A pet peeve - the hobby is dying and old cars are junk

[Rogerrabbit]

9 hours ago, MCHinson said:

People have been predicting the demise of the hobby for well over 50 years. I have been actively involved in it for less than half of that time. I wanted an antique car when I was in my 20's but it took me another 10 years of so before I was able to buy my first antique car. I chose my dream car when I was in my early 20's and it took me about 30 years before I was able to actually buy that car. I am now restoring an almost identical car just because I want to do a total restoration myself one time in my life. I am doing almost all of the work myself. It will be restored as well as I can restore it, and then I will plan to drive it.

 

I currently have one antique car to drive and one to work on. I am having fun. I also have two children who have both been active in the hobby. They are less active now than I suspect they will be when they get older. When they were young, they participated in club activities with me. As young adults, school and work take a larger percentage of their time. It is really easier to be actively involved in the hobby after you are old enough to own your own home and have been around long enough to have a bit more disposable income. If all goes as planned, they will both inherit an antique car. 

 

I agree, the hobby like the economy goes up and down depending on how much free money is out there.  I have 4 kids ranging from 21-27 and all 4 (3 of them girls) enjoy the hobby, each have a antique car of there own.

[alsancle]

My dad was born in 1925 and his first car was a 1936 Ford.  In fact it was the first car in his family.   About 30 years ago he got nostalgic for the car of his youth and bought a 35 Phaeton.  Restored it to perfection.  Pulled it out of the garage for the first time with a big smile,  went out the driveway, around the block,  came back and got out of the car.   He was a little quiet and staring at the Ford.   I asked him what was the matter?    He said "Well, that wasn't anywhere near as nice as I remember it".   Never drove the car again, and pretty shortly there after traded it towards a 36 Packard Phaeton.

[JACK M]

5 hours ago, trimacar said:

 

 

 The best explanation I've heard of today's issues with kids, when we grew up in the 50's and 60's, the kids had to make the parents happy, now it seems the parents have to make the kids happy, and the latter leads to all sorts of problems.

 

I am afraid the partents these days are afraid that their kids wont like them. Therefore there is not much disciplining.

I was a pretty strict parent and now my all grown kids are thanking me for teaching them right.

You could get arrested for spanking your kids these days, Whats that about?

[60FlatTop]

I rarely read periodicals written to the car hobby outside of club magazines. I read contributions to this forum just about every day, sometimes when I should be doing something else. There are a lot of personalities writing to the forum, all with the common, deep interest in old cars. There is a spectrum of attitudes and opinions that just makes it good reading. And it all comes from the heart, as do our club publications.

 

Journalists, to use a general term for "pay to write" authors might not always carry the same passions when a bag of groceries or the heat and electric bill is in the balance. And, for the last 4,000 years or so, stories about bad stuff have been the best sellers. Since my children were old enough to be exposed to the media, I have warned them that, above all, authors need groceries and they will do what it takes to get them. We live in a world where far too many people sit on the edge of their seats, listening for the next expert's conclusion rather than living and gather the facts to make their own. It is not just cars, this vicarious appetite is everywhere. I resist it, quite irreverently, most of the time.

 

Take the paid author with a gain of salt. Read the Forum and experience all you can on your own. You will be farther ahead for it.

Bernie

[1937hd45]

7 hours ago, alsancle said:

My dad was born in 1925 and his first car was a 1936 Ford.  In fact it was the first car in his family.   About 30 years ago he got nostalgic for the car of his youth and bought a 35 Phaeton.  Restored it to perfection.  Pulled it out of the garage for the first time with a big smile,  went out the driveway, around the block,  came back and got out of the car.   He was a little quiet and staring at the Ford.   I asked him what was the matter?    He said "Well, that wasn't anywhere near as nice as I remember it".   Never drove the car again, and pretty shortly there after traded it towards a 36 Packard Phaeton.

