Nationwide Puts Members First

[bferg]

I really don’t have a dog in this (insurance) fight, but while we are on the subject of income for the Club I would like to make this suggestion.  Raise the dues!  The annual dues in this organization have not been raised in many years. Can you name another service or product that can make this claim? Very few indeed.

 

The AACA may have a few warts but excessive dues is not one of them.  Perhaps the Board, past and present, could be criticized for not keeping the dues in line with increased cost of doing business.

 

Furthermore, I propose the dues be increased and all employees be given a well-deserved raise. Guys and Gals we are getting a heck of deal.

[MCHinson]

At the risk of further inflaming this issue, I am a bit confused. I keep seeing comments about AACA "selling member's information". I don't see any sign of that happening. From Steve's explanation, Nationwide entered into a contract for specific limited use of AACA's database in exchange for financial contributions to AACA. That database was used for an email to offer discounts to AACA members. I will follow up on this opportunity with my Nationwide Agent and see if I can save some money. The method of using the database is through "Constant Contact" software. My church and my daughter's high school both use this same method to send me email so I don't have a lot of fear of abuse through Constant Contact. I was able to unsubscribe from emails from the Church's youth group when my daughter aged out of that program recently.

 

When the "Member's Album" program happened, it did involve several emails, which was perhaps mildly annoying, but was not a major problem. Hopefully the Nationwide offer will not involve too many emails. 

 

Someone previously posted that AACA requires you to have an email address on file. I know that the application does have a blank for email address (which is a fairly recent addition) but I know that it is not mandatory as I am aware of one local Chapter Member who recently joined without an email listed as he does not have an email address. I am happy that AACA has my email address. I receive the Speedster email and enjoy reading it. If you don't want AACA to have your email address, it is rather simple. Don't give it to them, or ask them to delete it from their records. I am sure that the staff would be happy to address your concerns. Hopefully the relatively small number of members who are upset about this issue can contact the office and have their email address removed from the database.

 

Contact Steve or members of the board if you feel compelled to complain about the decision to enter into this contract.  Hopefully, we can get back to having more fun on the forum discussing old cars instead of spending time debating this program endlessly.       

 

[John_S_in_Penna]

28 minutes ago, bferg said:

Furthermore, I propose the dues be increased and all employees be given a well-deserved raise. Guys and Gals we are getting a heck of deal.

 

Mr. Bferg, I like the fact that your ideas are constructive.

However, unless one knows what people's current salaries are,

what their performance ratings are, and what comparable

salaries are in the marketplace, that's hard to say.

I will say, though, that I get excellent service when I ask. 

[Matt Harwood]

4 hours ago, Steve Moskowitz said:

Wow.  I just do not know what else to say.  Emails and addresses in this day and age are not personal information.  Any company can go to a host of companies that specialize in providing lists by various categories.  In my old business I used them extensively to reach new customers.  AACA certainly is not going to get into wholesale use of our member info.  This deal should end up well over 6 figures for us when it is done so was not done for just the 25K.

 

When we used this information for the Harris Connect member album there was the same criticism in this forum.  Yet over 5,000 people purchased the product.  When we co-sponsored some initiatives with an auction company there was the same criticism by some and that organization has not only benefited our members individually but also the club, library and museum.

 

If the club had entered into these agreements "willy-nilly" that would be one thing but careful consideration was given to all of them and this last deal had been discussed for almost two years before the board read the final approval and approved it.

 

I am truly sorry that some are upset.  It is certainly not what we want to see but I just see very little harm in this deal as you can simply ignore it!

 

Steve, I totally understand your frustration and I know you and the board did your due diligence on this program and decided that it would be in the club's best interest. I don't think anyone believes that you guys were offered a pile of money and you took it without thinking about consequences and benefits. Your hearts were unquestionably in the right places.

