Vintagecarguy Posted April 30, 2015 Share Posted April 30, 2015 (edited) A friend of my grandfather has been telling us for years that GM car's from the early to mid-1930s had chassis made of wood and then were boxed in by metal? But my grandfather has also heard that 1920s GM cars were the same way. My question is, is there any truth to this? Thanks in advance. Vintagecarguy. Edited April 30, 2015 by Vintagecarguy (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
50jetback Posted April 30, 2015 Share Posted April 30, 2015 Well Chevy IS a GM car and yes, all cars were originally bodied with a wooden frame/metal covered body.Diagram of the woodwork/frame of a mid 30's Fisher body attached. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vintagecarguy Posted April 30, 2015 Author Share Posted April 30, 2015 Well Chevy IS a GM car and yes, all cars were originally bodied with a wooden frame/metal covered body.Diagram of the woodwork/frame of a mid 30's Fisher body attached.50jetback, would this apply to the chassi of the car, too? That's what I meant by frame. Sorry for the confusion. Thank you for the information. Vintagecarguy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarlLaFong Posted April 30, 2015 Share Posted April 30, 2015 No, the frames were steel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rusty_OToole Posted April 30, 2015 Share Posted April 30, 2015 (edited) In the early days all cars had bodies made with a wooden framework covered with metal panels tacked on. Starting in the twenties, more and more metal was used by some makers. General Motors was one of the last companies to go to all steel bodies, except for some luxury car makers like Rolls Royce, Packard and Pierce Arrow. This was related to the high cost of tooling for the small number of cars they produced.Here is an article that shows how the metal panels were formed and fitted to the wooden frame to make a Rolls Royce touring car body.http://theoldmotor.com/?p=80128 Edited April 30, 2015 by Rusty_OToole (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
50jetback Posted April 30, 2015 Share Posted April 30, 2015 Some very early car manufacturers ( Brush comes to mind ) did use wood in the chassis but I think by the teens all manufacturers would have been using steel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rusty_OToole Posted April 30, 2015 Share Posted April 30, 2015 Franklin cars had wood chassis frames up to 1933 or 34. They were the last to stick with this type of construction. Most other cars used steel chassis from the very beginning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vintagecarguy Posted April 30, 2015 Author Share Posted April 30, 2015 No, the frames were steel50jetback, Thank you again. Would this apply to the 1920s cars as well? Thank you again. Vintagecarguy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert G. Smits Posted April 30, 2015 Share Posted April 30, 2015 Research the Budd Co. They were one of the early manufacturing companies to produce all steel bodies beginning in the early teens. Yes, GM was one of the last to change. Bob Smits Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerryB Posted April 30, 2015 Share Posted April 30, 2015 Morgan autos in England is still producing cars with wooden (ash) body framework and aluminum skin.Terry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vintagecarguy Posted April 30, 2015 Author Share Posted April 30, 2015 How would I go about checking the wood in the body of a closed 1920s car? How can I tell if the wood is in good shape? Thanks again to everyone. Vintagecarguy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Restorer32 Posted April 30, 2015 Share Posted April 30, 2015 Open each door and try to lift it. Chances are the wood in the car needs at least some attention. What make car are you thinking about? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vintagecarguy Posted April 30, 2015 Author Share Posted April 30, 2015 Open each door and try to lift it. Chances are the wood in the car needs at least some attention. What make car are you thinking about?Restorer32, Thanks for the reply. The car we're looking at is a 1924 Oldsmobile Model 30 "Opera" coupe. The exterior of the car was apparently restored in the early 1990's and it does look that way. I'll have to take a close look at the wood. How should I check the wood in the rest of the body? Is just a visual inspection okay? Thanks again. Vintagecarguy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Restorer32 Posted April 30, 2015 Share Posted April 30, 2015 Just poke around with a screw driver, especially near any joints. Also check the roof bows by sighting along the roof line front to back and side to side. If the roof appears sunken the bows are likely bad. Bear in mind that at the factory the wood was assembled first then the sheet metal was tacked in place, with most of the fasteners being under the metal skin of the body, meaning that you can't simply replace wood without disassembling the body. There are various products said to "restore" rotted wood. We have no experience with those. If there is rot it most likely is in the "sills" that run front to back at the bottom of the body or in the roof bows. Especially check the door post to sill joints. