fire extinguisher requirement at AACA shows?

[jerrybev]

What size and type fire extinguisher must I have with my car for it to be judged?

thanks

\Jerry 

whitfield

[hwellens]

From the rules book:

The fire extinguisher must be UL-approved or  equivalent  and  fully  charged.  Fire extinguishers
without a gauge: ensure the nozzle  is  not  obstructed  and  the  safety seal is intact. The
extinguisher need not be  permanently  mounted,  but  must clearly visible and readily available.

 

[jerrybev]

hi

thank you.  Is there a minimum size?

thank you

Jerry

[TAKerry]

I would say the biggest youre comfortable carrying. If its in the passenger compartment it should be attached. Laying loose it can become a missile inside the car!  Heaven forbid you would need to use it, but if you did would you want a minimum size?

[padgett]

All depends on how much you can lift easily, the larger the better (if going to do at all...). Look for a metal vs a plastic valve.  a 1A5BC is the minimum 2A10BC is better. 3A40BC will be about 10 lbs.

 

For SCCA (2019) "Dry chemical, two (2) pound minimum with a positive indicator showing charge. Chemical: 10 BC Underwriters Laboratory rating, potassium bicarbonate (Purple K) recommended, 1A10BC Underwriters Laboratory rating multipurpose, ammonium phosphate and barium sulfate or Monnex."

[HarryLime]

I never understood why extinguishers are usually jammed under a front wheel at car shows . Can't it be mounted in the car somewhere safe ? 

[TAKerry]

6 minutes ago, HarryLime said:

I never understood why extinguishers are usually jammed under a front wheel at car shows . Can't it be mounted in the car somewhere safe ? 

My understanding is that 1. Its visible for the judges to see at a glance

and 2. IF it is needed, much easier for someone to grab it from there than to have to open a door, climb inside, figure out how to unhook etc. etc.........

[jerrybev]

hi

I still am interested in minimum size because the only reason for it is to meet the requirements of the judges.  Is a 3.6 lb. fire extinguisher acceptable to AACA judges?

thanks

Jerry

[padgett]

Maybe the parking brake doesn't work.

 

Mentioned what the SCCA requires. Suspect the largest ABC you can handle is best.

[bryankazmer]

It's not about whether you are OK if your car burns - we do care if it burns someone else's parked next to you.  Stop acting put upon.

[Steve Moskowitz]

There is no minimum size.  The rule book quoted is our current rule and over decades has proved to be a prudent one.  As long as you meet terms of the rules you are ok and yes, the fire extinguisher has to be visible to the judges.  Having this small inconvenience added to our program has on occasion helped a car owner and his neighbor so the rule is firmly in place.

[TAKerry]

14 hours ago, jerrybev said:

hi

I still am interested in minimum size because the only reason for it is to meet the requirements of the judges.  Is a 3.6 lb. fire extinguisher acceptable to AACA judges?

thanks

Jerry

I hate to open this can of worms, it may cause a flury of responses. BUT, back in the old days when we had car shows, there was a fellow leaving the local VFW show in my town. Cruising slowly through town on main street he noticed smoke started to come out from under the hood. He stopped immediately, grabbed his extinguisher, popped the hood open and VIOLA! The engine compartment was on fire!!! He used up his extinguisher in a second there were a couple of 'hot rods' following that stopped as well, all had their extinguishers out as well.  They got the fire out before it did too much damage, even before the FD got there.  Car was an impeccably restored 64 Chevy SS, perfect in every way (except what ever shorted out and caused the fire).

Stuff happens!   I had a spark from an angle grinder burn down my barn, lost 3 generations of tools, and a car. IF I had A fire extinguisher it may not have been as bad. I have 3 large ones in my new shop!

[Marty Roth]

3 hours ago, Steve Moskowitz said:

There is no minimum size.  The rule book quoted is our current rule and over decades has proved to be a prudent one.  As long as you meet terms of the rules you are ok and yes, the fire extinguisher has to be visible to the judges.  Having this small inconvenience added to our program has on occasion helped a car owner and his neighbor so the rule is firmly in place.

