New forum rules

[Seafoam65]

                      In order to view the Riviera forum today I had to agree with AACA's new rules

stating that all posts regarding non stock cars i.e. restomods or hot rods would be deleted

as the AACA promotes stock restorations. I assume this means that this forum will have posts

from now on regarding only as built stock Rivieras? Are previous restomod threads being deleted as well

as future ones? This doesn't affect me personally as my car is completely stock, but  I was very surprised

at this change in rules regarding the forum.......I can't see this really being a positive thing, although I understand

AACA's viewpoint.......I do enjoy reading threads about well executed restomod cars.  I would enjoy seeing

everyone's opinions on this matter. One thing I'm not sure about is where you draw the line regarding stock Automobiles......

What about a stock  63 Riviera with 65 chrome wheels on it? I assume the restomod owners will immediately go to the

Riviera facebook group if they haven't already done so?

Edited February 11, 2020 by Seafoam65 (see edit history)

[Turbinator]

Winston, your point is well taken.

I think customized cars, resto mods, hot rods and the like can be a subset under each model automobile. Or even a subset of the brand of automobile. My car is stock. I put different wheels on for different events. All in all my car is stock; however, I’ve shown pics of modified wheels on my car with Buick center cap assembly. Stock? No. Out of place? I don’t think so.

From a purists point of view I’m all wrong. So, is having metal valve caps on my tires is non stock. I have radial 710 R 15 bias look tires on my car? Stock? No. The tires look like they are bias tires. Am I wrong? It’s our car we can show it like we want. I’m my opinion a 63 Riv with 1” white wall radial tires is great. I think 65 Rallye Wheels on a 63 although looks sharp can be shown in stock or slightly modified. I don’t vote in peer judging. So many of the cars look so good I can’t make up my mind how to vote.

Turbinator

[SwedeDownUnderR63]

I have a dual master cylinder and front disk brakes in my ‘63 together with modern tires and modern bilsteins shocks as I love to drive my car a lot. I probably have some Chinese parts on the car too as some are not available made in the USA. Should I stop using the forum now?
I try to keep the look original and parts that could  be reused if one would like to revert back to complete original, whatever that is, are kept. To me it seems that the forum is going to support pure originals only for the future which in the end will take away us daily drivers.

This would be sad as alternatives such as the Facebook forums are really crappy.

Edited February 11, 2020 by SwedeDownUnderR63 (see edit history)

[jframe]

Yeah, what exactly is a true definition of "stock"? My '65 didn't come with Rally wheels, the wood steering wheel, four note horn or the updated Custom Autosound radio. It also has gas shocks and radial tires. So are they going to eliminate cars like this?

[NC1968Riviera]

I have a 69 bumper on my 68 and a new technology radio replacing the stock radio. Will my posts be deleted?

 

And, BTW, who is doing the policing of the forums?

[riv2x4]

Have to wonder if this is more an AACA issue vs a BCA issue, especially in a forum/group/ROA that has historically supported modifications.

[JZRIV]

AACA owns and operates the forum and we get to ride along for free. THANK YOU AACA. Whatever they want to do is perfectly fine with me.  

 

Not a member of AACA and someone correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think they support or have classes at their shows for customs or modifieds. I see the new guidelines as after looking in the mirror to get back to their mission statement and I commend them for that. AACA does allow for several modifications for safety, and other items in their judging guidlines. I doubt the moderators are going to split hairs when it comes to deleting posts but the clear customs or heavily modified cars or relative posts will probably be deleted. 

 

There are other forums and venues that cater to customs, restomods, etc where folks can show off and promote that sector of the hobby. BCA and ROA have mission statements that include the words "preservation and restoration" but they welcome customs and modified cars which is direct opposition...... likely to help the ever decreasing membership. The mission statements should be updated to include promoting customs and modification as well as preservation and restoration. BCA nor ROA is affiliated with AACA so any allowances for customs/modified within their clubs does not carry over onto AACA turf.

 

Edit: Just saw this note from Steve Moskowitz AACA Executive Director. As promised, the AACA Board of Directors, reviewed our forum policies at a meeting February 6, 2020.  They unanimously voted to keep our forums in line with the stated goals of our club.  The club has complete respect for other forms of the automotive hobby but our aims are specific to saving history and we believe there are other wonderful organizations who can fill the needs of those interested in modified cars.  We will be updating our membership terms for using this forum to make it clear about our intent.  Thanks for your sharing your thoughts with us.

