Should 25 year old cars really be called "Antiques"?

[JamesR]

Quote

Should 25 year old cars really be called "Antiques"?

 

That's a good question.The tableware we received as wedding gifts 30 years ago was good quality, but we never think of it as antique. (We still use the pieces that didn't break.) Same with 25-35 year old musical instruments or furniture. I can't think of many things outside of cars that qualify as antiques at that age.

 

Of course there's a cultural context for this stuff. I could see a 1949 Hudson being generally perceived as an antique or "classic" in 1974, and it would've been 25 years old at the time. If you go to 35 years old, then even more so. That's because the world (styles, products and values) changed so much in a relatively short period of time back then. A car made in 1990 isn't perceived as being nearly as ancient today as a '39 Hudson was in 1974.

[Dave Wells]

5 hours ago, 1935Packard said:

The real reason to change the "antique" definition is that cars stay on the road much longer than they used to.  Decades ago, cars, didn't last long; a car was used up after a few years.  So a 25-year-old car was several generations old, the kind of thing you rarely saw on the road anymore.  Today is different: The average car on the road today is 13 years old.    And 10% of cars on the road are 25 years old or older.   So a 25-year-old car today is just a somewhat older car, the kind of thing you see all the time, not some sort of ancient means of transportation. 

 

3 hours ago, Billy Kingsley said:

If you think 25 year old cars are daily drivers, you really have no idea how to date a car outside of your area of interest. Anything from before 2010 is a rare sight. 

 

I saw a PT cruiser on Tuesday and realized I hadn't seen one in over a year. And it's not like I've been hiding in a small portion of the country...that time period covers a drive from NY to Utah and back and another from NY to Charlotte NC and back. 

 

 

My daily driver is a '95 Jeep Cherokee with nearly 200,00 miles so far. It replaced an '89 Cherokee with 320,000 miles in 2011. My utility vehicle is a 52 year old F-100 which I bought new and have clocked over 750,000 miles (now on it's third engine). They both run 12 months a year and are fully freeway capable, but I no longer commute daily as I'm retired.  Neither is an antique as far as I'm concerned. They both are fully licensed and insured, well maintained, and in good physical condition; neither wear "antique" plates.

The super market and hardware store parking lots are full of 25+ year old vehicles. No one notices everyday "antiques". It's gotta be something with a lot of "bling" either auditory or visual to attract attention.

 

Billy: come out west sometime. Our daily drivers will knock your sox off!

re: the posting below.

 

 

[Billy Kingsley]

We just sold our 1994 Grand Cherokee last week. Last ran in 2015. I'm impressed you've been able to keep a 90s Jeep running. 

[8E45E]

13 hours ago, Walt G said:

I really wish that there were more old car gals besides old car guys.

There is Jil McIntosh in Ontario.  She writes very well-researched articles, and they are very thorough.  

 

Craig

[Peter Gariepy]

14 hours ago, Billy Kingsley said:

admit you are a date snob and be done with it. It's fine to only like a certain period of cars but don't crap on those of us who care about the history of the automobile post World War 2. 

Boom

[8E45E]

14 hours ago, Billy Kingsley said:

If you think 25 year old cars are daily drivers, you really have no idea how to date a car outside of your area of interest. Anything from before 2010 is a rare sight. 

 

I saw a PT cruiser on Tuesday and realized I hadn't seen one in over a year. And it's not like I've been hiding in a small portion of the country...that time period covers a drive from NY to Utah and back and another from NY to Charlotte NC and back. 

That's a regional comment where the bodes my not last with the excessive amount of salt used on the roads in winter; especially where you live.  Go to the western and southern states, one will see many 25 year old cars still being driven daily.  Unfortunately, it has led to abuse of the 'antique' plate rules in some of these states, notably Nevada.  Nevada’s classic vehicle plate registration rules changing Jan. 1 | Road Warrior | News | News Columns (reviewjournal.com)

 And Wyoming wants to change increase the 25 year gap to 40 years to qualify as an antique:  Wyoming 'antique' vehicles could see definition change and new annual fees - Casper, WY Oil City News

 

Craig

 

[B Jake Moran]

It's not an antique.  But the club needs to use an arbitrary number for membership, and 25 years from manufacture seems as good as any.   I would not confuse the name of the club with that meaning the club believes a 25 year old car is an antique.  

[8E45E]

4 minutes ago, B Jake Moran said:

It's not an antique.  But the club needs to use an arbitrary number for membership, and 25 years from manufacture seems as good as any.   I would not confuse the name of the club with that meaning the club believes a 25 year old car is an antique.  

The NTHSA must consider a JDM car an 'antique' as it must be 25 years or older before it can be imported into the USA.