 

That said, you're not helping with responses like this. A significant number of voices are being raised and just because 5000 people responded to the last time their information was compromised for money doesn't justify it. In fact, a 5% response rate is pretty low in terms of total membership reached per dollar spent (assuming that there are about 100,000 AACA members). Telling people who have concerns, "Tough luck, the money is too much to ignore, just delete it if you don't like it," is not the right response. The concern is valid. Just because an E-mail isn't necessarily private doesn't mean it's OK to sell it (or license it or loan it or however it's being framed here). The AACA membership is a prime demographic for a large number of companies, how many of them will come knocking now that they know the information is for sale? It's not like it'll be just this one time, don't try to sell us that line--the slope has already been greased for you. If Advance Auto Parts shows up wanting to buy the E-mail list and is willing to kick in $100,000 for the privilege, are you telling me you'll turn them away because you already did it this one and only time?

 

Getting angry at the people with concerns is the exact wrong response. Yes, we can ignore and delete the E-mail, but that's not the point. We didn't sign up for this club to have "amazing new offers" dropped on us. It probably isn't even all that amazing, just a standard insurance package with a shiny new wrapper. There's no big perk to getting Nationwide insurance through the AACA--membership doesn't have any benefits to the average guy. Nationwide is going to treat us like rubes, marks to be taken, just as any insurance company would. This is a one-way street as far as the general membership is concerned. The $100,000 coming into the club's coffers won't matter to the vast majority of members. It probably wasn't a money grab, but it sure looks and smells like one, and objections to it are being met a response akin to, "We did our homework, we made the right decision, we got lots of money, tough shiat. Like it or lump it." THAT is what is upsetting people.

 

As I said, I know running a club like this is tough. I can only imagine the large number of whining complaints you get from guys with garages full of toy cars every time you raise membership dues. I know the headaches that come from trying to keep quality up and costs down. I totally get it. Just don't treat us like fools for objecting to the methodology that was used in this case, or for objecting to being told that it's your way or the highway.

 

 

Edited July 23, 2016 by Matt Harwood (see edit history)

[Matt Harwood]

30 minutes ago, MCHinson said:

At the risk of further inflaming this issue, I am a bit confused. I keep seeing comments about AACA "selling member's information". I don't see any sign of that happening. From Steve's explanation, Nationwide entered into a contract for specific limited use of AACA's database in exchange for financial contributions to AACA. That database was used for an email to offer discounts to AACA members. I will follow up on this opportunity with my Nationwide Agent and see if I can save some money. The method of using the database is through "Constant Contact" software. My church and my daughter's high school both use this same method to send me email so I don't have a lot of fear of abuse through Constant Contact. I was able to unsubscribe from emails from the Church's youth group when my daughter aged out of that program recently.

 

When the "Member's Album" program happened, it did involve several emails, which was perhaps mildly annoying, but was not a major problem. Hopefully the Nationwide offer will not involve too many emails. 

 

Someone previously posted that AACA requires you to have an email address on file. I know that the application does have a blank for email address (which is a fairly recent addition) but I know that it is not mandatory as I am aware of one local Chapter Member who recently joined without an email listed as he does not have an email address. I am happy that AACA has my email address. I receive the Speedster email and enjoy reading it. If you don't want AACA to have your email address, it is rather simple. Don't give it to them, or ask them to delete it from their records. I am sure that the staff would be happy to address your concerns. Hopefully the relatively small number of members who are upset about this issue can contact the office and have their email address removed from the database.

 

Contact Steve or members of the board if you feel compelled to complain about the decision to enter into this contract.  Hopefully, we can get back to having more fun on the forum discussing old cars instead of spending time debating this program endlessly.       

 

 

Again, kind of missing the point. It isn't that we're getting the E-mails, its that the club is doing deals like this at all. Some of us don't feel comfortable with it and we didn't sign up for the club thinking we'd be getting these sweet, sweet deals from outside vendors. And yes, "entering into a contract for specific limited use of AACA's database in exchange for financial contributions to AACA" most definitely IS selling member's information. The point isn't that my information was sold, it's that the folks in charge decided that it would be OK to do it. A subtle but important difference. If I punch my wife and she gets a black eye, the eye will heal and leave no trace of the wound. Was it still wrong for me to hit her in the first place?

