]

As noted, 800 grit is overkill.  At that level, you can start to see reflections in the bare metal.  Anything that relies on mechanical adhesion is going to have a hard time of it.  All you need to do is scuff it with a coarse ScotchBrite pad or the like.

 

And (IMHO) high gloss paint is never a good idea on the frame, under the hood, etc.  Satin is where it's at.

 

BTW, get a new paint guy.

[JZRIV]

POR 15 and it’s derivatives are best for unseen areas. Its made to go over rust and encapsulates  it such as floors and trunks or frames of non show vehicles. And yes one drop and it reproduces on hands very quickly and tough to get off. gloves are a must before even opening the can. 

Anywhere aesthetics come into play you’ll need to sand, grind and fill as necessary with normal topcoat.  No magic potions. 

Edited April 7, 2019 by JZRIV (see edit history)

[demon452]

Agree with all the statements above.  But you have to mix any type of paint before applying. The chemicals seperate. Try using a spray can without shaking and 1 with shaking. You can see the results.

[EmTee]

I consider POR-15 to be a 'rusty metal primer' of sorts.  As JZRIV said, it seals the area to prevent moisture penetration and further rust formation.  I would follow the POR with heavy primer or spot putty (depending upon amount of pitting), then prime and paint with semi-gloss black.

[RivNut]

Personally I think that Satin Black comes closer to the factory finish.

[60FlatTop]

I used to sell a lot of Bill Hirsch products. Their Miracle paint is similar to POR 15. Miracle Paint was Xylene based and I had the thinner to go with it. It is barn paint. There are even instructions for treating rotted fence posts with it.

Back in the early 1990's I complained about the finish look to Bill, himself. He told me it was a preservative and not supposed to be pretty. At the time I went to two part epoxy primer with a Valspar satin black polyurethane on my cars. I still use it today. Although I would use a polyurethane primer now.

 

I remember one customer who bought Hirsch paint from me, used it, and asked if I had anything to remove the POR 15 he had on other parts.

 

You can buy Valspar at ACE and Loews. Try a quart. The radiator brackets on my '60 Electra were done with it a few years back. Looks like they were never touched .

 

In the 1990's a lot of car chemical products were coming out of New Jersey. I figured they just cut off a pipe and drove it in the ground with a pump hooked to it. Whatever they pumped out they put in cans with various labels.

Bernie

[dr914]

POR 15 is definitely to seal rust, and not to be shown, it also needs to be top coated, NEVER use it where something will be seen, it is just too crude for that.

[kreed]

Spent three hours yesterday blasting /sanding my radiator support back to bare metal- Royal PIA ! Primed and ready to rattle can now . Unfortunately couldn't blast my fingers to get the crap off!  Lesson learned the hard way . Pics below show my mistake. Thanks for all the comments /advice .

KReec

ROA 14549

 

[Matt Harwood]

POR-15 makes a satin black top coat designed to work with the POR-15 base. There's a re-coat window you have to follow otherwise it won't adhere. It looks like that partly because it's shiny but also partly because the base metal seems fairly badly pitted--any paint would look like that. A satin finish will hide it a bit, but it won't look perfect no matter what you use. Stirring rather than shaking the paint also helps avoid air bubbles in the paint which can manifest in the final finish no matter how you apply it. Don't be angry at the paint for doing what it's supposed to do and I think they first thing they say in their ads and instructions is "don't get it on your hands, it doesn't come off!" The stuff's pretty good, but it is designed for specific applications, not as a finish coat in such a visible spot.

 

It isn't the paint's fault and it isn't your fault. It was just a mis-matching of expectations. POR-15 isn't magic, it's just a tough "paint" that is designed to seal rusty or pitted metal, not be a finish-grade topcoat (in fact, it turns a kind of ashy gray if exposed to direct sunlight). It's probably too shiny for your purposes and you really should be sure to mix any paint properly before application, no matter what you use. If you want that part to look perfect, hit it with a few coats of high build sandable primer, sand it between coats until all those pits are gone, and then topcoat with the paint of your choice. No paint will hide that without proper prep.

 

Good luck!

