Hi All! New blood here with a '28 Chrysler

[ECCO Machine]

I didn't see a new member forum, so figured GD was the place!

Been a Mopar nut all my life and have/had many classics, but this is my first pre-1950 critter.   It's a 1928 Model 52 Deluxe, and I think it's pretty nice, especially for the price I paid!

Unfortunately, the fellow who was handling the estate entrusted a local hack shop for clutch replacement, and they missed the shift fork alignment, causing it to be in reverse and forward gears at the same time.   So I'm in search of a transmission, or at least all the gears except the 2 sliders.  It blew the reverse gear on the cluster into 9 pieces, tore 4 teeth off the reverse idler and damaged the input gear.  Really hoping I don't have to do a powertrain transplant right off the bat.

Anyway, here she is:

 

And the bad news:



I have looked in the Chrysler for sale section and posted to a couple related threads, but if any of y'all know where one of these Warner Gear T2-1 gearboxes might be, I'd love to know!

[keiser31]

Welcome. Very nice car! Try Jay Astheimer. He has early stuff for Chrysler.

Edited August 29, 2023 by keiser31 (see edit history)

[keiser31]

Try Rich at this link for handles. I see one missing.

https://forums.aaca.org/profile/112535-thehandleman/

[Ben Bruce aka First Born]

DME  LLC.    606 237 6648 

 

  Ben

[Graham Man]

The 1928 small six cars mostly used the same transmisions, guessing it is a Borg Warner should have some numbers, 3 speed, some jeeps used the same transmission into the 50s.  It should be happy around 40 mph, guessing 4.70 ish rear end, one of the Chrysler guys will chime in.  Beautiful car.

[George Smolinski]

2 hours ago, ECCO Machine said:

I didn't see a new member forum, so figured GD was the place!

From the looks of the replies so far, I’d say you came to the right place. Welcome. An absolute ton of information about the old stuff here.

[tcslr]

ECCO machine. Sent you a PM of an email of a guy that has 1928 72 parts. 
im not sure if the transmissions interchange though. Please check and confirm.

good luck. My 29 75 is a great car. Just came back from the vintage tour and spent time touring in NH. 
Tom

[John_S_in_Penna]

5 minutes ago, tcslr said:

Sent you a PM of an email of a guy that has 1928 72 parts.

Newcomers to the forum cannot send Private Messages.

I don't know whether they can receive them.  Perhaps

post the man's name and telephone here.

[tcslr]

Thanks, John. PM seemed to go. 
 

ECCO - call my cell 814-233-8856. Or text is better. I’m out of pocket tomorrow.

 

Tom

[DLynskey]

This Model 52 Chrysler is a 4-cylinder and has almost no mechanical parts in common with the 6-cylinder Chryslers. I don't know about the transmission, but other 4-cylinder models (50, 58) are a possibility as well as early Plymouth (1929) and even Maxwell.

 

That's a nice-looking car -- probably the nicest Landau I've seen. I think you'll enjoy it. The 52 was the entry level Chrysler in 1928, a popular car in its time. Fairly bullet-proof mechanically, but not happy above 45-50 mph. Several of the forum members have 4-cylinder Chryslers, so parts are available.

 

Please do not do a driveline transplant.  Parked in a row of copycat street rods, all with 350 engine/automatic/PS/PB and AC this Chrysler will be a standout. 

 

Don

 

 

[wayne sheldon]

Wow, somebody really had to work at blowing up a transmission like that!

And please, do not consider replacing any of the drivetrain with something newer. That car is way to nice to be ruined that way.

Sadly, way to much of old rusty iron was shipped off on the one way trip to China without anyone considering that some of it was actually valuable in a historic sense as spare parts to keep our history alive and active.

History is important! And things like antique automobiles help to connect people to their history.

 

While they are not as plentiful as they were thirty years ago, Chrysler built  lot of that series automobiles. A lot of them survive still, and there should still be a lot of decent extra transmissions out there to be had. Not like the 1927 Paige 6-45 sedan my dad bought to be restored as the "great family project" in 1967 when I was fifteen. The original owner of that car managed to blow the cluster gear twenty years earlier. And it wasn't anywhere near that bad! For the Paige? It took me 25 years to find a correct replacement! You should be able to get a replacement for that within a couple months.

 

 

And, "Welcome to the affliction" as we sometimes say!

Edited August 29, 2023 by wayne sheldon
Additional thought. (see edit history)

[ECCO Machine]

13 hours ago, keiser31 said:

Try Rich at this link for handles. I see one missing.

https://forums.aaca.org/profile/112535-thehandleman/

 

I actually have both of those rear handles, but I am missing one on the passenger front, so much appreciated!

