MCHinson Posted July 30, 2016 Share Posted July 30, 2016 I have already indicated that I have no problem with the program. I appreciate the money it is going to be saving me on my Nationwide policy. For the benefit of those of you who are upset I would really like to see if someone can find out the technical particulars of how the notification process works. While Steve is a smart guy, I am not sure that he is really the guy to explain the technical particulars about how it works. I am still not seen any evidence that my "email address" was "sold" to anybody. The first email that I have received appears to come from AACA through the same Constant Contact software that is used to send the Speedster electronic newsletter. The second email was sent from "Nationwide and AACA" through a similar system that appears to come from Nationwide and provides an unsubscribe link at the bottom of the email. I don't know if Nationwide received the email addresses or if the email was sent through a software system that allows them to send the email to the AACA database without actuallly seeing the email addresses or access to do anything else with the email addresses. There may be a technical explanation that will calm those with objections, and there may not be. I don't know. For me personally, it does not matter because my email address if quite easy to find online, but I would love to know the answer as it could possibly help calm some fears among those who are concerned. While some appear to be suggesting that Steve is "laying low", I suspect he is just busy on other AACA business. There is a meet coming soon and I suspect he is busy with the meet preparations and other AACA business. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
W_Higgins Posted July 30, 2016 Share Posted July 30, 2016 13 minutes ago, MCHinson said: While Steve is a smart guy, I am not sure that he is really the guy to explain the technical particulars about how it works. I am still not seen any evidence that my "email address" was "sold" to anybody. English hard. From Steve Moskowitz's post on the first page: Quote " Maybe semantics but we have allowed Nationwide to use our current member database in order to make this offer. This is a legal binding contract that spells out the terms, provides that they cannot use these addresses for anything but the express purpose " Oh looky, there's that "semantics" word again. I didn't even see that the first time. That last part of the last sentence is particularly important since by dictating what Nationwide can do with the addresses indicates that they have them. Hell, the first sentence is important too because it spells out that they have the database. There it is spelled out two ways. Quote While some appear to be suggesting that Steve is "laying low", I suspect he is just busy on other AACA business. There is a meet coming soon and I suspect he is busy with the meet preparations and other AACA business. He's had time for a handful of trivial posts since this started. To me this suggests this topic is yet more trivial than the others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trimacar Posted July 30, 2016 Author Share Posted July 30, 2016 There are two issues here. One is the selling of our email and mailing addresses to a company, which then uses a third party contractor to reach out to us. This has been discussed. The second issue is the fact that by selling this company the right to send out solicitations with the AACA icon, the AACA has, in effect, endorsed this insurance company. The AACA appears to be telling the members that this is the BEST insurance company to go with. This is the issue that I first posted about. So, if I transfer my policy to Nationwide, will the AACA stand behind the policy if Nationwide does not honor it correctly? Of course not, and that's at the core of my objection to this type of activity. It just happens to be the company that made a deal, and being good, bad, or indifferent in service wasn't a factor in the decision. So, now, the AACA has endorsed a company that rates 3.6 out of 5 on a satisfaction level, see attached link. That would be 72 out of a 100, using the old school system, a D at best. On this forum, if we criticize a company that provides an old car service for us, the moderators will delete that posting, as legally they don't want the AACA to be seen as libeling that company. What are the legal ramifications of an organization endorsing an insurance company, and one that, contrary to their advertising, really isn't on your side? Maybe none, but I still don't think this is a good way for the officers of the club to represent the members. https://usinsuranceagents.com/reviews/nationwide/ 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trulyvintage Posted July 30, 2016 Share Posted July 30, 2016 (edited) I did not read thru all the posts but .... A pile of wood next to a wood deck ( I assume your deck is wood ) that is part of your house is gasoline waiting for a match. You invited your insurance company on your property to do an inspection. AACA is not to blame for that - you are. Your insurance company told you to move the wood - you refused - they cancelled you. End of Story .... Why you would hold anyone else responsible other than yourself makes no sense whatsoever .... Jim Edited July 30, 2016 by Trulyvintage (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trimacar Posted July 30, 2016 Author Share Posted July 30, 2016 Jim, first, Nationwide doubled my premium for no reason whatsoever, after I was with them for a long time. No notice, no explanation, just a bill for the next year's premium. I conversed with agent, he said he could put me on a special policy if I had a home inspection. They then wanted me to move the wood pile (a nice, neat, logs cut for fireplace pile) 50 feet from the house. I did not want to walk 50 feet through the snow each time I needed a piece of wood, so I refused. So yes, I did not do what they asked, but they were being unreasonable IN MY OPINION, so when I got a notice of cancellation from Nationwide, went to State Farm and got better insurance for less money. I would like to think that SF won't screw up, but that remains to be seen. I am sure many people have had good relations with Nationwide, but that's only part of the point of this thread. It involves information sharing and endorsements. Read all the posts, please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trulyvintage Posted July 30, 2016 Share Posted July 30, 2016 So .... If State Farm or another home insurance company requested a home inspection as a condition of insuring you - if they told you to move the wood pile - would you do it ? Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trimacar Posted July 30, 2016 Author Share Posted July 30, 2016 "So .... If State Farm or another home insurance company requested a home inspection as a condition of insuring you - if they told you to move the wood pile - would you do it ?" Sure - if it was the last insurance company on the list. Still not the point. The point is they doubled my premium with no notice and for no reason, I never had a claim with them. And really not the overall point of this thread......an anecdote about the insurance company, but the problem to me is that AACA "endorsed" a company at all...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bhigdog Posted July 30, 2016 Share Posted July 30, 2016 1 hour ago, AJFord54 said: Then I suggest that Steve set up a "remove me" from the e-mail list for the Nationwide offering. Key in your name or AACA number and it will be removed. Simple - end of thread. How about a "remove me from any list you sell in the future". Simple. Or, how about a "we won't sell your name again without your express permission". That simple step would have eliminated the need for this thread in the first place................Bob 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vermontboy Posted July 30, 2016 Share Posted July 30, 2016 " Ok - let's add those two as well and call it a day." When members legitimate concerns are met by silence the noise usually continues. If the thread bothers you just don't follow it - there are lots of other threads. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MCHinson Posted July 30, 2016 Share Posted July 30, 2016 2 hours ago, AJFord54 said: Then I suggest that Steve set up a "remove me" from the e-mail list for the Nationwide offering. Key in your name or AACA number and it will be removed. Simple - end of thread. Both of the emails about the program had unsubscribe links at the bottom Any who are opposed to Nationwide having their email address simply needs to click the unsubscribe link in the email. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capngrog Posted July 30, 2016 Share Posted July 30, 2016 27 minutes ago, MCHinson said: Both of the emails about the program had unsubscribe links at the bottom Any who are opposed to Nationwide having their email address simply needs to click the unsubscribe link in the email. I think that both you and AJFord are missing the primary point here. The membership email addresses have been sold and are in the possession of an entity other than the AACA. That particular "genie" cannot be put back in the bottle. "Unsubscribing" from future robo-emails does not necessarily remove one's email address from a list. Cheers, Grog 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJFord54 Posted July 30, 2016 Share Posted July 30, 2016 52 minutes ago, vermontboy said: " Ok - let's add those two as well and call it a day." When members legitimate concerns are met by silence the noise usually continues. If the thread bothers you just don't follow it - there are lots of other threads. I do care about this as I appreciate all that Steve and the directors have done for us. I tried to help bring this to a conclusion so we can all move on. I don't consider it "noise" - at some point I think it becomes disrespectful to Steve as well. He works his ass off for this club and I for one don't want to lose a valuable guy like him. From the 20 or so that ( out of a how-many-thousand members that haven't complained) feel you have been "disrespected" - all well and good. Let them take action to accommodate your wishes and let's try to all get along. We're all going to be dead in 20 years! ? