The collector car world is in the midst of a generational transition

[Melanie Harwood]

19 minutes ago, Walt G said:

Very sorry to read this , so print publications should cease to exist and only on line articles, stories, history should be published. If so I am done and will look at my vast collection of printed material as archaic and need to be boxed and placed in a dark area to be rediscovered in generations in the distant future. I do not agree. Electronic resources are indeed important , but as a former art teacher , electronic generated anything  is nice but is only creative by what can be found that has been posted to be used. What about all the other ideas etc that are in peoples imagination? History has been captured in print, that printed data can be destroyed by fire, flood etc. but electronic data can evaporate in one mis click of a button, some regained but a lot just lost/gone.

Data so far as names/address/ etc for sending communication asap is understood and appreciated. It is easily accessed by a mass of people - I have seen this in a thread on old images I started 3 1/2 years ago here. But if all of this material were not a "hard copy" what would we have ? should it be dismissed?

I will admit I am "old school" - "Archaic" , one of the fogies of automotive history but in order to remain viable and not depend upon electricity to always be there at the flick of a finger I still think a print publication should be appreciated. Not everyone goes on line every day to read a newspaper, magazine etc. to stare at a screen. Will classrooms in schools all become on line TV screens to learn from?

We all have an opinion and can agree to disagree.

WEG

Hi Walt! I feel like I know you just because Matt mentions you often and always in a positive way. He thinks very highly of you and I know he enjoys your work. I do think you have kind of taken my comments a bit out of context by focusing on one word rather than the intent of my comments. I'm sure you know, Matt is the editor of "Northern Lights," the magazine for the CCCA Ohio Region and we have been putting the magazine out for more than eight years now. In fact, Matt (and our family) generate about 90% of the content. If we didn't think a printed magazine was worthwhile we wouldn't do it. So I think you've misconstrued my message.

 

My only point (and apologies to Steve Moskowitz if they apply) was that car clubs in particular seem inclined to cling to the old ways longer than they should simply because of the demographics of their membership. There was INCREDIBLE push-back and even a lot of anger when we switched to online registration for our show. There are still some guys who refuse to use it and ask for a paper form, but literally 99% of the people have figured it out. The show is thriving and runs smoother than ever and young people are participating more than before. It works better with less work from our admittedly elderly volunteers. I'm proud of that.

 

I didn't mean to make it about magazines. I love them and read them all. The AACA magazine is excellent and serves its membership extremely well. But just the fact that there's a whole discussion right now about incorrect pages in the most recent mailing highlights my point. Mail, envelopes, filling out forms and mailing them back worked years ago but in today's world there are tools at our disposal that not only help the recipients but also the people doing the work. And those tools, coincidentally, will help attract and retain a younger generation. That sounds like a win for everyone does it not?

[Shootey]

I went into the Strand Bookstore in Manhattan the other day and loved browsing their collection of Automobile Quarterly issues. I bought one for $15 to read on my flight back to San Francisco. 

[Walt G]

Hi Melanie

Yes, I focused my comments on the printed publications, did not address the registrations for car shows. But I do know what it is like to deal with mailed registrations - even 40 years ago when I ran the Franklin club annual meet they call a trek. Not only the car registrations but also took care of all the room accommodations/food etc paperwork . Been there done that, I never comment on some thing I have not had first hand experience in .

I am aware of the Ohio CCCA region effort on publications - Editors are supposed to edit not write the whole magazine or research that but they indeed do , been there done that too.  Yes, this is , and we are in a new era of communication - the forums are a prime example of that, but the old ways can not be ignored nor cast aside even though they may be a giant PITA. 🤩 I not only look at this from a car guy standpoint but from being active as an appointed historian for the village I live in and that is state mandated by law required to have one. SO see a broad picture of publications both print and electronic. I do appreciate both.

My view is more towards the publications as you mention, always will be and that is because it is something that all members of a club etc get for their annual $ , don't have to participate in anything else but are equal in the activity because they get a publication.

We are good, thanks for your compliments , I am just an old storyteller who is fortunate to have gathered a lot of material to look at to pass forward to all I can.

Walt

[CChinn]

The most recent post on this thread has provided an interesting revelation for me. Like all organizations that operate in the 21st century, there is a need for AACA to keep up with technology and the new ways of operating a club/business. Steve has provided us with insights into how AACA leadership is accomplishing that. But this club is primarily about maintaining originality of antique cars or restoring them to how they came off the factory floor. For some modernizing an old car or customizing one is verboten. Does the purpose behind these 2 goals conflict with each other?  Perhaps explains the dilemma for AACA membership, leadership and forum readers that is inherent in this thread?  For full transparency, I work for an IT company, but I am a 65 year old dinosaur who has adjusted to technology in the workplace. However, I still like to read an actual book, newspaper or magazine in my hands and not on a screen. 

