RIVIERA VS. T-BIRD; JUST SOME OPINIONS

[jframe]

When my Dad bought his '65 Riv, he was also pricing out '65 Thunderbirds. He ultimately went with the Riviera, due in no small part to influence from my Mother. She thought the Buick was much "prettier", in her words. I know the two cars were competitive with each other, but the Riviera by most accounts was a little faster, little less expensive, handled somewhat better, and was arguably better looking, at least less glitzy. What the Riviera DIDN'T do was outsell the Thunderbird, and I never understood why. Now, years later,1st Gen Rivieras, especially the Gran Sports, seem much more valuable than equivalent 64-66 Thunderbirds, and seem to have a greater following. Maybe I'm just biased because I love the 63-65 Rivieras, but I don't think so. I've seen several 64-66 Thunderbirds over the years that I really thought were sharp, and should bring more money, but they just don't. Anyway, just some random thoughts on a subject on a cold Friday morning while I'm getting up the gumption to actually get to working.

[60FlatTop]

The Riviera is a lot easier to work on and hardly ever needs work. I bought my wife a '66 T-Bird once. Something was always broken. The unibody was hard to work round. And they rusted worse.

On hers the transmission went bad and there is a steel member that spans the underside at the bell housing. I was afraid the bolt holes would not line up if I took too long to fix it. Fords will do that.

 

I do like the body on frame Thunderbirds and have been looking at 1970 models for a couple of years. But it is hard to beat a GM car for reliability and having all the little extra keep working.

[Seafoam65]

Back in 1966 my next door neighbor was a Ford Dealership mechanic. He worked on all the T-birds that

came in because none of the other guys at the dealership could stand the frustration of trying to work on them.

My neighbor was a heavy drinker and he joked that working on T-birds drove him to the bottle!

[Pat Curran]

We should be thankful for the T'bird because without it, we may never have had a Riviera.  I am fond of some years of T'bird but the Riviera is my preference.

[SwedeDownUnderR63]

My first car was a 1966 T-Bird. It was 1975 in Sweden and I was 18 years young and a fan of SF which probably was what got me so interested on this car a few years earlier when I saw it the first time. The instruments, the design in general and the rear end with all the lights sucked me in. I had absolutely no knowledge about the practical function of a car and I had grown up in a metric world without even knowing that there were something called inch. The car was sold new in Sweden and I guess there were less than 10 of them sold in the country.

It was horrible to drive on anything less than freeways which wasn’t that common in Sweden. Lots of problems with it during the 6 months that I had it, it was an expensive crash course for someone that loves mathematics and IT whilst being rather unpractical.

 

I bought my first 1963 Riviera the year after. That one had also been neglected during the years in Sweden but it was so much nicer to drive than the T-Bird and it was fixed up with assistance of my handy wife an her brothers. I have had the pleasure of driving a number of American cars made in the 60s and early 70’s including Cadillacs from ‘60 and ‘65, a couple of Mustangs and even a Pontiac Parisienne from the early 70s (bought in Vancouver for an American holiday in ‘79). The Riviera was the absolutely best car to drive of all of them even on some of the few really bad Swedish roads. It didn’t have the same SF look as the Thunderbird but it had style and it was so enjoyable. I sold it in 1982 whilst a university when money was tight.

 

I bought my second 1963 Riviera here Down Under in 2015 after having been  looking for a while for something fun to enjoy again. I have to admit that I looked at a 1966 Thunderbird again before thinking more straight (and with some influence from my wife) and selected a Riviera that, almost 35 years after I had one the last time, probably was in better shape when I bought it than the one I once sold.

We have had the pleasure of enjoying driving this now for almost 7 years and it has been on the road for many more kilometers (miles) than the one I had in my youth. Those living breathing dragons are made for the road and, although we (the same handy wife) have had a few minor mechanical issues, it is still a dream that came through. Modern cars might be great but they are so ugly and so lacking in the feeling of enjoyment that the Riviera gives me.

Edited February 18, 2022 by SwedeDownUnderR63 (see edit history)

[jframe]

57 minutes ago, SwedeDownUnderR63 said:

My first car was a 1966 T-Bird. It was 1975 in Sweden and I was 18 years young and a fan of SF which probably was what got me so interested on this car a few years earlier when I saw it the first time. The instruments, the design in general and the rear end with all the lights sucked me in. I had absolutely no knowledge about the practical function of a car and I had grown up in a metric world without even knowing that there were something called inch. The car was sold new in Sweden and I guess there were less than 10 of them sold in the country.