 

We're not angry that there's one extra E-mail to delete. We're upset that our personal information is for sale through an organization we trusted not to do that and which we believed had no need to pursue such deals. If the club is in such financial dire straits, then perhaps the membership should know about it. Hell, raise annual dues $10 and it'll more than cover the money that Nationwide is kicking in and it'll be in perpetuity...

 

Any of you guys with toy cars out there unable to afford another $10?

[W_Higgins]

46 minutes ago, MCHinson said:

At the risk of further inflaming this issue, I am a bit confused. I keep seeing comments about AACA "selling member's information". I don't see any sign of that happening. From Steve's explanation, Nationwide entered into a contract for specific limited use of AACA's database in exchange for financial contributions to AACA.

 

Semantics.

 

 

[60FlatTop]

I joined the AACA because I like this forum and want to support it and I wanted to be eligible to put my car in the Eastern Nationals in Buffalo, whatever year that was. Although I look at the Forum every day, I just forget to renew and I know I should. If it was 10 bucks more I'd never know. I'll get to it this week.

For someone like me who has been involved in car clubs all their life the, the three pages generated so far have been rather comical and predictable of a big section of the hobbyists. A friend who was not into group participation used to ask me why I went to meetings with that bunch of "old stiffs". I always laughed because it was so appropriate.

I think Nationwide should have been given the list of members in arrears of dues first. They could have used the savings to get caught up... me included. Although I saw the offer and ignored it.

 

While reading, I kind of wondered why a forum member who worked for Nationwide hasn't contributed. I bet someone at corporate is going to be on the carpet Monday morning. Ahh, the innocence of corporate marketing. "Don't you know anything about men over 60?/" "Gee boss, there was nothing about this in my marketing class. I thought older gentlemen on a fixed income would jump at the chance of saving."

 

If you are not getting a chuckle out of all this you are probably missing out on a lot of other stuff too. How can I NOT tell my wife about this at supper tonight. Lighten up. Hey, think about the next meeting if you did this for your own local chapter. I bet a certain person comes right to mind.

Bernie

[vermontboy]

Merriam-Webster

 

"Sell -  to exchange (something) for money"

 

Hard to spin it as anything but selling when it's in black and white.

[Bhigdog]

If you use a computer you should have NO expectation of "privacy". If you join a club or affinity group you should have NO expectation of "privacy". If you Google ANYTHING you should  expect to see endless pop up ads for said ANYTHING. The AACA is merely being, along with nearly everyone else, pimped out and mined for data. I would prefer the AACA not succumb to the lure of easy money but I realize if it wasn't them it would only be someone else.

Every day I send someone to my blocked sender list. Regretfully the AACA and Nationwide will most likely join the rest of the folks that are fishing for money in my persona non grata file..............Bob 

 

[AJFord54]

Good God - This whole discussion is perfectly representative of why the youth of our country are not members of AACA.  Sorry, but you sound like a bunch of cranky old men.  My last meeting of our local chapter - about 7 or 8 years ago consisted of two members shouting at one another.  We had a new member join us that night - never to be heard from again.  I walked away and haven't been to one of their senior citizen's meetings again.

 

I signed up my 32 year old daughter with the AACA last month.  Do any of you really think she will find an ounce of common purpose when these "old fart" (sorry I totally dislike that description or word - but it fits) discussions take place?  

 

Steve - great idea - wrong club.  Maybe retract the list and have them publish it and let those interested respond.  

Edited July 23, 2016 by AJFord54 (see edit history)

[John_S_in_Penna]

22 minutes ago, AJFord54 said:

Good God - This whole discussion is perfectly representative of why the youth of our country are not members of AACA.  Sorry, but you sound like a bunch of cranky old men.  

 

Not all of us are old, and I think this discussion is principled.

There are good points made on both sides of the 

discussion, but I see the breach-of-trust issue as

the main driving force behind the objections.

 

If it was simply an open OPPORTUNITY for members

to contact a vendor--especially a car-related one--

with AACA getting a stated commission but without

their selling the e-mail addresses, I think most people

wouldn't object.