 

Thank you to everyone for all the support! This is awesome!  I wasn't turning up much at all with internet searches.  I'll be reaching out to those contacts today.

 

As far as drivetrain swapping if it did happen with this, it would 1) be done with no permanent alterations to the car and 2) most likely a 2.5L Jeep 4 cylinder mated to a 2WD AX-15 trans I already have so it would still more-or-less sound right.   If that day comes, I have ways of getting it done not available to most; I manufacture firearm suppressors and accessories for a living, but the equipment I have can do a lot more.   I could even remake these gears if I really wanted to, but the time investment for such one-off parts is huge, whether on  manual machines or on my 4 and 5 axis CNCs.  That cluster gear especially; some tricky geometry there from a cutting standpoint to make it as one piece, and I also have rather little gear making experience.  I've made plenty of parts I just plain couldn't find, but it's a lot more practical and economical to buy parts like these whenever possible.

 

Incidentally, I'll almost certainly end up fixing/making some parts for this car on a machine of roughly the same vintage that I use almost daily.  I love antique machinery as well!

 

It's had some modernizing with DROs, electronic power feed, coolant flooding, tool post, etc. but the machine is still a piece of mid-1920s history making high precision parts 100 years later!

 

Anyway, I don't think this will be our only 1920s critter.   We'll be on the hunt for a 6 series coupe or roadster down the road!  And I'm very grateful to have found y'all for this one and those to come in the future!

 

 

 

 

[John_S_in_Penna]

41 minutes ago, ECCO Machine said:

This is awesome!  I wasn't turning up much at all with internet searches.  I'll be reaching out to those contacts today.

May you have plenty of enjoyment with your Chrysler.

AACA members know more than the Google search engine!

[TexRiv_63]

Welcome aboard, nice car. As you can see you have come to the right place for prewar car help.

[28 Chrysler]

Your lathe is newer than the 1916 Southbend I had a few years back.

The transmissions is different than all of the six cylinder cars.

[31 LaSalle]

lovely car shame about the gears I like the lathe as well

A lot of excellent information on this site

 

[mobileparts]

I will chime in, also… Beautiful car … A Real HERSHEY car…

 

As you are noticing, this is the Absolute Best Site to get your problems solved and get your New Love back on the road….

 

Welcome Aboard….

[DFeeney]

I believe the 1928 Chrysler 4 used the same transmission as a 28/29 Plymouth.  I have several transmissions and a set of good gears.  Send me your transmission case #.  I will be at fall Hershey.  Don in central Ohio

[viv w]

Nice car. I had a series 52 tourer and rebuilt a couple of series 50, the tranny on model 50 and 52 are the same, not sure on the model 58 or 28/9 Plymouth. The 6 cylinder car gearboxes I'm pretty sure are not the same, certainly the series 62 and series G70 cars that I have are different from the 4 cyl cars.

 My series 52 motor we rebuilt and rebalanced everything, it was a sweet running car, happy at 35 to 38mph on the open road, it could be pushed along at higher speeds and was tested up to 55 on one occasion, but anything over 40mph you could feel the car did not like it.

 2 weaknesses to keep a regular eye on, the right angle drive at the bottom of the distributor is made of diecast, the metal swells or crumbles, watch out for the shaft binding inside the housing and seizing. Also the housing on the front of the gearbox/tranny is diecast and can suffer from the same problem.

 If your car has hydraulic brakes, a word of caution when stripping wheel cylinders, there is a stop block in between the 2 pistons, do not try to force the pistons thru from one side to the other, like you can with some modern cars. The stop block will not move and you will destroy the cylinders. Also the external contracting brakes are okay, but if you get caught in a heavy rainstorm the brakes efficiency are poor, allow extra stopping distance.

 Enjoy the car and I'm sure you will find the parts needed.

Edited August 29, 2023 by viv w (see edit history)

[DFeeney]

You should find two oil cups on your distributor housing.  The lower one is the only way the distributor/cam gears get oil ,  be sure to pump a lot of oil in it so its sump will become full.

[ECCO Machine]

20 hours ago, viv w said:

 Also the housing on the front of the gearbox/tranny is diecast and can suffer from the same problem.
 