 

Craig

[demco32]

I know it's not about antique car.

 It was voted yesterday that in Paris the cost of parking on the street will be €18 per hour for an SUV or truck.

antique cars are not allowed. 

[drhach]

I think the issue lies more with the age of the owners than the cars. If the car is an antique, what does it say about the guy who was a teenager when the car was new?

 

 

[8E45E]

26 minutes ago, drhach said:

That's only if she is too old to make that Big Wheel spin more than one revolution!

 

(Let's hear the Price Is Right "Boooooooooooooooooooooo!!!")

 

Craig

[motoringicons]

The only REAL Antique Cars are pre-1916-defined by the Horseless Carriage Club of America. 

 

The only REAL American Antiques are pre-1890. This chart below applies to American furniture and other items as well.

 

This the ONLY way I use the word "Antique".

 

 

 

Edited February 9 by motoringicons (see edit history)

[60FlatTop]

Sometimes I recognize acts of exclusivity. I just exclude them and go somewhere else.

 

Time alone with cars of my choice works fine.

[8E45E]

19 minutes ago, motoringicons said:

The only REAL Antique Cars are pre-1916-defined by the Horseless Carriage Club of America. 

 

This the ONLY way I use the word "Antique".

 

 

 

 

 

In England, their 'real' antiques are 'Edwardian' cars, made until 1904.  

 

One cannot participate in the annual Brighton Run unless they enter with an Edwardian Era car.

 

Craig

[dship]

17 minutes ago, 60FlatTop said:

Sometimes I recognize acts of exclusivity. I just exclude them and go somewhere else.

 

Time alone with cars of my choice works fine.

My sentiments exactly. 

[dodge28]

 Cars 25 years old and older imported into Canada are exempt from certain taxes.  Some imported from across the pond  have to meet certain standard  like bumper height,  etc.  Cars over 25 years old  should be special interest cars. Special models.

[Pfeil]

6 minutes ago, dodge28 said:

 Cars 25 years old and older imported into Canada are exempt from certain taxes.  Some imported from across the pond  have to meet certain standard  like bumper height,  etc.  Cars over 25 years old  should be special interest cars. Special models.

And who decides what is and what isn't???

[CarNucopia]

2 hours ago, B Jake Moran said:

It's not an antique.  But the club needs to use an arbitrary number for membership, and 25 years from manufacture seems as good as any.   I would not confuse the name of the club with that meaning the club believes a 25 year old car is an antique.  

I think most people don't get confused. The problem as I see it is the Club still states it's aim as:

 

Quote

"the perpetuation of the pioneer days of automobiling by furthering the interest in and preservation of antique automobiles, and the promotion of sportsmanship and good fellowship among AACA members."

The club and owners know that 25 year-old cars are not antiques. What they may not know is if the club is a place for them.

 

[demco32]

40 minutes ago, Pfeil said:

And who decides what is and what isn't???

the law.

[1912Staver]

45 minutes ago, demco32 said:

the law.

Unfortunately the law in Canada at least is pretty vague and unspecific. But in the end it is just how much tax you have to pay, a relatively small issue compared to all the other costs involved with importing a vintage car into Canada. in most cases transportation and exchange on the dollar is going to a lot more expensive than the tax.

Edited February 9 by 1912Staver (see edit history)

[Paul Dobbin]

When we moved to North Carolina, the first car show I went to was just a "Car Show".   They had Antique Cars, Trucks, Street Rods

Sports Cars, Muscle Cars, Custom Cars, homemade cars, New Cars, Used Cars, anything and everything.    Sponsored  by the Chevrolet Dealer it became an annual event for Toys For Tots.   The dealer gets local merchants to donate stuff to be auctioned off and the proceeds go to the Veterans & Toys For Tots.  There are 3 trophies for various things and  everybody gets along and enjoys the day together.

[Billy Kingsley]

I have visited 35 states since the start of 2022. Only place I saw 25 year old vehicles as more than a rarity was in Roswell NM where I was for one day, but saw a handful of 70s trucks, all Chevrolet, and most modified.

It was enough that I wondered if there was a show and I just didn't know about it, since I was only there for a day and a half. 

[3macboys]

21 minutes ago, Billy Kingsley said:

I have visited 35 states since the start of 2022

Wow that's an impressive stat...I had to go through and count them up and I'm at 35 as a lifetime number and I've got more than a few years on you at 55

[demco32]

12 hours ago, 1912Staver said:

Unfortunately the law in Canada at least is pretty vague and unspecific. But in the end it is just how much tax you have to pay, a relatively small issue compared to all the other costs involved with importing a vintage car into Canada. in most cases transportation and exchange on the dollar is going to a lot more expensive than the tax.

 like in Europe.

