Nationwide Puts Members First

[trimacar]

OK, I've been a loyal follower and contributor on this forum for years.  Please read quickly, I'll bet the moderators won't like this.

 

Since I've received a personal email from AACA, plus a letter from AACA, both today, about a Nationwide insurance alliance with AACA, and I feel I have the right to comment.

 

If AACA needs extra income, please raise the membership rates, don't get into bed with corporations.  I guess the AACA credit card was sort of OK, at least if someone saw it you might have a chance to talk old cars, but this one hits home to me.

 

-I had Nationwide insurance on our house for over 30 years, no claims, paid the bills

-about 5 years ago, the yearly bill came, it had more than doubled

-went to see my friendly agent, he told me that, all of a sudden, I was high risk...wow, no claims and I live in an excellent neighborhood, hmmm, what can he do...

-he said, well, I can get your premium down, we need to do a home inspection, I said sure

-home inspection, the finish pieces around the base of my front porch columns had peeling paint, and there was a woodpile next to my rear deck, fix and remove respectively

-What?  I asked my representative, did those two things have to do with insurance?  I fixed the columns, but the woodpile was where I needed it to access for winter fireplace, and refused to move it

-Nationwide cancelled my insurance, remember, "NATIONWIDE PUTS MEMBERS FIRST".   Horse hockey.  They didn't hesitate to cancel, never got a call from my agent, nothing.

-Went to State Farm, better insurance, less money than Nationwide was to start with...and after a couple of minor claims they are great.

 

This is NOT where an antique automobile club should be heading, endorsing such corporations.  I feel the AACA is using it's size as a bargaining tool, and as much as the money is nice, this is NOT WHAT SHOULD BE HAPPENING IN THE OLD CAR WORLD!

 

So, as mentioned, read fast, bet you guys don't like me right now...David Coco Winchester Virginia

[MCHinson]

David,

 

As I understand it, AACA has an opportunity to benefit from a relationship with Nationwide. Obviously Nationwide hopes it will receive some new business from responsible AACA members who are probably a better than average insurance risk group of customers. I will be contacting my current Nationwide agent and will see if I can receive any additional discount as an AACA member. I don't see where it hurts you in any way except having to see one email (and probably another mention in Speedster and/or Antique Automobile).  

 

I have been with Nationwide for many years. I went there after a problem with another major Insurance company who will remain nameless. I don't totally understand why, but it seems that Insurance Companies have very different policies in different places, probably due to different state laws. After our last hurricane damage, I had a bad experience with one Insurance adjuster. I was upset with Nationwide for that until I called my agent. He simply sent another adjuster out and they corrected the problem to my satisfaction. I think that maybe we should add Insurance to that list of Politics and Religion that are difficult to discuss without upsetting people. You have had a bad experience with them after many years as a customer and I certainly understand that you are upset about it, but I don't see the harm of AACA partnering with them. From my limited ability to observe the operation of the club, the management has done a great job of being good stewards of the member's financial contributions to the club. Most things, within reason, to keep the dues more affordable is a good thing for the club in my opinion. 

[Mark Huston]

I previously had Nationwide car insurance.  I had one car accident and they cancelled my policy.   I have had Allstate ever since for the past 30 plus years home, auto, and life.  I will not be changing to Nationwide just because the AACA endorses them. 

[Jeff Perkins / Mn]

I agree 100% with David C. Here is the email I sent to the executive director about 1/2 hour ago:

Hello,
I have to say I object to the fact that you sold my email address to an outside company for the purposes of advertising. I am very disappointed. What is to prevent them from selling my email address? Upon receiving my first communication with them, if I cannot unsubscribe permanently, I will again be very unhappy. As of now I will leave my email address with the AACA but if a situation like this occurs again I will have to consider deleting my email from your database.
Please do not do this again I get enough garbage email as it is. 
Thank you for your consideration. 
Regards, Jeff Perkins, Lakeland Minnesota, AACA  0011372J

Edited July 22, 2016 by kking15 (see edit history)

[John_S_in_Penna]

Since David Coco is well reputed, his words carry extra weight.