 

I don't suppose AACA sold OTHER data, or projected data,

such as estimated age, sex, estimated income, did they?

"Our members own an average of X cars valued at

$YYYYY and have an estimated average net worth of $ZZZZZZZ.

What a great opportunity for you, Nationwide!"

Edited July 23, 2016 by John_S_in_Penna (see edit history)

[Bleach]

[trimacar]

You know, I started this fit hit the shan, and I swore to myself a couple of posts ago I'd keep quiet.  Fat chance.  And yes, I'm overweight, but I'm working on it.

 

Here's what I think (surprise, surprise).  If we were dealing with JC Taylor, Hagerty, Grundy, we'd  know what the stated premiums are, and if we say a "10%" discount, we'd know EXACTLY how we benefit.

 

Not so with general insurance, whether it be Nationwide is On Your Side (chuckle), State Farm, any of the big guys.  Their quotes are fluid and based on so many factors, including our ignorance, that it's hard to pin down.

 

THAT'S what I'm objecting to in this thread, that AACA is, for literally minor dollars per member, putting us at risk by endorsing an insurance company for covering other than old cars.

 

Of the tens of thousands of members of AACA, how many view the forums?  A very, very, small percentage.  So this conversation/thread won't even reach them, yet they'll tell their spouse (based on mailings and emails), "Hey Martha (or Jim, insert spouse name), AACA ENDORSES this insurance company, wow, they must be great and we'll never be hurt".......

 

On a  personal note, Steve, this is not a personal attack.  You've done a great job with the club.  Nor is it a personal attack on any board member.  I just believe that the membership as a whole needs to agree to what extent personal information is sold, and what companies are being made partners to further the club, and if that selling is not tolerable, then what other alternatives are available? I'd gladly pay $50 a year dues, and I bet the club wouldn't lose 1% or less of members.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited July 24, 2016 by trimacar (see edit history)

[Matt Harwood]

2 hours ago, AJFord54 said:

Good God - This whole discussion is perfectly representative of why the youth of our country are not members of AACA.  Sorry, but you sound like a bunch of cranky old men.  My last meeting of our local chapter - about 7 or 8 years ago consisted of two members shouting at one another.  We had a new member join us that night - never to be heard from again.  I walked away and haven't been to one of their senior citizen's meetings again.

 

I signed up my 32 year old daughter with the AACA last month.  Do any of you really think she will find an ounce of common purpose when these "old fart" (sorry I totally dislike that description or word - but it fits) discussions take place?  

 

Steve - great idea - wrong club.  Maybe retract the list and have them publish it and let those interested respond.  

 

Says the guy hiding behind a pseudonym...

 

Digital security is important. Just because you don't care doesn't mean it's not important. As the victim of identity theft, it can wreck your life if someone gets some data they shouldn't have. It matters. A lot of people don't see why they should care, but I bet exactly none of you are willing to publish your Social Security number and your home address here, are you? Why is that? Because you don't know who will get that information or what they'll do with it? Because you value your privacy? Because personal information should remain personal? There are a million good reasons not to give out personal information to strangers. I honestly can't think of a good one in favor of it.

 

What if the AACA decided to publish the membership roster online, so anyone with a computer could have your name, address, and phone number, plus the cars you own, all at their digital fingertips. Would you care then?

 

Sorry you don't care and that this is a stupid discussion. You probably should care. And if a newcomer is scared away from the AACA because members are saying, "Hey, don't sell our private information to a corporation!" well, I don't think I want that moron as a member anyway.

Edited July 24, 2016 by Matt Harwood (see edit history)

[trimacar]

A post that reminds me, yeah, I'm a cranky old man, an old fart....so the youngsters can ignore or laugh...but with 65 years of real life experience, I'm wrong a lot less now than when I was 21...

[AJFord54]

 

 

Quote

What if the AACA decided to publish the membership roster online, so anyone with a computer could have your name, address, and phone number, plus the cars you own, all at their digital fingertips. Would you care then?