It would be interesting to know how many other full restorations are viewed like that after the first ride. Deep down inside that could be part of the reason I never finish a project. I did have a fellow return two years after I sold him an unfinished restoration, looked great, he offered me a chance to drive it around the block. What a relief to know hadn't invested the time or money to finish it myself. Bob 

[1912Staver]

Where you live can be an obstacle for young people.  A house with a garage is a near must for a hobby car. Depending on the area a house might not be within many family budgets. In many parts of Canada and certain locations in the U.S. a single family home is an impossible dream for the majority of younger people. Pretty difficult to swing a hobby car in an apartment or condo.

 

Greg in Canada

[RansomEli]

Grimy, 

 

 I saw your Pierce Arrow at the Blackhawk Cars & Coffee last year. I worked a temporary computer consulting job in the Bay area fro 6 months last year. One Sunday I decided to go to the Blackhawk Car Museum for Cars & Coffee. Was not impressed with most of the cars, but yours really stood out. It was parked near the front and you were idling the engine for the audience. A beautiful car that was easily "best of show".

 

Lots of Porsches, several Ferraris (whose owners knew nothing mechanical about their cars), and a bunch of decent stuff. Nothing brass or antique - except you. 

 

Thanks for showing it. 

[cahartley]

On 1/3/2018 at 11:22 AM, Steve_Mack_CT said:

It's fun sometimes to see the reaction when I ask about or compliment the guy who shows up in what one might consider a marginal car.  And it doesn't cost a dime to do...

 

Agreed! If I like something regardless as to how "good" it is I tell them. If I don't I keep my mouth shut and move on.

Car snobs have done more damage to the hobby than any amount of "lowly" or poorly done over cars....... 

 

 

[MochetVelo]

How much longer will gasoline be in general use? Will that determine the real end of the (internal combustion) antique car hobby?

 

Phil

[chistech]

When I was 16, my dad bought a 23" T depot hack to advertise for our family business.  That put the bug in me and I've always liked the cars from the 30's and have had a soft spot for a 5w coupe. I always thought that someday I'd own a Model A rumble seat coupe. Like any young man, providing for my family, hone, and any other normal life occurrence came first. I forgot about the antique cars but anytime I saw one, I'd look in admiration. 14 years ago, I bought at 85 military blazer to  use for my job.  A couple years later, while putting thousands of miles on that blazer, I bought a extremely low mileage military blazer with the intention to make it a work truck. It sat in the garage for 8yrs or so then it ended up being my first rotisserie restoration and that got my juices flowing. I then purchased a 31' chevy special sedan basket case which I nut and bolt restored in 13 months while working my full time job. Now, I'm on my dream car (almost). A 32' Oldsmobile Roadster.  I have also started restoring early 30's cars for customers as a hobby business. When I go to shows with my 31' Chevy, I constantly get told I'm too young to be driving and restoring cars of that vintage as most my age are hotrod guys. I'm 56 and they're telling me this. What I have noticed in our hobby and I actually think that while to most it seems like a bad thing, it will end up being a good thing, is the prices on the earlier cars have dropped considerably. I'm seeing younger owners of older cars showing up these past couple years because I believe those who want to get into the hobby can't afford the muscle cars or foreign models they might want so are finding a cheaper alternative to get started. It seems like it's starting to make a new sort of club for these younger guys. They say everything moves in circles and possibly it's circling around again to a resurgence. Only time will tell.

[alsancle]

1 hour ago, MochetVelo said:

How much longer will gasoline be in general use? Will that determine the real end of the (internal combustion) antique car hobby?

 

Phil

 

As long as there is a demand you will be able to buy gasoline.  It will be more expensive and not available on every corner but you will still be able to get it.   What that means is the top 20% of the hobby will continue along no real problem, the next 30% will be limited and the last 50% will just look at their cars.

[Grimy]

4 hours ago, RansomEli said:

 I saw your Pierce Arrow at the Blackhawk Cars & Coffee last year.

(Had a semi-long answer almost done, then I fat-fingered it into apparent oblivion, but if it later shows up you'll know why.)

