kbeach Posted May 15, 2022 Share Posted May 15, 2022 Did not want to hijack "1929 Packard - storage lot find" any further so thought it best to start a new topic. Restorer32 commented on being skeptial about clocking the screw heads until he found a V16 Cadillac with all the screw heads lined up. I did not know what it was called but have always wondered if this was really done back in the day or was just a figment of someone's imagination. Below is a picture of a dash board showing the screws holding the steering column brace on an unmolested 1928 Stutz Victoria Coupe. So it looks as if Stutz may have also clocked the screw heads. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex D. Posted May 15, 2022 Share Posted May 15, 2022 Which is more important, clocked or tight? I try to clock whenever possible, especially high visibility areas. My preference would be tight. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kbeach Posted May 15, 2022 Author Share Posted May 15, 2022 Alex D, I agree with you, but on the steering column brace there are nuts on the back side so clocking and tight are both possible. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Studemax Posted May 16, 2022 Share Posted May 16, 2022 They're called washers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldford Posted May 16, 2022 Share Posted May 16, 2022 23 hours ago, kbeach said: Did not want to hijack "1929 Packard - storage lot find" any further so thought it best to start a new topic. Restorer32 commented on being skeptial about clocking the screw heads until he found a V16 Cadillac with all the screw heads lined up. I did not know what it was called but have always wondered if this was really done back in the day or was just a figment of someone's imagination. Below is a picture of a dash board showing the screws holding the steering column brace on an unmolested 1928 Stutz Victoria Coupe. So it looks as if Stutz may have also clocked the screw heads. So, how do you know that this car is 'unmolested'? Is it possible that some other anal individual thought it was more correct to align the screw heads? I can only imagine that someone on an assembly line of ANY car manufacturer would yell out, "Slow the line down a bit, I can't get these screw heads properly set..." Frank 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Restorer32 Posted May 16, 2022 Share Posted May 16, 2022 On the V16 I wasn't really surprised that the more visible screws were clocked but I was surprised that this practice extended to such seldom-noticed areas as the door hinge screws. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8E45E Posted May 16, 2022 Share Posted May 16, 2022 (edited) On 5/16/2022 at 5:37 AM, oldford said: So, how do you know that this car is 'unmolested'? Is it possible that some other anal individual thought it was more correct to align the screw heads? I can only imagine that someone on an assembly line of ANY car manufacturer would yell out, "Slow the line down a bit, I can't get these screw heads properly set..." Chances are on handbuilt cars where individual craftsmen did the assembly, he would index the screws to be uniform. On mass-produced cars, if the Production Order was tagged 'Auto Show', or 'Show Job' as per Post 6 here: https://forum.studebakerdriversclub.com/forum/your-studebaker-forum/members-studebaker-pictures/1901472-new-to-me-1963-gt-superhawk then, that particular car would receive the extra attention to detail, like trim screws being indexed. Craig Edited May 19, 2022 by 8E45E (see edit history) 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kbeach Posted May 16, 2022 Author Share Posted May 16, 2022 oldford, guess you got me on that one, no way to prove or disprove. However, unlike Ford or Chevrolet, Stutz was a low production, more of a hand built car. I suspect that if each car took 5 minutes longer to clock the screws, it would not have made much difference on the number of cars built by the end of the day. This body was made by "The American Motor Body Corp" so they were most likely the one that set the screws. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kbeach Posted May 17, 2022 Author Share Posted May 17, 2022 Got to thinking about this and went through 1927, 28 and 29 owners manuals. 1929 is the only one that has a good view of the whole dash. From this you can see the screw heads are aligned the same as the 1928 for the steering coulmn. Leads me to believe that this was the practice for Stutz. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrspeedyt Posted May 17, 2022 Share Posted May 17, 2022 The only screws or bolts that I will bother clocking are for the license plate. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gossp Posted May 17, 2022 Share Posted May 17, 2022 I imagine that sometimes this came down to the individual worker. I work in heating and cooling and can tell you that every ssu switch cover, furnace door, or anything else that takes a flathead screw is horizontal when I walk away from it. Nobody will notice, it doesn’t matter, I would lose sleep if it weren’t so. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chistech Posted May 17, 2022 Share Posted May 17, 2022 6 hours ago, mrspeedyt said: The only screws or bolts that I will bother clocking are for the license plate. The only screws I’ll clock are dashboard screws. My own olds has machine screws with nuts that go through the chromed lower windshield frames so those were clocked. Screws for door hinges are not in most cases. Again, the finer cars can be debated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
