A pet peeve - the hobby is dying and old cars are junk

[Bhigdog]

All true, Bernie, but to get to the original point, the hobby is fighting head winds and growth, if any, will be hard fought and not very likely in the long term...............Bob

[benjamin j]

Would the middle class being wiped out in the united states maybe have something to do with this expensive hobby dying off?   

[Bhigdog]

44 minutes ago, benjamin j said:

Would the middle class being wiped out in the united states maybe have something to do with this expensive hobby dying off?   

 

Any hobby and especially an expensive hobby is dependent on discretionary income. As the economy continues it's remarkable recovery it's likely  the "hobby" will  reflect that. But the overall head winds will remain long term and smooth out the minor ups and downs....................Bob

[60FlatTop]

Grimy wrote white wine, not white line.

 

I did think this was interesting: https://civilwartalk.com/threads/why-is-interest-in-the-civil-war-declining.136552/

 

And a wealthy middle class is significant. People who have cars for toys are wealthy. And some have a few.

 

Wealthy have been targeted as the "juicy tomato" to squeeze by recent administrations. It appears the wealthy are not the idle rich, but those who are not supported and fully dependent on a government subsidy. Collector car owners fall into that group.

 

You can spout Dylan Thomas til the cows come home, but that good night is coming. I won't see it end, but the few people around 30 years old who share our interest are going to have to adapt.

I actually closed the browser and got a little work done today, not on the cars, but a bit for the future gasps of the middle class.

Bernie

[trimacar]

4 hours ago, Grimy said:

A strong red, by all means--a young zin is ideal.  Save your white for armadillo roadkill...

Well, for some reason this keeps coming on my reply....OH, white WINE!

 

Interesting to read the Civil War thread, even they can't agree whether interest is really waning.  Of course, there's a lot of silly interest in monuments, but that's another story.

 

Let's see, the Civil War was over 150 years ago, and still a hot topic of conversation and tens of thousands of people fascinated with it.  Our oldest cars are around 118 years old, so does that mean we have at least 32 more years of antique car interest?

 

I think the market is the biggest indicator.  Right now, most good quality antique cars are as expensive as they've ever been, and some are going up in value dramatically.  When all car values fall to about 50% of what they are today, then I'll concede that the hobby is on hard times.  Even then, the cheapest Duesy will still be out of my price range.....

[Bhigdog]

27 minutes ago, trimacar said:

Well, for some reason this keeps coming on my reply....OH, white WINE!

 

Interesting to read the Civil War thread, even they can't agree whether interest is really waning.  Of course, there's a lot of silly interest in monuments, but that's another story.

 

Let's see, the Civil War was over 150 years ago, and still a hot topic of conversation and tens of thousands of people fascinated with it.  Our oldest cars are around 118 years old, so does that mean we have at least 32 more years of antique car interest?

 

I think the market is the biggest indicator.  Right now, most good quality antique cars are as expensive as they've ever been, and some are going up in value dramatically.  When all car values fall to about 50% of what they are today, then I'll concede that the hobby is on hard times.  Even then, the cheapest Duesy will still be out of my price range.....

 

Duesys and top quality classics are not the meat and potatoes of the hobby. For that matter neither is the prices paid for the top 1% cars. The metric to be watching is NUMBERS of old cars being put on the road and used or restored and shown. It's kind of meaningless to cite a certain car or class of cars commanding top dollars if there are only a few examples available   and only a few people interested and able to afford them...............Bob

Edited January 5, 2018 by Bhigdog (see edit history)

[trimacar]

Bob, I didn't cite a certain car or class of cars.  I stated that "most good quality antique cars are as expensive as they've ever been".  I think, in general, that's a true statement.  To your point, you can find isolated cases of certain models going down in value, but OVERALL, prices for GOOD cars are strong.  Prices for project cars are way down, unless a very desirable car.

 

My Duesy comment was just a sidebar, and has little to do with the main topic.