 

RansomEli, I wish you'd come up and knocked on my forehead at Blackhawk.  Please PM me if you'll be coming back to the Bay Area for any reason.  Thanks for the very kind words!  That was probably the 1918 Pierce, which I often idle so people can watch the external lifters go up and down and marvel at a 200 rpm idle speed.  Always glad to meet forum members:  Neil Morse, mostly on the Buick forums, was over here yesterday for several hours in his 1941 Super and got the 50-cent tour.  I really enjoyed meeting him, discussing old iron, and finding that we had several mutual friends--unfortunately, most of them are deceased.

 

The First Sunday Cars & Coffee was steady at about 750 cars of all kinds, then increased to an over-capacity 1200 beginning last May or so, and ended Oct 1.  The newbies' loutish behavior antagonized the Danville PD and the other tenants in the upscale shopping center, so the event is dark until March 4, but we'll be away.  The frequency following March 4 hasn't been announced.

 

Our position at the front was courtesy of the Blackhawk docents who control parking, and who let "special cars" (their call) into what I call the High Rent Parking Area generally set aside for clubs but also grabbed by locals who show up at 0600.  I have a 25-mile run to/from the event and sometimes get stuck in the West 40 among the current-issue Mustang and Camaro clubs, but I have a good time anywhere I wind up.  There ARE some interesting 1920s-30s-40s cars each time, but we have to look for them. 

 

New Year's Day 2017 (a year ago already) we showed up in the 1918 with me wearing a 1920s full length horsehair coat (weighs at least 15 lbs) and Stetson, suitable for the 40*F weather.  Lots of photos taken that day!  I try to publicize the Pierce-Arrow marque, and usually have a sheet of specs on the individual car taped to the runningboard.

 

As they say in the South, hurry back!

Edited January 5, 2018 by Grimy
added photo of the car & horsehair coat (see edit history)

[edinmass]

Great photo Uncle George! (Grimy) George is too bashful to admit he got the horsehair coat because he ran the horse over with the 18 Pierce. And, like so many other Pierce owners who are shallow we say, tight with a buck (cheap), he also wouldn’t admit that he actually ate the horse! To be fair, even back in the day when the car was new, the original owner would probably have done the same thing. I think George’s only regret about the entire incident is the horse was thirty five years old when he was struck down, thus he was a little bit hard to chew. 

 

?

Edited January 5, 2018 by edinmass (see edit history)

[Grimy]

Fast Eddie, what chemicals have you ingested tonight?  After buying that Pierce two years ago (I've put 3,000 miles on it in that time) after lusting after that particular car since 1998, all I can afford is horsemeat in the form of dog food.  But it's more than worth it!

[trimacar]

10 hours ago, chistech said:

What I have noticed in our hobby and I actually think that while to most it seems like a bad thing, it will end up being a good thing, is the prices on the earlier cars have dropped considerably

 

When you say "earlier cars", I'm going to assume you mean the period from 1916 to 1925, more or less.  The cars in this time period have always been in a gray zone, too old for Horseless Carriage meets, too young (until recently) for Full Classic status, and in many cases really not as tour friendly to keep up with 1930 and later cars.

 

Cars of that gray period have always had a somewhat softer market.  I do not see other segments of the old car market dropping in price, except for project cars.

 

I do NOT see prices going down at this time on pre-1916 cars.  There is a large following of these, from a very active Model T group to the guys who tour the big boys.  Even projects of these years seem to sell quickly, unlike later project cars which won't bring much money at all. Any decent horseless carriage is going to be five figures, higher horsepower ones will be mid five figures and up, and great ones will be six figures.  The trend seems to be up, not down.

 

Good cars of the 30's still bring good money.  Sure, Model A's bring about the same they did 20 years ago, but most other cars of the time have a healthy market.  A well sorted car of the 30's is bringing more money than ever.

