General curiosity about 1930 Checker cabs

[AURktman]

I hope this is in the correct section.  I was rummaging through the the classiccarcatalogue.com photos and information (I'm always in the mood to learn more about pre-WW2 cars) and I ran across this article about the 1930 Checker cab,  https://classiccarcatalogue.com/CHECKER_1930.html

 

Now, is it me or does it look like someone spliced a high end car on the back of a cheap front half?  Although, I really like the rectangular headlights.  Anyone have a good backstory on why the car looks like it was two models spliced together?  I know may of the pre-war cars had the chauffeur area that was open while the main cab was enclosed, but it seems like this took it to another level.  E.g., 1914 Rolls Royce Silver Ghost Landauette.  I would assume that is the idea behind the visually different sections.  

 

All photos swiped from the interweb.  

 

https://www.barrett-jackson.com/Events/Event/Details/1914-ROLLS-ROYCE-40/50HP-SILVER-GHOST-LANDAULETTE-BY-BARKER-214524

 

https://classiccarcatalogue.com/CHECKER_1930.html

 

http://www.icta.club/1930-checker-model-m-markintook-his/

[nickelroadster]

Almost all prewar cars that were designed to appeal to the better folks were fancier in the back than the front.  these checker cabs seem to be mirroring that idea.

[1937hd45]

Did you know that Greyhound busses have wheels that don't fit any other vehicles? Checker may have designed those cabs knowing nobody would steal parts from them either. Bob 

[Walt G]

Cabs were in larger cities, not in smaller towns and villages a distance outside of the city. Checker was not the only brand/make of cab , so the competition was there - and eye appeal did play a part in that. Fleets of cabs in major cities were huge. I have a period photograph of a line of cabs in a parking lot parked hubcap to hubcap next to each other circa 1932-33 there has to be over 40 of them. One fleet would be Checker cabs, another Yellow cabs, and there were some other cabs made as well : WiIlys-Knight also had a line of cabs that were not just reworked sedans. I can agree with what nickel;roadster has stated to a great extent.

[AURktman]

42 minutes ago, nickelroadster said:

Almost all prewar cars that were designed to appeal to the better folks were fancier in the back than the front.  these checker cabs seem to be mirroring that idea.

 

It seems just a bit bizarre that the body would be set up as such.  I understand that the more affluent wanted to have the appearance they were traveling in a vehicle consistent with their station in life, but to have / ride in a vehicle that has the split design just seems like its the mechanical version of a Chinese bicycle rickshaw.  Is that actually the idea?  I'm not saying that the rickshaw idea is wrong by any means, it's just strange as I look at every part of a car to enjoy how it all blends together as a work of art.  

 

It reminds me of an automotive version of this meme. 

[alsancle]

Those cabs were built to take a beating.   Their styling was always interesting (until the post war model) and there are almost none of them because they were run in to the ground.

[TAKerry]

I recently read an interesting article on Checker, may have been in the AACA magazine. The cab wars in Chicago were quite brutal in the day over territories. I think there were even regulations in the major cities that said an automobile had to be purpose built for cab duty. I suppose thats why Ford built one as well. I have heard how well built the Checkers were,  no experience with one though. I have never seen an early one, wonder how many survived the scrap drives.

[8E45E]

12 hours ago, AURktman said:

Now, is it me or does it look like someone spliced a high end car on the back of a cheap front half? 

Stands to reason, because that's the money-making half of the car.

 

Craig

[HarryLime]

The best information I have found online is in Coachbuilt.com .   It covers taxis by Checker , Hertz , and Yellow Cab . A great read .

[Rusty_OToole]

The Checker Cab company began by running fleets of taxicabs in major cities, then they started making their own cabs. The chassis was a typical assembled car of the time using components like engine, transmission, frame and axles bought from specialist suppliers and a body built by one of the many body companies that supplied the industry in those days. Bodies were of wooden frame construction with steel or aluminum panels on the outside. Usually bought in batches of 50 or 100 to keep costs down. Evidently they found it cheaper to make their own cars than to buy them, although other companies  made taxicab models. DeSoto made a specialty of this in the thirties and forties but I think all car companies offered taxicabs (or in the case of Cadillac, Packard and Chrysler Imperial, limousines).