[R.White]

On this side of the Pond there is a determination by Government to steal a march on the rest of the world with the latest gimmick; be it electric cars, driverless cars, high speed rail, or whatever else they can latch on to as a divergence from the fact that we are all going to hell in a hand cart.  I can see a big problem looming with traditional I.C. engined cars.  We have seen a 17% drop in Diesel car sales last year and a rapidly growing interest in electric or hybrid cars.  There was a small rise in new petrol car sales but overall there was a 5% decline in new car sales.  What has all this got to do with the old car hobby?  Well, in the future, we will see more and more electric cars and the Government is spending vast sums of public money on the infrastructure; eventually there will be charging points everywhere and there is also huge investment going into battery and alternative energy technology.  The public are being brain washed into accepting a world where a polluting vehicle will be as socially unacceptable as smoking.  If you think it can't happen then just look at how attitudes have changed towards smoking since the ban came into effect.  Once the public, who generally are not interested in our old cars, decide we should not be pouting the air, the politicians will bring about an eventual ban on petrol just as they are planning to do with Diesel.  I am not saying the change will be over night but once it starts snowballing there will be no stopping it.  There will not be sufficient demand from us old car die hards to keep the refineries in business and we simply won't be able to get the fuel from a station within a reasonable distance or at a reasonable price.  Then it will disappear altogether to be replaced with electric "quick charge" points.

 

It's not all doom and gloom, however, as  I predict the sale of LPG will be our salvation  because it is seen as clean. In future there could be a thriving trade in D.I.Y. conversion kits.  I sincerely hope LPG will come to our rescue as it does not attract tax and it is only half the price of petrol.  I run my Range Rover on the stuff but you can convert a normally aspirated (carburettor) engine with a D.I.Y.kit.

.

 

Ray.

Edited January 6, 2018 by R.White (see edit history)

[Bhigdog]

2 hours ago, trimacar said:

Bob, I didn't cite a certain car or class of cars.  I stated that "most good quality antique cars are as expensive as they've ever been".  I think, in general, that's a true statement.  To your point, you can find isolated cases of certain models going down in value, but OVERALL, prices for GOOD cars are strong.  Prices for project cars are way down, unless a very desirable car.

 

My Duesy comment was just a sidebar, and has little to do with the main topic.

 

My point, Dave, is that the short term price up or down of any segment (good quality) is NOT a valid indicator of the over all or long term health of the hobby. It's very possible that the price of high end classics will remain strong but that does not reflect on the overall long term health of the hobby for the average guy.

If you follow the art market FANTASTIC prices are being paid at auction for a very select segment of artists and their art. But that does not mean the art market has a healthy mass market of participants. Far from it.

I see the same scenario for the old car hobby over the course of 50 to 100 years as the stock of collectables and collectors  dwindle through age and attrition.

Very desirable examples will be treasured  by a very few collectors. Sad but inevitable.

Remember,  I never said the old car hobby will cease to exist, only that it will contract and is not a growth industry.  Looking at the dynamics I feel safe in that prediction.

Please don't kill the messenger..........................Bob

 

 

Edited January 6, 2018 by Bhigdog (see edit history)

[John348]

1 hour ago, Bhigdog said:

 

My point, Dave, is that the short term price up or down of any segment (good quality) is NOT a valid indicator of the over all or long term health of the hobby. It's very possible that the price of high end classics will remain strong but that does not reflect on the overall long term health of the hobby for the average guy.

If you follow the art market FANTASTIC prices are being paid at auction for a very select segment of artists and their art. But that does not mean the art market has a healthy mass market of participants. Far from it.

I see the same scenario for the old car hobby over the course of 50 to 100 years as the stock of collectables and collectors  dwindle through age and attrition.

Very desirable examples will be treasured  by a very few collectors. Sad but inevitable.

Remember,  I never said the old car hobby will cease to exist, only that it will contract and is not a growth industry.  Looking at the dynamics I feel safe in that prediction.

Please don't kill the messenger..........................Bob

 

 

 

As I did three pages ago I have to agree with your observations

 

[Bhigdog]

Yeah, not much more to say. None of us will be here to see what really happens...................Bob

[1912Staver]

21 hours ago, R.White said:

On this side of the Pond there is a determination by Government to steal a march on the rest of the world with the latest gimmick; be it electric cars, driverless cars, high speed rail, or whatever else they can latch on to as a divergence from the fact that we are all going to hell in a hand cart.  I can see a big problem looming with traditional I.C. engined cars.  We have seen a 17% drop in Diesel car sales last year and a rapidly growing interest in electric or hybrid cars.  There was a small rise in new petrol car sales but overall there was a 5% decline in new car sales.  What has all this got to do with the old car hobby?  Well, in the future, we will see more and more electric cars and the Government is spending vast sums of public money on the infrastructure; eventually there will be charging points everywhere and there is also huge investment going into battery and alternative energy technology.  The public are being brain washed into accepting a world where a polluting vehicle will be as socially unacceptable as smoking.  If you think it can't happen then just look at how attitudes have changed towards smoking since the ban came into effect.  Once the public, who generally are not interested in our old cars, decide we should not be pouting the air, the politicians will bring about an eventual ban on petrol just as they are planning to do with Diesel.  I am not saying the change will be over night but once it starts snowballing there will be no stopping it.  There will not be sufficient demand from us old car die hards to keep the refineries in business and we simply won't be able to get the fuel from a station within a reasonable distance or at a reasonable price.  Then it will disappear altogether to be replaced with electric "quick charge" points.