It was horrible to drive on anything less than freeways which wasn’t that common in Sweden. Lots of problems with it during the 6 months that I had it, it was an expensive crash course for someone that loves mathematics and IT whilst being rather unpractical.

 

I bought my first 1963 Riviera the year after. That one had also been neglected during the years in Sweden but it was so much nicer to drive than the T-Bird and it was fixed up with assistance of my handy wife an her brothers. I have had the pleasure of driving a number of American cars made in the 60s and early 70’s including Cadillacs from ‘60 and ‘65, a couple of Mustangs and even a Pontiac Parisienne from the early 70s (bought in Vancouver for an American holiday in ‘79). The Riviera was the absolutely best car to drive of all of them even on some of the few really bad Swedish roads. It didn’t have the same SF look as the Thunderbird but it had style and it was so enjoyable. I sold it in 1982 whilst a university when money was tight.

 

I bought my second 1963 Riviera here Down Under in 2015 after having been  looking for a while for something fun to enjoy again. I have to admit that I looked at a 1966 Thunderbird again before thinking more straight (and with some influence from my wife) and selected a Riviera that, almost 35 years after I had one the last time, probably was in better shape when I bought it than the one I once sold.

We have had the pleasure of enjoying driving this now for almost 7 years and it has been on the road for many more kilometers (miles) than the one I had in my youth. Those living breathing dragons are made for the road and, although we (the same handy wife) have had a few minor mechanical issues, it is still a dream that came through. Modern cars might be great but they are so ugly and so lacking in the feeling of enjoyment that the Riviera gives me.

I couldn't agree more about the modern cars. If you sell parts for them like I have done for 34 years, you really realize that they are basic cookie cutter junk. As far as the Tbird/Riv comparisons, I agree as well. I have a friend who is a tire/brake/ and suspension guy, and he had to put a front end under one of those 'birds, and he swore he'd never do another one. I was just curious as to how the buying public in those days (since I wasn't around until 1970) thought of them at that time. The T bird really seemed to outsell the Riviera, and there had to be a reason. Maybe it was just the fact that it was a well established model, and people were more familiar with it at the time. My Dad had a co worker at Bower Roller Bearing in Detroit who bought a Thunderbird right before Dad got his Riv. Almost every guy in the plant preferred Dad's car when the two were parked side by side, and I have to say, I can't argue with that assessment at all. 

[Rivdrivn]

Here is photographic evidence that Riviera eats Thunderbird for lunch

[steelman]

Took this picture a couple years ago when I was having some work done on the house and needed the garage to store furniture. Took it my buddies shop where another friend had his 66 TBird  there trying to find the issue with the headlights. When he left, three other guys that were there all agreed that the Riviera, even being three years older, was a better car than the TBird ever was.

 

[EmTee]

A cruise-in friend has a '66 T-Bird and we were speculating with another buddy who has a '60 Catalina who had the heaviest car.  We all agreed the Catalina was the lightest (which it was), however, the three of us were surprised to learn that the T-Bird was about 300 pounds heavier than my ~4200-pound '67 Riviera, despite the fact that the T-Bird is a unibody design... 

[TexRiv_63]

I've never owned any T-bird but have always been attracted to the 61-63 Bullet Bird styling. 64 to 66 T birds never liked the way they looked so the Riv comes out on top for me.

[OldGerman]

The manufacturing capacity limited the Riviera to a 40.000 vehicles per year. That is possibly the reason it was outsold by other models like the T- Bird. I don‘t know anything about the marketing of both company’s  back in the 60th. but wasn‘t Buick more attracting older generations ?

I personally like the Early 60-63 interior space age design and the low stance, but was never a fan of the exterior styling.

Edited February 19, 2022 by OldGerman (see edit history)

[Craig Balzer]

5 hours ago, TexRiv_63 said:

I've never owned any T-bird but have always been attracted to the 61-63 Bullet Bird styling.

Yeah -- me, too. Except instead of "never owned any T-bird" -- -- "I own both a T-bird (1962) and Riviera (1965 Gran sport)

 

[EmTee]

I also have a 'thing' for those particular T-Birds... 

[RivNut]

6 hours ago, OldGerman said:

The manufacturing capacity limited the Riviera to a 40.000 vehicles per year. That is possibly the reason it was outsold by other models like the T- Bird. I don‘t know anything about the marketing of both company’s  back in the 60th. but wasn‘t Buick more attracting older generations ?

I personally like the Early 60-63 interior space age design and the low stance, but was never a fan of the exterior styling.

