Matt Harwood Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 (edited) Well, after two days of tinkering, Roman and I have given up. We can't get the driver's door on this all-original 20,000-mile 1948 Packard to open. It was working when it first arrived, but through the magic of sitting there doing nothing, it no longer opens. Neither the inside nor the outside handles feel loose or sloppy, the door lock button still works to lock it, but pulling either handle does not release the catch. Unfortunately, the manual states that it can only be serviced by opening the door--it appears to be a wheel-type latch similar to what Ford was using in the '50s. We can't remove the inner door panel, because, of course, the window garnish molding is held in by the weather seals and the seat and dashboard are in the way of some of the door panel screws, so no dice there. Anyone with experience with a late '40s Packard who can offer some insights? We're at our wits' end here--I'm about to take a Sawzall to the wood on the outside of the door. Edited January 8 by Matt Harwood (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarNucopia Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 My solution would be to take the inner and outer door handles off and pretend it isn't supposed to open. Or...maybe put the car outside where it is cold to see if the warmth of the shop may have expanded something (like the wood) that has created a sticking point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
60FlatTop Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 You're kidding! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexRiv_63 Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 Is it possible to very carefully insert a pry bar at the door bottom from inside or outside and shift the door slightly upward while trying to open it? Old lube plus sagging can bind the latch mechanism. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dalef62 Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 Is it possible that it is locked but the lock button is not showing it? Try pulling the door handle while locking and unlocking door with lock button. Try all combinations, inside, outside, even try the key while holding handle open. I have had modern cars do this and locking and unlocking the button while holding the handle has got it unjammed. Good luck! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdome Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 Not familiar with that Packard. Is the wood just exterior trim or is there structural wood framework. If the doors and posts have wood framing, as others have suggested, put the car out in the cold again. I have seen that happen with non-woodies where the peg gets jammed against the side, top or bottom of the latch, perhaps due to loose hinge pin or bolts. Try to line up the latch forcing the door up, down, left, right by the outside handle while someone else pushes door open from inside. You might also slam your butt against the door to reset the latch if you haven't tried that already. If nothing works, your only option is to get inside the door through the inside door panel and that may not be pretty if you can't detach the panel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank DuVal Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 OK, I'll take the problem off your hands for $1k.... 🤣 I've had cars where the door needed to be forced open by kicking it from the inside. You would need to place a padded board against the kicking spot of course, while someone pulled the handles into the "open" position. Roll down window and do both handles at same time. Locksmiths also have wedges and an inflatable tool that fits into the window opening so you can see inside with a bright light better (yes, it can bend sheet metal, so be careful). This will allow you to see if the rods are moving the latch without removing the door panel. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brass is Best Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 Get some good penetrating oil on the latch spray it inside the door and in the door jamb. Have someone hold the latch open on the outside. Put someone in the car pulling the latch at the same time and throw a shoulder into the door. If that doesn't work pad the door panel and give it a good kick. You can also try picking up on the door while trying to open it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JACK M Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 Thread drift. Just yesterday I locked my keys in the pick up at about 120 miles from home. Called my "Good Sam Roadside Assistance" . Took about 20 minutes of an interview to get the lock pick guy dispatched. He arrived within five minutes. He actually picked the door lock. The other couple of times a lock out guy came to the rescue they used the inflatable thingy that Frank mentioned. That inflater made me nervous, the pick only took the guy a few seconds. That wasted half hour (might have been 40 minutes) made me drive in the dark the last few miles home. My worst time for driving, Country roads in the dark and pouring rain. UGH !!! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JACK M Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 Matt, I hope you get your door opened as easily as mine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Harwood Posted January 9 Author Share Posted January 9 Thanks for the suggestions, guys. No dice so far. We've disassembled as much as we can but can't get to the mechanism. We've lubricated everything we can reach. We've tried it with the door lock button down, door lock button up, pulling it up while pulling the handle, prying on the bottom of the door to try to lift it, prying on the top of the door to try to drop it down, and nothing. I put my shoulder against it pretty hard and it didn't even budge. Not sure I want to risk kicking it just yet, although I am tempted to kick the stupid car just out of spite. I'll keep sleeping on it and pounding on it and maybe something will come loose, either in the car or in my head. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8E45E Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 (edited) Did you take the key and rotate it in the lock in different positions to see if will eventually 'catch' the latch when you pull (or turn, it that's the style) on the handle? Craig Edited January 9 by 8E45E (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8E45E Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 If the latch assembly is NOT at fault, then either jack up the left front wheel, or if you don't trust a jack, park it with the left front wheel up on a curb, and see if that works. Craig 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brass is Best Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 39 minutes ago, 8E45E said: If the latch assembly is NOT at fault, then either jack up the left front wheel, or if you don't trust a jack, park it with the left front wheel up on a curb, and see if that works. Craig Yes try twisting the car it may work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Harwood Posted January 10 Author Share Posted January 10 Ooh, good idea. I'll twist it tomorrow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted January 10 Share Posted January 10 (edited) Go down inside with a scope. You can do the passengers side first to see how it works. Then make a tool and go fishing. Edited January 10 by edinmass (see edit history) 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmTee Posted January 10 Share Posted January 10 Last resort: remove the front fender and unbolt the hinges. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dictator27 Posted January 10 Share Posted January 10 Take the passengers door panel off to check operation of the latch mechanism. Possibly a linkage part that has become disconnected. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8E45E Posted January 10 Share Posted January 10 4 hours ago, dictator27 said: Take the passengers door panel off to check operation of the latch mechanism. Possibly a linkage part that has become disconnected. Still doesn't solve the problem. He must still have to access the latch mechanism inside the DRIVER'S door to repair it, which as clearly stated, cannot be worked on without destroying anything blocking it. Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dictator27 Posted January 10 Share Posted January 10 2 hours ago, 8E45E said: Still doesn't solve the problem. He must still have to access the latch mechanism inside the DRIVER'S door to repair it, which as clearly stated, cannot be worked on without destroying anything blocking it. Craig Oops! Didn't go far enough. I was actually thinking of making up a tool to push down into the door past the glass and fish for the lock mechanism to open it, but after rereading Matt's description - several times - I don't think that would work. I worked for years as an automotive trim mechanic (rattles, squeaks, water leaks, wind whistles, etc.) and on a few occasions had to open doors which had become permanently locked. Most of the time the above-mentioned trick worked, but if, as Matt says, the door handles and lock button appear to be working as designed, the only thing left is the actual rotary door latch. They were used by a lot of auto makers starting in the mid/late 1930's. I would see if a good working example can be found to check out how the rotary wheel is released to open the door. Having said that there may be only one option left, starting with removing the front seat (been there, done that) to gain access to as many of the door panel screws/clips as possible. Pulling the door panel out far enough to be able to get a long thin blade screwdriver into the latch to release it, assuming it can be seen to do that, is a possibility. There will likely be some damage to the door panel which sucks on a nice original car but.... Good luck, however you do it, Matt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bhigdog Posted January 10 Share Posted January 10 9 hours ago, dictator27 said: Take the passengers door panel off to check operation of the latch mechanism. Possibly a linkage part that has become disconnected. Yup, pretty much. Without knowing exactly the likely cause any attempts made fishing around are just poking and hoping. Not exactly the best way to solve a problem............Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DFeeney Posted January 11 Share Posted January 11 My Ex-Mother -In-Law ( may she rest in Peace) could have starred the "Door" open. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m-mman Posted January 11 Share Posted January 11 On 1/9/2024 at 2:25 PM, Matt Harwood said: Not sure I want to risk kicking it just yet, although I am tempted to kick the stupid car just out of spite. Was the Packard parked close enough to the Lincoln that they could be conspiring against you? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old car fan Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 Matt,any luck? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pont35cpe Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 Is the latch a plunger tongue type, or roller in a track? Is it possible to use a flat screwdriver or flat bar, working from inside into the latch area and maybe pop it open that way? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R Walling Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 Put a large Amazon package on the front seat and park it next to your front porch! 2 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STEVE POLLARD Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 On 1/8/2024 at 2:57 PM, Matt Harwood said: We can't get the driver's door on this all-original 20,000-mile 1948 Packard to open Looks like a beautiful car ! It just seems strange that it stopped working..... Matt, maybe call the previous owner, see if he had any issues as well ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