 

It's not all doom and gloom, however, as  I predict the sale of LPG will be our salvation  because it is seen as clean. In future there could be a thriving trade in D.I.Y. conversion kits.  I sincerely hope LPG will come to our rescue as it does not attract tax and it is only half the price of petrol.  I run my Range Rover on the stuff but you can convert a normally aspirated (carburettor) engine with a D.I.Y.kit.

.

 

Ray.

Here in Canada much the same is happening. Large sums of tax money is being spent on recharging stations . Substantial Govt. incentive payments to purchasers of electric vehicles.  All for a so far tiny  number of electric vehicle sales.  Canada is a Cold place in winter. Battery power and vehicle range  plummets in cold weather.  No projected ban on Diesel yet , a good chunk of the Canadian public are driving Diesel trucks and SUV's.

 

Greg

[cahartley]

On 1/5/2018 at 4:21 PM, trimacar said:

I think the market is the biggest indicator.  Right now, most good quality antique cars are as expensive as they've ever been, and some are going up in value dramatically.  When all car values fall to about 50% of what they are today, then I'll concede that the hobby is on hard times.  Even then, the cheapest Duesy will still be out of my price range.....

 

There is a good reason why they are going up in value as millionaires are the fastest growing segment in the economic spectrum.

[padgett]

Coupla thoughts:

""50 year old vintage" car. She felt it was ""under powered , rickety, and unsafe" well my toy is 48 years old, has AC and better resembles "pushed out of shape and hard to steer".

also

" there was a time you could go to any parts store and get anything you needed" well not unless your parents were rich. For me it was "call around for the best price" because every parts house was different. And then there was Gratiot, Moon, Isky, Crane, Crower, and J C Whitney (east of the Mississippi, west it was Warshawsky). Today we have Amazon, Rock Auto, and a horde on eBay with Free Two Day Shipping.

 

Further could not find Jag and MG parts just anywhere, in PBC it was Gulfstream Motors or mail order (sent a check off and a few weeks later something would arrive). Recently I needed an OEM Bosch MAF for a 17 year old Merc. Ordered at 10pm and was on my doorstep at 2pm the next day. No extra charge.

 

These are the good old days.

 

[mrspeedyt]

 I am ready for the self driving car. I want to crawl in the backseat take a nap.

[SC38dls]

To my grandfather the “good old days” were the late 30’s to my dad they were the early 50’s. To me the mid to late 60’s. Every gereneration will have their own definition of that time of life. I think of them the way I remember my time in the army - 67 & 68 -  all the good and none of the bad. I’m sure future generations will say something like - “do you remember recharging taking a couple hours and we use too past the time doing......”

 

Have fun

Dave S 

[John348]

1 hour ago, SC38DLS said:

To my grandfather the “good old days” were the late 30’s to my dad they were the early 50’s. To me the mid to late 60’s. Every gereneration will have their own definition of that time of life. I think of them the way I remember my time in the army - 67 & 68 -  all the good and none of the bad. I’m sure future generations will say something like - “do you remember recharging taking a couple hours and we use too past the time doing......”

 

Have fun

Dave S 

 

Very true... remember pay phones?? One of my sons never used one, and not sure if had seen anyone ever using one that was not in a movie

[DAVE A]

On 1/6/2018 at 7:51 AM, Bhigdog said:

Yeah, not much more to say. None of us will be here to see what really happens...................Bob

Speak for yourself Bob, I'm planning to stick around a while....

[Bhigdog]

2 hours ago, DAVE A said:

Speak for yourself Bob, I'm planning to stick around a while....

 

You have one of them there DeLorean time machines, Dave?................

[DAVE A]

Making one out of a Crosley Supersports....only moves a few seconds.

[trimacar]

On ‎1‎/‎7‎/‎2018 at 11:08 PM, Bhigdog said:

 

You have one of them there DeLorean time machines, Dave?................

 

I think my garage is a time machine.  I go in to do a 30 minute task, and come out 8 hours later......