60FlatTop Posted May 17, 2022 Share Posted May 17, 2022 (edited) I rode in the passenger front seat of a '41 Cadillac 60S with the windshield inner garnish molding Phillips screws all askew. A highly agitating memory today. It made me think of those ultrasonic rodent devices that keeps them away with unbearable chatter. About 90 miles almost did me in. Edited May 17, 2022 by 60FlatTop (see edit history) 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SC38dls Posted May 17, 2022 Share Posted May 17, 2022 Because I’ve read this thread and the other one that started this discussion I’ve gone around the house unclocking (if that is the correct term) or mixing up all the screws on the plug and light switches. Just so I don’t seem obsessed and crazy. After all crazy is enough in this world. I probably won’t sleep tonight. dave s 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
63RedBrier Posted May 17, 2022 Share Posted May 17, 2022 Dave S: Better if you change one of the screws in the switch/outlet cover plates so they don't match (1 phillips & 1 slotted) then you will sleep like a rock! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodneybeauchamp Posted May 18, 2022 Share Posted May 18, 2022 Must admit, that if I bolt or screw anything, they have to be the same bolts or screws. Can’t have anything not matching. Painful when sorting through the tray, but eventually find ones identical. Rodney 😀😀😀😀😀😀 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8E45E Posted May 18, 2022 Share Posted May 18, 2022 21 hours ago, 60FlatTop said: I rode in the passenger front seat of a '41 Cadillac 60S with the windshield inner garnish molding Phillips screws all askew. A highly agitating memory today. It made me think of those ultrasonic rodent devices that keeps them away with unbearable chatter. About 90 miles almost did me in. That's why one should ALWAYS have a Leatherman in his pocket!! Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Bruce aka First Born Posted May 18, 2022 Share Posted May 18, 2022 You guys are paranoid and have way too much time on your hands.😁 Ben 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
60FlatTop Posted May 18, 2022 Share Posted May 18, 2022 19 minutes ago, 8E45E said: That's why one should ALWAYS have a Leatherman in his pocket!! Use a multipurpose tool to clock screw heads! That's enough to give a guy a case of the blind stutters. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8E45E Posted May 18, 2022 Share Posted May 18, 2022 1 minute ago, 60FlatTop said: Use a multipurpose tool to clock screw heads! That's enough to give a guy a case of the blind stutters. Whatever it takes if it drove you THAT insane, and wanted a quick fix!! Craig 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex D. Posted May 18, 2022 Share Posted May 18, 2022 Didn’t sleep at all last night thinking about how to clock this screw. There is 2 on each side of the instrument panel. All clocked except the upper left. I have tried multiple washers, and none will clock the screw. Now that this thread has been brought to my attention, every time I get behind the wheel, I will notice the un-clocked screw. I think if I cut a .010 shim for behind the screw, I can get it to clock. I need a drink now! 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prewarnut Posted May 20, 2022 Share Posted May 20, 2022 How about clocking clock (watch) screws? This maddness extends to other endeavors. Actually in watches screws are never clocked as tightness is the paramount duty. Nonetheless the inside of American watches Circa 1870s-1930s are quite beautiful and artistic. Here I'll often swap screws to see if I can get a pair (jewel setting screws for example) to seat in the same orientation. In one case I very slightly filed a head's underside on my jeweler's lathe to get it to seat in a new "clocked" position. I don't usually go to extremes and these are on my own collection but this addiction should probably be brought to the attention of the medical community. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SC38dls Posted May 20, 2022 Share Posted May 20, 2022 Well I’ve had the ultimate clock in my house, maybe some of you have experienced it also. My wife clocked me up side my head early in our marriage and it’s kept me straight for 52 years! Got to love a woman that knows what she wants and goes after it. dave s 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8E45E Posted May 20, 2022 Share Posted May 20, 2022 4 hours ago, SC38dls said: My wife clocked me up side my head early in our marriage and it’s kept me straight for 52 years! Got to love a woman that knows what she wants and goes after it. dave s And you're still tickin', so it can't be all THAT bad!! Craig 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hook Posted May 20, 2022 Share Posted May 20, 2022 I guess Cartier doesn't go along with clocking screws. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8E45E Posted May 20, 2022 Share Posted May 20, 2022 2 hours ago, hook said: I guess Cartier doesn't go along with clocking screws. It matches the screws inside 1970's Lincolns with a Cartier clock!! I wonder if the clocks in them still work! Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1937hd45 Posted May 20, 2022 Share Posted May 20, 2022 On 5/17/2022 at 6:50 AM, gossp said: I imagine that sometimes this came down to the individual worker. I work in heating and cooling and can tell you that every ssu switch cover, furnace door, or anything else that takes a flathead screw is horizontal when I walk away from it. Nobody will notice, it doesn’t matter, I would lose sleep if it weren’t so. You are a craftsman that takes pride in his work , details like that will provide customer referrals. details matter. Bob 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Luddy Posted May 20, 2022 Share Posted May 20, 2022 I far prefer the screws be tight to the proper torque than being in alignment. Much like BMW and Audi cars the gloss and perceived attention to detail are masquerading as well built cars. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Perkins / Mn Posted May 21, 2022 Share Posted May 21, 2022 This, from the Associated Press, April 8,1990. I have never forgotten this story. Now this is attention to detail! ZIONSVILLE, Ind. (AP) _ Attention to detail is a trademark of Rolls-Royce Motor Cars and nowhere is detail stressed more than in Hermann Albers’ business. The slot in every screw head - whether on a workbench, a plaque on the wall or even inside a door hinge - is lined up dead vertical. Albers says it’s more aesthetically pleasing. ″I’m a nut about detail,″ he says. In the quaint village of Zionsville nestled in rolling Indiana farmland a few minutes northwest of Indianapolis sits Albers Rolls-Royce, one of three exclusive Rolls-Royce and Bentley dealers in the United States. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bhigdog Posted May 21, 2022 Share Posted May 21, 2022 I pay attention to torque and tightness. Anything else is OCD behavior. I,m guessing the bolts/screws/fasteners on the Webb telescope were not clocked.....bob 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kbeach Posted May 21, 2022 Author Share Posted May 21, 2022 This theard is almost as much fun as the one on white wall tires VS black wall.😎 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1937hd45 Posted May 21, 2022 Share Posted May 21, 2022 1 minute ago, kbeach said: This theard is almost as much fun as the one on white wall tires VS black wall.😎 That will lead to another on jacking up the wheels and rotating the wheels so the hubcap script is right side up and in alignment with the running board screw slots. 🙂 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gossp Posted May 21, 2022 Share Posted May 21, 2022 6 minutes ago, 1937hd45 said: That will lead to another on jacking up the wheels and rotating the wheels so the hubcap script is right side up and in alignment with the running board screw slots. 🙂 Are you telling me that on your car you don’t have a point of each lug nut aimed at center? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1937hd45 Posted May 21, 2022 Share Posted May 21, 2022 (edited) 2 minutes ago, gossp said: Are you telling me that on your car you don’t have a point of each lug nut aimed at center? No nuts on my last show car, knockoffs. Speaking of clocking screws I trust everyone mounts their tires with the same lettering over the valve stems, right? Centered between Good and Year and with the stem under the S in Firestone. Edited May 21, 2022 by 1937hd45 (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bhigdog Posted May 21, 2022 Share Posted May 21, 2022 On 5/17/2022 at 6:50 AM, gossp said: I imagine that sometimes this came down to the individual worker. I work in heating and cooling and can tell you that every ssu switch cover, furnace door, or anything else that takes a flathead screw is horizontal when I walk away from it. Nobody will notice, it doesn’t matter, I would lose sleep if it weren’t so. Just out of curiosity, I'm wondering what method you prefer if the screw slot is not horizontal upon reaching optimum tightness. Do you opt for over tightening and distortion or do you find under tightening and loosening over time the better option. Just askin.............Bob 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1937hd45 Posted May 21, 2022 Share Posted May 21, 2022 3 minutes ago, Bhigdog said: Just out of curiosity, I'm wondering what method you prefer if the screw slot is not horizontal upon reaching optimum tightness. Do you opt for over tightening and distortion or do you find under tightening and loosening over time the better option. Just askin.............Bob Personally I use Loctite if there is some worry about things falling out. I'm talking about automobile trim not a Elon Musk space craft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1937hd45 Posted May 21, 2022 Share Posted May 21, 2022 Google is a wonderful thing, 25 years ago a fellow pointed out the clocked screws in a Halftrack, here is a photo to prove the point. The Clocked Screw That Won WWII. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gossp Posted May 21, 2022 Share Posted May 21, 2022 5 hours ago, Bhigdog said: Just out of curiosity, I'm wondering what method you prefer if the screw slot is not horizontal upon reaching optimum tightness. Do you opt for over tightening and distortion or do you find under tightening and loosening over time the better option. Just askin.............Bob on hvac equipment everything gets a foam seal that gives me about three turns to play with between tight enough and having to worry about it. Otherwise usually back off or start over with different washers. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8E45E Posted May 21, 2022 Share Posted May 21, 2022 As per post 14. here, 1963 8E45E Diesel - Studebaker Drivers Club Forum, some are never satisfied. Craig 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldford Posted May 21, 2022 Share Posted May 21, 2022 3 hours ago, gossp said: Otherwise usually back off or start over with different washers. Do you ask the customer to pay for that time taken to change washers or do you do it for free? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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