 

I think a lot of the perception of "the market is going down" comes from the no sale, or non-interest, in cars that need a LOT of work.  There are very few cars, percentagewise, of the project cars available, that make any economic sense to restore.  I know this isn't, nor should be, a consideration in some cases, but unfortunately we've seen the old car hobby go from "I'll spend what it costs because I love it and it's a hobby" to "No way I'm spending more than what the car is worth when finished".  As the cost of labor, parts, and services have risen, the project cars get doomed to little or no value.

 

I also think that's why a lot of people are sour grapes on old cars and prices, and are saying "no one wants them anymore".  As discussed earlier, they have a ratty car in their garage that they've told everyone is their retirement account, now the time to sell comes, and no one will pay much of anything for a ratty car needing everything.  They then transfer that isolated case to the "no one wants...." statement.

Edited January 5, 2018 by trimacar (see edit history)

[trimacar]

10 hours ago, chistech said:

What I have noticed in our hobby and I actually think that while to most it seems like a bad thing, it will end up being a good thing, is the prices on the earlier cars have dropped considerably

 

When you say "earlier cars", I'm going to assume you mean the period from 1916 to 1925, more or less.  The cars in this time period have always been in a gray zone, to old for Horseless Carriage meets, to young (until recently) for Full Classic status, and in many cases really not as tour friendly to keep up with 1930 and later cars.

 

Cars of that gray period have always had a somewhat softer market.  I do not see other segments of the old car market dropping in price, except for project cars.

 

I do NOT see prices going down at this time on pre-1916 cars.  There is a large following of these, from a very active Model T group to the guys who tour the big boys.  Even projects of these years seem to sell quickly, unlike later project cars which won't bring much money at all. Any decent horseless carriage is going to be five figures, higher horsepower ones will be mid five figures and up, and great ones will be six figures.  The trend seems to be up, not down.

 

Good cars of the 30's still bring good money.  Sure, Model A's bring about the same they did 20 years ago, but most other cars of the time have a healthy market.  A well sorted car of the 30's is bringing more money than ever.

 

I think a lot of the perception of "the market is going down" comes from the sale, or non-interest, in cars that need a LOT of work.  There are very few cars, percentagewise, of the project cars available, that make any economic sense to restore.  I know this isn't, nor should be, a consideration in some cases, but unfortunately we've seen the old car hobby go from "I'll spend what it costs because I love it and it's a hobby" to "No way I'm spending more than what the car is worth when finished".  As the cost of labor, parts, and services have risen, the project cars get doomed to little or no value.

 

I also think that's why a lot of people are sour grapes on old cars and prices, and are saying "no one wants them anymore".  As discussed earlier, they have a ratty car in their garage that they've told everyone is their retirement account, now the time to sell comes, and no one will pay much of anything for a ratty car needing everything.  They then transfer that isolated case to the "no one wants...." statement.

[edinmass]

Low end, middle of the road, and the 30-45 horse power cars are soft. They sell on PRICE. 45-90 HP cars bring steady and predictable money adjusted for their history, great high horsepower cars with a verified history from new are still very expensive, and going up. Interestingly I think the HCCA Ford T's will still do very well, as they fit almost every budget, the T tours are fun and family friendly, and importantly, you can tow a T with a very small truck, that makes the touring much easier on the wallet. AND you can order any part you need and have it overnight. 

 

 

 

[cxgvd]

I agree and have noticed mid sized cars are in the minority probably because of the reasons sighted.  Parts are easily accessible for Fords, great comfort in the large cars but the mid sized, parts are an issue and they are not much larger than a Ford, so why get one.  I drive a Buick and like it, the Buick is a good car.  On a recent 800 mile tour with 22 cars there were 6 Locomobiles and just 2 Buicks, a White and many Fords.  I acquired my Buick because I wanted more car than a Ford and it was really just a bit more expensive.