[Joe in Canada]

I keep seeing articles about doom and gloom for the old car hobby but is it really true. I have noticed a fair number of pre war car collections restored and unrestored  that are being auctioned off lately. I am talking pre war stuff that young men of the past gathering up cars 40, 50 and even 60 years ago and just putting them away. Some have plans of restoring where in reality it gets torn down nothing tagged then siting in the corner getting mixed with other cars in the worst scenario. Then his kids put the cars in an estate sale when he enters a retirement home or passes on.  Leaving old friends to help the family to sort things out best they can.  So what I am thinking if we do not have these hoarders / collector's today is this causing a flood in the smaller market of today? An over abundance of pre war cars coming in from one source rather than the guy with one car.  Here is a sample of a vintage car auction coming up this summer where his dreams originally were to have a car museum.      http://mackauctioncompany.com/18aug4.html

Edited January 10, 2018 by Joe in Canada (see edit history)

[1912Staver]

That's such a typical Canadian collection . An abundance of lower model 4 doors. Very few high line cars. Simple , modest cost transportation. Unfortunately not very desirable in todays market. Looks like a couple of potential gems . I will be keeping a close eye on the sale. Thanks for the link. Sask. in August will be an oven.

Greg

Edited January 10, 2018 by 1912Staver (see edit history)

[trimacar]

The 1911 Case and the Milburn electric look interesting.....auction in August, plenty of time to think about it!  They're obviously in no rush!

[detroitsoul]

An editorial is essentially one man's opinion.  Nothing more nothing less.  We can agree or disagree.  It is hardly a consensus.  I am poking fun at him and not you, fellow enthusiast.

I came to the appreciation of my pre-War classic on my own.  My parents were never really interested in cars but I learned later in life that my grandparents were.

The timeless beauty of the vehicle struck a chord in me and I decided to start restoring it.  I think the writer of said editorial has never heard the old adage, "Beauty is in the eye of the beholder."  My seven year old has expressed an appreciation of the styling of my car an others like it.  In my opinion, the timeless beauty of these vehicles will always captivate.

I have never driven anything older than an early nineties Chevy but I still look forward to driving my manual Zephyr with no power steering or antilock brakes.  I have had to the opportunity to be driven in many of the Model Ts at Greenfield Village.  I enjoyed it and I think it is safe to say my son did too.

Let the naysayers say nay.  We the true enthusiasts say, and will always say, "YES!"

[Dynaflash8]

On 1/3/2018 at 6:55 AM, trimacar said:

Received latest issue of Hemmings Motor News yesterday.  You know, the bible of the old car hobby, the source for cars and parts that we've used for years.  I first started subscribing in 1965, and never missed a year.

 

So, last month they ran an editorial that discussed, among other things, the death of the old car hobby, in regard to pre-war cars.  That's pre-World War II, for you young'uns.  Oh wait, there are no young people interested in those cars, according to some.

 

From the letters section, two things, both from same letter, and Sir, if you read this forum, no apologies, I think you're wrong:

 

1-"....all the old folks who owned or enjoyed the hobby of the 1910-1950 era cars are dying off or too old to enjoy them anymore, and want to sell them.  Who is going to buy these cars that are out there?"

 

Now, in the same issue, in the auction reports:

1910 Cadillac - sold, $104,500

1904 Premier - sold, $341,000

1909 Thomas - not sold, not meeting reserve, $580,000

1929 Packard 645 phaeton - sold, $319,000

1923 Pierce sedan - sold, $107,800

 

No one wants them?  Really?  It's not that NO ONE wants them, it's that SOME PEOPLE don't want them, and they thus assume NO ONE wants them.  Their thinking is "I don't like to eat broccoli, so I don't think anyone likes to eat broccoli".  This is flawed logic.  Sure, there are older guys collecting cars, but there are also younger guys coming along who have money and like the old cars.  Maybe not as many as it used to be, but it sure seems to be enough, otherwise prices on good cars would be dropping drastically.  I keep hearing gloom and doom, and "I'm going to wait a few years and buy those cars for pennies on the dollar", but it sure doesn't seem to be coming true.   The market segment that IS dropping in price/value is the project car area.  The cost of restoration these days is so high that projects just won't bring good money.