 

[demco32]

On 2/9/2024 at 2:19 AM, JamesR said:

 

That's a good question.The tableware we received as wedding gifts 30 years ago was good quality, but we never think of it as antique. (We still use the pieces that didn't break.) Same with 25-35 year old musical instruments or furniture. I can't think of many things outside of cars that qualify as antiques at that age.

 

Of course there's a cultural context for this stuff. I could see a 1949 Hudson being generally perceived as an antique or "classic" in 1974, and it would've been 25 years old at the time. If you go to 35 years old, then even more so. That's because the world (styles, products and values) changed so much in a relatively short period of time back then. A car made in 1990 isn't perceived as being nearly as ancient today as a '39 Hudson was in 1974.

The reason why car brands change their models much faster is because of increasingly strict laws on safety, consumption and emissions.

For Europe, every type of car must have a certificate of conformity.

The certificates are only valid for 7 years for a car model and a new procedure must therefore be applied for. 

That is an expensive procedure for the car manufacturers and that is why they choose to produce a completely new model.

Customers also want a new model much faster than before

Cars from before 1969 did not need this certificate because this law did not yet exist.

Models therefore remained in production for much longer, which is why, for example, a mark 1,2 and 3 were built.

People born after the 1960s have therefore seen faster cars disappear from the streets more quickly .

Most classic cars are now purchased by the generation of around 50 years old and are the models they saw as a young child because, for example, their parents drove them.

However, young people now are less and less interested in cars and will therefore no longer want classic or antique cars.

This, together with all the new laws regarding the environment and taxes, will ensure that in the foreseeable future we will only have our antique cars in collections or museums.

It is not only the car models that are changing, but also the way young people think about cars and the importance they still attach to cars.

For many young people, cars are only a consumer product, while for the older generations they were a form of wealth and were valued much more than the value of the car.

For the older generation among us.

The meaning of antique car is therefore different than for younger people and a 25 year old car can be seen as an 'antique car' for them.

 

 

[Gtjoey]

It’s funny as I think this really becomes a Personal issue based on YOUR own personal age.

Let me explain,  I’m not old 😁and that 1984 Cadillac it’s twenty years younger than me!😁

Annnnd that Cadillac is now 40 years old!

 

Make sense ?

in 1986 I bought a 1954 Mercury and loved it, I drove it all the way to Hershey .Back then if a car wasn’t prewar it was Brand New!

A 65 Mustang was a pimple!

does this hit home with anyone?

In short I used to say the same but a standard guide line is what we have to be consistent , I’m old enough to say a 1990 Dodge caravan is JUNK but to a kid born in the late 80s it’s the same as ME in a Ford Country Squire wagon

Does this make any sense?

we’ll see you at Hershey , I’m bringing the 38 Bentley OR my 1996 Jaguar VDP

anotjer classic❤️😁🤣

Gtjoey1314

[hook]

24 minutes ago, Gtjoey said:

It’s funny as I think this really becomes a Personal issue based on YOUR own personal age.

Let me explain,  I’m not old 😁and that 1984 Cadillac it’s twenty years younger than me!😁

Annnnd that Cadillac is now 40 years old!

 

Make sense ?

in 1986 I bought a 1954 Mercury and loved it, I drove it all the way to Hershey .Back then if a car wasn’t prewar it was Brand New!

A 65 Mustang was a pimple!

does this hit home with anyone?

In short I used to say the same but a standard guide line is what we have to be consistent , I’m old enough to say a 1990 Dodge caravan is JUNK but to a kid born in the late 80s it’s the same as ME in a Ford Country Squire wagon

Does this make any sense?

we’ll see you at Hershey , I’m bringing the 38 Bentley OR my 1996 Jaguar VDP

anotjer classic❤️😁🤣

Gtjoey1314

I know a guy that went to an early Hershey in the 50's in a Pierce Arrow. It was a used car, definitely not an antique or classic. It happens to every generation and the old fuddyduds don't think 25 year old cars should be antiques. Oh well, live with it. Oh, by the way, when I was born Germany and Japan were enemy's so I'm an old fuddydud too.

[Tph479]

My definition of an antique car is that if I have to explain to someone how to

1) Start it

2) Shift it

3) Stop it

4) Explain what the levers on the steering wheel are for

5) explain what the gauges on the dash are for

6) explain what the knobs or pull things on the dash do, then you have an antique car.

 

Everything else is just an old car. 

[Larry Schramm]

It is hard sometimes to comprehend that all of the company cars that I had in the 80's & 90's are all now considered antique vehicles. 