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hudsy Wudsy Posted April 30, 2015 Share Posted April 30, 2015 No, the frames were steelUnfortunately your local scrap yard would insist that it's sheet iron. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vintagecarguy Posted April 30, 2015 Author Share Posted April 30, 2015 Just poke around with a screw driver, especially near any joints. Also check the roof bows by sighting along the roof line front to back and side to side. If the roof appears sunken the bows are likely bad. Bear in mind that at the factory the wood was assembled first then the sheet metal was tacked in place, with most of the fasteners being under the metal skin of the body, meaning that you can't simply replace wood without disassembling the body. There are various products said to "restore" rotted wood. We have no experience with those. If there is rot it most likely is in the "sills" that run front to back at the bottom of the body or in the roof bows. Especially check the door post to sill joints.Restorer32, thank you for the advice. I will definitely have to try these things out when I see the car again. Thank you. Vintagecarguy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nzcarnerd Posted April 30, 2015 Share Posted April 30, 2015 If you have not already seen it there is a brief history of Fisher Body here - http://www.coachbuilt.com/bui/f/fisher/fisher.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 30, 2015 Share Posted April 30, 2015 A friend of my grandfather has been telling us for years that GM car's from the early to mid-1930s had chassis made of wood and then were boxed in by metal? But my grandfather has also heard that 1920s GM cars were the same way. My question is, is there any truth to this? Thanks in advance. Vintagecarguy. Your 1936 and back is incorrect and should read 1934 and back as GM cars are all steel in 1935 and forward sans station wagons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keiser31 Posted April 30, 2015 Share Posted April 30, 2015 Your 1936 and back is incorrect and should read 1934 and back as GM cars are all steel in 1935 and forward sans station wagons.Actually, it's more like this quote from Coachbuilt. "Fisher and GM continued to use wood framing in all their cars until the 1937 model year. Fred and Charles Fisher, the company pioneers, left GM in 1934. Immediately after their retirement, Fisher Division began converting to all-steel bodies. It took until 1937 to get the wood out." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hudsy Wudsy Posted April 30, 2015 Share Posted April 30, 2015 I can only speak to Chevrolets, specifically, but at some point beyond the middle of the 1936 model year, the bodies became all steel. I've inquired about a definitive serial number point at which the change took place, but no one seems to know. Perhaps someone over at the Chevrolet Club would know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 30, 2015 Share Posted April 30, 2015 1935 and beyond Pontiac's use the all steel "turret top", and Pontiac shares the "A" body with Chevrolet and the "B" body with Olds and Buick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olympic Posted May 2, 2015 Share Posted May 2, 2015 Franklins had wooden chassis frames through 1927. In 1928 only the short wheelbase Franklin had the laminated ash frames, the larger cars had steel. By 1929 all Franklins had steel frames. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WQ59B Posted May 2, 2015 Share Posted May 2, 2015 The thread is a bit 'split', with some talking about wood-framed BODIES and the O/P and others talking about wooden FRAMES/CHASSIS's.Hard to imagine a wooden framed car lasting very long, esp with the axle-deep mudpies that commonly were called 'roads' in the early days.I too heard someone once claim early cars had wooden frames but was never able to ID any, so thanks for the Franklin reference.Here's a 1904 Buick frame, it's obviously steel : https://buickman2.files.wordpress.com/2008/12/buick1904chassis.