But they didn't!!!  They simply provided your e-mail to a party with proper documentation that would prevent it from being sold or misused with the thought that it might benefit us.

 

And, I might add:  Perhaps you should read your own website's disclaimer on how you might use information.  Read it carefully.  You might be surprised.

 

To answer your question regarding my "pseudonym":  

 

My name is Andrew Jochum, Jr.  I am from Jamestown, NY.  Yes, Mr. Harwood - Jamestown, NY.   You certainly know Jamestown, NY.  I am not hiding from anyone.  I am proud to be an AACA 20+ year member and contribute my thoughts.  I stand by my post and support for the decision.  You or anyone else  that might want my e-mail and telephone number - pm me!  How dare you post "hiding under a pseudonym".  Everyone reading this, regardless of their stance on this issue should be offended.  Most of us are here to enjoy the forum, not do business.  We pick a name that is to our liking.  We don't hide.  

 

And, for the record:   "You don't want that moron as a member" ?  Want to explain that to everyone?  Your club?  No sir - "Our Club".

Quote

Sorry you don't care and that this is a stupid discussion. You probably should care. And if a newcomer is scared away from the AACA because members are saying, "Hey, don't sell our private information to a corporation!" well, I don't think I want that moron as a member anyway.

 

Edited July 24, 2016 by AJFord54 (see edit history)

[padgett]

This is hilarious all of the jousting and diving and misinformation. The problem here is simple: as far as I can tell, the AACA does not have a privacy policy. If there is not any policy then "abandon all hope" (and have no expectation of privacy).

 

This has been a concern since the last millennia and is why such organizations as the EFF exist. Since at least 1989 when Addison Fisher presented at the National Security Conference in Baltimore, the accepted means of enforcing that expectation on the Internet has been encryption. Some web sites care (e.g. those using Secure Shell Layer and you see "https://" in the URL (whether the encryption in use is any good is a whole 'nother subject).

 

 Now the fact is that entering an e-mail is one of the asterisked (mandatory) items on the online membership application form. I am sure there is a way for someone to join without one  but not online.

 

But the bottom line is that everyone here was willing to join and provide an eMail address without being advised of a privacy policy (or even if one exists) so no-one has any recourse whatever the AACA decides to do with the database. If it matters, you can always send a registered letter to the AACA (best written by a lawyer) advising them to remove any reference to you. Doubt that it will have any effect but you can do something.

Edited July 25, 2016 by padgett (see edit history)

[vermontboy]

I guess the question is why doesn't the AACA have a privacy policy. Data mining is a very real concern and to stick your head in the sand and think otherwise is foolish. We all take risks in life, but this is one that is easy to avoid.

I spent the last 20 years of my career working for the Federal government and saw how identity theft can destroy.a person's finances and reputation. An email list where reasonably accurate demographic information can be surmised is a very useful tool.

I would hope that the AACA management would look into this a bit rather than sweeping it under the table. Some kind of statement in regards as to whether they anticipate developing a privacy policy would be helpful.to many of us.

 

 

[W_Higgins]

Another consideration here is how non-profits make their money.  501(c)(3)'s can come under intense scrutiny by the government if they are perceived as "branching out" into the private sector.  If this is the new way of doing things, the club would do well to take some of this money they've raised and hire an independent third-party firm to perform a compliance audit to ensure the health of the club going forward.

 

If you think long established non-profits are immune, ask the Horseless Carriage Club.  The government is also looking for money anywhere they can find it.  

[John348]

I must wonder if this group discount was for a major auto parts retailer would this thread even exist?

[John_S_in_Penna]

2 minutes ago, John348 said:

I must wonder if this group discount was for a major auto parts retailer would this thread even exist?

 

If it were simply making AVAILABLE discounts to members,

and commissions for A.A.C.A., it would be fine.

But if they unexpectedly gave away our e-mail addresses,

no matter what commercial entity the recipient was, it would be improper.

After all, with our on-line roster, we are told it is not for commercial use.

