car sales in the early days question

[tcslr]

Today, one can research and the modern process is visit the dealer and so on.  We all are very familiar with it.

 

How was this done then?  How was a lower/mid-priced car sold? ( thinking Model T and A) and then how were high-end cars sold? ( thinking Buick, Cadillac, Packard) then the highest end? ( Hispano-Suiza? Duesenberg? ).  Say from mid 30s and older?

Were there salesmen? and how did they make the sale?  How was test driving done? or not?  How was financing done? or not?

 

I realize this is a broad topic - likely many ways however, in general, what WAS the process?  

 

[Brass is Best]

Lots of good questions.

 

Yes, there were salesmen. From the beginning. James Whiteing hired Billy Durant to run Buick because Durant was the best farm machinery salesman he had ever heard of.

 

In the early years automobiles were sold in many ways. Some were sold at department stores, general stores, hardware stores, blacksmith shops and dealerships. 

 

In the 1900s thru 1910s there was not much in the way of financing. In the mid-teens some payment plans begin to come in with lower priced cars. I have a Ford Motor Company employee handbook from 1915. In that book they tell employees to save their money. Not to buy on credit. They also advise not to purchase an automobile until they have paid off a home.

 

Salesmen in Model T times asked Henry Ford if he could make the brakes work by pulling back on the steering wheel. This was because when they were teaching people to drive, they would pull back on the wheel and yell whoa. There are many stories of folks coming in and buying a car. Then telling the salesman to teach a young child to drive it because the parent had no desire to learn.

 

The First rebate on a car was offered by Henry Ford in 1930. If I remember correctly, he gave back $50 if 1 million cars were sold. Which was a great rebate and a great sales move. You can bet everybody that bought a Ford was trying to get all their friends to also buy a Ford. Afterall that was the only way you would get the rebate. 

 

I have several thirties salesman books. Packard, Cadillac and Cord. They explain in detail how to size up a prospect. Right down to looking at his shoes and watch. They also explain how to sell the car and how to test drive the car. They even tell the salesman where to put his hands on the steering wheel to show how well the car holds the road. The books also point out faults of competitors products for the salesman to mention in conversation. 

 

There is a story about a Duesenberg Murphy Roadster that was ordered by a lady in Beaver Falls Pennsylvania. She ordered the car before the market crash in 29. the car became ready just after the crash. The delivery driver took the car from Indianapolis to PA. When he arrived, she walked out and looked at the car. Then she said for what she was paying it should have a trunk rack. The shocked driver wired Indy and told them they needed a trunk rack. He then raced back. The shop sourced a Packard trunk rack. Slightly modified it and installed it post haste. Another driver then raced back to PA. with the car to get the check. They were nervous she would change her mind about buying the car.

 

 

[Shootey]

My grandfather sold Chevrolets in the ‘20’s in Monterey California. Included in the sale were driving lessons given by the salesman. The buyers had never owned cars nor driven. My grandfather would take them out to the Carmel Valley road for lessons. 
 

He told us a joke about a little old lady driving along the Carmel Valley Road. She would wander off the road. He would tell her to pull over and stop. They would start up again. Again she would wander off the road. This was repeated several times. Finally he said to her that she needed to move the steering wheel back and forth  to keep the car centered in the lane. “Oh”, she said. “I thought the steering wheel was just for resting your hands on.”  My grandfather loved to tell jokes. 

 

Edited July 7, 2022 by Shootey (see edit history)

[plymouthcranbrook]

My Mother who came to adulthood in the early 1930's talked about how car salesmen would show up at their house and take the whole family for long rides trying to encourage them to buy a car.  She said her Mother would take all nine of them packed in a car for a several hour drive and then politely thank the salesman and tell him to talk to her husband.  That said it must have worked at some point because she also talked of her Mother teaching herself to drive after a few lessons.

[John_S_in_Penna]

3 hours ago, Brass is Best said:

Yes, there were salesmen.  From the beginning.

Agreed.  One of our late AACA region members had

the 1906 Cadillac which his grandfather bought new.

He could relate his grandfather's account of buying it

in 1906, and still had many records from those early 

years.

 

In 1906, the grandfather owned a general store in a

small town.  He did his buying in Philadelphia, half a 

state away, going by rail.  One time, while there with

his sons, he went to the Cadillac-Peerless dealership,

the Automobile Sales Corporation on North Broad Street,

and ended up buying a 1906 Cadillac.  The salesman

even taught him to drive it, because owners in those days

were just graduating from horses!

 

He had the car shipped by rail.  Among the saved items

is the original salesman's business card from 1906:

 

Edited July 7, 2022 by John_S_in_Penna (see edit history)

[JRA]

Floyd Clymer 1955 book on Ford Model T offers interesting perspectives on the early car sales processes. Car demonstrations were fundamental marketing tools as well. 