[KongaMan]

If you haven't picked your top coat yet, you might consider Rustoleum 7777 Satin Black.  You should be able to buy it at your local Home Depot, hardware store, etc.  It's what all the cool kids use.  

[Pat Curran]

I learned a lesson with POR-15 some years ago.  When it was time for lunch, I placed the brush across the top of the can.  I went in the house and ate my sandwich and came back to the paint 20 minutes later.  The brush was as hard as a rock!  Oh well, lesson learned!

[DualQuadDave]

Eastwood Chassis Black is very nice or for local stuff, there is Epoxy Chassis paint by VHT that is awesome. Comes in semi and gloss.

[RivNut]

1 hour ago, KongaMan said:

If you haven't picked your top coat yet, you might consider Rustoleum 7777 Satin Black.  You should be able to buy it at your local Home Depot, hardware store, etc.  It's what all the cool kids use.  

X2

[kreed]

1 hour ago, Matt Harwood said:

POR-15 makes a satin black top coat designed to work with the POR-15 base. There's a re-coat window you have to follow otherwise it won't adhere. It looks like that partly because it's shiny but also partly because the base metal seems fairly badly pitted--any paint would look like that. A satin finish will hide it a bit, but it won't look perfect no matter what you use. Stirring rather than shaking the paint also helps avoid air bubbles in the paint which can manifest in the final finish no matter how you apply it. Don't be angry at the paint for doing what it's supposed to do and I think they first thing they say in their ads and instructions is "don't get it on your hands, it doesn't come off!" The stuff's pretty good, but it is designed for specific applications, not as a finish coat in such a visible spot.

 

It isn't the paint's fault and it isn't your fault. It was just a mis-matching of expectations. POR-15 isn't magic, it's just a tough "paint" that is designed to seal rusty or pitted metal, not be a finish-grade topcoat (in fact, it turns a kind of ashy gray if exposed to direct sunlight). It's probably too shiny for your purposes and you really should be sure to mix any paint properly before application, no matter what you use. If you want that part to look perfect, hit it with a few coats of high build sandable primer, sand it between coats until all those pits are gone, and then topcoat with the paint of your choice. No paint will hide that without proper prep.

 

Good luck!

 Thanks Matt  - the piece actually  was not really pitted at all . The area where it looks so bad and appears as defects in the metal is just how the POR ended up which surprised me . Not blaming the paint but just my stupidity in even using it  on this particular part  at the advice of a paint guy. Next time I will ask the forum before I  do ANYTHING  like this - all very helpful comments . Had heard the problem with sunlight exposure and NOT to shake so I stirred it gently before application but still must have some bubbles to cause the surface effect . Anyway , it's gone now .  Will post a follow up pic assuming it's not something I am ashamed of 😃

KReed

ROA 14549

[JZRIV]

Ken,

Nothing to be ashamed of Ken. Only ones who don't make mistakes are those who don't do anything!  Even though its never happened to me...... LOL, well maybe a few times

[KongaMan]

If you don't make mistakes, you aren't trying hard enough.

[68RIVGS]

2 hours ago, JZRIV said:

Ken,

Nothing to be ashamed of Ken. Only ones who don't make mistakes are those who don't do anything!  Even though its never happened to me...... LOL, well maybe a few times

 

BTDT Jason, couldn't agree more !

[kreed]

You guys make me feel better. That $65 / quart still stings though!  Thanks 

KReed

ROA 14549!

[RivNut]

3 hours ago, KongaMan said:

If you don't make mistakes, you aren't trying hard enough.

I must be trying too hard.

[Turbinator]

8 hours ago, RivNut said:

I must be trying too hard.

Once I made a mistake thinking I made one.

[Roadmaster75]

Some years ago I was coating the frame of my 49 Willys-Overland Jeepster with POR-15.

 

I used a small sponge and latex gloves and went after the job in earnest.......

I had a formal black tie charity event that evening.

 

After completing the messy job I went to peel off the gloves and to my horror found that the fingers

had disintegrated and the POR-15 was already drying and hardening.

Solvents, abrasives, acetone, reducer only marginally effective on the parts still drying......

 

Sat on my hands all night ........ the label says “Only time will take it off”.  Boy are they right!