Some time ago, in a publication I don’t remember, it was written that the idea of the Riviera was to pull people into the showroom and, hopefully, put them into a model that more closely fit their lifestyles.

[Turbinator]

I’m buying a 1962 T Bird. The reasons are many to buy a T Bird. The T Bird is the antithesis of the Riviera. I’m a GM man, but for this car I’ve made an exception. The car I believe to be in outstanding condition. The T Bird is a convertible and does not have air condition. I believe the car will be a lot of fun.

[TexRiv_63]

18 hours ago, Craig Balzer said:

Yeah -- me, too. Except instead of "never owned any T-bird" -- -- "I own both a T-bird (1962) and Riviera (1965 Gran sport)

 

WOW,  the perfect combo!

[kreed]

Some excellent comments about the 64-66 (Thelma and Louise ) Tbirds which I am I total agreement with but when the subject turned to the 61-63 “ bullet” birds I wanted to chime in as I have a 62 Sport Roadster that I love to drive . Given the fact that it is a totally different driving experience that the first generation Riv’s , it has great appeal to me with its classic styling . The 390 engine is no where close to the 425 nailhead as far as get up and go but the bird does cruise down the road pretty nicely . The car always draws a lot or attention at shows , particularly the hideaway top. That being said , if I had to chose one to take to the desert island to look at , it would have to be the  65 GS . Enjoyed this post very much seeing the diversity among our members.

KReed

ROA 14549

[EmTee]

My wife says I need to stop looking at this thread... 

[Seafoam65]

Perhaps I need to see an optometrist for a correction on my contact lens prescription, but my eyes tell me that the 65

Riviera is 50 times better looking than any 60's T-Bird! No contest end of story.... kind of like the difference between

a Volkswagen beetle and a Ferrari GTO. Or Marilyn Monroe vs. Ethel Mertz......no contest. 

[Turbinator]

Gents, Some of my pals in Maryland refer to me at times as Mr Extreme. I won’t argue. I’m still a GM man and think the Riviera 63 is top of the top.

The T- Bird’s name will be “ Antithesis”.

It will be interesting to feel the difference in steering and ride of the two cars. My sense is the Riv will win hands down. On the other hand the DynaFlow might be sluggish compared to the T- Bird? Hard to tell as Tom Telesco rebuilt the 390. And Tom made up the parts list and provided instructions for my Nailhead engine builder. I’m a lucky man to have Mr Telesco wrench on my cars. I must say being Tom’s helper on the job is a day at the beach.

Turbinator

Edited February 21, 2022 by Turbinator
Word usage (see edit history)

[Turbinator]

Ok

[Turbinator]

7 hours ago, Seafoam65 said:

Perhaps I need to see an optometrist for a correction on my contact lens prescription, but my eyes tell me that the 65

Riviera is 50 times better looking than any 60's T-Bird! No contest end of story.... kind of like the difference between

a Volkswagen beetle and a Ferrari GTO. Or Marilyn Monroe vs. Ethel Mertz......no contest. 

Winston, I must say your way with words is truly entertaining as well as clever. Good job.

Turbinator

[Pat Curran]

Now only if the Riviera had sequential turn signals……..

[telriv]

That can be done. We can do that.

 

Tom T.

[JZRIV]

I always liked the styling of T-Birds but never had the opportunity to own one as I hooked up with Rivs very early on. Perhaps if the friend I met while fishing at 14 y/o (who was 15 years older than me) was driving a T-bird instead of an 67 Riviera, I likely would never have never got into Rivs. Funny how a simple meeting at a young age had a major influence on the rest of my life opening doors to many lasting friendships in the Riviera world for decades.

 

In the mid-late 2000s, I almost bought one of the retro designed model 2002-2005 T-birds to replace my 97 Lincoln Mark VIII. If they had put a more powerful engine in it, I probably would have but the Mark VIII was a real power house for its time and I wasn't ready to give that up.  

 

A friend that owns a popular Dairy in the Pittsburgh area uses this car for marketing and promotions at summer events. Turner "Tea" bird. It always attracts a lot of attention. They load the trunk with iced tea and hand it out.

 

Edited February 21, 2022 by JZRIV (see edit history)

[EmTee]

I installed a universal kit like this on my '64 GP.  Looks especially sexy with those hidden tail lights, IMHO. 