Edited July 24, 2016 by John_S_in_Penna (see edit history)

[John348]

21 minutes ago, John_S_in_Penna said:

 

If it were simply making AVAILABLE discounts to members,

and commissions for A.A.C.A., it would be fine.

But if they unexpectedly gave away our e-mail addresses,

no matter what commercial entity the recipient was, it would be improper.

After all, with our on-line roster, we are told it is not for commercial use.

 

I guess it must be me, there are more important things to worry about in my life. None of this was done with any intention to harm anyone, but rather to help. For most of us we have had our name, address, and phone number in telephone books, for years and it was never a problem. As well as most people here I am in other clubs and have seen those other clubs move in reverse with services offered to the membership as the dues have increased, The AACA has improved in every area while not really having to increase dues. It takes a creative and dedicated BOD to do that.

Maybe I don't understand something here, but I really do not see the need to make such a big deal over this 

[padgett]

"Maybe I don't understand something here, but I really do not see the need to make such a big deal over this"

 

You are correct. However if you spent over thirty years dealing with encryption,  computer and  IP (intellectual property) security, NDAs, and electronic access controls for both the government and large contractors you might feel differently. Due Care is a very important concept and even a 501(c)3 can get into a lot of trouble for not considering privacy.

 

 

Edited July 25, 2016 by padgett (see edit history)

[Terry Wiegand]

I'm going to have to agree with John Mahoney on this.  There simply is not a good reason to make a big deal out of this.  There are several on here that have really got their shorts in a wad. We are living in the digital age my friends.  There is no such thing as privacy anymore.  Read that again - THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS PRIVACY ANYMORE.  Any time that any of us click on a website our email address is captured.  It is as simple as that folks.  We have had Nationwide automobile insurance for going on six years.  They have treated us very good rate-wise.  I talked with our agent the other day about this program and she told me that when it goes into effect we will get a rate adjustment at that time.  We are happier than two jaybirds in a mulberry patch.  Anything that anybody does that is going to save us money will be told 'Bring It On'.  An email address can be found for anyone who has one in the blink of an eye.  Now, Social Security numbers, credit card information, drivers license numbers, etc. is a horse of a different color.  I do not believe for one second that the AACA Board of Directors did or would divulge that kind of personal information for anything.  Like the one guy said, "Lighten Up", set back and enjoy the ride.  I personally have bigger things to worry about than someone getting my email address and you guys out there should feel the same way - it will do marvelous things for your blood pressure.

 

Terry Wiegand

South Hutchinson, Kansas

terrywiegand@prodigy.net

AACA Member since 1973

AACA Life Member since 1988

 

[capngrog]

28 minutes ago, Terry Wiegand said:

THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS PRIVACY ANYMORE.  Any time that any of us click on a website our email address is captured.    An email address can be found for anyone who has one in the blink of an eye.  Now, Social Security numbers, credit card information, drivers license numbers, etc. is a horse of a different color.  I do not believe for one second that the AACA Board of Directors did or would divulge that kind of personal information for anything. 

 

 

Terry,

 

You are correct in that there is no expectation of privacy on the internet.  The only way to achieve RELATIVE PRIVACY is to remain below the "radar screen".  To us ordinary folks, this can only be done by being just an "averaqe" user of the internet; however, there are certainly no guarantees.  To have one's email address sold to a major corporate entity can only increase the chance of that email address becoming an active "blip" on the radar screen of scammers and hackers.  The more closely held one's information, i.e. email address, the less chance of access by scammers and hackers.  There is no other defense.  Anything can be hacked!  As you stated above:  "An email address can be found for anyone who has one in the blink of eye."  That being the case, why did Nationwide pay so much money for the AACA email list?  One reason would be that generic information, if not specific personal information, was included in the deal. 

 

With that said, I really don't care about the sale of email addresses; however, I'm bothered by the awkward attempts to spin the deal ("donations, financial contributions etc.).

 

I could go on and on about this, but I won't,

Grog

[John348]

52 minutes ago, helfen said:

Thank you for telling some of us how we should feel.