 

Took about two weeks to start coming off.

 

Beware!

 

[auburnseeker]

Gorilla Glue is the same way, so be careful if you have something to go to that involves not looking like you just finished playing in the garden in the not to distant future. 

[60FlatTop]

Some of that stuff is pretty tenacious. Try the old Navy Boilerman's trick of light oil with sugar mixed in.

 

[Turbinator]

Gents, the stuff really takes forever and a day to come off.

[60FlatTop]

The light oil and sugar should have done a better job than that.

 

Try alternating Xylene and the oil/sugar.

 

Loews or Ace Hardware should have it.

[Turbinator]

Bernie, Next time I use POR 15 I’ll wear the gloves. Bernie, thanks for the tip on Xylene.

 

Turbinator

[TampaRiv]

After 30+ years in the trades, I tell my guys:  "Everyone makes mistakes;  be the guy that fixes his, and nobody will know".

Edited April 26, 2019 by TampaRiv (see edit history)

[George Buick Riviera]

My experience with POR15:

 

a) no grease, humidity on the surface is a key - but this is general rule for all coats 😉. Don't use compressed air to "dry" the surface, unless you have the humidity and oil trapping system in your installation. Accordingly to POR15 manual (yes - read it first !), the surface must be completely dry, "or it will ruin your work" (especially when it is not flat surface). Best is to use the heat gun if possible (or hair dryer, or leave it for some time directly at the sunshine) - but don't coat it while still hot, of course  !

 

b) I get the best results when using really really small amount of the paint on the brush - so small that it was looking not possible to paint with it, but then: I was not dragging the brush there and back, but I was making many "touches" - one by one (not sure how to name it in english, but I think you got the point). First it was looking of course not good, but just leave it for some time, and POR15 starts to spread ....

 

c) the more paint you have on the brush, the worse result is - that is my experience

 

c) my result below (you can see my fingerprint close to the label, on the left)

 

 

Edited April 30, 2019 by George Buick Riviera (see edit history)

[Bill Stoneberg]

I have had good luck with POR 15 painting my engine. I did mind having blue hands though.

[60FlatTop]

Avoiding blue hands is not that hard.

 

This is Mike.

 

He did good work on the '64 Riviera engine.

[Turbinator]

On 4/30/2019 at 6:02 PM, George Buick Riviera said:

My experience with POR15:

 

a) no grease, humidity on the surface is a key - but this is general rule for all coats 😉. Don't use compressed air to "dry" the surface, unless you have the humidity and oil trapping system in your installation. Accordingly to POR15 manual (yes - read it first !), the surface must be completely dry, "or it will ruin your work" (especially when it is not flat surface). Best is to use the heat gun if possible (or hair dryer, or leave it for some time directly at the sunshine) - but don't coat it while still hot, of course  !

 

b) I get the best results when using really really small amount of the paint on the brush - so small that it was looking not possible to paint with it, but then: I was not dragging the brush there and back, but I was making many "touches" - one by one (not sure how to name it in english, but I think you got the point). First it was looking of course not good, but just leave it for some time, and POR15 starts to spread ....

 

c) the more paint you have on the brush, the worse result is - that is my experience

 

c) my result below (you can see my fingerprint close to the label, on the left)

 

 

Thank you for your input. Your experience will help me finish up the places I missed on my under carriage. So far the POR 15 is holding very well. I m under the car more times than I want to tell,

so I see the POR 15. Using smaller amounts on the brush, huh, you cannot use too little. I’ll give it a try 😊

[George Buick Riviera]

21 hours ago, Turbinator said:

Thank you for your input. Your experience will help me finish up the places I missed on my under carriage. So far the POR 15 is holding very well. I m under the car more times than I want to tell,

so I see the POR 15. Using smaller amounts on the brush, huh, you cannot use too little. I’ll give it a try 😊

 

Please let us know your result.

[Turbinator]

18 hours ago, George Buick Riviera said:

 

Please let us know your result.

George, I’ll be certain to take pics and show work in progress. The POR 15 for me is about preservation and not decoration. Although, the underside looks consistent with the black Top Coat.

Turbinator