 

Another nameless home-insurance company, with a well-known name,

I've seen recently in a very poor light.  It's not with me, but with a client

of mine who had foundation problems, and the insurance company claimed that

a bowed foundation wall, with a wide horizontal crack due to bending failure,

was structurally sound!  Every step of the way was a fight.  The company

didn't even want to pay to waterproof a replaced basement wall.

 

Matt (M C Hinson), it's not that insurance is a topic that should be

banned.  I have had fine experiences with my antique-car insurance company.

We can normally tell our good or bad experiences without naming the

bad ones publicly.  But if any of those companies have built their lush 

corporate offices and office parks through penury, they must account for their actions!

Edited July 22, 2016 by John_S_in_Penna
Installed a better simile (see edit history)

[Steve Moskowitz]

David, I respect your right and all other members to their opinions.  I have mine.  I have not found the business yet that satisfies everyone of their customers.  Sorry for your experience but because yours was bad does not indict an entire company.  I imagine we can find hundreds of thousands of people who are happy with Nationwide.  Heck even Dale Earnhardt is!  

 

The facts are that while YOU say raise the dues I will tell you thousands will object when we do.  This clubs has raised hundred's of thousands of dollars that have directly benefited our members by our relationships with commercial projects and companies such as MBNA, Harris Connect, RM/Sotheby's and Auctions America.  This program was well thought out as Nationwide is a very reputable company and their offer was fair, the agreement precludes them from selling our list and they were willing to have no telephone solicitation and minimal mailings through the year.  In fact we thought they were a little crazy to not ask for more.

 

I 100% disagree with you that we should not be using our size to our advantage.  While the club is a club to the membership, it needs to be run well as a business in order to survive.  Taking advantage of opportunities that are affinity programs are done by thousands of non-profits and are sensible alternatives to always having our hands out asking for donations.  At one time this was rampant.

 

Jeff, did send me an email and I handled his request as we will do for anyone who wants taken off the list.  However, our members deserve a chance to save money as the HUGE difference with this offer is that affinity programs qualify for lower rates and our members may save a lot of money if they voluntarily wish to exercise looking into this offer.  Seems to me no one is injured in this deal.  Not interested?  Simply ignore!  Interested place a call.  Simple as that...

[Steve Moskowitz]

Answer, the forum or this website is NOT involved in the Nationwide program.  Forum members emails will never be used for any purpose whatsoever other than the operation of this website.  AACA did NOT give any former member emails out.  AACA did not sell any emails.  Maybe semantics but we have allowed Nationwide to use our current member database in order to make this offer.  This is a legal binding contract that spells out the terms, provides that they cannot use these addresses for anything but the express purpose and provides for a very substantial donation to the club BEFORE they even sell a single contract.  In fact AACA has already received a payment upfront.

[Jeff Perkins / Mn]

Steve M. has satisfied my concerns as far as this matter goes. I for one am thankful that we have him and the rest of the staff at AACA. Although many of us may have concerns over some of the day to day and business decisions made by the AACA hierarchy, I truly believe they have the best interest of all of us in the AACA in their hearts.

[Steve Moskowitz]

Jeff you will be burned at the stake for those comments!   All I can say Is that the board makes its decisions based upon what they feel is best for the majority of the membership.  It is not always a smooth ride but the board and staff try awfully hard to do the right thing. 

[mdsbob]

I'm with David!

 

This comment is for Steve:

"provides for a very substantial donation to the club BEFORE they even sell a single contract."

In an effort to promote transparency please divulge the amount of the donation????

 

I personally would like to request that my mailing and/or e-mail address(s) not be provided to Nationwide.

 

Regards,

 

Bob

[Steve Moskowitz]

You were at one time apparently and we normally do not purge records since so many people will drop out due to all sorts of circumstance and then rejoin.  If a member dies or if anyone wants their record removed we easily can do that.  The records sent to Nationwide were only to be active members (a mistake or two with 33,000 plus records could have been made.   

[trimacar]

Yes, I know my experience is personal, but I've stated the facts, and to receive a mailing from AACA that states the very thing that I resent (NATIONWIDE PUTS MEMBERS FIRST)  was what got me going.

 

Is there an end to this?  Will I also be getting emails and letters from Walmart, McDonalds, Target, and every other company that might approach the AACA Board? The list is endless.  Does the membership have any say in this whatsoever?