[8E45E]

In the good old days loyalty and long-term relationships between salesman & customer ran deep! One hardly sees that today. In the 1950's, my grandfather on my mom's side was a repeat Buick buyer every 2-3 years, and ALWAYS made the deal through the same salesman who obviously treated him well. My grandfather on my dad's side was also a car salesman who sold Pontiacs and Buicks, and after my dad and mom married, my mom's dad continued to buy brand new Buicks from that same salesman afterwards for years. Needless to say, there was dad's dad was somewhat p*ssed over that, but that was how deep a sales relationship was back then; especially for higher-end vehicles.

Craig

[oldford]

From Wikipedia:

 

Metzger

William E. Metzger was born 1868 in Peru, Illinois. He was one of the first car salesmen, a buyer and reseller and, in the late 1890s, established possibly the first United States automobile dealership, in Detroit. He was a key figure in the Association of Licensed Automobile Manufacturers, and also promoted early races at Grosse Pointe. In 1902 he became affiliated with the Northern Motor Car Company and the same year helped organize Cadillac before taking orders at the New York Automobile Show in January 1903.

 

As told in the book, "The EMF Company", Metzger took more orders for Cadillac cars on the first day of the 1903 NY Auto Show than could be fulfilled in 6 months.

 

Frank

[TAKerry]

34 minutes ago, 8E45E said:

In the good old days loyalty and long-term relationships between salesman & customer ran deep! One hardly sees that today. In the 1950's, my grandfather on my mom's side was a repeat Buick buyer every 2-3 years, and ALWAYS made the deal through the same salesman who obviously treated him well. My grandfather on my dad's side was also a car salesman who sold Pontiacs and Buicks, and after my dad and mom married, my mom's dad continued to buy brand new Buicks from that same salesman afterwards for years. Needless to say, there was dad's dad was somewhat p*ssed over that, but that was how deep a sales relationship was back then; especially for higher-end vehicles.

Craig

I Bought my wifes Fiero from the same salesman my dad bought Pontiacs from. 

 

[Walt G]

Communication to the general public was via printed material - daily newspapers , many delivered to your home , sales - post cards in the mail, large posters in windows on display of stores . There was no computer, tv commercials, no real phone solicitations because no one had a phone and if they did it was a "party ;line" were several people were on the same phone line and you had to have an operator dial the call for you ( Lily Tomlin "number please")  roof top huge billboards many illuminated in cities , brick walls painted with an ad to sell a particular make of car - usually most seen if the building was near a railroad line.

Vehicles were delivered by railroad or dealerships or factories would have "mass driveaways" as a publicity stunt and men would drive the car to a larger city as a destination. following each other.  When dealerships became more popular and had showroom windows the windows on the inside were painted to tell of the new cars or models arrival. It was a big deal. Many dealers in more populated areas were owned by the same person/family. They had the franchise. The Pase family in NY had dealerships in NY City, Brooklyn, and Huntington on long island. There was a major network of Dodge dealerships on western long island as well.

Yes, salesmen kept a list of customers who bought cars from them - remember the dealer promo models that were given away? in the 1940s to 1970s era?

All this stuff cost the dealership - they had to buy it , the car manufacturer did not give it to them, large deluxe sales literature was paid for ( each copy) by the dealership - so were not given to every kid who pressed his nose up to look at the cars against the showroom window. ( if they got anything it was a small sales folder)

Owners of dealerships usually lived in the same town as their dealership was in or very close by. Peter Houser was the local Packard dealer in Floral Park, NY where I live and he lived a 5 minute walk from the front door of his business.

Annual auto shows ( big cities and even smaller out lying villages) were a ritual, the expensive luxury cars were showcased in annual salons held in a four cities in Hotel ballrooms,. all the hotels were owned by the same company - NY, Chicago, San Francisco and Los Angeles. It was a huge social event and by invitation only ( chauffeurs saw the cars during the day and people who bought them at night)

[32buick67]

Western Union was another technique for marketing/sales blasts which relied heavily on hand-delivered literature: 

 

[34CR12]

     It's been fascinating reading these posts explaining what buying a new car was like way back when.  I especially like the reports of "free driving lessons" if you bought a new car!

 

[JACK M]

I had a guy arrange to test drive a boat that was on the lot.

He showed up with wife and kids along with their inner tubes and skis.

I said meet me at the river and leave at least the kids on shore and if you want to buy we will have to come back and do the deal.

Wife said, "told Ya !!"

Guy handed over cash and hooked it up.