Edited May 13, 2023 by CChinn (see edit history)

[Steve Moskowitz]

56 minutes ago, CChinn said:

The most recent post on this thread has provided an interesting revelation for me. Like all organizations that operate in the 21st century, there is a need for AACA to keep up with technology and the new ways of operating a club/business. Steve has provided us with insights into how AACA leadership is accomplishing that. But this club is primarily about maintaining originality of antique cars or restoring them to how they came off the factory floor. For some modernizing an old car or customizing one is verboten. Does the purpose behind these 2 goals conflict with each other?  Perhaps explains the dilemma for AACA membership, leadership and forum readers that is inherent in this thread?  For full transparency, I work for an IT company, but I am a 65 year old dinosaur who has adjusted to technology in the workplace. However, I still like to read an actual book, newspaper or magazine in my hands and not on a screen. 

I believe they are exclusive.  Modernizing our means of communication and technology only help us spread the word quicker and farther.  While we have 3,000,000 plus items in our library we are digitizing at a fast clip, not to replace our literature as the actual examples are important to history, but to make it easier to respond to copy requests, etc. 

 

We strongly believe in history and preservation but technology for our part has very little to do with our average membership age.  Based on our data our members are more and more attuned to modern methods although maybe with a few grumbles.  We simply cannot survive doing things in the same old way.  It probably is what irks me the most as people say or infer we are resistant to change when we are constantly changing, modifying, etc. all that we do.  I remember the grief all too well when we switch from landscape to portrait for our magazine...some were ready to boil West and me in oil.  We knew it was the right thing to do and took our lumps. This forum itself has gone through multiple providers and constant updates. We are on our third major revision of this website.  The list is far more than most people realize.

 

I won't belabor anymore  that we have issues with upgrading everything we would like but we are working towards the day that we can fulfill those improvements.  If you are a dinosaur at 65 I am not sure what that makes me and others.  Trade you birthdays!

 

Melanie, there was one incorrect page in less than a 1/4 of the magazines sent out and it was not in the magazine but just the carrier sheet (address).  If members were not contacted by us it means they got the correct material. Needed to clarify that lest someone is looking for what is wrong. Whether it is printed or digital mistakes can be made.  We have to do what is best for the majority of our membership and at this time they are strongly in favor of us continuing to print it.  We also do get it monthly digitally and post it on our website but will be discussing further a feature for members to get digital copies.  As I mentioned our monthly e-newsletter is all digital and goes out to approximately 30,000 email address and our group Facebook page I believe is around 22,000 along with the 25,000 or so active users here on our forums. We are trying to make sure our members have what they need to be informed.

 

 

[Paul Dobbin]

I have to agree with Melanie, we need to modernize some things and train the Old Geezers like me in the process,   Example:

For years I wrote and edited our local club's Newsletter.   When the newsletter was ready to print, I would print it an take it to Office Depot for Printing or Copying,  Then pick it up and take to a member to fold, Staple and mail.   I even printed the address labels and bought the stamps, all of which which was expensive and time comsuming.   Office Depot said, "Do you write this all on a Computer"?    Why don't  you email it to us for printing?,  Here's how!   

The Club decided to charge $5.00 extra dues for mailed Newsletters.   There was nearly a revolt over that and the dues stayed at $20.

a year and  the club ate the cost.   Next problem was after we changed to a color newsletter on the Internet format an the Old Geezers complained the the Newsletter used up to much color ink.   

We had some articles about saving newsletters to files and eliminate the need to print them, but always having a personal archive of old club News.   How to articles are appreciated by all.

There is hope that the Old Geezers like me can learn new tricks and maybe submit some the endless Car Show Stories to the Newsletter for publication.   Registrations and renewals can be easy to.   I could even learn to like tour information an Show flyers on the Internet in printable formats.   You don't have to stop mail in requests, but go back to sending $5.00 with the request for printed stuff, like we did in the old days where Geezers Dwell'

[1937hd45]

11 hours ago, Shootey said:

I went into the Strand Bookstore in Manhattan the other day and loved browsing their collection of Automobile Quarterly issues. I bought one for $15 to read on my flight back to San Francisco. 

I remember buying Vol. One # 1 at the Barrett Book Shop in Stamford Ct. it was a magical moment, some time around 1961. Somehow it wound up in a box in the basement with other early issues and is now water damaged, I need to treat myself to replacements. Bob 

[keithb7]

I’m a Gen-x’r I guess. 1971. It doesn’t mean much to me.  I like flathead era cars. They mostly were replaced by the mid-50’s. So from the horseless wagon to about ‘53 is my preference. Currently I own two 1938 year flathead Mopars. I’m not really interested in old cars that are extremely popular. I’ll pass right by the Tri 5 Chevy, Mustang, Camaro, Corvettes ect and any car show. Far too many are there. I’m actually not overly interested in winning any trophies with my ‘38 cars. The trophy is the car. I get to maintain and drive it! 