 

16 hours ago, jerrybev said:

hi

I still am interested in minimum size because the only reason for it is to meet the requirements of the judges.  Is a 3.6 lb. fire extinguisher acceptable to AACA judges?

thanks

Jerry

 

Jerry,

 

Meeting the requirements of the judges is NOT the "only reason" !

The reason for the CLUB's requirements,

and the reason we judges are compelled to enforce the rule,

is for public safety!

 

"IF" you anticipate that a potential fire in your car, or a car next to yours "WILL ONLY BE A MINIMAL FIRE",

then maybe you're OK with a minimal extinguisher-

but in that case, and with that attitude,

I'd prefer that you park somewhere other than next to me.

In any case,

For your protection, as well as mine,

I'll have the larger size - and probably another one as backup - just in case -

I once, many years ago, had an engine fire under the hood of a car, late at night, inide of our attached garage, and underneath our childrens' bedrooms.

Having the proper type of extinguishers (Halon, at that time), the benefit cannot be underestimated.

I shudder to think what may have otherwise happened to the car, the garage, the house, the kids, etc.

 

I've also stopped along a road, usind one of my extinguishers to assist another motorist whose car was ablaze -

and I wasn't in an antique - just my old Suburban.

 

As a son of a career Professional Firefighter, Fire Captain, and Deputy Fire Chief,

Please accept this advice from one who has been there, helping another.

 

Sometimes you don't get a second chance.

[SC38dls]

Mine goes in the car when the car leaves the garage (hasn't gone anywhere recently but usually a daily driver) and gets put near the back of the car close to the garage door when it is in the garage.  I also have a permanent one near the garage door from the house.  It's common sense to have a little protection!  Size does matter!  Get a decent fire extinguisher! 

[padgett]

+10 on that. Frankly I am not sure how many I have around the house and garages plus kitty litter and some 5 gallon jugs of water. Know I am never more than 15 feet from a wall-hung extinguisher. And when I had the house built paid $200 extra for all copper wiring. (If you have never seen aluminum wiring, be glad, be very glad).

[joe_padavano]

19 hours ago, jerrybev said:

hi

thank you.  Is there a minimum size?

thank you

Jerry

 

Since you're apparently determined to push this, here ya go...

 

[Bloo]

1 hour ago, SC38DLS said:

Mine goes in the car when the car leaves the garage (hasn't gone anywhere recently but usually a daily driver) and gets put near the back of the car close to the garage door when it is in the garage.  I also have a permanent one near the garage door from the house.  It's common sense to have a little protection!  Size does matter!  Get a decent fire extinguisher! 

 

Where do you keep it while you are driving? This is going to be a problem in my car. I have been lugging around a big ABC Dry-Chem extinguisher because I have a few of them. It's far from ideal. Halon would be better, but there is still the issue of where to store it.

[Doug Novak]

20 hours ago, HarryLime said:

I never understood why extinguishers are usually jammed under a front wheel at car shows . Can't it be mounted in the car somewhere safe ? 

It think it was to stop you from forgetting about it when you were ready to leave the show. Not a great Idea to bounce over one, or have the tire shoot it out when riding over it. DON'T DO IT! BAD IDEA. 

 

I believe the Rule is that the extinguisher be outside of the cars, visible to all and available to anyone one should they need one in a hurry.  

[SC38dls]

37 minutes ago, Bloo said:

 

Where do you keep it while you are driving? This is going to be a problem in my car. I have been lugging around a big ABC Dry-Chem extinguisher because I have a few of them. It's far from ideal. Halon would be better, but there is still the issue of where to store it.

Mine goes on floor in back seat drivers side. I usually only have the pups in the back so not a problem for people feet. Also the back has a slanted foot rest the extinguisher fits well between the foot rest and the door. 
 

[padgett]

And in the middle we have this. When an SCCA course marshal I had a 67 Camaro with the rear seat removed, a platform put down, and could carry four 30-40 pound (big) extinguishers in the back. Can say if needed you do not notice the weight.