 

I know I'm being a PITA, but this really upsets me.  I don't give a tinker's damn about getting any benefits from the AACA, other than membership in a club of people who love old cars as much as I do.  When you make it too much of a "business", then the rights of the club members are being compromised.

[Steve Moskowitz]

The first donation was $25,000.  Nothing to hide.  Again, David, YOU do not give a tinker's damn about benefits but others do.  We have almost 59,000 members and we have to think of the majority.  We (I) respect your views we hope you can respect ours.  History on all our past programs have proved that in the end the majority appreciated the affiliations.  This one is one that as I said, has the opportunity of saving members money and I cannot see where that is a bad thing.  I guess we will have to agree to disagree...that has not happened often on this forum with me and you but I still see it differently this time. 

 

As to the membership having a say.  Sure, write the board.  Come to roundtable meetings at meets.  Come to our annual meeting and make your feelings known.  Ask the board to can me!  You have a voice but others do too and some will naturally be ok with this. 

 

In one of my earlier posts, I said that to the members it must be a club!  I agree, this hardly IMO amounts to changing what we have done for the past 13 years or more.  We have put this club on a sound financial base, upgraded our magazine tremendously, upgraded awards throughout our system, hired professional staff, invested in this website and forum, and on and on and that takes running a sound business. The business affiliations have helped us to do this.  I wonder if you have the exact opposite experience with this company whether your words would be the same?  Again, that is the way I see it from my vantage point and naturally the last thing we want to do is upset a single member.  Just hard satisfying everyone. 

 

It is now 9:03 PM and long since time for me to leave the office so it is my last reply for the night.

[DAVES89]

That's less then 50 cents a lead. Hopefully there is more coming then that. 

[trimacar]

Steve, I appreciate your viewpoint, and the AACA is a great club, and I'm sure many financial issues have been helped by partnering with some companies.

 

Here's my problem with partnering with such an insurance company.

 

From  what I can see, partnerships between AACA and companies has been, up to now, "passive" partnerships.  Sure, anyone can use a credit card, and if there's a kickback to AACA, no problem.  Same with auction companies, discount here, discount there, no 

problem.

 

But an insurance company?  We should all know how this will work, they'll give a great discount to start (I've been in business, the Nationwide memo is probably circulating now, lock in AACA members any way you can), then yearly they'll start easing fees up, and anyone who leaves their long established insurance company might soon find themselves hurting.  And, Nationwide paid pennies per 

member for both a mailing list and an endorsement, to a fairly affluent group of people.

 

Thus, the insurance company endorsed and promoted by AACA becomes a non-passive entity, and while the AACA may benefit short term, and members may even benefit in the short term, there's the potential in the long term for members to be financially hurt.

 

Yes, the way I was treated by Nationwide affects my opinion. If it had happened to you, would you ignore that fact in a Board vote?  That said, I appreciate passive revenue for our club, rather than the type of relationship this one appears to be.....

 

 

[padgett]

And exactly how is anyone supposed to think this e-Mail did not come from the AACA ? YWTK

 

From: Antique Automobile Club of America general@aaca.org

Now if you happen to be able to see everything:

Received: from p2-jb723.ad.prodcc.net (p2-pen6.ad.prodcc.net [10.252.0.106])

Also if you happen to know that a 10. is a non broadcast address then

Received: from ccm183.constantcontact.com ([208.75.123.183]:50557)

"The Easy, Affordable Way to Reach Your Customers with Email Marketing constantcontact.com has been visited by 10K+ users in the past month"

 

ps just looked at the membership form. An e-Mail address is required. Could not find a policy on the use of e-Mail addresses. Do not want my e-mail shared with anyone for any reason or I will need to cancel my membership.

 

Edited July 23, 2016 by padgett (see edit history)

[60FlatTop]

A few years ago I was driving to a large car meet with a friend who was then in the home heating and air conditioning business. At a rest stop a tour bus was loading with a long line of senior citizens. He said "Man, what I'd give for a list of their names and addresses." Fifty cents apiece would have given him the blind stutters, as Woody would say.

 

Oh, I meant to add, get over it.

Bernie

Edited July 23, 2016 by 60FlatTop (see edit history)

[Bob Giles]

Nationwide never wanted to give me a quote when I mentioned AARP. Has something changed?