 

 

Edited February 12, 2020 by JZRIV (see edit history)

[KongaMan]

1 hour ago, jframe said:

Yeah, what exactly is a true definition of "stock"?

It's like pornography: you know it when you see it.

[Ckerch]

 

This is similar to NCRS for Corvettes and look at what is happening to that market. As an owner of two 69's for more than 25 years, I actually had people come up to me at shows and said I should sell my vehicles to someone who will appreciate them. This was all because I had changed the radio and the body was too perfect. In other words it did not have the right waves in the fiberglass and was repainted. I quit going to their shows and just enjoyed driving my vettes for what it is and not how many points it gets. However, other owners did not take it so mildly and got away from their Corvettes all together. To bad because it turns people away from those cars, not because they no longer like the car, but did not want to put up with the snubbyness. Don't get me wrong, as I appreciate the work and money it take to bring a vehicle back to stock but also like to see people make their car their own. However, this will divide the hobby into two separate groups that both have a passion for the same vehicle. Too bad because both can learn from each other.

This also seems to go against the trend toward restomods (especially the younger group). 

 

I apologize for being on such a high soap box but it seems like deja vu all over again.

 

Carl

[Chimera]

I personally attempt to keep as factory/original as possible and appreciate that many members of the RoA specialize in this venue. That being said, I have often posted modified Rivieras, such as a 66 Dual Quad GS with hydraulics, because it is good to be informed as to what is out there and provides for perspective conversation associated. It should be based on the perspective and intentions of the post more than subject/object alone. I will dial back the sexual content (hehe) and less historical content, however it seems fair game if the proper amount of Riviera DNA is detected. For example when people post Chimera High-breeds with boat-tail in the back and Clamshells in front; these "what if" type concept scenarios seem historically relevant TO ME anyway. Lets keep it classy and hope they don't split hairs. 

[Turbinator]

12 hours ago, SwedeDownUnderR63 said:

I have a dual master cylinder and front disk brakes in my ‘63 together with modern tires and modern bilsteins shocks as I love to drive my car a lot. I probably have some Chinese parts on the car too as some are not available made in the USA. Should I stop using the forum now?
I try to keep the look original and parts that could  be reused if one would like to revert back to complete original, whatever that is, are kept. To me it seems that the forum is going to support pure originals only for the future which in the end will take away us daily drivers.

This would be sad as alternatives such as the Facebook forums are really crappy.

Sir, last things first. Facebook forums are weak at best.

 

The enhancements you’ve made to your car have not materially changed the construction or design of the car. The front brakes, dual master brake cylinder, and radial tires You added are for your safety. I would award points for a driver car you that you can take drives and enjoy your vehicle,

If the ROA was a club for “trailer queens” Id go along with nylon bias tires single brake cylinder 100% used parts replacement from donor/parts cars as standard level of acceptance.

I think there are limits on where you place your car for peer judging, but then again it is for fun. If a person wants an after market AC that works in his car and the rest of his car is stock it should enter as stock. Thank you for your participation.

Turbinator

[Hazdaz]

What is this nonsense?

 

Many of the old timers who grew up with these cars are dieing off.  That's just a fact of life.  My car is 56 years old so you'd have to be in your 70s to have owned one when new.  There has been a lot of grumblings in the last few years that the younger generation just isn't into cars anymore, and especially not old American classics.  

 

 So instead of accepting the few younger people who might be into these classics, but might want to make it their own by modifying their cars to suit their tastes, this community is just going to put the blinders on and turn their backs away from them?!

 

This is just the kind if "us versus them" mentality that has ruined so many other things in our society.  Instead of accepting a variety of groups,  let's segment the audience.  If you guys haven't noticed, there isn't a whole heck of a lot of traffic on these pages every day, so what happens when this non-inclusive policy kicks even more people off this site?  

 

What's even more ridiculous  is where does this policy stop?  Parts for these cars aren't exactly plentiful.  There is little choice for many other than to use non-stock parts.  Does using other GM parts make yours non-stock?  What about using parts from a newer car?  This rabbit hole goes all the way down and shows just how shortsighted  and ridiculous this policy change is. 

 

But what's even worse of all is that I never saw this particular part of the site get overrun by modified cars.  Maybe other ones were inundated with restomod threads, but I kind of doubt it, quite honestly.  Seeing some non-stock build once in a while sounds more interesting than the same thing over and over again.

[MrEarl]

I really don't think there is need for worry. Personally I'd suggest not making a big deal out of it and drawing attention. Just carry on as usual...