[John_S_in_Penna]

Here's a point that hasn't been mentioned yet:

 

There is ALWAYS a transition as newer, younger car fans

become interested in cars.  It's continuous, and it has

always been going on.

 

The categories of "Baby Boomer" and "Generations X, Y, Z"

are arbitrary.  They are man-made.  Notice, too, that each

"generation" is about 16 years long, whereas a true human

generation averages about 30 years.

 

So the "transition" from one to another generation is only

based on man-made categories.  It's nothing momentous!

 

[Steve Moskowitz]

This thread was temporarily removed as we had a couple of posts that became too personal.  I want to make it clear that AACA can live with debate and live with dissent.  We do not expect everyone to agree with how the club operates and the thread was taken down by a moderator when it became personal.  It is back up as you can tell.  However, if it personal attacks start up again and becomes uncivil then I will  reluctantly take it down.

[PWN]

On 5/13/2023 at 11:09 PM, 1937hd45 said:

I remember buying Vol. One # 1 at the Barrett Book Shop in Stamford Ct. it was a magical moment, some time around 1961. Somehow it wound up in a box in the basement with other early issues and is now water damaged, I need to treat myself to replacements. Bob 

While returning from dropping the Chandler engine off to get some work done at Godwin Singe in St. Pete, my wife and I passed by Haslams (a huge book store in Old St. Pete). After a minute or two we decided to turn back and check out the store.

 

In the automotive section I found an entire shelf of "Automotive Quarterly" and randomly pulled a magazine out. I happened to open to the only detailed Chandler article the journal had published in it's MANY years of print and low and behold, there was a photograph of my very own Dispatch! It was sitting in my Grandfathers drive way and I could see his orange grove in the background. Wow, you think my long deceased Grandfather led me to that magazine?

[1937hd45]

Great story! I do believe in those special moments. Last week I sold a postage stamp, collector stamp. Took the stamp storage box off the self, and noticed a stamp on the floor upside down. Turned it over and it was the stamp I sold!

[CarNucopia]

On 5/13/2023 at 8:29 AM, Steve Moskowitz said:

Minutes are not published and quite frankly would do little good in having a clear understanding of all that goes on as we have been advised by our legal counsel on keeping minutes extremely tight.  We do have roundtable meetings at virtually every national show where members can ask the board questions, complain, praise or whatever.  The board communicates through a multitude of media options.

 

1.  Naturally a key metric is our membership numbers, our retention of current members and our gaining of new members.  We measure a lot of individual portions of where our members are coming from.  It is a key challenge for the club.  Of course there are many other metrics used in attendance at events, number of regions and chapters, financial health, growth of our library, etc.

 

2.  Simple, our By-Laws and Policy & Procedure govern our relationship with the regions.  They only requirement they have with us is to submit Officer's Reporting Form and Roster once a year and ensure all members are members of national.  Our by-laws and policy & procedures can be found on this website's home page.  Our regions all handle their own financials and do not report them to us at all.

 

3.This is an area that we have failed miserably and recently we formed a committee to seek outside help in finalizing a meaningful marketing plan.  A big issue in this area is a lack of funds to do all that we would like to but we are doing our best to address that now.

 

I sorry you felt it insulting, it was not meant to be but it is also insulting to all of us who are busting our tails on behalf of this club to constantly listen to snide an inappropriate remarks from people who are not members and who are not involved.  They do this on our forums which are free to them but cost this club a ton. Our board is not paid and volunteers across the country are all trying to make AACA stronger.  Let's also look at your communication thoughts.  Our magazine is thriving and it is the one constant praise the board hears from our members.  Advertisers are sticking with us and we have not had to resort to reducing the quality of the magazine like many others.  Not all magazines are dead, just look at the news today about the sale of Forbes for 800 million.  Timely?  How about our monthly e-newsletter Speedster which is almost 15 years or more old.  On top of that we communicate through emails constantly through Constant Contact and we consistently have open rates far exceeding the industry average.  As I said before we also open up meetings to our members to express their thoughts at our events, we have these forums, Facebook pages (two pages one for official club and one for a group with a huge following).

 

I have always prided myself i being reasonable and fair in my posts on this forum.  However, everyone has a breaking point and maybe I was unduly harsh but it was not aimed at one person although I know a couple commenting are not AACA members and have not been for years so how in the world do they think they know what is going on.  AACA just completed a massive project with its new headquarters and new library and acquired a large portion of the Free Library of Philadelphia's automotive collection.  Those were massive projects and were done with no debt to the club.  When you add in all the new features we are installing here and all the hard work we are putting into future events and membership it does get under my skin at times that the work of our great staff and board are not appreciated.  Same with managing this forum.