[trimacar]

Well that's interesting.  Was sharing our emails with a third party marketing  contractor part of the contract with AACA?   https://www.constantcontact.com/index.jsp  

 

What prevents the third party contractor from using our email addresses, or selling them?  I'm sure that should be covered in the contract, just curious.

[32tatra]

I got the letter today about this, it went right into the recycling bin.  If they are giving the club a large amount of money, I have no problem with this. As long as they do not call me.  The club needs money and this is one way of getting it.

[1937-44]

  Steve I want you to know this is not a personal attack against you. You have done a very good job as director and Moderator of this site. I was going to send an email to the directors of the board individually but can't seem to find email addresses for anyone on the board except you, guess they just want you to receive the flak. Consequently I'm posting my message to the board here.

 

  I've been a member of AACA for a number of years. What a great magazine and organization and well worth the cost of the yearly dues. However I never agreed to the cost of dues to include selling my name, email and address to commercial companies.

  I just received an invitation by mail to save money by buying Nationwide car insurance with the AACA logo proudly affixed to the letter. 

I am not making any derogatory comments or opinions about Nationwide as I have none to make. I just don't like having people or organizations selling my personal information. When I joined I did not realize I was giving up my privacy. I now understand that the AACA has decided it has the right to sell what information it has about individual members to whomever they decide for a donation of $25,000 or more.  I can only hope that the AACA feels compensated enough to offset the loss of members as I probably will not be renewing my membership to an organization that sells my personal information.

                                                                                                                                     Carl    AACA #200297

[W_Higgins]

What it boils down to is people with manners that are acting as a go-between ask the party that has no knowledge of the transaction, "Would it be alright if I share your personal information with ****?  I think it would be to your benefit."

 

People without manners.... well.... do this.

 

How about next time you have them buy an ad in the magazine and let us make the decision?

 

 

 

 

 

[padgett]

Most companies have a check box "allow my e-Mail..." Guess AACA doesn't. EFF might be interested.

Edited July 23, 2016 by padgett (see edit history)

[John_S_in_Penna]

5 hours ago, Steve Moskowitz said:

...It is not always a smooth ride but the board and staff try awfully hard to do the right thing. 

 

You can see Steve M's dedication here.

His business day is long over, yet he's been

on the forum explaining this issue to us all.

Edited July 23, 2016 by John_S_in_Penna (see edit history)

[John348]

I think it is a great idea! We all need insurance, and we all like to see if we can save money. I don't see any problem with the email address either, I have to physically throw out junk mail delivered by the postal service that comes to my four addresses, a lot easier to hit the delete key if you don't want it. It Is not like it is your credit card info of SSI number. Then again I use my real name and the towns I live in on my signature, I never really had to hide my identity anyone. I used to like my cell phone for years because the only people who called were those who had my number, well it was only a matter of time that the telemarketers have my cell phone number.  For someone to threaten giving up their membership over something so miner, to me it seems like they are just looking for an excuse to leave, or attention

As far as Dave's situation, the insurance company did not want him anymore because he had not had a claim in many years, and they felt statistically he was due for one, so they raise the rates. Every insurance company does the same thing. It is done with auto insurance all of the time, if you did not have an accident in many years they want to drop you before you do.  

 

Edited July 23, 2016 by John348 (see edit history)

[Paul Dobbin]

Much fuss about nothing in this thread.  Remember we don't fire the Post Office for junk mail, we ignore it.  Email is the new way to communicate and we all have a "Delete"button.  

If bashing Insurance companies on a national basis, remember that insurance is different in every state, even of the same company name. They are regulated by each of the 50 states and their rates and underwriting rules all subject to 50 different sets of rules.  Each state insurance unit is trying to make a profit by selecting the risks least likely to have claims and they set their risk selection rules differently.  

When any business offers their services, it's the consumer who decides yes or no, or DELETE,  2 seconds or less !

I'm happy to delete or unsubscribe if it re-occurs.  I think most of us are good risks, but I only practiced in one state.

Now I'm on my way to play with cars.

[R Walling]

10 hours ago, 1937-44 said:

I was going to send an email to the directors of the board individually but can't seem to find email addresses for anyone on the board except you, guess they just want you to receive the flak.

 

 I guess there are some members also that don't want to receive spam!  (;-)

[JACK M]

I have said it before and I will say it again.