 

I used to change cars every month/ 3,000 miles as they were product evaluation cars.

[60FlatTop]

When inspecting a true antique car one would find large amounts of sanctum in the area of the driver's seat.

[Ben Bruce aka First Born]

1 hour ago, 60FlatTop said:

When inspecting a true antique car one would find large amounts of sanctum in the area of the driver's seat.

 

  Alright,  Bernie,  you lost me on that one. 

 

  Ben

[Larry Schramm]

On 2/8/2024 at 8:19 PM, JamesR said:

 

That's a good question. The tableware we received as wedding gifts 30 years ago was good quality, but we never think of it as antique. (We still use the pieces that didn't break.) Same with 25-35 year old musical instruments or furniture. I can't think of many things outside of cars that qualify as antiques at that age.

 

Our tableware, dishes and silverware we got 46 years ago when we got married still looks good and actually somewhat sought after. When I have needed to replace a piece broken here and there the prices are quite high.

 

As for musical instruments I used my Dads trumpet in school and I graduated in 1970.  Then my son used his grandfathers trumped(same one) through school.  My daughters used my French horn that I used through school.

 

If you look at yourself as the caretaker of an item and take care of it the item will have a long and useful life. 

 

Electronics excluded.

[Pfeil]

36 minutes ago, arcticbuicks said:

@Pfeil and @1912Staver  please dont post incorrect information

the importation of a antique car or vehicle into Canada is very clear-not one bit vague.....the rules are posted and easy and simple to read and understand online..and there is NO 25 year old antique car law making it exempt from taxes.........since free trade came in around 1986.....and is very easy to know how much tax you will be paying.....simply the Canadian converted cost in CDN $ .....will be subject to both taxes..... ..NO car of any age imported to Canada is free of any taxes.....Antique or not......you will pay both GST and PST.

 

There is a separate law for any car under 15 years old for safety compliance and these also fall under Duty to be paid.

As for your bumper height comment pheil......bumpers fall under the RIV program for a car newer than 15 years old.

 

For USA buyers of Canadian cars........the laws are very different.......i have done importations both directions over a 100 times

 

What misinformation did I give out?

[arcticbuicks]

very sorry.......i meant to type in dodge28.....and put you by mistake looking back.

corrected 

Edited February 10 by arcticbuicks (see edit history)

[Pfeil]

On 2/9/2024 at 10:40 AM, demco32 said:

the law.

And who are these people who write the law? Could some of them be people who have a dislike for the automobile? are green zealots? Are they car lovers or not? Fair question, isn't it?  

[Jack Bennett]

On 2/7/2024 at 7:21 PM, f.f.jones said:

Should  cars of '80's and '90's really be called "antiques"? Many Europeans and most of my antique collector friends say items need to be 100 years or older to be considered and designated as antique. A lot of them don't consider anything from the 20th century "antique".

Maybe there is better terminology for items, cars included, that are, say, 50 - 25 years old. Could they be classified like furniture ? ..."mid-century modern", "contemporary"?  Earlier things are "art deco" or "modrene".

 

I've been around since the '40's and grew up around cars of the '30's  I don't really consider anything post WW1 as "antique". I can recall a couple of Model T's in daily use in my small town as a kid and a few late '20's delivery and farm trucks. 

My God, next year cars built in 2000 will be antiques.

 

By AACA standards, I have been an antique for 60 years. 

 

 

 

Should a idiot be allowed to call the teeth at the rear of their mouth “wisdom” teeth?

And, if the dentist is asked to remove their “wisdom” teeth, is she/he in order by removing their molars or incisors instead?

So far as I am concerned it is purely a matter of semantics, and I have a million other, equally as insignificant matters, with which to clutter my brain.

I like to talk to people about their machines, and don’t go out of my way to talk to their machines about them.

Splitting hairs over a word, on a forum which relies on words to exist, speaks of hypocrisy. And I, personally, visit these forums to escape the animosity which permeates the relationships, attitudes and ability of people to communicate because the very nature of their existence is based on “mine is bigger than yours”.

In your sense of logic, your 1912 Stutz Bearcat may be old, but we have nothing in common to talk about because my current project is a 1929 Fargo, and that is even newer than either my 1927 Willys, my 1923 Dodge, and, god forbid, because my 1951 Plymouth are all modern machines when compared to your erotic assemblage of professionally renewed sheet steel, exotic acrylic paint, new rubber tires which mimic old rubber tires, and a engine which cost $8000.00 to replace every part made in 1912.

No sir, I like to talk about cars, and projects involving cars and let the Democrats, Republicans and movie and stage personalities worry about the semantics of age and economy.