 

To sum it up, in my opinion, we have to do better.  We all recognize that and are seeking answers to our problems which are prevalent throughout the hobby.  We can't do it alone, we need dedicated members to get involved, join a committee or run for the board.  There is an ad in this month's issue trying to recruit candidates.  The fact is, that despite all the challenges we are working hard for the future.  Failure is not an option.

 

Thanks for the reply. 

 

The most common answer I've heard to "Failure is not an option" is "Organizations don't plan to fail, they fail to plan". Based on your answer to my third question, I'll offer that this is the core problem with the AACA. It's why you work your tails off and still get criticized for not accomplishing enough. None of my points are directed towards staff. I'm sure they are dedicated and working in earnest to advance the AACA. I'd guess the same holds true for you and the Board. That said, success is measured in results, not effort. Yes, the AACA is definitely making progress. The hard reality is the environment it exists in is changing even faster. 

 

You mentioned the Board holds roundtables and communicates through other means. (I'm not sure what the other means are). Only having access to the board at national events limits who can offer opinions and skews the sentiment. It's a small percentage of the total membership and I doubt it gives the board an accurate reflection of what the majority think.  There should be a Members Only Roundtable on this platform to discuss issues with the board. The board needs to have an ongoing dialog with members. This forum is the only continual two-way communication channel the AACA has, as far as I know.

 

The other area I want to offer an opinion is on the relationship with Regions and Divisions. As I said before, I'm surprised the Club does not have more say in these relationships. You have offered this fact as a reason why certain issues, like registration, don't get improved. The sentiment is "Case Closed". Is there a reason the bylaws can't be changed to require more governance? The phone call you and I had earlier this year on my experience in this area should be a red flag that there is a problem

 

To summarize, I DMed you because I wanted to get involved with the AACA on a local level. I live in a fairly populated area and have five Regions/Divisions close enough to participate in. I contacted all of them via the email links on the Club's directory and did not receive a single reply. When I shared this with you, your reply seemed like one of genuine surprise and you said "We used to have a strong presence in your area". If the Club's existence in an area can diminish to the point of obscurity without the Club knowing it, there is a problem.

 

I have no doubt there are Regions/Divisions that are run great. Does the AACA collect best practices from them? Is there a forum for the folks in these organizations to share ideas, successes and failures? Should there be stricter minimum requirements to maintain good standing? Local organizations operating under the AACA banner are the front line in interacting with the public and recruiting new members. I'm of the belief that this is too important a task to leave unstructured and unmonitored.

 

I just want to reiterate my criticism is not at all about the staff. The AACA does many things great. I am very appreciative of the aspects of the Club that help me enjoy being a car-guy even more. This is an organization I want to see thrive and endure. I am concerned because I don't believe Leadership completely understands the challenges of the modern environment and they lack a strategic process to identify and address them. 

 

 

Edited May 16, 2023 by CarNucopia (see edit history)

[edinmass]

 

 

I have probably belonged to no less than 35 car clubs over the years......some off and on, some as a life member for more than 37 years. I have not seen ANY club recently....say the last 15 years more responsive and professional than the AACA. I am a dinosaur. I'm guilty of being a pain in the ass..........but I often offer suggestions to Steve and a few of the others at national..............that said, I have always felt welcomed and respected even when we disagree on things. ( Once I thought I was wrong, but then discovered I was mistaken.) I consider Steve a good and close friend, eventhough recently we don't get to spend much personal one on one time together......it's been about five years since he and I had a quiet lunch together.  Just for the official record........he has saved the club and brought it into the modern era......literally put his health and reputation on the line........and the entire organization has been improved by leaps and bounds because of his efforts.  The name on the new building should be "The Stephen Moskowitz AACA Club Headquarters Building", as he literally pulled it out of the ground and built it with his own two hands. So, it's official and I will say in public.........Thank You Steve for all you have done for the club, the hobby, and the friendship you have shared with me. 

 

Steve.....will the new had I gave you at Amelia still fit? 🤔

 

 

Edited May 16, 2023 by edinmass (see edit history)

[8E45E]

On 5/13/2023 at 8:48 AM, STEVE POLLARD said:

Agree Walt !  There's a place and time for everything......for me, I enjoy sitting in my easy chair, lousy television turned off and the AACA Magazine in hand...

The very LAST thing to go after I downsize will be my book/magazine/literature collection (some of which I posted here:  

  

I am actually still adding to it.

 

I haven't owned a modern TV that picks up modern broadcast signals for a good 20 years.

 

Craig

[Steve Moskowitz]

Ed, at least you could spell my name right!   Thanks...I do my best.