Regards, Gary

[Restorer32]

I have always maintained that there is little interest in cars 1916-26 or so partly (mostly?) because there has never been a national club devoted to them exclusively. I love the Horseless Carriage Gazette for example. If there were a similar publication focusing on '16-'26 cars wouldn't it be interesting? Certainly no lack of material to write about given the diversity of cars built during that period.  Not sure what you would call such a club. Horseless Carriage is self explanatory as is Classic Car. Orphan Car Club really doesn't do it. Maybe Dark Ages Car Club? Nickle Era Car Club?  The point is there are many  many very inexpensive cars from this period that could be toured or shown by the average guy or gal and which would serve as great entry level cars to bring more folks into the hobby.

[alsancle]

1 hour ago, trimacar said:

When you say "earlier cars", I'm going to assume you mean the period from 1916 to 1925, more or less.  The cars in this time period have always been in a gray zone, too old for Horseless Carriage meets, too young (until recently) for Full Classic status, and in many cases really not as tour friendly to keep up with 1930 and later cars.

 

I think you a right about this Dave.   It was also a styling transitional period.  Stuck between Brass and what I consider the pinnacle of automotive styling in 1932.   The tour friendly thing is true too.  The problem now is that even a Caravan will be 75% post 1936 cars.  Very few 28-35.

[trimacar]

27 minutes ago, alsancle said:

It was also a styling transitional period.

 

Very true.  Until the late 1920's, most cars seemed to be designed by engineers, where form follows function.  That's why you see so many "What is it" posts of late teens and early twenties cars, they all looked alike.  Very few cars had styling cues that made you immediately say "Oh, that's a new Bumpupdowntheroadmobile".....Pierce Arrow was an exception, with patented fender mount headlights, but even that marque was hard to distinguish when it came with the optional bracket headlights.

 

I wasn't until the late 1920's that manufacturers had groups that were "Styling and Art" or some such name, looking closely at body lines, paint combinations, and visual appeal of the automobiles being made.  As you state, that culminated in a great few years, I'd say that from 1932 to 1934, a manufacturer had to really work at it to make an unattractive car.  Just about every car made those three years was stunning in the classic sense of what a car could look like, just a pleasure to behold.

[padgett]

Suspect part of it is that the price for entry to the hobby has changed dramatically from when a 55 Chevvy was $150 and K-Mart had everything you needed to fix it.

 

37 years ago the first computer cars appeared and today a scanner is an essential tool. Heck for most cars you need a special tool just to change the spark plugs. In counterpoint, powertrains really changed little from when Boss Kettering started putting starters on cars to the '70s. Probably the biggest change was from generators to alternators  everything else was evolutionary and big changes never lasted (copper cooled engines, sleeve valve engines, Wankels,...). Then in the space of a few years carburetors disappeared, electronic ignitions and supplemental restraints became the norm, and emissions/mpg became king (anybody who lives in the "valley of smoke" should expect smog (smoke + fog)).

 

 

[Bleach]

Padgett, there was a time you could go to any parts store and get anything you needed. The only time you had to wait for something was if you needed something machined or pressed in.

Now you often have to wait for parts to be ordered because those parts store have little you need except for fluids and some filters. You can't even drop off brake drums and wait for them to machine them anymore. They often say pick them up later in the day or they have to send them out.

[60FlatTop]

Grimy, you write a lot taller than you look.

Bernie

[60FlatTop]

11 hours ago, edinmass said:

like so many other Pierce owners who are shallow we say, tight with a buck (cheap), he also wouldn’t admit that he actually ate the horse! To be fair, even back in the day when the car was new, the original owner would probably have done the same thing. I think George’s only regret about the entire incident is the horse was thirty five years old when he was struck done, thus he was a little bit hard to chew. 

 

It's painful to laugh like this I have to keep thinking "this is not a stereotype. It is a generalization." while I wipe my eyes.

 

Oh, I should kindly add that I am of Irish decent, was a sailor, and pay too much for my Buicks.

Edited January 5, 2018 by 60FlatTop (see edit history)

[edinmass]

11 hours ago, Grimy said:

Fast Eddie, what chemicals have you ingested tonight?  After buying that Pierce two years ago (I've put 3,000 miles on it in that time) after lusting after that particular car since 1998, all I can afford is horsemeat in the form of dog food.  But it's more than worth it!