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MCHinson Posted July 30, 2016 Share Posted July 30, 2016 28 minutes ago, capngrog said: I think that both you and AJFord are missing the primary point here. The membership email addresses have been sold and are in the possession of an entity other than the AACA. That particular "genie" cannot be put back in the bottle. "Unsubscribing" from future robo-emails does not necessarily remove one's email address from a list. Cheers, Grog No, I understand totally. You and a number of other members are upset about the program. You want to continue arguing about it on the forum. Arguing about it on the forum does nothing to solve the problem. If you are unhappy about it there are two things that you should do. 1. Contact members of the board and register your objections. 2. Actually read the Nationwide email you received and follow the unsubscribe link. The unsubscribe link will totally remove you from Nationwide's email list. The unsubscribe link explains it as follows: "To remove your email address from this or all Nationwide email lists, please go here and follow instructions." That is the way an unsubscribe link works. If you want to drop your membership over this, you can do that. I personally think you are blowing it way out of proportion. If you read the email, you would be able to opt out of the program, remove yourself from the email list, and never hear back from Nationwide again by email. I suspect you will also be receiving one more piece of junk mail to trash or recycle. My guess is doing this would take a lot less time than it has taken you to post a single post on the forum about how angry you are. I simply have a different opinion of the program. The board took an action that upset you. That action is now saving me a little bit of money each year. You win some, you lose some, and some are rained out. Haven't we wasted enough time on this issue? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MCHinson Posted July 30, 2016 Share Posted July 30, 2016 4 minutes ago, helfen said: Again, The overall point for me is AACA gave our information away without ASKING us if it could. Databases get hacked all the time. What I need now is a apology and the assurance that they will never do this again without giving us the CHOICE in the matter. Simple. Why should we jump through all these hoops over something AACA did to us? Because posting on the forum is not going to accomplish what you want to accomplish. Please read the reply that you quoted. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MCHinson Posted July 30, 2016 Share Posted July 30, 2016 You still need to unsubscribe if you don't want your name in the database. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mdsbob Posted July 30, 2016 Share Posted July 30, 2016 Help me understand the workings of the agreement. On 7/22/2016 at 8:07 PM, Steve Moskowitz said: The first donation was $25,000. Nothing to hide. On 7/23/2016 at 10:43 AM, Steve Moskowitz said: This deal should end up well over 6 figures for us when it is done so was not done for just the 25K. I would be interested to know more details of what the agreement is. Is AACA going to get a percentage of the sales? If it’s not based on percentages, then why is it not already spelled out what AACA is going to get, as opposed to "should end up over 6 figures"? On 7/23/2016 at 10:43 AM, Steve Moskowitz said: If the club had entered into these agreements "willy-nilly" that would be one thing but careful consideration was given to all of them and this last deal had been discussed for almost two years before the board read the final approval and approved it. Is it possible to make public what the workings of the agreement/contract is? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MCHinson Posted July 30, 2016 Share Posted July 30, 2016 You have previously mentioned that. Still the same answer... unsubscribe from the link in the email if you want to be removed from the database. Complaining here does not get you out of the database. Unsubscribing does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capngrog Posted July 30, 2016 Share Posted July 30, 2016 1 hour ago, MCHinson said: No, I understand totally. You and a number of other members are upset about the program. You want to continue arguing about it on the forum. Arguing about it on the forum does nothing to solve the problem. Matt, As I said back in my Post #75: "With that said, I really don't care about the sale of email addresses; however, I'm bothered by the awkward attempts to spin the deal ("donations, financial contributions etc.)." I still don't care whether or not my email address was sold to Nationwide, and my Post #106 above was merely an attempt to explain why other folks do care. I'm glad to hear that unsubscribing from Nationwide's email contact list automatically removes one's email address. I can tell you from experience, that is not the way all unsubscribe routines work. I am not upset with the AACA-Nationwide program, and believe that you mistakenly addressed your comments to me in your Post #108 above. I have enjoyed this thread and consider it to be a spirited discussion (not an argument) of a topic that is relative to our times. I continue to believe in the AACA and the good job that the moderators do. Cheers, Grog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vermontboy Posted July 30, 2016 Share Posted July 30, 2016 "1. Contact members of the board and register your objections. 