 

Shaun ( I am thinking this is you) you have some good ideas and thoughts but you also have the option of contacting our board as their contact info is on this website and in the magazine.  That is another way of reaching officials and is definitely two way!  As far as the forums and a members only area, I will bring that up at the next board meeting in July.  I have my doubts about its effectiveness as we too often only hear from the disgruntled or happy members and not the silent majority.  Basing decisions on a few vocal people who may not be speaking for the majority or who may not be involved is problematic.  I spent enough time in my career getting flawed results from surveys and focus groups to know that the entire arena of communications is an issue.

 

Of course the by-laws can be changed.  How far we can go with changes is an entirely different matter.  What might seem simple to many is not so simple.  Just like our federal government pushing states, many push back.  It is also a case of working in a volunteer organization, unless you have spent time in our shoes it is hard to understand the dynamic.  We have seen many different organizations implode by dictatorial leadership.  The fact is that we are working on solutions and making a lot of progress in a lot of areas.  Anyone visiting this building would understand the massive project we have completed and fully funded.  It is going to allow us to do more and more.  We recognize that some of what we do is limiting us.  All I can say is our board does discuss these things and is looking for solutions in many areas.

 

We do have ways to share best practices with our regions and do have four directors who have the responsibility of working with our regions. You may not realize we publish a newsletter strictly for our regions and chapters officers. We have tried other means to work with our regions/chapters but sadly some were not well received.  Again, it is a challenge working with so many regions and chapters of volunteers who have various levels of enthusiasm.  

 

Not enough progress? I do not wish to direct any criticism to any other club but I sincerely doubt any club in this country has come close to having the progress we have especially over the last decade.  I've already listed a few of the accomplishments. I disagree with finding fault with my last statement.  The fact is that we as a board and staff felt that we needed more professional help in the area of marketing proves the board is serious.  There simply was not enough experience in this area by all of us to develop and affordable and effective plan.  So we are interviewing agencies.  We are also going through a rewrite of our strategic plan on top of working towards a marketing solution.

 

To sum it up, I appreciate that you are giving thought to our problems.  Feel free to write our board officers.  You are articulate and fair but please understand that things are NOT as simple as you may think otherwise they would have been solved many moons ago.  No one would disagree with you, not me or the board that we need to make more progress.  We have a number of people who are "putting their money where their mouth is" so to speak and working very, very hard on advancing the club.

[1935Packard]

Steve, thanks for all you do for the club, and for the forum, too.  It sounds like a lot of hard work, and we appreciate it.

[edinmass]

Actually Steve, I spelled it correctly, than spellcheck changed it ( I actually checked to be sure it was correct, and then got shafted by the Apple machine.)…….can’t blame the machine, those weird catholic Italian names can be difficult for man or machine. Maybe you should change your last name to something easier…………I can think of a bunch of them that the staff calls you…….but it’s not repeatable here. 

[CChinn]

CarNucopia, if you have the time &/or desire, run for election to the AACA Board of Directors. As a Board Member you could work to enact the solutions you have articulated in your posts. You obviously have put some time and energy into thinking about problems you see and solutions to those problems and discussed them privately with Steve. Step up and run for a board position 

[Paul Dobbin]

It's not just the car world, the sports world too!   Sports Illustrated has a cover photo of Martha Stewart @ age 81.   

 

 

[1912Staver]

4 hours ago, 8E45E said:

The very LAST thing to go after I downsize will be my book/magazine/literature collection (some of which I posted here:  

  

I am actually still adding to it.

 

I haven't owned a modern TV that picks up modern broadcast signals for a good 20 years.

 

Craig

I am in the middle of a move. Not very far, { about a 15 - 20 Min. drive }  but you never even dream of how much  " stuff " you have Squirreled away until moving time. I have a sizable car hobby related, book and magazine collection. Unfortunately a good chunk of it is ending up in the thrift store pile. Mostly magazines but quite a few " general " car books as well. Quite a bit of Parts / parts vehicles heading for the scrap yard as well. It breaks my heart to scrap things that I know someone somewhere might need, but I have a firm deadline to be out of the old place and I just don't have the time or strength to move it all. Sold to a developer and as soon as my agreed rent back ends { new owner wanted me out sooner , but I was able to negotiate a couple of extra months. But paying thru the nose on the rent } , the bulldozer moves in.