 

2:  ".....don't like how they [old cars] drive.  Try driving a 1930 Model A on a trip.  No seat belts, hard to start, drives like a truck, and you better know how to double clutch those old cars....not really fun to drive"

 

Seriously?  He states he "sold his Model A", well, sure, I would have sold a worn out, neglected, poor condition Model A too.  Instead of fixing the car, he assumes, as many do, that ALL Model A's, oh wait, let's include ALL pre war cars, are horrible driving vehicles.  Astounding.  The burgers down at my local diner are awful, thus all burgers everywhere must be awful.

 

You guys out there that get it, know how well nicely a maintained or nicely restored car early car drives.  You guys who don't get it, that's fine, just don't eat any burgers, cause if you did find and eat a good burger, then you'd have to change your mind.  Changing minds is very difficult these days.

 

My rant for the day.....

David,

I do worry about the hobby going downhill in the coming years, but not because longtime collectors are running out of time.  And, at 79, I don't think it'll happen in my lifetime.  You are so right when you say "just because your Model A has mechanical and comfort problems, not all of them have the same problem."  The last Model A is 87 years old!  So, it all depends on how the car was taken care of before restoration, how well the restoration was done, or if a full restoration was ever done and how long ago.  I just bought a new 2017 Buick LaCrosse.  It is a technological nightmare, but I'll eventually learn to live with it, but still cuss it daily.  I can honestly say these cars will be extinct in 87 years.  They are an electrical and technological nightmares.  I don't like it, but I needed some new transportation for the long haul traveling I do.  But, why is it this way, and what does that have to do with the subject at hand?  We live in a country now where vehicles are being built like I-phones to do what I-phones do, that I feel like we don't have to do.  Kids for the last 20 years have been brought up with new thrills other than cars like computers, electronic gadgets, cellphones, and a who myriad of electronically based gadgets.  In our time we couldn't wait to be 16 (15 in VA) to get a car with $100 of saved paper route money.  Now, newspapers are going broke, so less paper routes.  Instead, kids today live vicariously by computer higher education is drilled into them from a young age.  Many don't even want a car as teenagers and insurance is so high parents refuse to pay for it.  So, they never learn to love cars or learn mechanics.  I never learned mechanics so I can't speak to that.  Therefore the hobby is very expensive for people like me (and most of the younger techie people of today).  Labor is $75-100+ per hour and people have jacked parts prices to the sky (those will come down over time).  But, I haven't given up.  I'm restoring a '41 Buick right now, not for show, but for touring.  It will be a five-foot driver.  I was attracted to all of the design features and changes of the pre-war and early post-war cars.  Look at car design today.  They all look like blobs and they all look the same.  So Government regulations, electronics, insurance and licensing costs have driven car enthusiasm away from kids from early age through high school.  As a result few have learned that love from an early age.  Now we get to the street rod craze.  Since the 60's our population has moved farther on into "easy-living".  People have learned to appreciate all the creature comforts of power steering, automatic transmissions, power brakes (now even those aren't good enough, so they convert 60's cars to disk brakes), AM-FM radios, radial tires, on and on.  So older guys now get a beautiful pre-war car, tear it apart, drop the front end for rack & pinion steering, install a big V-8 engine (almost always a 350 Chevrolet), and personalize the car (as in ruin it) and of course change the wheels.  It is no longer an antique car.  All of this so they can run Interstate roads at 80 mph.  Cruise-in type shows have now taken over much of the hobby, leaving the rest of us no place to take our cars.  Even many of the one-car clubs have brought in a "modified class".  Last, people became used to old cars being "investments" where they are more interested in making profit than in enjoyment.  In a couple of years my 2017 Buick will be worth 10% of what I paid for it, but I needed it.  Old cars should be looked at the same way, instead of having it for need, let's start having it for enjoyment and accepting any loss in money for that reason.  Or, you can just sit in the house and watch cable news day and night on your TV.  You'll maybe only lose money on your financial investments.  It's not that the hobby is dying, what is dying over the long haul future is the hobby as we have have known it.  AACA is the last bastion of the hobby as we have known it.  They have specific tours that make it possible for cars of like vintage, owned by collectors of a like interest, to get together and enjoy driving those cars and share camaraderie together.  There is the Reliability Tour for vehicles pre-1917, the Vintage Tour for vehicles pre-1932, the Sentimental Tour for vehicles 1928-1958 and the Founders Tour for vehicles 1932-25 years old.  On that one, 90% of the cars are 1960s and up which proves one of my points above.  Of course the Classic Glidden Tour is shared every other year by the VMCCA and the AACA and it covers vehicles 1942 and earlier.  So, AACA is the club to be in if you love original old cars.  AACA is the oldest and largest club in the World.  When AACA goes down that's when the hobby will go down and that's a long, long time coming.  That's my opinion and I'm sticking to it.  Just saying.....