Insurance companies are in business to make money, part of that is to try and get out of paying up for losses.

I hate that our governments have mandated that we have insurance. We got along for years without it and now its the law.

What a boon for insurance companies that it is mandatory.

[MCHinson]

1 hour ago, Roger Walling said:

 

 I guess there are some members also that don't want to receive spam!  (;-)

 

Anybody who thinks that the director's email addresses are hidden must not have looked for them.  They are all available from the AACA website...

 

http://www.aaca.org/About-AACA/officers-a-directors-roster.html

[Matt Harwood]

When I saw the E-mail in my IN box, I felt the same as many of you--it just didn't seem right. All the salient points have already been made, so I have little to add beyond agreeing that I'm uncomfortable with a car club selling member information. I have no personal beef with Nationwide; I'd feel the same regardless of which company it is.

 

I hope Steve and the other fine folks who run the club don't take any of the comments in this thread personally, because none of it is intended that way. There's universal agreement that they all do a fine job. This isn't an indictment of their decisions or abilities. It's just an uncomfortable thing to know that the club is selling information for the sole purpose of solicitation and profit. I recently caught a business partner company doing this with my client list and terminated my relationship with them immediately (by the way, it wasn't Constant Contact, which is merely the delivery system for the Email message, they don't do anything with the e-mail addresses other than send the messages).

 

I know it's a tough job to run a club this big, that it has to keep an eye on balance sheets, and that money is the lubricant that keeps this hobby moving. But I'd also argue that if the club needs money, it should go to the membership for it or scale back to a point where it can sustain itself on dues that the membership is willing to pay. I'm always willing to accept a dues increase because of all the wonderful perks that it buys me, but apparently I'm in the minority. Raising dues is probably not a popular idea, and wanting something for nothing is certainly the new American way, but I'm not of the opinion that the club should be a for-profit endeavor.

 

This isn't a make-or-break thing for me and my membership with the club, but if it keeps happening, it will be and I suspect I'm not alone.

[60FlatTop]

The biggest problem might be when Nationwide begins dealing with the group and tries to sell the list of names back. That could put the  total around $75,000.

 

Groucho Marx " Do you think I could buy back my introduction to you? "

 

Bernie

[Steve Moskowitz]

Wow.  I just do not know what else to say.  Emails and addresses in this day and age are not personal information.  Any company can go to a host of companies that specialize in providing lists by various categories.  In my old business I used them extensively to reach new customers.  AACA certainly is not going to get into wholesale use of our member info.  This deal should end up well over 6 figures for us when it is done so was not done for just the 25K.

 

When we used this information for the Harris Connect member album there was the same criticism in this forum.  Yet over 5,000 people purchased the product.  When we co-sponsored some initiatives with an auction company there was the same criticism by some and that organization has not only benefited our members individually but also the club, library and museum.

 

If the club had entered into these agreements "willy-nilly" that would be one thing but careful consideration was given to all of them and this last deal had been discussed for almost two years before the board read the final approval and approved it.

 

I am truly sorry that some are upset.  It is certainly not what we want to see but I just see very little harm in this deal as you can simply ignore it!

[W_Higgins]

32 minutes ago, Steve Moskowitz said:

Emails and addresses in this day and age are not personal information..... 

 

I am truly sorry that some are upset.  It is certainly not what we want to see but I just see very little harm in this deal as you can simply ignore it!

 

The problem with this manner of thinking is that you are incorrect.  I PAY for my email address and I make the choice to give it only to individuals and organizations that will hold it in confidence.  It must be an issue with a large segment of society because many organizations go out of their way to make clear, "We will never sell or share your email address without your permission".

 

My recommendation to everyone dissatisfied with this is to forward the Nationwide email to:

 

aaca1@aaca.org

 

The recipient can simply choose to ignore it.

 

 

[W_Higgins]

9 minutes ago, AJFord54 said:

If you are indeed paying for your email address, I suggest you shop around for a better price.  They are free.

 

That's piss-poor logic.  Free or paid for, I don't want the junk mail!  So is the Dennis Carpenter thing you mentioned on Page 1.  I wasn't asked to check a box to receive offers from Nationwide.  Somebody checked that box for me.