Edited May 16, 2023 by 1912Staver (see edit history)

[PWN]

53 minutes ago, 1912Staver said:

I am in the middle of a move. Not very far, { about a 15 - 20 Min. drive }  but you never even dream of how much  " stuff " you have Squirreled away until moving time. I have a sizable car hobby related, book and magazine collection. Unfortunately a good chunk of it is ending up in the thrift store pile. Mostly magazines but quite a few " general " car books as well. Quite a bit of Parts / parts vehicles heading for the scrap yard as well. It breaks my heart to scrap things that I know someone somewhere might need, but I have a firm deadline to be out of the old place and I just don't have the time or strength to move it all. Sold to a developer and as soon as my agreed rent back ends { new owner wanted me out sooner , but I was able to negotiate a couple of extra months. But paying thru the nose on the rent } , the bulldozer moves in.

I don't know I should be sad or happy for you...I wish you the best.

 

Peter

Edited May 17, 2023 by PWN (see edit history)

[Avanti Bill]

Overall I think the AACA staff and board do a good job!  As can be see from reading this thread not everyone agrees with change but most will accept it in time.  I think we all need to bend over backwards to keep the club successful and support the staff all we can.  The cars are changing too and am I'm concerned that we need to be more inclusive as I feel like we are missing out on making new friends.  Having said that I do not want the club to change so dramatically that we start loosing friends!  

[1912Staver]

1 hour ago, PWN said:

I don't know I should be sad or happy for you...I wish you the best.

 

Peter

The new place is a big improvement. Old place had many problems , mostly age, original poor construction, built by a farm family themselves during the Great Depression, and our very wet climate. But also a substantial $ cost to make it happen. Really bad idea to once again have a mortgage { not huge , but not small either } as a retiree.  But a very natural and private location. A somewhat bigger shop, and quite a bit more outside storage. But just not enough time to move it all . Downside of selling to a developer is that they want to get things moving as soon as possible. The longer time spent from purchase , the further away the payday is.

[CarNucopia]

5 hours ago, Steve Moskowitz said:

To sum it up, I appreciate that you are giving thought to our problems.  Feel free to write our board officers.  You are articulate and fair but please understand that things are NOT as simple as you may think otherwise they would have been solved many moons ago.  No one would disagree with you, not me or the board that we need to make more progress.  We have a number of people who are "putting their money where their mouth is" so to speak and working very, very hard on advancing the club.

Looks like you went back and read my original DM, which I appreciate. I'm encouraged by the fact that you are looking for outside direction in areas you feel need addressing.

 

One last point I'd like to make, then I think I've covered the topic. I believe it's important that people who support you and express opinions like Ed understand that their view and my view are not mutually exclusive. Great deeds and great challenges can and do coexist.  

 

3 hours ago, CChinn said:

CarNucopia, if you have the time &/or desire, run for election to the AACA Board of Directors. As a Board Member you could work to enact the solutions you have articulated in your posts. You obviously have put some time and energy into thinking about problems you see and solutions to those problems and discussed them privately with Steve. Step up and run for a board position 

That's something I'd consider at the appropriate time. I've been in other volunteer boards and enjoyed the experience. It's important to me to understand an organization better before making that level of commitment.  As such, I was hoping to get involved on a local level and see if there were opportunities to volunteer nationally in a marketing capacity since that's how I spent my career. Instead, I got involved elsewhere when I hit a brick wall.

 

I was 

[Ed Luddy]

The younger generation need to step up and take over. When I was a car crazy kid my grandfather was one of the original local engine builders for "hop up" as well as stock. My uncles and Dad built "gow jobs" under their Dad's shop roof and machine shop. I still am a car guy, but after retirement and a few problems it's well past time to let the new crew take over with my blessing. I'll still do minor stuff, but as Clint said "A man has to know his limitations" 

[Ed Luddy]

 

[8E45E]

10 hours ago, 1912Staver said:

The new place is a big improvement. Old place had many problems , mostly age, original poor construction, built by a farm family themselves during the Great Depression, and our very wet climate. But also a substantial $ cost to make it happen. Really bad idea to once again have a mortgage { not huge , but not small either } as a retiree.  But a very natural and private location. A somewhat bigger shop, and quite a bit more outside storage. But just not enough time to move it all . Downside of selling to a developer is that they want to get things moving as soon as possible. The longer time spent from purchase , the further away the payday is.

IF I lived closer, I'd definitely offer to help with the move.  I hate to see stuff permanently lost for that reason.   

 

I do know what one accumulates by the time they are 65; especially if they have 'stayed put' in one place for 30 or more years. (Including me!)  I have just begun downsizing, starting with the non-automotive items, like vintage radios, etc.  Because I am starting at what I consider 'early' for age in downsizing, I am not giving things away that actually have value, but, just the same, I'm not going to waste my time listing "collectible" junk on Ebay where there are ten pages of the same 'collectible, rare' items for $1 a piece.  I donated all those items which were usually gifts from my mom, or gas station giveaways to the local thrift store which supports our veterans.