human-potato_hybrid Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 (edited) @Matt Harwood I have a 55 Clipper with I believe the same type of door latches and I have the same problem on mine. The cause is that the teeth get worn out and you end up with the gear just jamming itself in the rack. First remove the door panel if you can. It won't be easy with the door closed but probably is possible. Two options: - Lay on your back and with both legs kick the door from the inside near the striker position. This may dislodge it. - Get in with a punch and rotate the gear from the inside of the door. You may need to drill a hole in a convenient area for direct access. Unfortunately these are the only two solutions I have heard of. Definitely would NOT try the pry bar—it's way more stuck than that. Likewise don't abuse the latch mechanism thinking that the travel on it is insufficient—it's probably fine. Edited January 16 by human-potato_hybrid (see edit history) 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
human-potato_hybrid Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 BTW, post a pic of the passenger side latches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dictator27 Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 Nothing is impossible of course, but I can't see a car with only 20000 miles on it having a worn out latch, even if it is 76 years old. Roll the window down, protect the door panel with a towel and hit the door panel with a rubber mallet from the outside while pulling on the door handle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Harwood Posted January 16 Author Share Posted January 16 Well, we tried twisting the car and that sucker is as solid as a railroad bridge. No twist to note even with the left front frame rail two feet off the ground. I'm going to try putting a little more force into it, perhaps kicking it near the latch as the human-potato hybrid suggests. We've tried removing the door panel, but there are several fasteners along the trailing edge of the door that are not accessible with the door closed. I'm hesitant to dig into the passenger side door just to look at the latch because door panels never go back into place quite right once you take them off. I don't know that there's anything to be learned there, anyway. We can see into the driver's door and see the latch mechanism moving. It's just not releasing. My best guess is that somehow one of the "teeth" on the wheel latch is only moved halfway and just wedged itself into the striker in the door frame, if that makes any sense. Instead of rotating fully to latch cleanly, it only rotated half way and got wedged in place. So brute force it is. Worst case, we break the latch and have to get another one. Fortunately, they're pretty common and are not unique to the station sedans. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
human-potato_hybrid Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 11 minutes ago, Matt Harwood said: Well, we tried twisting the car and that sucker is as solid as a railroad bridge. No twist to note even with the left front frame rail two feet off the ground. I'm hesitant to dig into the passenger side door just to look at the latch because door panels never go back into place quite right once you take them off. I don't know that there's anything to be learned there, anyway. We can see into the driver's door and see the latch mechanism moving. It's just not releasing. My best guess is that somehow one of the "teeth" on the wheel latch is only moved halfway and just wedged itself into the striker in the door frame, if that makes any sense. Instead of rotating fully to latch cleanly, it only rotated half way and got wedged in place. - The frames on these are extremely stiff. You can lift the entire car by the center of the X member without damage. - Passenger side – just a picture of the exterior of the latches as I'm not 100% familiar with these. - Yes I believe it is wedged in as you describe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Harwood Posted January 18 Author Share Posted January 18 Success--kind of. The door is open! The latch was indeed stuck the way Potato and I suspected--you can see that it is a bit deformed. It was wedged under the striker on the door post. Kicking it, of course, also broke something inside the latch mechanism so it no longer works. Meh. I think I can find another one. They're the same as all Packard sedans used for many years. Now that we can get the door panel off, we'll take it apart and have a closer look. Thanks for all the suggestions and help! 12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
human-potato_hybrid Posted January 18 Share Posted January 18 Yay! This is a nice car so I would see if Max Merritt still has any NOS or good used. Only a matter of time before someone repro's these. Only in 1956 did they stop using the soft pot metal. Too late now but a lot of people will swap the one in the driver's door with whichever one looks the newest on another door of their car, that will fit, when they notice wear. Though I think on this one they are all different. Here's your part number BTW. https://packardinfo.com/xoops/html/modules/partslist/index.php?mode=partnumber&SearchValue=396061 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DFeeney Posted January 18 Share Posted January 18 You are now moving forward. That's the best any of us can do. Time and Patience is the word. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Roth Posted January 18 Share Posted January 18 2 hours ago, Joe Cocuzza said: Maybe give these guys a call: https://www.tucsonpackard.com/product-page/1948-1950-packard-custom-8-lock-mechanism-nos Careful ! That one states: Passenger Side They MAY also have Driver Side, but NOT THIS ONE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
human-potato_hybrid Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 @Matt Harwood You specifically need to buy a front driver side (front left). Per the parts book they are not interchangeable (cf. my link above). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
human-potato_hybrid Posted January 21 Share Posted January 21 By the way hop on Packardinfo.com you will find a much higher concentration of Packard people for any of your very Packard specific questions 😀 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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