 

 

I knew you hit that horse on purpose! Fresh road kill is better than that canned stuff every day of the week! By ththe way George, red wine or white with horse steaks? ?

[Stude Light]

15 hours ago, MochetVelo said:

How much longer will gasoline be in general use? Will that determine the real end of the (internal combustion) antique car hobby?

 

Phil

I think gasoline will be around for a lot longer than you think.  I'm sure the price may change in the future but availability will always be there.  Take leaded gasoline for instance...it was banned in 1975, right?  Go to your local airport and buy some 100LL (low lead).  That is good ole tetraethyl lead.  They are still working on an alternative 43 years after it was "banned".

Scott

[Grimy]

6 minutes ago, edinmass said:

By ththe way George, red wine or white with horse steaks? ?

A strong red, by all means--a young zin is ideal.  Save your white for armadillo roadkill...

[Grimy]

37 minutes ago, 60FlatTop said:

Grimy, you write a lot taller than you look.

Bernie, thank you.....I think.  I'm a bit compact, let us say, but this Pierce stands 7'8" tall with the top up.

[Bhigdog]

Dear Abby's Thursday column has a letter from a women who was given a ride in a friends "50 year old vintage" car. She felt it was ""under powered , rickety, and unsafe". She sent her friend a "strongly worded" Email expressing her concern for her friends safety. She asked Abbey if she was wrong to tell her friend the car was unsafe.

Abby said she did the right thing.

Just one more public perception that will diminish the hobby going forward...............Bob

 

[keiser31]

2 hours ago, Bhigdog said:

Dear Abby's Thursday column has a letter from a women who was given a ride in a friends "50 year old vintage" car. She felt it was ""under powered , rickety, and unsafe". She sent her friend a "strongly worded" Email expressing her concern for her friends safety. She asked Abbey if she was wrong to tell her friend the car was unsafe.

Abby said she did the right thing.

Just one more public perception that will diminish the hobby going forward...............Bob

 

Ha ha....the only reason some folks think old cars are "rickety and unsafe" is because they expect them to be like modern cars as far as performance. Try to drive them like new cars and be disappointed. Drive them as they were built to be driven and be happy as a lark that they perform as they should. Let people think whatever they want to think. I will be happy driving my under powered, rickety and unsafe 1931 Dodge Brothers coupes the way they were meant to be driven.

Edited January 5, 2018 by keiser31 (see edit history)

[Grimy]

4 minutes ago, Bhigdog said:

Dear Abby's Thursday column has a letter from a women who was given a ride in a friends "50 year old vintage" car. She felt it was ""under powered , rickety, and unsafe". She sent her friend a "strongly worded" Email expressing her concern for her friends safety. She asked Abbey if she was wrong to tell her friend the car was unsafe.

Abby said she did the right thing.

Just one more public perception that will diminish the hobby going forward...............Bob

Bob, I had no idea you are a regular reader of Dear Abby......  :-)

 

Seriously, this is all the more reason to get our cars out there and explain them in the context of the progression of the automobile.  Yes, safety equipment came 'way too long after speed, if you discount Ford's abortive 1956 attempt, and only after governmental intervention.  All part of the history...

 

In 2016 I displayed the 1918 Pierce and the "streamline modern" 1934 Silver Arrow coupe, side by side, in the Blackhawk Museum's pavilion at the GoodGuys (hot rod/street rod) 3,000+ car event at the fairgrounds.  What a difference in 16 years!  (Compare 2001 to 2017 cars?)  I enjoy experiencing the very rapid technological and styling advances of the pre-WW2 auto industry.

[60FlatTop]

Abby is a pen name, second generation. My pen name, should you run across it, is Erwin Addison. If you are heading out of New York State on RT 390 it may seem vaguely familiar. Although recently I have been defaulting to Owen Cornelius Dalton.

 

NEITHER Abby or Erwin is a reliable source of help. Seek a professional. See post #44.