 

 

[MrEarl]

15 hours ago, SwedeDownUnderR63 said:

This would be sad as alternatives such as the Facebook forums are really crappy.

 

2 hours ago, Turbinator said:

Facebook forums are weak at best.

 

Thanks guys, good to know I haven't been missing anything...

[J3Studio]

I'm not really concerned—I think the AACA feels that they have to re-assert what the center of their forum purpose is. I'll note that they created a Reatta forum when no Reatta met the 25 year rule.

 

I expect to continue to ask 1996-1999 Riviera questions without fear of reprisal.

[RivNut]

6 hours ago, Turbinator said:

Sir, last things first. Facebook forums are weak at best.

Kind of reminds me of middle school kids years ago. "I'll be your Facebook friend if you'll be mine."  But now it's, "I'll say you car is neat if you'll say mine is neat."

 

I read the Riviera Owners Facebook page through my wife's page (Don't have on of my own.) The questions are similar to the questions that were asked 25 years ago when Chris Knowles hosted a forum through the servers at the college where he worked in Hamilton, Ontario.  I recognize a couple of names but I also recognize that these gentlemen do not give out too much information.  It would be like trying to teach calculus to a 1st grader.  

 

Although it carries the ROA name, I don't think that there are very many of the ROA Facebook community who are actual ROA members. But that's the way things are now.  If it's on the internet, it's open to the public so why should I have to pay for it. Like me using the AACA site.  Bad Eddie, I think I'd better listen to myself and join.

Edited February 12, 2020 by RivNut (see edit history)

[RivNut]

Well, I heeded my own advice.  I joined the AACA.  I would add my AACA member number to my signature but I wasn't given one.  ????   They sure were anxious to sell me a bunch of other stuff though. I thought that they'd at least be interested in what kind of car I owned.

[J3Studio]

1 hour ago, RivNut said:

Well, I heeded my own advice.  I joined the AACA.  I would add my AACA member number to my signature but I wasn't given one.  ????   They sure were anxious to sell me a bunch of other stuff though. I thought that they'd at least be interested in what kind of car I owned.

 

I've been an AACA member for quite a few years—they'll get around to it. You'll get your number on the card they send—I put mine in my signature so you can see the format. The magazine (Antique Automobile) is interesting in its own way; it often features superb photos of the extremely varied range of original and restored cars they judge. I believe the Ken Eberts painting on the cover of the holiday issue every year is a wonderful bonus.

 

They do cover Rivieras—one of the T-Types at the Gettysburg meet last year was featured in Antique Automobile a few years ago. Here's a link of cars entering the Hershey judging field back in 2014:
 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/j3studio/albums/72157648706586666

Edited February 12, 2020 by J3Studio (see edit history)

[SpecialEducation]

18 hours ago, JZRIV said:

AACA owns and operates the forum and we get to ride along for free. THANK YOU AACA. Whatever they want to do is perfectly fine with me.  

 

Free?!?  I thought the BCA paid AACA for the virtual real estate this forum occupies?

 

Either way, the statement said repeated violations may result in revocation of AACA membership, and since I’m not a member off the AACA (the group is a bit uptight for my tastes), I really don’t think they will affect me much. 
 

That said, I think it was in bad form and showed poor forethought to throw that in our faces. Regardless of whether or not the BCA compensates AACA for our bandwidth, the AACA is generating ad revenue every time I log in.  
 

I’m more bothered by Asian spammers than Old Tank’s electric fuel pump... lol

[RockinRiviDad]

WTF?!?!

I must admit, I didn’t read the new policy change. I just pressed “I agree”…that’s proof that I am not the sharpest tool in the shed. But for those of u that have followed my 7 year restomod build thread here u know I never claimed to be smart. Heck, I have no business trying to build a car. But I must pat myself on the back for not giving up…boy did I want to many times 
 

Starting my first ever frame-off car build on a First Gen Rivi was a huge mistake. I learned that quickly when prices were high for parts I needed. At first I thought I would keep my build stock & things kinda took a turn in other directions. My goal was not a Restomod. It just ended up that way. I guess I should’ve left this forum at that fork in the road 

 

I probably fall in the category of “younger people?” at 46 years old (37 when I started working on my 65). I love the help that I have received here from u guys. Thx. But from I read in this thread I guess this means goodbye for me & my 7 years of progress threads??? My only hope was that my content would help others minimize there woes. In a sense I felt like I was “paying forward” the things I learned in appreciation of all the help this forum gave me. 
 

now I guess I will have to scramble to cut & paste all my content to share elsewhere. I guess it’ll have to be FB??? 🤷🏻‍♂️ I’m fairly new there. I haven’t read anything about them turning their backs on their people.