 

Craig

Edited May 17, 2023 by 8E45E (see edit history)

[Steve Moskowitz]

Shaun, did not look back at your DM.  I have had your email sitting on my calendar for several reasons.  I had some thoughts about your involvement in tours.  Anyway, I will be in Chicago a lot more in the coming year and maybe we can get a chance to meet and talk.  Someone dropped the ball in getting back to you and I will seek them out again.  Done here for now, getting ready for our 500 plus car show in Gettysburg this weekend.  

 

Ed, Ed, Ed....you spelled my first name wrong!  You had two shots and getting it right and obviously the shot of Crown Royal affected you!  

[billorn]

5 hours ago, Steve Moskowitz said:

Ed, Ed, Ed....you spelled my first name wrong!  You had two shots and getting it write and obviously the shot of Crown Royal affected you!  

 

I guess this was a case of being in a glass house!  Steve

[CarNucopia]

@Steve Moskowitz Let me know when you're in the area. I'll happily make time for a longer conversation.

[60FlatTop]

Over the years I discovered I am a Baby Boomer with a Gen X work ethic. Must be the confidence my mother instilled in me. At 75 I generally embrace the leading edge.

 

I had not paid much attention to this thread until today. Technologically I noticed that I hand set my cursor on the page pull down and the longer I read the faster I was scrolling. I guess that is an example of how well one adapts to technology.

 

The article. Did you hear about the three statisticians who went rabbit hunting? Add them to Hagerty who launches a campaign of continuous communication and my thoughts go back to nineteenth century farming days, fodder.

[TTR]

I've recently had conversations related to this topic with several acquaintances & friends, most who are and have been lifelong (i.e. several decades) participants in the hobby of antique/classic/vintage cars and asked them questions whether they grew up with a parent(s) or grandparent(s) enthusiastically/seriously involved with this hobby and whether or not the children or grandchildren of these same "acquaintances & friends" are seriously interested about the hobby.

Just about all said their parents/grandparent weren't into this nor are their children/grandchildren.

 

I also asked if any of them can recall others that I may not know of who may have been influenced by their family members, i.e. parents/grandparents/uncles/etc OR if these individuals have younger generation family members who have become involved with this hobby and it seems majority experiences are same as those by I personally know and questioned.

 

The few examples of younger generation representatives who have became involved with older cars don't seem to be interested in same type of cars as their parents/grandparents/etc. Same with those in my generation who were influenced by older generation family members.

 

And for what it's worth, it also appears anyone I questioned acknowledged/commented that they don't really care or worry about what happens to their cars or the hobby in general after they're gone, since they're all into this for personal enjoyment/leisure. If their heirs decide to sell everything for peanuts or throw all into dumpster, so be it.

 

So in conclusion, all this ^^ confirmed what I've always believed that this "generational transition" is nothing new or specific to our hobby.

It's just part of the evolution of our species. Nothing will ever stay the same and in few generations, there won't be many interested or even able to directly relate to the cars we currently hold dear.

Edited September 30, 2023 by TTR (see edit history)

[1912Staver]

I was influenced by my father and an uncle. But I prefer cars that are different than what they liked. My father was a big fan of " Classic Era " American cars. But by the time I came along the price of such cars was way beyond what my father could afford. When he was first driving in the early / mid 1950's such cars were very reasonably priced. But being young it was all he could afford just to have a 1940 Ford sedan and then a 1949 Ford sedan as transportation. Later on when he was more established the prices of the circa 1930 - 34 cars he really liked had ballooned out of reach. So I spent my youth attending shows and the odd sale as spectators , never old car hobby participants. My uncle liked early 1950 U.S. cars , and owned several when I was of pre driving age. These cars never appealed to either my father or myself all that much.

 For me it has been the later " Brass Era " cars that are my very long term interest  { about 1908 - 1914 or so }. { that and post war British sports cars , but they are not what I concider " vintage cars " ]. 

 But of course a actual running - driving brass car is a very expensive thing these days. So I took on a incomplete , basket case 1912 car that I could afford. Afford to buy at least, but as time has proven really not afford to restore. So still a spectator at vintage car events, and likely to remain so. But it is the puttering away with very old car stuff that is nearly as good as driving an early car in my books. Yes , a finished / drivable car would be a dream come true, but in the meantime I can still be involved in an early car in my own way.

[Joe in Canada]

I did not see any chrome or brass so it leaves me out. Leaving for Hershey in the morning with the wife while it is still an existing event. By the looks of the future of the car hobby what I see in that article there will be no need for Hershey seeing those cars will not be projects to restore. 

[kfle]

On 5/11/2023 at 7:05 PM, Crusty Trucker said:

Please at least read this article before commenting or criticizing either the content or it's author. My opinion is that the information presented here is factual and based on current knowledge and research. Sure, this just one metric, but it's a good indication of what's to come.  It’s a rare moment that speaks to the ongoing evolution of the market’s demographics, and it punctuates Gen X’s growing influence as a trend-maker.