 

Checker made cars until the mid 1980s. They offered sedans, station wagons and stretched airport limousines. For the last 20 years or so they sold cars to the general public as well as to commercial users.

Edited January 9, 2021 by Rusty_OToole (see edit history)

[28 Chrysler]

Even up to the end of Checker Cabs the passenger compartment was much roomier than the driver's. Passenger comfort was the priority.

[TTR]

19 minutes ago, 28 Chrysler said:

Even up to the end of Checker Cabs the passenger compartment was much roomier than the driver's. Passenger comfort was the priority.

... like almost all other automobiles throughout the ages intended to be driven by chauffeur/hired help, including Limousines, Town cars, etc. and many of those seem to have/had drivability & driver’s comfort features equaling slightly above a dump truck.

 

Interestingly perhaps and I might’ve mentioned it before, but one of my dearest friends in Europe is a second owner of a ‘72(?) Checker Marathon Sedan that I bought for him over 20 years ago from a private (1st) owner, a retired CIA/FBI investigator living in SF Bay Area.
The car at the time had about 200K miles, but had it been presented as having far less than 100K, most people, including car sales professionals would’ve had likely believed it.
Initially, to inspect it I flew to San Francisco airport where the aging owner/seller met me by the terminal. We went for brief 15-20 minute test drive near the airport, after which I drove back to the terminal and flew back home. 
Later, after the purchase was agreed on, I flew up to SF again with another friend who just wanted to come along for an “adventure” and we just drove it (400+ miles) back, without a single hiccup.

The car has since received a repaint (from its original white to yellow) along with some mechanical overhauls, but is still used as a daily driver during summer months. 

Oh, and my friend in Europe used to own a small taxi service and his all time favorite movie character is a certain “Travis Bickle”. Go figure. 🙄

 

 

[padgett]

"intended to be driven by chauffeur/hired help" - these are easy to spot, the front seat is rarely adjustable.

[TTR]

1 hour ago, padgett said:

"intended to be driven by chauffeur/hired help" - these are easy to spot, the front seat is rarely adjustable.

Yes, quite often, especially in older vintage makes/models.

 

This is why I never quite understood anyone wanting to own, let alone drive such vehicles, no matter how exquisite or majestic they may appear otherwise. Definitely not intended for  driving pleasures, just tools of whichever trade the were produced for.

 

If anything, exclusive, high-end chauffeur driven cars were likely intended to be even more “disposable” than standard automobiles/trucks/vehicles, since owners could or should be expected to afford replacements more frequently and second-hand market is/was even more limited. I mean how many self-respecting captains of industries or business executives want to be seen commuting in an older, used “hand-me-down” models ?

Edited January 9, 2021 by TTR (see edit history)

[AURktman]

11 hours ago, HarryLime said:

The best information I have found online is in Coachbuilt.com .   It covers taxis by Checker , Hertz , and Yellow Cab . A great read .

Well, now you showed me a website where I will spend the next 24 hours....  😁

[Joe in Canada]

Remember in the early 80s Sam McLaughlins  long retired chauffeur telling a friend that besides the drivers compartment being smaller to give room in the back. It was also designed to make the driver sit up straight he said. Sam McLaughlin was the founder of the McLaughlin Car Company that became GM Canada. 

[58L-Y8]

The design motivation for Checkers had multiple purposes to fulfill.  They had to be distinctive enough to be readily identified as Checkers with the idea that customer preference would be to hale those specifically, increasing business for Checker fleet owners.   The open/semi-open driver's compartment harked back to the horse-drawn vehicles that had an attached, enclosed tonneau seating denoting a higher social station for those being chauffeured.  Just as now, transportation conveyance was a way to imply one's social standing, the town car or a taxi with a town car appearance simply another way to do so.  Checker designed their essentially utilitarian cabs to take some advantages of the social mores still held at the time.

[8E45E]

22 hours ago, TTR said:

This is why I never quite understood anyone wanting to own, let alone drive such vehicles, no matter how exquisite or majestic they may appear otherwise. Definitely not intended for  driving pleasures, just tools of whichever trade the were produced for.