 Thanks for all the tips!   Especially on the distributor drive.   This car is an earlier 1928 with mechanical rear brakes only, so won't be doing anything with wheel cylinders.  Unless I find it unsafe on our local roads with rear brakes only, I will leave it that way

I did notice that with the front trans housing piece that the release bearing rides on.   Does anyone know of a good reason that couldn't be made from 17-4 stainless steel?   Unlike the gears, that's a simple part that is easily reproduced from round bar, but if someone has tried that with high strength hardened steels/stainless steels and had issues result from the tougher, more rigid material with different thermal expansion properties, I'll spare myself the trouble and potential future issues.

I did call Jay Astheimer first, and he believes he has a trans, but if he can't find the right one, I'll definitely be reaching out!

[30DodgePanel]

On 8/28/2023 at 4:24 PM, ECCO Machine said:

if any of y'all know where one of these Warner Gear T2-1 gearboxes might be, I'd love to know!

 Wow, very nice...

 

As for the gearbox, is there a way you can post pics of the case with the numbers on it so those of us that may not know what they look like can compare to our inventory just in case you can't locate anything?

 

Again, welcome to forum. This IS the right place...

Dave

 

 

[Bill Boudway]

Contact Rob Burchill to see if he can help.

hattiesgarage@comcast.net or prburch@aol.com

[Leif in Calif]

The Maxwell engine was revised by Chrysler in 1927 with better cooling of the exhaust ports. I've never seen one, but my sources say there was a "red head" option that had a higher compression ratio and a much better combustion chamber with more modern turbulent geometry. I drive a car with 2 wheel brakes...it's fine at the speeds it's capable of, you just need to pay attention! If you swap in that Jeep motor, you will suddenly become aware of the limitations of the chassis. 

[DFeeney]

I have a W G   ( Warner Gear ) T-2 transmission for sale.  It came from a 1928 Plymouth.  It  is apart and includes more than one gear set.   The case has the lower gear cluster and the reverse/idler gear.  What you see is what you get.    All parts are "Good Used"   $100. buys all.  Shipping extra.  I can deliver them to Fall Hershey.    Don in central Ohio   740-816-4284

[30DodgePanel]

On 8/30/2023 at 11:42 AM, ECCO Machine said:

Does anyone know of a good reason that couldn't be made from 17-4 stainless steel?  

 

Does the parts DFeeney in the post above mine work? 
A lot of newbies ask questions then vanish after they've been helped and we regulars never know if you found your parts or answers.

 

If you kindly respond to DFeeney it will help us know if his parts will work or if we need to continue our search.

I've personally searched for a total of about 1.5 hours, so if the parts DFeeney has will work for you then that will save us all some time before we continue searching.

 

Regards and best of luck

Dave

 

 

 

On 9/1/2023 at 12:35 PM, DFeeney said:

I have a W G   ( Warner Gear ) T-2 transmission for sale.  It came from a 1928 Plymouth.  It  is apart and includes more than one gear set.   The case has the lower gear cluster and the reverse/idler gear.  What you see is what you get.    All parts are "Good Used"   $100. buys all.  Shipping extra.  I can deliver them to Fall Hershey.    Don in central Ohio   740-816-4284

 

 

 

BINGO! That should be a match. Kudos Don.

Hopefully he sees this and gets in touch with you so we can see the ole Chrysler back on the road

 

[ECCO Machine]

On 9/10/2023 at 7:45 AM, 30DodgePanel said:

 

Does the parts DFeeney in the post above mine work? 
A lot of newbies ask questions then vanish after they've been helped and we regulars never know if you found your parts or answers.

 

If you kindly respond to DFeeney it will help us know if his parts will work or if we need to continue our search.

I've personally searched for a total of about 1.5 hours, so if the parts DFeeney has will work for you then that will save us all some time before we continue searching.

 

Regards and best of luck

Dave

 

 

 

 

Yes, they did.  Showed up late last week, but we're still trying to put our house back together, so I didn't have time to get into them until this evening.

Thank you for looking!

I wasn't sure they would be a go for a minute, as evidently the T2C-1 has a slightly taller housing and uses a larger 17 tooth input shaft gear to a larger front sliding gear, but after some examining, I realized I could transplant the cluster and reverse idler into my T2-1 case and then run my original sliding gears and input.  So it's back together and driving as of a couple hours ago, just need to go through the carb and then get it registered & insured!

I did have to make a bushing for the trans output.  I forgot to find a seal while I was waiting, didn't feel like searching and waiting even longer for a 1-1/2 ID, 2-7/16 OD 3/8" thick seal when I had a modern flange type seal on hand of the right thickness and ID, just had to make a 1.373" ID x 1.438" OD aluminum bushing and loctite it into the housing.

Also found the input shaft housing was not very round and the release bearing was way too tight on it, but that sort of thing is an easy fix.