 

https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/enthusiasts/the-collector-car-world-is-in-the-midst-of-a-generational-transition/ar-AA1b3XUD?ocid=mailsignout&li=BBnb7Kz

Too high level in the trends to drive a sensational title.  Read this article from the Hagerty magazine last month on the Model T.  Lots of interesting data in here as well as the growing amount of interest from Gen X and millennials which is contrary to perception.  Ever popular, the Model T keeps chugging along - Hagerty Media -  there is a shift but cars like the Model T are not just disappearing as the younger generation is starting to pick them up.  So if you take this data then 42% of Model T owners that are insured with Hagerty ate Gen X, Millennial, and Gen Z. Does that percentage match up to your car club membership?  The younger generations dont participate in the typical club models of today and the clubs have become a bit of an echo chamber of doom and gloom.  This year at the Greenfield Village Old Car festival it was the most younger people participating that I have ever seen there.  A long way to go, but times are a changing, but that doesnt mean that younger people are not getting into early cars, it just means that there is a shift on how people get their car support and what everyone is exposed to. 

 

 

Edited October 1, 2023 by kfle (see edit history)

[1912Staver]

Number one problem with model T ownership; regardless of the age of the owner , is the very limited speed, very poor braking ability. Compared to modern , normal road traffic. Unless you live in a very quiet area , or are prepared to trailer the car to a quiet area, they are a not very enjoyable driving experence.

 Ideal for someone living in a rural small town or farming area. But if you are a city or even many suburbs then it may at times feel like every other driver on the road is trying to cut your life short. 

 Even in the semi rural area where I live { mix of hobby farms, working farms and some subdivisions traffic is usually very fast paced. { a fair clip over the speed limit is standard , and every day at least one or two pass me going way, way over the limit. } At least the tractors and farm wagons are quite large. No one in a pick up truck is going to try to muscle over on a 8 ton + tractor, but a little car like a T is a whole different matter. If you live well out in the country then why not. But for many of us a T just won't get used much, even if one is sitting in the garage.

[kfle]

3 minutes ago, 1912Staver said:

Number one problem with model T ownership; regardless of the age of the owner , is the very limited speed, very poor braking ability. Compared to modern , normal road traffic. Unless you live in a very quiet area , or are prepared to trailer the car to a quiet area, they are a not very enjoyable driving experence.

 Ideal for someone living in a rural small town or farming area. But if you are a city or even many suburbs then it may at times feel like every other driver on the road is trying to cut your life short. 

 Even in the semi rural area where I live { mix of hobby farms, working farms and some subdivisions traffic is usually very fast paced. { a fair clip over the speed limit is standard , and every day at least one or two pass me going way, way over the limit. } At least the tractors and farm wagons are quite large. No one in a pick up truck is going to try to muscle over on a 8 ton + tractor, but a little car like a T is a whole different matter. If you live well out in the country then why not. But for many of us a T just won't get used much, even if one is sitting in the garage.

That is not the point of my post or even the article.  The point is that there are a heck of a lot of younger people buying them up, it is irrelevant if they are good for usage today, because as you can see from Hagerty's data, there is growth in model T ownership all the way down to generation Z which is early 20's.  If a Model T is horrible for today's world then why are younger people buying them and getting insurance?????

[TTR]

1 hour ago, kfle said:

If a Model T is horrible for today's world then why are younger people buying them … ?????

Inexpensive & simple start for a hot rod perhaps ?

[1912Staver]

2 hours ago, kfle said:

That is not the point of my post or even the article.  The point is that there are a heck of a lot of younger people buying them up, it is irrelevant if they are good for usage today, because as you can see from Hagerty's data, there is growth in model T ownership all the way down to generation Z which is early 20's.  If a Model T is horrible for today's world then why are younger people buying them and getting insurance?????

I certainly did not say they are horrible. They have a good deal of simple charm.

But using one in anything but quite low volume, low speed traffic will probably not be a pleasurable experence.  I personally have no idea of why a young person would buy one. Except perhaps a older friend or familly member has exposed the younger person to the world of Model T's.

 I have a 23 year old son myself. A Model T is about the last car either he or any of his friends want.  I have a basket case 1914 T speedster that has at times been mocked up into something that looks like a more or less complete car. My son and his friends totally ignore it.

 A Skyline on the other hand would be a car any of them would latch on to except they are so blasted expensive. { most of them around here are the later 1980's - early 1990's versions }  Also the  right hand drive configuration of JDM cars is a pain in the butt that even a young person can recognise despite the towering reputation of Skylines in youth culture.

Edited October 1, 2023 by 1912Staver (see edit history)