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curti Posted May 2, 2015 Share Posted May 2, 2015 I can only speak to Chevrolets, specifically, but at some point beyond the middle of the 1936 model year, the bodies became all steel. I've inquired about a definitive serial number point at which the change took place, but no one seems to know. Perhaps someone over at the Chevrolet Club would know.I concur with this statement. Chevrolet changed over to steel bodies in MID 1936. I think the reason that serial numbers are hard to pin down is there were multiple assembly plants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rusty_OToole Posted May 2, 2015 Share Posted May 2, 2015 I have the idea that for a time the cheaper Chevs had the wood framing and the more expensive ones were all steel. At least when they went to the all steel turret top roof, the cheaper ones kept the insert roof for one year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Roth Posted May 3, 2015 Share Posted May 3, 2015 Franklin cars had wood chassis frames up to 1933 or 34. They were the last to stick with this type of construction. Most other cars used steel chassis from the very beginning.Yes, as I recall, my 1917 Franklin Model 9-A Touring had a wood chassis (frame).It was laminated second-growth ash , as memory serves. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hudsy Wudsy Posted May 4, 2015 Share Posted May 4, 2015 I don't know enough about GM cars to contribute a lot here, but I think that in 1935 Chevrolet continued to use the '34 body on the "Standard" models, while the "Master" models came with the newer (turret top) body. The turret top body still continued to be metal wrapped around wood until that midpoint of '36 that I previously mentioned. That same '35 Master body (perhaps in more modern terms, the "B" body) is, I think, one of the most beautiful sedan bodies of the pre war era. I think it's first appearance was in the '34 Cadillac LaSalle. There it still had a one piece windshield. I don't recall if an outside trunk was an option yet or not:Here it is in a '35 LaSalle, this time with a two piece windshield and an outside trunk and no front suicide doors:Here's a '35 Chevrolet Master:A '35 Pontiac:A '35 Olds:GM continued to use that body in '36, but made the front doors rear opening. I'm not obsessed with suicide doors usually, but I think that they really add to this particular bodies handsome looks. For some reason, Cadillac and Buick didn't use the new body for '35, but, it appears, continued to use the same body (with the fabric roof insert) that they used in '34. I'm not a GM expert, so if I've made a mistake here, please correct me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TimothyTello Posted May 4, 2015 Share Posted May 4, 2015 Yes, they are right. Initially the cars come in the same way a wooden chassis with metal body. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
60FlatTop Posted May 4, 2015 Share Posted May 4, 2015 How would I go about checking the wood in the body of a closed 1920s car? How can I tell if the wood is in good shape? Thanks again to everyone. Vintagecarguy.Take a handful of these guys with you and look for this response: Bernie 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 4, 2015 Share Posted May 4, 2015 I don't know enough about GM cars to contribute a lot here, but I think that in 1935 Chevrolet continued to use the '34 body on the "Standard" models, while the "Master" models came with the newer (turret top) body. The turret top body still continued to be metal wrapped around wood until that midpoint of '36 that I previously mentioned. That same '35 Master body (perhaps in more modern terms, the "B" body) is, I think, one of the most beautiful sedan bodies of the pre war era. I think it's first appearance was in the '34 Cadillac LaSalle. There it still had a one piece windshield. I don't recall if an outside trunk was an option yet or not:Here it is in a '35 LaSalle, this time with a two piece windshield and an outside trunk and no front suicide doors:Here's a '35 Chevrolet Master:A '35 Pontiac:A '35 Olds:GM continued to use that body in '36, but made the front doors rear opening. I'm not obsessed with suicide doors usually, but I think that they really add to this particular bodies handsome looks. For some reason, Cadillac and Buick didn't use the new body for '35, but, it appears, continued to use the same body (with the fabric roof insert) that they used in '34. I'm not a GM expert, so if I've made a mistake here, please correct me. That 1935 Pontiac ( second to the last picture) is a all steel car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearsFan315 Posted May 4, 2015 Share Posted May 4, 2015 Yes, my 1929 Chevrolet has a steel Chassis, with a Wooden Structure take a look here and you can see the wood as there is NO interior in these pictures. 1929 Chevrolet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarlLaFong Posted May 4, 2015 Share Posted May 4, 2015 Yes, they are right. Initially the cars come in the same way a wooden chassis with metal body. NO!!!!They, and you, are wrong. GM cars NEVER used wooden frames (chassis). The frame have always been steel. Start to end. Bodies were wood frame, metal skinned composite structrures until the mid 30s when they went to all steel construction, as stated in this thread. Please check your facts before making false statements. It just muddies up the waters even worse 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hudsy Wudsy Posted May 4, 2015 Share Posted May 4, 2015 Quote: "That 1935 Pontiac ( second to the last picture) is a all steel." Perhaps the gradual conversion over to all metal bodies started with more premium nameplates, but it could also have been at different times in different factories (I'm talking through my hat there. I don't know if GM had different factories at that time). I had a '36 Master Sedan with doors that wobbled, and later a '36 Master five window which some prior owner had installed a hockey stick in the driver's door for strength. After that I began to admire Chrysler Products! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Dobbin Posted May 4, 2015 Share Posted May 4, 2015 How would I go about checking the wood in the body of a closed 1920s car? How can I tell if the wood is in good shape? Thanks again to everyone. Vintagecarguy.Vintagecarguy,With old General Motors cars, the best thing to look at are the doors and door posts. The usual place for wood rot is at the bottom of the doors and the bottom of the door posts or around where hinges are attached. Because water enters from the window openings, the bottom of the doors themselves can rot away, which in turn makes the doors fit badly. Another place to check is where the top material is attached and the seam between the fabric and metal. It's all tacked to the wooden body structure, if it rots here, it could be everywhere. If all fits well and no droop, it could be good wood. Check the drain holes in the bottom of the doors, you should be able to see the wood.Even Buick used wooden body frames thru 1935. I put half a National Forest in mine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Restorer32 Posted May 5, 2015 Share Posted May 5, 2015 We rewooded an L 29 Cord conv coupe. It had 103 individual pieces of wood in it, not counting the doors or the rumble seat lid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1929 pontiac coupe man Posted September 25, 2018 Share Posted September 25, 2018 except he left out a few details all cars from the beginning to about early to almost 1934 were all basically the same structure metal frame including the fenders and bumpers radiator shell have a wood structure made and finished clamps jigs with glue bolts and screws once done the sheet metal was applied with mails and screws and seams were lead filled smoothed sanded primed and painted including fenders then bolted to frame as one complete unit this why so many people have so much trouble now restoring these beauties but i should point out that there were some cars that had wood frames and wood bodies the only metal were bumpers engine radiators it is amazing these cars were well made strong and dependable and wow when you see them and works of art with wheels there lies the problem with these old cars no 2 even same cars are exactly the same they all have slight differences in length width and due to each one is unique to it's own Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PFitz Posted September 25, 2018 Share Posted September 25, 2018 On 4/29/2015 at 9:30 PM, Rusty_OToole said: Franklin cars had wood chassis frames up to 1933 or 34. They were the last to stick with this type of construction. Most other cars used steel chassis from the very beginning. 1928 Franklin short wheel base were the last of their wood chassis. Longer wheel base of that year and on until end of production in 1934, they were all steel channel chassis. Paul 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloo Posted September 25, 2018 Share Posted September 25, 2018 On 5/4/2015 at 8:40 AM, Guest said: That 1935 Pontiac ( second to the last picture) is a all steel car. I beg to differ. It is one-piece all-steel top on a wood body. My 1936 body is nearly identical, with the exception that the front doors are hung the other way. Two weeks ago I had a long conversation with a 1935 owner about his adventures replacing wood. I believe the first all-steel Pontiac was in 1937. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Dobbin Posted September 26, 2018 Share Posted September 26, 2018 On 4/30/2015 at 3:06 PM, Guest said: Your 1936 and back is incorrect and should read 1934 and back as GM cars are all steel in 1935 and forward sans station wagons. My 35 Buick Series 41 has a wood framed body as do all other 35 Buicks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nzcarnerd Posted September 26, 2018 Share Posted September 26, 2018 23 hours ago, Bloo said: I beg to differ. It is one-piece all-steel top on a wood body. My 1936 body is nearly identical, with the exception that the front doors are hung the other way. Two weeks ago I had a long conversation with a 1935 owner about his adventures replacing wood. I believe the first all-steel Pontiac was in 1937. Yes, that is true, for the GM B bodies, but I believe the bigger C bodies kept some wood in the floor (rails?) for a couple of years more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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