 

Have A Bunch around here mostly 2A10BC. Not gigantic just many.

[KdFwagen]

Fire extinguishers are like Car Insurance.

 

You should have it, but never want to have to use it.

[padgett]

If not can always carry marshmallows.

[Matt Harwood]

You know what probably sucks? Emptying a small fire extinguisher on a fire and seeing the flames flare up again.

 

 

Edited April 16, 2021 by Matt Harwood (see edit history)

[West Peterson]

On 4/16/2021 at 3:32 PM, Matt Harwood said:

You know what probably sucks? Emptying a small fire extinguisher on a fire and seeing the flames flare up again.

 

 

 

If it's a wheel-bearing fire, it probably doesn't matter how big the fire extinguisher is. In this case, it's best to have a liter-bottle or two of diet "uncola", which will cool the hot spot at the same time it puts the fire out.

[hook]

On 4/16/2021 at 3:32 PM, Matt Harwood said:

You know what probably sucks? Emptying a small fire extinguisher on a fire and seeing the flames flare up again.

 

 

Been there, done that. I can't think of a more sick feeling than the one I had, when I had, left over fire and no more extinguisher. What burns never returns! Don't skimp just to save a few bucks. 

[C Carl]

Sorry to hear that, hook. Tough lesson. Everyone should also have a small CO2 extinguisher for car use. A larger 38 pound CO2 is a good shop size . Well, sometimes when I am feeling cautious, or maybe even a little paranoid, I will take a 38 pounder along with me in the ‘24 Cadillac. That thing will chill and suffocate a pretty fair amount of fire. There is also enough CO2 in it to suffocate the firefighter in an enclosed volume. A heavy gas, it can accumulate in low areas.   - Carl 

[KdFwagen]

16 minutes ago, hook said:

Been there, done that. I can't think of a more sick feeling than the one I had, when I had, left over fire and no more extinguisher. What burns never returns! Don't skimp just to save a few bucks. 

That must have felt horrible. Couldnt imagine. Sorry to hear that. Maybe others can learn from that terrible expierience you went through and prevent the same thing from happening to them one day.

[edinmass]

Did 65 miles today in the V-16 Phaeton. We had three halon fire extinguishers, and one Element 120 second unit. Cadillacs have a propensity to burn........and burn well. My passenger was asking why all the fire extinguishers in the car.............and I asked him, think about it. He smiled and realized the cars often burn. I explained to him his only responsibility in the event of a fire was to save himself. The Boss understands that if there are four fire extinguishers in a car we are driving, he needs to understand their operation and where the fire is likely to occur. After Amelia in 2019, he respects the fact certain cars in the collection have extra extinguishers in them......for a reason. Any Cadillac built from 1907 to 1932 that doesn’t have multiple extinguishers is folly. But what do I know........I just have fifty years of watching them burn. 

Edited April 18, 2021 by edinmass (see edit history)

[hook]

1 hour ago, C Carl said:

Sorry to hear that, hook. Tough lesson. Everyone should also have a small CO2 extinguisher for car use. A larger 38 pound CO2 is a good shop size . Well, sometimes when I am feeling cautious, or maybe even a little paranoid, I will take a 38 pounder along with me in the ‘24 Cadillac. That thing will chill and suffocate a pretty fair amount of fire. There is also enough CO2 in it to suffocate the firefighter in an enclosed volume. A heavy gas, it can accumulate in low areas.   - Carl 

Hey Carl,

When you think your safe from fire, just think how many cases of beer you can sufficiently chill with those 38 pounders!!!!! haha. Sorry the devil made me say it. By the way, don't ever use those CO2 extinguishers around any gas environment (I don't mean gasoline). They can shoot a hot static spark 10 feet. Never use them to purge a tank.

Edited April 18, 2021 by hook
left out (see edit history)

[Peter J.Heizmann]

On 4/15/2021 at 4:18 PM, jerrybev said:

What size and type fire extinguisher must I have with my car for it to be judged?

thanks

\Jerry 

whitfield

I do not believe I ever saw a rule that mandates a certain size such as length, O.D., etc.  You received a lot of good info on type and chemical specs from respondents.