I had contemplated making a new one out of 17-4 stainless, but time is in short supply right now, and it's just not that big a deal to pull the trans again if it becomes necessary.  I needed to get this thing off the lift, as the engine machine shop expects to have my block for the 500 stroker that's going in my '78 Aspen coupe ready next week.  That's been on the back burner way too long, and I have all the rest of the stroker kit, ported aluminum heads, cam, Holley Sniper II kit injection kit and everything else here.  Been a 440 car for awhile, but it's an old RV engine with a Street Dominator intake, a Quick Fuel 850 carb and MSD ignition, probably only about 270 HP & 350 lb. ft torque.   The 10.6:1 500 stroker with fuel injection and Hyperspark digital ignition should be in the 550-600 HP range with 600+ lb.ft.   It'll make the 3,100 lb car scoot for sure!   I know this is the wrong forum for that vehicle, but I'm just as excited to have it done as the '28!

Edited September 24, 2023 by ECCO Machine (see edit history)

[30DodgePanel]

3 hours ago, ECCO Machine said:

 

Yes, they did.  Showed up late last week.

Been a 440 car for awhile, but it's an old RV engine with a Street Dominator intake, a Quick Fuel 850 carb and MSD ignition, probably only about 270 HP & 350 lb. ft torque.   The 10.6:1 500 stroker with fuel injection and Hyperspark digital ignition should be in the 550-600 HP range with 600+ lb.ft.   It'll make the 3,100 lb car scoot for sure!   I know this is the wrong forum for that vehicle, but I'm just as excited to have it done as the '28!

 

Good to hear and I can see why you're excited about the Aspen.

 

As for the 440 talk, I think you'll find most of us purist have no problem once we realize you aren't destroying a true clean classic from the pre war era. You've proven you have a respect for why this forum exists and what it stands for, the toys on the side are your choice and a Aspen is far from a historical piece that anyone will even miss. I wish more of the ratrod guys would understand but I digress... 

 

A lot of us grew up muscle car fans, I personally grew up a Mopar muscle car fan. My brother owned a 1970 GTX 440/727 AT Lime Light Green and a 1968 Cuda fastback 383 Forumla S triple black, examples from the web below. I can't help but wonder if those are his cars that he owned at one point. The Cuda had SS Cragars on it the last I seen it, other than that they are identical from memory. 

 

From what you've described, the Aspen is one that shouldn't have a hard time showing that black lines still matter  . Sounds fun!

 

 

[ECCO Machine]

OK, next question:

What's everyone's opinion on the best carburetor for these?

It has a Tillotson JR1A, which I pulled off to go through, only to discover that the bowl had been "repaired"; looks like someone tried to solder it, realized that wasn't gonna work, then JB welded it.   It was leaking.  I cleaned off all the epoxy and did a TIG repair, which of course went horribly on account of the very porous and contaminated alloy, fighting pinholes no matter how much I tried to prep clean, including 120 grit AO blasting inside & out.

Before it wouldn't rev unless choked, now that's resolved after a thorough cleaning including tiny wire gauge drills to get the solidified ick out of the jets, but seems no matter what I adjust, the idle won't play nice.  I also feel like this thing should have more power.  I know it was only rated at 38 HP, but it feels like half that at the moment.

I've got the carb sealed up for now and can move the thing under it's own power, but this carb really just needs replaced.  I don't think it's correct anyway; the representation in the original manual I procured shows a completely different unit.

Should I go Zenith?

Edited September 24, 2023 by ECCO Machine (see edit history)

[carbking]

The 1928 Chrysler model 52 had a number of different carburetors.

 

Early production used a Carter type RAJH-0 number 100s which was basically a "tweak" of the 1927 model.

 

This carb was quickly replaced with Carter type RJH-08 number 112s, which was then replaced with 119s which was then replaced with 125s. All of this occurring in the 1928 model year.

 

In 1931, the 125s was superseded by the 1931 Plymouth carburetor, Carter type RJH-08 number 210s.

 

In 1932, the 210s was superseded by Carter type BB-1 number 245s. The Carter type BB-1 is in my top three of updraft carburetor series.

 

The Tillotson JR series (the "R" stood for replacement) was an extremely inexpensive aftermarket unit, often sold through cut-rate auto supply houses.

 

You mentioned Zenith. Zenith has made many different carburetors. The one most commonly sold today (because of price) by most vendors (including us) is an agricultural carburetor that has NO power circuit. There are about 12 different with different internal venturii sizes and physical throttle sizes. If the correct one is selected, and modified for the fuel delivery system being used, it will work fairly well in more or less level terrain; but the absence of a power circuit is less than desirable if there are hills to cross. There is also a Chinese knock-off (opinion - should be avoided at any price!) of this version.