 

But aren't you and a few others telling us how we should feel angry about this? Like I said maybe it is me, but I don't think there is no need to make big deal about this. As I pointed out Myself, Terry and a few others have no problem using our full real name when we post, I don't see a problem with that either. I could care less and if I can save a few bucks I will even be happier.

 

52 minutes ago, helfen said:

This afternoon a good friend who is working on a 40 Ford deluxe called and asked if I knew so and so's phone number who also has a restored 40. I said I sure do, but I'll have to call him first to see if he's OK with me giving it out. What the hell's wrong with using manners ??

I guess I have different car friends, If one of my friends got mad that I gave out their number to another guy in the hobby in need of help they would not be my friend much longer. I have been a tech advisor for the VCCA for 30 years and my name, address, phone number, and email have been out there for over 30 years. I made some great friends. I am sure some don't understand why I am so free with my information

 

52 minutes ago, helfen said:

 

Do you understand? 

To be honest, while I respect your opinion, I really don't understand it at all

 

 

1 hour ago, padgett said:

"Maybe I don't understand something here, but I really do not see the need to make such a big deal over this"

 

You are correct. However if you spent over thirty years dealing with encryption,  computer and  IP (intellectual property) security, NDAs, and electronic access controls for both the government and large contractors you might feel differently. Due Care is a very important concept and even a 501(c)3 can get into a lot of trouble for not considering privacy.

 

 

 

Mr. P thank-you for agreeing that there is no need to make a big deal over this,

Edited July 25, 2016 by John348 (see edit history)

[60FlatTop]

I read every entry yesterday. Today I am just scanning through the recent ones looking for the names of the people who make me smile most.

 

Security is a very important factor. A guy stole my identity a while ago and I absolutely refused to take it back, even though he pleaded. I heard he committed suicide a few days later. Be careful who you take information from.

 

Looking at it from a business standpoint, I would budget 6% to advertising and direct sales. I would be comfortable laying out 3% of my potential gross for a valid list of potential buyers. For 25G's I would target about $850,000 in sales. If I broke a million I would come back and drop another 8 to 10K. Am agent with a three or more million dollar accounts could do that.

 

I provide services at 2.4 cents per square foot. I pay a bird dog commission of $200 per 100,000 square feet. The math is about the same.

 

Bernie

 

 

[John348]

18 hours ago, helfen said:

 John, If AACA ask you if they can give your information to Nationwide and if you do that's OK with me.  If AACA should ask me and I say no it has nothing to do with you.  Now how is that telling you how you should feel? That's fair for the yay and nay.  Now if AACA just does it without permission it maybe ok with you and you think it should be for anyone else but I don't think it's right and it's one sided-there is no choice in the matter  so do you understand now?  

 My friend with the 40 Ford does not know this other guy very well, and vise versa.  It's common courtesy to ask someone if I can give my friend his number and anything else is considered pushing in and a breach of trust. There are lots of car guy's around here that are very private about their cars and their shops. It's just a different part of the world. I hope you understand.  

 Fair enough, as always I respect your opinions, however this time I just don't share the same emotions toward them.

all the best

Edited July 26, 2016 by John348 (see edit history)

[60FlatTop]

There is a difference between people and entities. A friend of a friend is a whole different relationship. I created a legal entity, but I like my kids better. It takes horse sense, a cool head, and a keen eye to cultivate that difference.

Bernie

[Bhigdog]

1 hour ago, 60FlatTop said:

It takes horse sense

 

Just for the record a horse is about as smart as a chicken. I know because I keep both ...................Bob

Edited July 26, 2016 by Bhigdog
My name isn't Both. Aren't ya'll glad you can paw through my edit's. Isn't it a wonderful feature? (see edit history)

[Bhigdog]

Yo! I felt left out because my Email address wasn't pimped out to Nationwide Ins Co. Well I should have been patient. Just a few minutes ago I was informed that I was SPECIAL. And was going to get a SPECIAL discount available ONLY to me since I was an AACA member. I felt so good because I found out that they (Nationwide) "CARED ABOUT ME". Well golley gee. I never would have figured that.