 

Bernie... er Erwin

[Bhigdog]

19 minutes ago, keiser31 said:

Ha ha....the only reason some folks think old cars are "rickety and unsafe" is because they expect them to be like modern cars as far as performance. Try to drive them like new cars and be disappointed. Drive them as they were built to be driven and be happy as a lark that they perform as they should. Let people think whatever they want to think. I will be happy driving my under powered, rickety and unsafe 1931 Dodge Brothers coupes the way it was meant to be driven.

 

I agree with you but you miss the point. If the public perception of our cars is they are rickety and unsafe there will be less and less incentive to be involved with them and worse yet, no opposition to any legislation restricting our use of or enjoyment of them.

Again, further adding to the decline of the hobby.................Bob

[Bhigdog]

21 minutes ago, Grimy said:

Bob, I had no idea you are a regular reader of Dear Abby.....

 

Actually I am. My morning routine is to have my morning coffee while I read my local rag (hence the Abby) and the WSJ. By then it's about 0900 and time to do a few things. I know, I know, but someone has to do it.................Bob 

 

[Grimy]

2 minutes ago, Bhigdog said:

Actually I am. My morning routine is to have my morning coffee while I read my local rag (hence the Abby) and the WSJ

As long as you also read the WSJ, my concerns are alleviated...  :-)

[60FlatTop]

4 minutes ago, Bhigdog said:

no opposition to any legislation restricting our use of or enjoyment of them.

 

NO legislation comes without a financial penalty attached. Our cars will be fine as long as the fee, tax, or tribute is paid.

 

Ask the people in Arizona who bought solar panels and are now being taxed for using sunshine. Your elected officials will help you.

Bernie

[Bhigdog]

17 minutes ago, 60FlatTop said:

Our cars will be fine as long as the fee, tax, or tribute is paid.

 

Unless air bags are mandated if persons under 14 are in the car. Or anti lock brakes are mandated if the car is driven within 1000 yards of a school zone .........etc etc etc. Lots of ways for over zealous public servants to grandstand in the name of protecting THE CHILDREN. Especially when the group being gored is small and ineffective.............Bob

Edited January 5, 2018 by Bhigdog (see edit history)

[60FlatTop]

28 minutes ago, Bhigdog said:

public servants to grandstand in the name of protecting the CHILDREN.

 A large New York area school district installed speed monitoring cameras on roads adjacent to the school property. In the first year of use they were very effective. And reduced the county income, in part school revenue by nearly $1,00,000. The cameras were removed to reestablish cash flow.

 

So we have established a limit to the protection of children, about a million bucks on this round.

 

To the point of the topic, there is always a work around. I intend to be enjoying my old car hobby 30 years from now in pretty much the same manner as I do today. Some aspects will just cost more, be it from decreased participants or increased regulation. You can bet the Hobby is more adaptable than that school district. (They probably had a million dollars of unfunded state mandates to pay).

 

Its a circus.

 

Bernie

Edited January 5, 2018 by 60FlatTop (see edit history)

[trimacar]

1 hour ago, Grimy said:

A strong red, by all means--a young zin is ideal.  Save your white for armadillo roadkill...

 

Armadillo roadkill?  In Louisiana we always thought they were born dead on the side of the road.

 

I agree on gasoline and the IC engine, it's not going away anytime soon.  For one thing, the infrastructure isn't there to support enough electric vehicles to replace all the IC engine vehicles.  Contrary to what a lot of tree huggers think, you still have to produce energy and pollute to some degree to generate electricity.  Pollution also occurs when the batteries are manufactured, and it takes a couple of years of driving an electric car to "get that back" as far as offsetting the equivalent IC pollution.

 

If every IC car were taken off the road tomorrow, and instantly replaced by electric cars, you'd have lines waiting to get the batteries charged, and electricity would have to be rationed. 

 

I'm not against electric cars, but to think that they're going to replace all IC cars in the next couple of decades seems more than ambitious and less than feasible.