 

Zenith also made a much better version, but they are now obsolete, so finding a new one is quite difficult.

 

Stromberg also made an excellent aftermarket carb, but like the second Zenith, more expensive than the common Zenith.

 

The Carter BB-1 number 245s mentioned above is generally in the same price range as the better Zenith. The Carter BB-1, the better Zenith, and the Stromberg are my top 3 updraft aftermarket carburetors. But since the 245s was sold as a factory replacement, this is the one I would suggest if you go aftermarket. 

 

Should you decide to go original, then obviously the last 1928 version, the Carter type 119s would be preferable. A fully restored 119s is going to be significantly more than the 245s or the better Zenith or Stromberg, and other than being prettier, is no where near as good a carburetor.

 

Jon

[ECCO Machine]

4 hours ago, carbking said:

The 1928 Chrysler model 52 had a number of different carburetors.

 

Early production used a Carter type RAJH-0 number 100s which was basically a "tweak" of the 1927 model.

 

This carb was quickly replaced with Carter type RJH-08 number 112s, which was then replaced with 119s which was then replaced with 125s. All of this occurring in the 1928 model year.

 

In 1931, the 125s was superseded by the 1931 Plymouth carburetor, Carter type RJH-08 number 210s.

 

In 1932, the 210s was superseded by Carter type BB-1 number 245s. The Carter type BB-1 is in my top three of updraft carburetor series.

 

The Tillotson JR series (the "R" stood for replacement) was an extremely inexpensive aftermarket unit, often sold through cut-rate auto supply houses.

 

You mentioned Zenith. Zenith has made many different carburetors. The one most commonly sold today (because of price) by most vendors (including us) is an agricultural carburetor that has NO power circuit. There are about 12 different with different internal venturii sizes and physical throttle sizes. If the correct one is selected, and modified for the fuel delivery system being used, it will work fairly well in more or less level terrain; but the absence of a power circuit is less than desirable if there are hills to cross. There is also a Chinese knock-off (opinion - should be avoided at any price!) of this version.

 

Zenith also made a much better version, but they are now obsolete, so finding a new one is quite difficult.

 

Stromberg also made an excellent aftermarket carb, but like the second Zenith, more expensive than the common Zenith.

 

The Carter BB-1 number 245s mentioned above is generally in the same price range as the better Zenith. The Carter BB-1, the better Zenith, and the Stromberg are my top 3 updraft aftermarket carburetors. But since the 245s was sold as a factory replacement, this is the one I would suggest if you go aftermarket. 

 

Should you decide to go original, then obviously the last 1928 version, the Carter type 119s would be preferable. A fully restored 119s is going to be significantly more than the 245s or the better Zenith or Stromberg, and other than being prettier, is no where near as good a carburetor.

 

Jon

Thanks for all the info!

A little searching isn't turning up much on the BB-1 245s for sale.   Do you have one of these on hand that's rebuilt/rebuildable, or one of the Zenith or Stromberg units you recommend?  I'm not looking for cheap, I want this car to run as well as it can on today's fuels (we do have 87 octane ethanol free available here).

[carbking]

ECCO - I am sold out of the BB-1 245s carburetors. I do have one of the Strombergs; HOWEVER: as the 245s is a factory suggested replacement, I would suggest a bit of patience; as they do turn up, and go with the 245s.

 

If you wish to discuss this further, my office phone is 573-392-7378 (9-12, 1-5 Mon-Tues central time).

 

Jon

[tcslr]

I have a Carter BB-1 on my 1929 75. Very satisfied. 

[viv w]

In the 70's before internet made finding things easier, I built my series 52 and it came with a Ford model A, Zenith carburettor. The car ran perfectly with that carb for over 20 years with absolutely no issues and plenty of power.

 My car was a right hand drive and the only modification I had to make was drilling a hole in the firewall and the steering column support bracket, this was so that I could use a choke rod to operate the choke and gas adjusting valve.

 As your car is LHD, you may have to make a bracket under the dash to support the choke rod.

[Dandy Dave]

Nice old Ryerson Lathe. Never heard of them before. Did they become Cincinnati Machine tools? I did make a gear for an old Cincinnati Milling machine once. Glad to see you have the car and transmission back together. Sweet deal. May it give you many trouble free and fun miles. 

Edited September 27, 2023 by Dandy Dave (see edit history)