I sure hope the AACA keeps pimping me out but only to folks that "CARE ABOUT ME". I wouldn't be very happy if my personal info was sold to someone who didn't "CARE ABOUT ME"

So keep up the average work guys. Maybe next time you can supply my info to a porn site or two. I hear they pay real well and "CARE ABOUT ME"..........Bob

 

 

[A. Ballard 35R]

I just received the email and contacted them because I could not receive an online quote. Asked the agent what the discount was for this special Nationwide deal and was told 3% !!!

[Bhigdog]

1 hour ago, A. Ballard 35R said:

I just received the email and contacted them because I could not receive an online quote. Asked the agent what the discount was for this special Nationwide deal and was told 3% !!!

 

 That's because you're "SPECIAL"...............Bob

[MCHinson]

I stopped by my Nationwide agent's office today and had them apply the AACA discount. The AACA program is now saving me $27.80 per year. I have no objection at all to the program. It is not a lot of money, but that is a pretty good percentage of the cost of a year's membership in AACA.

[60FlatTop]

3 hours ago, Bhigdog said:

 only to folks that "CARE ABOUT ME". I wouldn't be very happy if my personal info was sold to someone who didn't "CARE ABOUT ME"

So keep up the average work guys. Maybe next time you can supply my info to a porn site or two. I hear they pay real well and "CARE ABOUT ME"..........Bob

 

 

nbineR

Quote

Reminds me of "Trust me". Back in the early 1990's I had a Jewish patent attorney write two U.S. patents with me. During the long hours of writing the text "Trust me" came up. He said, while eating an Italian sub, "You know that's a Yiddish term." We didn't have Google then so he told me the origin. Today you can Google it. You'll smile, trust me.

Bernie

 

[W_Higgins]

Yesterday I visited our local historical society to do some research.  It was my first time there.  Rather than be a piker and pay the $5 per day research fee I paid the whopping $35 for a membership.  They don't have the revenue stream the AACA has and they were beyond appreciative for what seemed like not enough to pay their electric bill for opening up that day.

 

What blew me away is that as I was filling out their simple membership form, the guy stopped me to explain (in a very serious tone) that they don't sell email addresses, phone numbers, or anything else and that if anyone did call there asking to contact me, that they would call me and ask if they could pass out my information rather than just doing it on their own.  I couldn't believe it.  All of this unprompted.  I could have sworn they were reading this thread.

 

Twenty minutes later the groups secretary came down from upstairs with a packet of welcome stuff and launched into the same routine.  Apparently it's quite an issue for them.... and they actually have a position on it.

 

So, when is the AACA going to come out with an official policy or statement so we know the score going forward?  Are you going to keep selling our information or give us the option to opt-out?  The opportunity has been here for days.  It's kind of laughable that the officials with their heads buried in the sand have "leadership" listed on their Linkedin profiles.

 

 

[vermontboy]

It is both laughable and, unfortunately, a deal breaker. If no Privacy policy is written when it is time to renew I will not be back. They simply have no comprehension how serious the complications can be and apparently don't care.

[Bhigdog]

35 minutes ago, vermontboy said:

and apparently don't care.

 

I've said for years that "management" is insular and the first reaction to constructive suggestion or criticism is to circle the wagons and stone wall. They say, almost with pride, that the directors don't have time to read the forum or respond to it. A fair question might be:  If the directors don't have time to interact with the members why did they agree to take a job that requires understanding the needs of the member ship?

Well, ( with apologies to Popeye) it is what it is and that's all what it is. .............Bob

Edited July 29, 2016 by Bhigdog
Correcting Popeye paraphrase (see edit history)

[vermontboy]

" I mentioned earlier thread #67 of how this works. You quote a person you want to answer a question and if they want a question or statement to die they lay low and don't say anything hoping it will go away. I've seen this done on many topics here."

 

And come renewal time they will wonder what happened.

[padgett]

Well just don't let it die. Maybe if some major privacy organizations call...