Jack

Edited February 10 by Jack Bennett (see edit history)

[1912Staver]

46 minutes ago, arcticbuicks said:

@dodge28 and @1912Staver  please dont post incorrect information

the importation of a antique car or vehicle into Canada is very clear-not one bit vague.....the rules are posted and easy and simple to read and understand online..and there is NO 25 year old antique car law making it exempt from taxes.........since free trade came in around 1986.....and is very easy to know how much tax you will be paying.....simply the Canadian converted cost in CDN $ .....will be subject to both taxes..... ..NO car of any age imported to Canada is free of any taxes.....Antique or not......you will pay both GST and PST.

 

There is a separate law for any car under 15 years old for safety compliance and these also fall under Duty to be paid.

As for your bumper height comment pheil......bumpers fall under the RIV program for a car newer than 15 years old.

 

For Canadians buying a car in the USA.....antique or not.....things will go smooth and you will know your costs that you can calculate before reaching the border.......if you follow the rules........for someone doing this first time.....i highly recommend you use a broker and for little cost to get the newer AES filing understood and correct.

 

For USA buyers of Canadian cars........the laws are very different.......i have done importations both directions over a 100 times

 

Thanks for the clarification. I have actually only done it 6 times myself , but each time it seems to get more difficult. Not the Canadian side of things that's just money and the tip of the cost iceberg at that. But rather the U.S. part. It's to the point where I have almost given up the thoughts of any further imports due to a combination of cost and the flaming hoops you have to jump through to do the U.S. side of the export. { import into Canada }

  But I don't do it for profit like you do so if the process becomes more trouble and cost than it is worth to me it is easy to just walk away from the whole situation. In your case earning a living has to make it worth your time and trouble regardless of how convoluted the process becomes.

 I am at the point in life where I don't need any more old cars. A person like me for some mysterious reason always seems to want another one, but another 10 years and I doubt that will even be the case. Every 6 months or so I see something Stateside I could really get excited about, but when I work all the costs involved I; out of facing reality , realize the numbers don't work. Prices are dropping , but I am afraid I am going to run out of years before they drop enough for me to rejoin the ranks of buyers again. I really only have to buy one or perhaps two more cars to achieve my car hobby goals, if I don't find them in Canada the desire will probably go unfulfilled.

[1912Staver]

In my case the #1 deal stopper is the need for a Title. The cars I am personally interested in are almost always projects, and the paperwork side of things is more often than not missing. 

 Next hurdle is transportation. My old truck is just plain old, good for trips I can afford a tow home from , but beyond that you are rolling the dice.

 It's just the reality of being a retired person in Canada { at least 80 % of us or so } these days that you can't just go to an auction and take your pick, pay your money. 

 Any car I am INTERESTED  in; in running , driving condition, is going to be beyond my means. The reality of living on a pension in the Vancouver area. I am pretty capable, have a comprehensive tools , shop equipment set up, lathe mill, welding ,fabricating, and over 40 years experience in industry building things / and 4 years restoring cars in a commercial shop setting. So I am much more of a project person than most.

 So like I say, in my case at least the border is a 50 ft high wall. Pity as I only live about 15 minutes from my local crossing into Washington State. I really need to buy an acre or two of cheap WA. State land and buy all the parts cars I think I can use. Strip off what I need at my leisure and bring it back home a few parts at a time. That way the entire Export process circus is avoided. But even cheap WA. land has gone up quite a bit since I first started seriously thinking about that solution 20 or so years ago.

 Artic Buicks , how do you handle parts cars ? Or are they just not worth your time from a business / profit generating point of view ?

 

[1912Staver]

I actively buy anything from these cars, parts ,wrecks, carcasses and bones, Anything. TVR 1958 - 1976 But restored, driving cars like these ones are well beyond me. Unlimited sweat equity available. But limited $, it has to be under $10,000.00 CDN.

 

 

 

Edited February 10 by 1912Staver (see edit history)

[1912Staver]

In the 1980's the owner of the shop I worked at was doing much the same. A good friend since childhood, his family was quite well off and had property in California which made the buying end a lot easier. That's actually where I first saw the usefulness of having a piece of U.S. land to store things on while all the details were worked out. But I was Canadian and on the West Coast so 95 % of my disposable income was tied up in paying for my Vancouver area house. Still is. I live a pretty good life right on up to where old cars are concerned. Great house these days,{ finally } but still not enough shop space. { does any old car guy ever have enough ? } As for several million , well we can all dream. For me it is simply a hobby. When i made my living with old cars it was just work. Getting into another line of work { ships engineer } gave me back my hobby.