 

At this point I advise you contact Chuck Crane, VP Judging.  He is a great guy as I can attest.   

 

flivverway@gmail.com    (If that is not a good email link phone AACA HQ at 717-534-1910 for updated contact info)

 

Regards,

 

Peter J.

Edited April 18, 2021 by Peter J.Heizmann (see edit history)

[padgett]

a) why fire extinguishers were always in very short supply in SEA.

b) also usually carry a gallon or two of distilled water (88c/gal)

[John348]

16 hours ago, Bills Auto Works said:

I have no comment on the club rules, but wanted to show folks this new style extinguisher that lots of guys are buying for their cars. It is a one time use extinguisher, lasts 50 seconds & is good for ALL types of fires. Also a major improvement is it leaves NO residue that hurts your engine. It comes with a little clamp, so you can mount it anywhere or may fit in the glove box or console. You can see the you tube videos on how they work & also Jay Leno did a piece on them. About $80-90 each. I bought a couple for myself & one for Mom & Dad. I am sure if a problem arose, being in their 80's, they would have a problem with a big extinguisher.

 

God Bless

Bill

https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/nationwide-single-car-transport-hauling-open-or-enclosed.614419/

 

 

 

https://elementfire.com/

 

Bill, I am on the National Judging Committee of the Vintage Chevrolet Club of America, and recently we just had a motion to accept the "element" fire extinguisher.  After researching the product with our Insurance carrier (who has a lot of input these matters) we found that the Element did not have a UL label and therefore was not considered acceptable to their standards. 

 

Not questioning the product or it's effectiveness, I am sure it is effective. We really can't blame the insurance companies for having standard requirements either.  

[Steve Moskowitz]

And that is why we (AACA) also have not approved the Element yet (no UL rating).  There is also a very nice new extinguisher from FireXo that looks promising.  I believe both companies are working on the UL problem. Peter, no reason for the gentleman to check with Chuck.  I previously gave the rule from our rule book.  No exceptions.  It is a simple rule by design, size does not matter, working does and UL does!  Ed, of course you need those extinguishers as you drive down the road with a big old stogie in your mouth!  

[SC38dls]

Steve are you saying Ed should use one of his extinguishers on you next time he sees you?  

[Steve Moskowitz]

No, with the grief he causes me, I should use it on him!  

[edinmass]

26 minutes ago, Steve Moskowitz said:

And that is why we (AACA) also have not approved the Element yet (no UL rating).  There is also a very nice new extinguisher from FireXo that looks promising.  I believe both companies are working on the UL problem. Peter, no reason for the gentleman to check with Chuck.  I previously gave the rule from our rule book.  No exceptions.  It is a simple rule by design, size does not matter, working does and UL does!  Ed of course you need those extinguishers as I drive down the road with a big old stogie in your mouth!  

 

 

THE ELEMENT CAN'T GET UL APPROVAL.........IT DOES NOT CONTAIN PRESSURE OR A GUAGE TO READ PRESSURE.......THUS IT CAN'T BE APPROVED BECAUSE OF A TECHNICALITY. They are used in aircraft, and certified for aircraft and other uses. 

1 minute ago, Steve Moskowitz said:

No, with the grief he causes me, I should use it on him!  

 

 

Steve, this is a formal request for a poloticial area on this forum. Please rush the request. Ed

[Steve Moskowitz]

Ed you can't use guages for much of anything, they simply do not work.  It is no wonder UL will not approve them.  Also, for you I would rush a new forum but do not know what a "poloticial" is!  At the bar again I see, but it is a bit early don't you think?

[padgett]

ps 1 fire extinguisher = 1 six pack at drinking temperature.

[padgett]

I carry something in all of my cars.

 

[KdFwagen]

Like others have said here. If not for you, how about your friend. Imagine seeing your friends car starting to burn and you had your fire extinguisher at home in your garage?