 

https://www.webelectricproducts.com/store/STS-2-Universal-Sequential-Turn-Signals-p265704231

 

 

[TexRiv_63]

22 hours ago, kreed said:

Some excellent comments about the 64-66 (Thelma and Louise ) Tbirds which I am I total agreement with but when the subject turned to the 61-63 “ bullet” birds I wanted to chime in as I have a 62 Sport Roadster that I love to drive . Given the fact that it is a totally different driving experience that the first generation Riv’s , it has great appeal to me with its classic styling . The 390 engine is no where close to the 425 nailhead as far as get up and go but the bird does cruise down the road pretty nicely . The car always draws a lot or attention at shows , particularly the hideaway top. That being said , if I had to chose one to take to the desert island to look at , it would have to be the  65 GS . Enjoyed this post very much seeing the diversity among our members.

KReed

ROA 14549

That right there is my all time favorite T-bird, right down to the color!

[Aaron65]

I've been Riviera shopping for many years, but have never pulled the trigger on one because I'm cheap and I like variety.  They've gotten pretty spendy now, so I may never get one, but I have a T-Bird.  I've always liked Bullet Birds, but I like early Rivieras more.  I'll throw '66 Toronados in there as well...maybe I'll find one of them. 

[EmTee]

3 hours ago, Aaron65 said:

I'll throw '66 Toronados in there as well...

Oh boy - I'm with you on that!  And how 'bout a '68 Eldorado...? 

 

 

[rocketraider]

Thunderbird, Riviera, Toronado, Eldorado. Distinctive because they shared little with their makers' other carlines and there was, quite literally, nothing else on the road to compare them with. Even a Chrysler letter car was based on a mainstream platform.

 

Then you had the high-line mainstream "personal luxury" cars- Starfires, Grand Prix, Wildcats, Galaxie XLs, non-letter 300s, and others. All designed to satisfy a buyer's desire for something "not quite ordinary".

 

My problem is I like them all. I ran up on a black/red 64 XL Town Victoria at a Carlisle show a couple years ago and about melted into the pavement. It had a Tasca Ford dealer badge. Finally told my friends we needed to move on before I shamed myself. Cars like that do that to me, because I definitely don't like "ordinary"!

 

If I did I certainly wouldn't be down here in Rivieraland!😃

[EmTee]

It was 50 degrees here today, so I took my Riviera for a ride and stopped on the way home to top-off the tank (at $4.35/gal for non-ethanol 91) and a woman asked me what it was and took a couple of pictures of it to show her brother.

Edited February 22, 2022 by EmTee (see edit history)

[RivNut]

16 hours ago, Pat Curran said:

Now only if the Riviera had sequential turn signals……..

Check YouTube for an example of sequential turn signals for those for a 1st generation Riviera.  I didn’t watch the entire video so I don’t know if they’re available for 2nd generation Rivs as well.

[Turbinator]

6 hours ago, EmTee said:

Oh boy - I'm with you on that!  And how 'bout a '68 Eldorado...? 

Now, this really a good looking car.

Turbinator

[EmTee]

8 hours ago, RivNut said:

I didn’t watch the entire video so I don’t know if they’re available for 2nd generation Rivs as well.

Like I said above, I installed a universal module/kit on my '64 GP a few years ago.  A kit like the one I used can also be installed on a 2nd gen Riviera.  As with my GP, the primary modification for a 2nd gen would be to add the wire to activate the brake/signal filament on the center tail light bulb.  From the factory only the inner and outer bulbs on each side are active for brake & turn signals.  The center bulb is only wired for the tail light filament.

[Pat Curran]

6 hours ago, Turbinator said:

Now, this really a good looking car.

Turbinator

The 68 ElDorado has been on my bucket list for years.

[kegart]

I think you would have to say that Riviera , Thunderbird , Eldorado and Toronado were the top cars in the personal luxury car class in the '60s and 70s.

 

Kevin

[RivNut]

In the late 60s through 80s,  the three GM makes were all built on the same chassis.  Not too much difference except aesthetics. 

[JZRIV]

3 hours ago, Pat Curran said:

The 68 ElDorado has been on my bucket list for years.

They sure do have killer styling. Careful what you wish for Pat! 🙂 If you ever get one make sure it doesn't need any work. Horrible to work on compared to a Riv.  

[EmTee]

1 hour ago, JZRIV said:

If you ever get one make sure it doesn't need any work.

What? -- it's "the Standard of the World" for cryin' out loud!  That knife-edge styling surely is stunning though... 

[jframe]

3 hours ago, JZRIV said:

They sure do have killer styling. Careful what you wish for Pat! 🙂 If you ever get one make sure it doesn't need any work. Horrible to work on compared to a Riv.  

I have always loved them too, but also heard that ANY Caddy is tough to work on. There have been a few things on this Riviera that tested me pretty good, the biggest one being the brake booster.