That is why I sometimes would prefer an '8-passenger sedan' version of a LWB car over the 'limousine' version.  In a Cadillac Series 75, the front seats are just as opulent as the rear seat (not counting the jump seats.), and there is no partition.

 

Craig

[8E45E]

39 minutes ago, 58L-Y8 said:

The design motivation for Checkers had multiple purposes to fulfill.  They had to be distinctive enough to be readily identified as Checkers with the idea that customer preference would be to hale those specifically, increasing business for Checker fleet owners.   The open/semi-open driver's compartment harked back to the horse-drawn vehicles that had an attached, enclosed tonneau seating denoting a higher social station for those being chauffeured.  Just as now, transportation conveyance was a way to imply one's social standing, the town car or a taxi with a town car appearance simply another way to do so.  Checker designed their essentially utilitarian cabs to take some advantages of the social mores still held at the time.

In the later 30's, Model Y Checkers had an opening rear roof section, operable by the driver, and postwar Checkers had an opening rear window in the days of no air conditioning.

[TTR]

1 hour ago, 58L-Y8 said:

The design motivation for Checkers had multiple purposes to fulfill.  They had to be distinctive enough to be readily identified as Checkers with the idea that customer preference would be to hale those specifically, increasing business for Checker fleet owners.   The open/semi-open driver's compartment harked back to the horse-drawn vehicles that had an attached, enclosed tonneau seating denoting a higher social station for those being chauffeured.  Just as now, transportation conveyance was a way to imply one's social standing, the town car or a taxi with a town car appearance simply another way to do so.  Checker designed their essentially utilitarian cabs to take some advantages of the social mores still held at the time.

Very well stated, thank you.

[28 Chrysler]

 

23 hours ago, padgett said:

"intended to be driven by chauffeur/hired help" - these are easy to spot, the front seat is rarely adjustable.

I had a 1963 Caddy Fleetwood formal Limo with the divider window and rear facing jump seats.  The front seat was just plain black leather and the back was light gray velour with the AC & radio controls on the right.

[ericmac]

I have owned a couple Checkers (as I think any car minded enthusiast from Kalamazoo should) of the late 60s. They are durable, comfortable and powerful cars; truly a delight to drive.  I have also had the opportunity to drive the earliest Checker known to survive. The comment specific to comfort being on par with a dump truck would be highly offensive to the dump truck! I have also driven an English taxi and found the comfort level better than the early Checker, but only by a little. I found in the case of both the early Checker and the English taxi, acceleration is best measured in hours, not seconds. 

[zepher]

On 1/9/2021 at 9:31 AM, TTR said:

This is why I never quite understood anyone wanting to own, let alone drive such vehicles, no matter how exquisite or majestic they may appear otherwise. Definitely not intended for  driving pleasures, just tools of whichever trade the were produced for.

 

I wouldn't say my Pierce Arrow is not pleasurable to drive.  While it may be a limousine, it's still a Pierce Arrow and the front seat area is the same size as the other long wheel base Pierce Arrows for '29.

While someone over 6' tall wouldn't be comfortable there weren't many people over 6' in the 20's.

Even school desks were much smaller back then.

There is more room in the driver's area in my Pierce than in the driver's area of my cousin's '24 Chrysler roadster.  I have to think about how I'm going to get in and out of his Chrysler while getting in and out of the Pierce is like any other car.

[58L-Y8]

1 hour ago, 8E45E said:

In the later 30's, Model Y Checkers had an opening rear roof section, operable by the driver, and postwar Checkers had an opening rear window in the days of no air conditioning.

Yes, the landaulet roof for the enjoyment of the rear seat passengers, retractable to allow them to enjoy the urban 'canyon' views that NYC was so famous for.   It certainly assisted ventilation as well in the pre-air conditioned era.   The DeSoto Skyview took the basic sunroof approach which may have worked as well.  

[8E45E]

2 hours ago, 28 Chrysler said:

 

I had a 1963 Caddy Fleetwood formal Limo with the divider window and rear facing jump seats.  The front seat was just plain black leather and the back was light gray velour with the AC & radio controls on the right.