 

Someone else mentioned firing the Post Office for junk mail.... I would if I could!  Actually, I had this debate with them recently for over-stuffing my PO Box and they said, "It's your mail, we can't not deliver your mail, it's our duty."  I plopped down on the counter the shredded pile and told them, "This one says 'Boxholder', this one says, 'Recipient'.  My name isn't 'Boxholder' or 'Recipient', it's Walter.  Most of it doesn't even have a box number on it."  Guess what?  No more bulk junk mail.

 

 

[John348]

11 hours ago, helfen said:

Gee John I've been with State Farm for nearly fifty years and that's never happened.

 Well Allstate dropped my homeowners two years before Sandy because I lived to close to the water, true I am a 1/2 mile from the Long Island Sound, but I am 90 foot above sea level,   never had a claim in 30 years. Metropolitan raised my auto about 20 years ago for no real reason, I now have Allstate.

I don't think this is really a big deal, a group discount is nice thing to try to take advantage of and rather visionary of the BOD of the AACA to persue

[1937-44]

2 hours ago, MCHinson said:

 

Anybody who thinks that the director's email addresses are hidden must not have looked for them.  They are all available from the AACA website...

 

http://www.aaca.org/About-AACA/officers-a-directors-roster.html

Matt,

 Thank you for that information and I stand corrected. I merely looked in my latest AACA magazine and the only one I saw listed was Steve's email.

 

              Carl

[John_S_in_Penna]

I'm sure the AACA office has the club's best interest at heart.

However, most people probably believed, when they gave 

their e-mail addresses, "We do not give or sell your e-mail

addresses to anyone."  I don't know whether AACA ever said that,

but many organizations gathering that data do make that affirmation.

I don't think the issue is so much the inconvenience of more e-mail;

I think people see it as the betrayal of an implied trust.

 

The membership album, with antique car pictures and car lists,

was voluntary.  Even if it wasn't, it went out only to other members--

all fellow car fans--and not to commercial interests.  It was strictly a

club function, and one that enhanced members' enjoyment and fellowship.

So that's a different subject, and it's one I think was interesting and proper.

Edited July 23, 2016 by John_S_in_Penna (see edit history)

[W_Higgins]

30 minutes ago, John_S_in_Penna said:

I don't think the issue is so much the inconvenience of more e-mail;

I think people see it as the betrayal of an implied trust.

 

 

 

That's exactly right because -- what next?  Are they going to give out my physical address?  Better yet, are they going to give out my phone number?  I think it's pretty safe to say everybody here universally objects to all the junk phone calls they receive. 

 

The other point in all of this is now Nationwide has it.  If this stuff can be sold, do you think they're just going to sit on it?  No.  They're going to sell their list at some point and try to recoup some of this $25K and distribution of the addresses is going to spread exponentially as future buyers do the same.

 

When the AACA files their next Form 990 they ought out add "Data Mining" to the list of club activities.

 

 

 

 

[John_S_in_Penna]

And while some of us are disagreeing with the decision,

let me propose a positive compromise--a way to make this work out:

 

---Do not have Nationwide use members' e-mails directly.

    In fact, have them delete them and promise not to use them.

---Let the publicity for this new offer come directly from AACA.

    They've used the e-mails once.  Maybe use them just a couple

     more times, a couple of months apart, to let us know more of the offer.

---Let AACA promote the insurance discount in their other publications:

     Speedster, Antique Automobile magazine, brochures at Hershey, etc.

     This can be done as heavily as they think appropriate, because

     these won't be direct contacts with members.

---Let all members who are interested in the discount then contact

     Nationwide.  (This is exactly the opposite of Nationwide contacting members.)

     The AACA can get a percentage, just as they were planning.

---If any Nationwide executives are car fans, let them interact with

     members at antique-car events--emphasizing their cars while

     making themselves known to the membership.  That's TRUE affinity!

 

From what I saw of the earlier MBNA credit-card affinity program, it was done similarly.

It probably worked well.

 

[vermontboy]

Would AACA consider allowing members to opt out of allowing them to sell our private information to third parties? If not I will have to seriously consider not renewing my membership at the end of the year. I just checked the other clubs and organizations I belong to and every one of them states that they DO NOT sell members personal information.

 

It's easy to say just ignore it - just like all those robo calls at dinnertime. I consider this to be in the same category.