Edited January 27, 2018 by Dynaflash8 (see edit history)

[keithb7]

I’m 46. The cars I owned in my teens were in pretty bad original shape. I have no desire to restore my first, 1973 Ford Pinto. Lol. 

 

Now that my sons are older and in university, I finally had time to start looking at old cars. I was not sure what I wanted. My younger son, 18 at the time was very excited. He’s the car nut of my sons.  I started looking around at old cars, not sure what I wanted. 

 

It turns out we fell in love with a lower end 1953 4 door Chrysler family car. The gobs of chrome and round body lines won us over. The price was right and the car was in very good condition. I bought it. 

 

I had no earlier connection to a ‘53 Chrysler. My son and I are making our own memories with it. I let him drive it to school a few times during his last senior year. He respects the car and treats it very well. He takes his best girl for dates in it. We jockey for turns driving it. My son said, “Dad this car is the best thing you’ve ever bought.” I’m not sure about that but at 18 he was now fully engaged in old cars. That makes me smile. 

 

I joined the local vintage car club. Yes, probably 95% of the members are retired. I am really enjoying the people. The club recently took on a 1928 Dodge Brothers project car. I have been volunteering my time and labor to help restore it. I have developed a new respect for pre-war cars. Its been a great experience. 

 

I asked my son if he’s interested in driving my 53 Chrysler in this year’s Easter parade. He jumped at the opportunity. Said he wouldn’t  miss it for the world. I’ll drive another old car that belongs to the club. I will be behind him but I’m sure I’ll still see the glow on his face. 

 

The vintage and classic car scene is adjusting I guess. The baby-boomers are near the end of their market swing. The world will always appreciate seeing an old unique car being driven. No matter what it is. My big old average 4 door family car draws plenty of attention whenever we drive it. Kids and Grandpas alike approach to talk and learn about the car. I laugh a little inside. Its nothing special. Its just unique.

 

I likely won’t spend $30,000 restoring it. Nor expect it to grow much if any, in value. 

I can see how a person spending big bucks to restore a collector car may be concerned though. That’s a totally different car for a different market.

 

My Son and I are maybe examples of next generation owners and enthusiasts of old cars.  There are others like us no doubt. Certainly less it seems. Not many young’uns today are fixing their cars. Shop class is all gone from the high schools around here. I’m doing my best to pass along my skills to my boys. I would be embarrassed if they could not change their oil. They can and do. Few if any of their friends do it. 

Edited January 27, 2018 by keithb7 (see edit history)

[trimacar]

4 hours ago, Dynaflash8 said:

In a couple of years my 2017 Buick will be worth 10% of what I paid for it, but I needed it.  Old cars should be looked at the same way, instead of having it for need, let's start having it for enjoyment and accepting any loss in money for that reason. 

I agree with all you're saying, and particularly with the statement above.

 

Some people have no problem paying 50K or more for a car or a truck, which will depreciate 10% just driving it off the lot, and 5 to 10% every year thereafter.  But, they buy an old car for 15K, and howl when they find out they can only get 14K when they go to sell it.

 

A lot of the electronics on cars these days is there just because the technology is there.  I saw this in industry daily, instead of an "on - off" button, there had to be a computer screen and an interface and a PLC (programmable logic controller) and sensors and eyes and so forth....and, oh, there were times when you would have paid for that on-off button.  We had a technician who programmed conveyor lines for us at a plant in North Carolina.  He was marginal, he'd been warned, and finally one afternoon he was fired.  Next day, we started up the conveyor system, everything was fine, except precisely two hours later everything shut down.  He'd left a "bomb" in the program, when it was turned on a timer started, and if he didn't flag one particular eye in a certain sequence, then two hours later everything turned off.  Man, that's progress.

 

Do you really need the car to tell you it's low on gas, or a tire is low, or the rear door is ajar?  No, we did without that for decades, and instead used a (now rare) device called "thinking" to know when there was an issue. The interesting thing is that "thinking" is relatively inexpensive to maintain, while technology is not.

 

My wife's Envoy has the tire pressure monitor system.  One of the monitors has gone bad, the screen says the left front.  So, I have to take it to the mechanic, he's going to charge $80 diagnostic fee to figure out which sensor is bad (but wait, isn't the technology TELLING me that?), then another $8- to $100 to demount the tire and put a new sensor in.  Almost $200 to fix a system I could replace with just walking around the car to see if a tire is low.  But wait, this system will tell you if it's flat...ummmm, I KNOW when the darn thing is flat.