Surprising how many boats I sold without a test drive. Boat shoppers were all smarter than me. Just ask em.

[Rusty_OToole]

Tom McCahill wrote about selling Marmons in New York with high speed demonstrations on the Sheepshead Bay board track in the twenties. Only once did he blow an engine. Did not get the sale that day.

 

Wealthy families that employed a chauffeur would usually take his advice on what make of car to get and let him deal with the saleman. Chauffeurs customarily got a commission for this. A recognized fringe benefit of the job.

[58L-Y8]

Intially, purchasing on credit or as it was termed then "buying out of income" was simply not done or rarely.  The terms were cash on delivery.   For those who were known to be "a person of substance" in their community, to be better off or financially solid could access a chattel mortgage from a bank to cover a portion of the price.  Banks, as a general practice, did not make loans for automobiles.   And, as cars were reflective of one's social standing, chattel mortgages were not granted to those who sought to purchase a make which was deemed to be beyond their resources and to a degree, social standing.  The average working stiff didn't walk into his Packard dealership, make a deal and get approved for a loan on such a car.

One of the pioneers to make auto loans available was Comercial Investment Trust (C.I.T) who entered into an agreement with Studebaker in 1916 to provide auto loans:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CIT_Group

 As was his wont, prescient Alfred P. Sloan recognized the lack of available auto financing situation greatly limited the number of cars GM could sell, broadened General Motors Accept Corporation (GMAC) to finance individual auto loans as well as dealer inventories.  This proved a great boon to overall GM sales.   The democratization of automobile financing was well on its way by the advent of the Great Depression.
 

[Rusty_OToole]

I saw a cartoon from about 1910 that showed a series of buyers buying new cars of various prices, all by mortgaging their houses. With the comment "but why go on? We all have cars and we all got them the same way"

[tcslr]

This is really interesting. What was the process late 20s and very early 30s? 

[Bryan G]

In modern times, at least prior to the current supply chain issues, it hasn't been unusual to have dealers brag about having "2,000 vehicles in stock!" but I suppose the norm for quite a while, especially in rural areas, was to have nothing more than a few, and one might even suffice. That made having all those color and upholstery charts and such all the more important, since you had to order something you couldn't see in person. 

 

I've heard the story of traveling salesman working for Chevrolet who would visit general stores in small towns and sign them up as dealers. Many of them already sold things like plows, wagons or buggies. I've read of a large dealer group that started that way back in 1908.

[5219]

Many years ago, there was an article in the Cadillac LaSalle Club Self Starter that was an interview with Mr. Vanderbilt's chauffeur. Mr. Vanderbilt asked him what kind of car he should buy. The chauffeur recommended a Cadillac V-16 because that was what the White House was using. Mr. Vanderbilt specked out the car. When it was ready, he told the chauffeur to pick it up and to put a hundred or so miles on it before he brought it home. The chauffeur said that when he picked up the car, he was handed an envelope with a $100 bill in it. He didn't feel right about taking it, so he showed it to Mr. Vanderbilt. Mr. Vanderbilt thanked him for telling him about it and told him to keep it. The family used the car into the early fifties. It can still be seen at the Vanderbilt Hyde Park estate.

 

I once found a 1930 issue of Popular Mechanics with an ad for the Cadillac V-16. I doubt that many of those lofty customers were PM subscribers. I suspect that the ad was placed in PM to reach the chauffeurs, who would recommend it to the boss.

 

On the other end of the market, my grandfather bought a brand new Whippet in 1930. This was a competitor to Ford or Chevrolet. My grandfather said that the salesman came to his house every night for a week to drive him and my grandmother around.

 

 

[Pilgrim65]

Great topic , really enjoyed the read , interesting and amusing 

thanks to all posters 

[TAKerry]

My town is still very small by most standards. We just got out second red light about 10 years ago but we do have a Mcd's and Starbucks. Anyway, when I was a kid late 60's early 70's, there was an AMC dealer, right beside the Ford dealer and down the street a few hundred feet was a Dodge dealer. Not far from town was the Chrysler dealer. I would say not one of them had more than a dozen cars on their lots. 

 

On a somewhat related note, the area's Harley Davidson dealer well into the 80's was primarily a Snapper lawn mower dealership. They sold more mowers than motorcycles. It was a small building with a drive in basement that was the shop. They had 2 employees, the owner and his right hand man, the salesman and mechanic. When the mechanic was working in the shop in the basement the owner upstairs would stomp on the wood floor a few times to get his attention. Quite the intercomm system. 

[29 Chandler]

Our 1914 Chandler came with this letter that was addressed to the original owner of our car. It provided information about the car and new company and gave the future owner information where locally he could purchase one of their cars. I am amazed and thrilled it has survived and said with the car for the past 100 plus years. 