2. Actually read the Nationwide email you received and follow the unsubscribe link. The unsubscribe link will totally remove you from Nationwide's email list. The unsubscribe link explains it as follows: "To remove your email address from this or all Nationwide email lists, please go here and follow instructions." That is the way an unsubscribe link works." Thanks. I will contact the individual Board members and explain to them why I will be dropping my membership and why unsubscribing from the email does absolutely nothing to address the problems most of us are complaining about 1) the sale of our private information to a third party without our permission, 2) the appearance that you are endorsing Nationwide over other insurance companies who have supported the hobby for decades and 3) the failure to address valid concerns from members. Hopefully the problem will be addressed one way or the other by the time renewals are due so that each of us can make an informed decision. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MCHinson Posted July 31, 2016 Share Posted July 31, 2016 Grog, I was attempting to reply to your comment a bit before that reply. With 5 pages of comments, you will have to forgive me for forgetting your post on a previous page. What has been done can't be undone. Unsubscribing certainly appears to me to be an easy way out of those who are unhappy about it. Complaining directly to the board is the way to bring about change in the organization. Posting on the forum is not the way to bring about change in the organization. I am just tired of the anger. I think that there are a lot of more important issues in the world and the hobby. I just got back from a little bit of time in the garage. I would rather play with old cars than continue discussing this issue forever. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
W_Higgins Posted July 31, 2016 Share Posted July 31, 2016 (edited) 14 minutes ago, AJFord54 said: And ain't that swell - you're not even a member of AACA but you can berate this decision. Yes, somehow your e-mail listing was used from an old membership rooster & that's a shame. What I as a member find even more interesting is that MY dues are being used to allow you to post on our site and be disparaging as well. Someone please get his e-mail retracted. I absolutely cannot believe that we allow someone to bite that hand that feeds him because he is too cheap to pay dues to our club. Mad - you bet!!! Well, if they hadn't sold his email address.... Edited July 31, 2016 by W_Higgins (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
W_Higgins Posted July 31, 2016 Share Posted July 31, 2016 All of this has morphed from a single topic to reveal the bigger one of: What we have here is a customer service problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_S_in_Penna Posted July 31, 2016 Share Posted July 31, 2016 1 hour ago, W_Higgins said: All of this has morphed from a single topic to reveal the bigger one of: What we have here is a customer service problem. Excellent point, Mr. Higgins! AACA is a great organization: It brings car fans together, and I think the directors really do try to do the best for everyone. In this case, though, I think they (if they were involved) made a wrong decision, in selling people's e-mails for a monetary gain. Some say the decision can't be undone, but I think it can, and it takes some humility for them to say, "We goofed on this one thing. Let's do right by our members, look for another, proper promotion, and then we can get back to enjoying our cars!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vermontboy Posted July 31, 2016 Share Posted July 31, 2016 Just so everyone understands we are not crying "wolf" here the following quote is from the Ferrari Chat board. FCA is the Ferrari Club of America. " The FCA is very sensitive about private information getting out to the masses. They have strict rules about absolutely no one getting their hands on any contact information for any and all of the members. As someone has already pointed out earlier who has gone to a board meeting, this is an all too familiar topic to the FCA board. They respect members privacy. Besides what would the motivation be to sell the e mail list? Money? I do not think so " 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Restorer32 Posted July 31, 2016 Share Posted July 31, 2016 If you actually read the info sent to you by Nationwide you will notice that the discount offer does not include collector car insurance so you can't really accuse AACA of "endorsing" Nationwide. Personally I feel the AACA got a good deal. $25k can do a lot for the organization. Do you honesty believe Nationwide couldn't get your e-mail address any other way than thru AACA? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bhigdog Posted July 31, 2016 Share Posted July 31, 2016 32 minutes ago, Restorer32 said: If you actually read the info sent to you by Nationwide you will notice that the discount offer does not include collector car insurance so you can't really accuse AACA of "endorsing" Nationwide. Personally I feel the AACA got a good deal. $25k can do a lot for the organization. Do you honesty believe Nationwide couldn't get your e-mail address any other way than thru AACA? Looking at it another way, if the discount doesn't include collector cars the list was sold knowing it would be of little benefit to the club members. Kind of shoots down the "we are doing it for the members" excuse................Bob 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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