[R.White]

Does anyone know what started the old car hobby in the U.S.A.?  

 

Here in Blighty,  the London to Brighton Veteran Car Run is held annually to mark the "emancipation Run" of 14th November 1896. This Act of Parliament celebrated the passing into law the" Locomotives on Highway  Act " which raised the speed limit for "light locomotives" from 4 m.p.h. to 14 m.p.h..   Although the Locomotives Act was widely known as the "red flag Act.",  the need for cars to be preceded by a man on foot carrying a red flag had actually been abolished in 1878,   nevertheless,  a red flag was symbolically destroyed, just as it is today, before the start of the 'Run' from Hyde Park .  Since then there have always been a devoted following of historic vehicles but it was a movie that changed the once elitist hobby into a popular pursuit.

 

In 1953, the British comedy film 'Genevieve' (produced and directed by Henry Cornelius and written by Timothy Rose) - loosely based on the London to Brighton Run - immediately captured the public imagination and effectively kick started the British love affair with old cars.

 

Ray.

 

 

Edited January 27, 2018 by R.White (see edit history)

[Bloo]

7 minutes ago, R.White said:

Does anyone know what started the old car hobby in the U.S.A.?  

 

It is almost like it has been there forever, or as long as there have been old cars. The HCCA began in 1937, the AACA in 1935!

Edited January 27, 2018 by Bloo (see edit history)

[R.White]

6 minutes ago, Bloo said:

 

It is almost like it has been there forever, or as long as there have been old cars. The HCCA began in 1937!

 

The Veteran Car Club of Great Britain was founded in 1930.

 

  (The Royal Automobile Club was established in 1897 but was not then interested in old cars as they were current at the time!)

Edited January 27, 2018 by R.White (see edit history)

[John_S_in_Penna]

1 hour ago, keithb7 said:

My younger son, 18 at the time was very excited....

we fell in love with a lower end 1953 4 door Chrysler family car.

My son said, “Dad this car is the best thing you’ve ever bought.”

 

That's great to hear, Keith!

 

Like you, I appreciate the underrated and overlooked cars,

because they're parts of history.  And when certain models aren't

as popular, you can get a nice car for a very reasonable price.

Your family will have many memories with your old car.

 

This is a great hobby.  Who knows what the future will bring?

But I know it will bring a lifetime of enjoyment.

Edited January 27, 2018 by John_S_in_Penna (see edit history)

[SC38dls]

When I pull in for gas or a quick store run people ask me why I’m driving that old car sometimes they even say I’m nuts for using it, it should be preserved in a garage and not ruined by driving it. My response is “What fun would that be. This car is 80 years old, I’m 72 and I’m sure it is going to outlast me”. I want those lifetime of memories for me, my family and a lot of people that get a big smile when they see the car going down the road. Have fun 

Dave S 

[padgett]

That was a line in the Gumball Rally except the Merc outlasted his wife. OTOH I recall Henry Manny bemoaning that is Cobra was too valuable to drive (my 63 FI Split Window cost me $1k when I came back from SEA but had to build a new 327 after my first driver's school and replace the Holley with an original wide plenium FI ($50)).

 

Have had a few 4-doors, mostly tow cars. Current one has a DOHC 6, 5-speed, front and rear independent suspension, front and rear sway bars, & 4 wheel disks. Has never been any reason to have boring cars. Even in the '80s.

 

Are some great cars available today, many ever over 25.

[Dynaflash8]

5 hours ago, keithb7 said:

I asked my son if he’s interested in driving my 53 Chrysler in this year’s Easter parade. He jumped at the opportunity. Said he wouldn’t  miss it for the world. I’ll drive another old car that belongs to the club. I will be behind him but I’m sure I’ll still see the glow on his face. 

 

The vintage and classic car scene is adjusting I guess. The baby-boomers are near the end of their market swing. The world will always appreciate seeing an old unique car being driven. No matter what it is. My big old average 4 door family car draws plenty of attention whenever we drive it. Kids and Grandpas alike approach to talk and learn about the car. I laugh a little inside. Its nothing special. Its just unique.