 

I've been able to find a little bit of information about the dealership, they started selling Chandler motor cars in 1913 the first year of production. Would love to find a picture of the dealership if it exists. From what I can tell the building no longer stands.

[58L-Y8]

Personal, ongoing relationships with the car make and dealer of choice cemented the brand loyalty that was so much a part of car selling through into the 1970's.  Ready, convenient availability of the favored make supported by service and parts reenforced that loyalty when the buyers felt treated fairly in their dealer.  In smaller towns, many different make dealers were doing business.  During the 1950's and 1960's, the next town of 1200+ had the following new car dealerships: Chevrolet, Pontiac-GMC, Ford, Plymouth-DeSoto, Studebaker that changed to Mercury, Kaiser that changed to Nash/Rambler/AMC.  Only the Ford dealer survives...for now.

[Rusty_OToole]

This brings up a thought I had about the smaller regional car companies like Locomobile, Daniels,  Peerless, Stutz, Franklin etc. That is, that most of their sales were within 100 or 200 miles of the factory.  Their biggest  dealer and factory showroom were close by  and they were best known to the public. I don't know any way to prove or disprove it. Just something I have wondered about.

 

Edited July 10, 2022 by Rusty_OToole (see edit history)

[58L-Y8]

1 hour ago, Rusty_OToole said:

This brings up a thought I had about the smaller regional car companies like Locomobile, Daniels,  Peerless, Stutz, Franklin etc. That is, that most of their sales were within 100 or 200 miles of the factory.  Their biggest  dealer and factory showroom were close by  and they were best known to the public. I don't know any way to prove or disprove it. Just something I have wondered about.

 

The car makes cited, as well as all companies who announced car production, promoted their cars nationally for sale.  Very few wanted to be considered as regional automakers.  In the case of more expensive makes such as Locomobile, Daniels, Peerless, Stutz, Franklin etc. would have established dealers first where the known general prosperity level of the population would better support sales of expensive cars i.e. cities and major urban areas.  Shipping wasn't really much of an issue with the network of railroads that crisscrossed the nation.    Then as now, carmakers went wherever the money was to sell their cars.

[wayne sheldon]

On 7/6/2022 at 7:38 PM, Brass is Best said:

The First rebate on a car was offered by Henry Ford in 1930. If I remember correctly, he gave back $50 if 1 million cars were sold. Which was a great rebate and a great sales move. You can bet everybody that bought a Ford was trying to get all their friends to also buy a Ford. Afterall that was the only way you would get the rebate. 

 

Henry Ford offered a rebate before that, in 1915. As I recall, it was fifty dollars if more than some number of cars were sold within a specified time. Fords production capabilities were growing by leaps and bounds as the moving assembly line progressed. IF I recall correctly, it was 250,000 cars (more than had been built in any year previously), but I don't recall the actual timeline. The one millionth model T was produced on December 10, 1915, the goal had been reached, and the rebates were paid.

 

There had been serious production issues with the newer style bodies for 1915, causing delays and shortages. The rebate offer may have been to push sales and regain some of what had been lost due to the delays. Even with the production issues and delays, production for 1915 was roughly 100,000 more cars than in 1914!

[8E45E]

On 7/7/2022 at 8:26 AM, 34CR12 said:

     It's been fascinating reading these posts explaining what buying a new car was like way back when.  I especially like the reports of "free driving lessons" if you bought a new car!

 

A Bondurant driving lesson was part of the package when one bought a brand new Nissan 300ZX in the 1990's.

 

Craig

[TAKerry]

5 minutes ago, 8E45E said:

A Bondurant driving lesson was part of the package when one bought a brand new Nissan 300ZX in the 1990's.

 

Craig

There was a local businessman that bought a new Lamborghini Countach. I was told that it included a trip to a racing school, may have been the same?

[8E45E]

3 minutes ago, TAKerry said:

There was a local businessman that bought a new Lamborghini Countach. I was told that it included a trip to a racing school, may have been the same?

What I do know:  I had a customer who purchased a '90 or '91 300ZX and attended the school.  He told me the emphasis was on USE THE BRAKES to slow down the car before turns, and not engine braking, as those high-revving interference engines are built to very tight tolerances in those cars.  A new set of pads was only $60, vs. a potential engine rebuild should a timing belt break!!

 

Craig

[JFranklin]

Brakes are cheaper to replace than a transmission rebuild also.

[31plymouth]

From a packet I recently sold-  Part of the Chrysler -Plymouth salesmans training.  Part 5- Selling to the difficult prospect.     1931

Edited July 12, 2022 by 31plymouth
added date (see edit history)