And the 8-passenger sedan had the same interior as the rear, and the Fleetwoods. 

 

(Poor example as the seat material is not authentic)

[Rusty_OToole]

There are other reasons to design a car specifically for taxicab duty. One has to do with passenger compartment size, a large passenger compartment with jump seats allows for taking 5 passengers instead of 3 and in some cities, this allows the driver to charge more money. Combine a large roomy body with a short wheelbase chassis for maneuverability and a small, heavy duty motor for economy and reliability. All designed for long, hard use with minimal repair and upkeep and you have a car quite different from an ordinary passenger car.

Especially in the teens and twenties it was possible to build a few hundred, or a few thousand cars a year at competitive prices. There were many suppliers of chassis frames, axles, brakes, engines etc and bodies were made with wood frames and metal panels with minimal tooling. Later on the mass produced all steel body, IFS chassis and shrinking number of parts suppliers made it more difficult to get into auto manufacturing.

[TerryB]

Hemings Classic Car magazine ran a two part series about Checker cars in their August and September 2020 issues.  Here’s a link

https://www.hemmings.com/stories/article/checker-cab-manufacturing-co

[Fossil]

That 1939 Checker was a piece of work. 😝

[ericmac]

30 minutes ago, Fossil said:

That 1939 Checker was a piece of work. 😝

I have never been a fan of them. I believe the car at Gilmore Car Museum may be a one-of-one, or one-of-two cars extant. 

[58L-Y8]

And the only place to see those Checker A's when they were prevalent on the street:

New York City in the 1940's - Videos - Antique Automobile Club of America - Discussion Forums (aaca.org)

[TTR]

7 hours ago, zepher said:

 

I wouldn't say my Pierce Arrow is not pleasurable to drive.  While it may be a limousine, it's still a Pierce Arrow and the front seat area is the same size as the other long wheel base Pierce Arrows for '29.

While someone over 6' tall wouldn't be comfortable there weren't many people over 6' in the 20's.

Even school desks were much smaller back then.

There is more room in the driver's area in my Pierce than in the driver's area of my cousin's '24 Chrysler roadster.  I have to think about how I'm going to get in and out of his Chrysler while getting in and out of the Pierce is like any other car.

While I'm not experienced with P.A.'s and don't doubt their engineering and/or execution of it in their construction being excellent, we all have different expectations/interpretations of "driving pleasures".

Mine are based on spirited runs or extended drives on scenic twisty (mountain) roads and alike, i.e. sports car type experiences.

 

I own and have driven/owned dozens of other types of vintage cars which are or were not well suited for such activities and while most are/were well behaving and smooth chassis/suspension/steering/etc, I don't necessarily equate such characteristics with "driving pleasures". I consider them more like a comfortable/nice transportation which I assume P.A. and alike are.

 

As for things like entry or egress, limited luggage or interior space and other creature comforts (AC/heater/ventilation) have clearly been a secondary concern in design & construction of just about all (vintage) "driving pleasure" (= sports ?) cars I've experienced and, IMO, is to be expect in such.

 

Think of it in terms of those back-in-the-day "captains of industries and business executives" having had themselves chauffeured/transported to their offices and/or other business meetings during the week within comfortable confines of Limousines, Town Cars or perhaps just a Taxi, but then on weekends, they would go out and enjoy real "driving pleasures" with their GT or sports cars on scenic back roads and secondary highways outside the cities/suburbias, maybe have a roadside picnic lunch or an overnight stay at some remote hotel/motel/resort or their country estate or cabin at the mountains. 

 

Things like drag/street/etc racing, getting to/from car gatherings/shows by easiest/quickest route or driving around some suburban neighborhoods don't really offer me much "driving pleasures". Perhaps because I don't have desire or need to prove my cars being faster than someone else's and tend to view the other two activities more like commuting, although experiencing such in an older vintage cars is more enjoyable than most anything manufactured within past 50 or so years.