Guess I'm learning how to quote only a portion of a message.  I should have done that this morning.  In any case, you and your son are among my heros.  I only hope  your son is able to keep up the interest after a wife comes along or a job after college.  My daughter lost interest after she got out on her own and money got tight, even for traveling.  I've seen that happen to others.  But for now you two have a great bond in old cars.  I only wish my father hadn't constantly told me I'd never amount to anything as long as I "messed" with "those old junk cars".  Well, he's gone now, I never won him over until I sold a '41 Buick Limited for enough to pay off a house.  He said I found somebody out there crazier than I was. He never was right either, because I still amounted to quite a bit.  Keep up the faith Keith!  We need a lot more like you.

Edited January 27, 2018 by Dynaflash8 (see edit history)

[Dynaflash8]

4 hours ago, R.White said:

Does anyone know what started the old car hobby in the U.S.A.?  

Two guys in Philadelphia, PA met each other in their antique cars and became friends.  They decided to start a club and found ten other guys in and around Philadelphia, PA who also liked old cars.  In November, 1935 these twelve guys got together and formed the Antique Automobile Club of America (AACA).  I found the club in 1959 when I happened onto a little car show at Jim McKay Chevrolet in Fairfax, VA.  I was driving a well worn 1939 Buick Special sedan which didn't quite fit in, but the people were nice.  However, I didn't know how to join until 1962 because at the time prospects needed a member sponsor, something long since gone.  I've been a member ever since and its been the best experience of my life.  In 1976 I became a Life Member, except for my wife of 59 years and family.

Edited January 27, 2018 by Dynaflash8 (see edit history)

[R.White]

Wasn't Henry Ford keen on saving old cars?  I remember watching something about his museum? I understand  he took an interest in a wide range of mechanical things?

[Dynaflash8]

3 minutes ago, R.White said:

Wasn't Henry Ford keen on saving old cars?  I remember watching something about his museum? I understand  he took an interest in a wide range of mechanical things?

Come to America and visit his museum complex in Dearborn, Michigan.  You will be utterly astounded.  That said, he had nothing to do with the beginning of the antique automobile hobby other than making some of the cars as far as I know.

3 minutes ago, R.White said:

Wasn't Henry Ford keen on saving old cars?  I remember watching something about his museum? I understand  he took an interest in a wide range of mechanical things?

 

[capngrog]

4 hours ago, trimacar said:

 

My wife's Envoy has the tire pressure monitor system.  One of the monitors has gone bad, the screen says the left front.  So, I have to take it to the mechanic, he's going to charge $80 diagnostic fee to figure out which sensor is bad (but wait, isn't the technology TELLING me that?), then another $8- to $100 to demount the tire and put a new sensor in.  Almost $200 to fix a system I could replace with just walking around the car to see if a tire is low.  But wait, this system will tell you if it's flat...ummmm, I KNOW when the darn thing is flat.

 

I had a similar experience when I started shopping for new tires for my '09 Ford Explorer, which has a tire pressure monitoring system.  I contacted most of the large chain tire stores, and they all quoted somewhere around $75.00 additional per tire, because the tire pressure monitor sensor had to be reprogrammed (or some similar such explanation).  I wound up purchasing tires from a local tire dealer in Umatilla, Florida who nearly matched the price of the larger chain stores, but charged zero, nada, zip extra because of the tire pressure monitoring technology.  When I asked the shop owner about it, he just shrugged his shoulders and said that there's not any extra labor involved unless one of his employees managed to break off a valve stem. 

 

A friend of mine just had the tire pressure monitoring system pressure sensors replaced in his late model Chevrolet pickup truck.  He checked with several of the national tire chains, and they all quoted him a price of around $200.00 per tire/wheel.  This was $100..00 for each new sensor and $100.00 labor to replace each sensor.  I referred my friend to my local tire store who told him to buy the sensors at the local O'Reilly's and that the installation charge would be $10.00 labor for each tire/wheel.  That is what my friend did, and his tire pressure warning system has been working fine ever since.

 

A couple of weeks ago, I got a tire pressure warning on my Explorer.  About 90 seconds of Intense labor with a mechanical tire pressure gauge allowed me to "diagnose" which tire had low pressure.  I drove to the afore-mentioned local tire shop, and the leak was fixed in about 10 minutes (including waiting).

 

From what Trimacar and others have said, I sense bit of a ripoff in the retail tire store industry when it comes to tire pressure monitoring systems.

 

Cheers,'Grog

[R.White]

I run a 2000 Range Rover P38 which recently refused to start.  The problem was the air suspension compressor had failed and caused a 40 amp fuse to blow.  The problem was that the fuse was shared with the starter motor solenoid so the car wouldn't start.  Who thought it was a good idea to link the two systems?