[AURktman]

2 hours ago, 58L-Y8 said:

And the only place to see those Checker A's when they were prevalent on the street:

New York City in the 1940's - Videos - Antique Automobile Club of America - Discussion Forums (aaca.org)

 

Watching that 40 Checker was a bit creepy.   Reminds me of this.  

 

I assume the entire design of the Checker cab was one of maintenance and ease of manufacture by 1940.  Would this be a fair assumption? 

Edited January 11, 2021 by AURktman (see edit history)

[58L-Y8]

8 hours ago, AURktman said:

"Watching that 40 Checker was a bit creepy."..."I assume the entire design of the Checker cab was one of maintenance and ease of manufacture by 1940.  Would this be a fair assumption? "

Yes, those were among the primary considerations.  As purpose-built vehicles, they had to meet and exceed the expectations and demands of the end-user taxi fleet owners.   Any aspect of the design engineering that failed in the rigors of daily operation had to be quickly corrected or eventually the taxi fleet owners would seek another make as replacement.  As can be seen in the 1940's movie, the DeSoto Skyview was a formidable competitor for the Checker. 

[West Peterson]

23 hours ago, ericmac said:

I have owned a couple Checkers (as I think any car minded enthusiast from Kalamazoo should) of the late 60s. They are durable, comfortable and powerful cars; truly a delight to drive.  I have also had the opportunity to drive the earliest Checker known to survive. The comment specific to comfort being on par with a dump truck would be highly offensive to the dump truck! I have also driven an English taxi and found the comfort level better than the early Checker, but only by a little. I found in the case of both the early Checker and the English taxi, acceleration is best measured in hours, not seconds. 

 

I highly suspect that the car did not drive worse than a dump truck when it was new. If the car is "restored," I would bet a LOT of money that whoever did it paid no attention to the steering components. I hear the exact same comments about Packards, Pierce-Arrow, Duesenberg, etc. If they drive and steer like a truck, something is NOT right.

[TTR]

2 hours ago, West Peterson said:

whoever did it paid no attention to the steering components. ... If they drive and steer like a truck, something is NOT right.

In my (limited) experience, this often applies to many, if not most, 50-60+ year old cars AND/OR drivers/owners lack of experience and/or tendency to compare their old car's handling to modern vehicles they use daily.

I believe this also why many antique/classic/vintage car owners are so quick to get their cars brakes/steering/suspension converted/modified with aftermarket components, which seemingly in many cases don't necessarily "improve" anything, just makes it NOT right differently, instead of rebuilding original systems to their (factory) intended condition/specs.  

Edited January 11, 2021 by TTR (see edit history)

[West Peterson]

Exactly. And in most cases, it would probably be much less of a headache, and take less time to restore it properly than to remove and replace.

[TTR]

22 minutes ago, West Peterson said:

Exactly. And in most cases, it would probably be much less of a headache, and take less time to restore it properly than to remove and replace.

Especially if/when that replacement item is something that wasn’t specifically designed and intended as direct replacement for the given application.
Vast majority of aftermarket replacement components seem to be rather generic “One-size-fits-nothing” and comes with those small little disclaimer prints referring to “Limited liability” or “For off-road use only”.

[8E45E]

On 1/10/2021 at 10:21 AM, ericmac said:

I found in the case of both the early Checker and the English taxi, acceleration is best measured in hours, not seconds. 

Tick..Tick...Tick... goes the meter!!!$!!$!$

 

Craig

[ericmac]

9 hours ago, West Peterson said:

 

I highly suspect that the car did not drive worse than a dump truck when it was new. If the car is "restored," I would bet a LOT of money that whoever did it paid no attention to the steering components. I hear the exact same comments about Packards, Pierce-Arrow, Duesenberg, etc. If they drive and steer like a truck, something is NOT right.

The car I drove was restored by none other that the maintenance staff of Checker Motors. It actually didn't steer too badly but suffered poor acceleration (probably a result of extremely low gearing) and an absolutely miserable seating position. Hence,  I think a truck would be more comfortable to drive. 

[ericmac]

2 hours ago, 8E45E said:

Tick..Tick...Tick... goes the meter!!!$!!$!$

 

Craig

How true!