 

Posting my progress was a TON of work in itself. Remember when this forum changed formats a few years back. I had to scramble then too. Oh, this is like when Photofuckit deleted all our pix. I scrambled to keep my content here on the forum for others to see that time too. Come to think of it…I’m not sure I wanna keep playing this game…what a bummer 😟…I might be done
 

HazDaz said it best. The “Us vs Them” mentality or segregation is not gonna do the classic car community any good

[60FlatTop]

6 hours ago, RockinRiviDad said:

I must admit, I didn’t read the new policy change. I just pressed “I agree”

 

Same here. I do it on all computer stuff and quite often with my wife.

 

Scrolled down through this whole topic and just glanced at the comments.

 

I have found that change is generally reactionary. I don't change much.

Bernie

[J3Studio]

6 hours ago, RockinRiviDad said:

WTF?!?!

I must admit, I didn’t read the new policy change. I just pressed “I agree”…that’s proof that I am not the sharpest tool in the shed. But for those of u that have followed my 7 year restomod build thread here u know I never claimed to be smart. Heck, I have no business trying to build a car. But I must pat myself on the back for not giving up…boy did I want to many times 
 

Starting my first ever frame-off car build on a First Gen Rivi was a huge mistake. I learned that quickly when prices were high for parts I needed. At first I thought I would keep my build stock & things kinda took a turn in other directions. My goal was not a Restomod. It just ended up that way. I guess I should’ve left this forum at that fork in the road 

 

I probably fall in the category of “younger people?” at 46 years old (37 when I started working on my 65). I love the help that I have received here from u guys. Thx. But from I read in this thread I guess this means goodbye for me & my 7 years of progress threads??? My only hope was that my content would help others minimize there woes. In a sense I felt like I was “paying forward” the things I learned in appreciation of all the help this forum gave me. 
 

now I guess I will have to scramble to cut & paste all my content to share elsewhere. I guess it’ll have to be FB??? 🤷🏻‍♂️ I’m fairly new there. I haven’t read anything about them turning their backs on their people.

 

Posting my progress was a TON of work in itself. Remember when this forum changed formats a few years back. I had to scramble then too. Oh, this is like when Photofuckit deleted all our pix. I scrambled to keep my content here on the forum for others to see that time too. Come to think of it…I’m not sure I wanna keep playing this game…what a bummer 😟…I might be done
 

HazDaz said it best. The “Us vs Them” mentality or segregation is not gonna do the classic car community any good

 

I don't think there's any reason you should leave—that policy write-up was really an attempt to solve issues they are having in the main forum. It has little to nothing to do with our little ROA section …

[telriv]

I totally agree with J3Studio

 

Tom T.

[jsgun]

Considering that the AACA is about restoration, it makes sense. Another car forum I go to has a model year cut-off (64 and earlier), and are very aggressive about enforcing it. Previously, when they were lax about the rules it was getting over-run with off topic car post (late models). 

 

When I first got on the internet in the late 90's, car forums were few and far between. But now, you can find one catering to almost any subject. My 64 is slowly turning into a restomod. I come here for information about the stock aspects of it, and go to hot rod forums for the mod aspects. 

[telriv]

I've been modifying mine since the day I got it in '64, BUT trying to keep it in the confines of at least stock appearing.  Can be very rewarding & frustrating both, BUT it's what I enjoy.

[RivNut]

FAST is a organization of cars that might suit some of you guys well.  Do what ever you want to your engine to get the maximum out of it, but the car has to appear stock and run on tires that would have been stock at the date of production.  Factory Appearing Stock Tires.  Check them out.  Watch a hemi powered 'Cuda run on 14" bias ply tires.

Edited February 16, 2020 by RivNut (see edit history)

[Hazdaz]

On 2/15/2020 at 4:10 AM, RockinRiviDad said:

...HazDaz said it best. The “Us vs Them” mentality or segregation is not gonna do the classic car community any good

 

Post like yours are exactly what I was thinking of when I wrote my complaint a few days ago. 

 

Some of you guys are saying "oh, well the site isnt really gonna delete these posts" or " we are safe here in ROA-land" but you guys are missing the point.  If the rules are there, then the threat is there that you can come in here looking to update your ongoing thread about the disc brakes you added to your car, or the aftermarket paintjob or something like that and find that it has been deleted.  Posting pics of a long build and writing up what you did takes time and effort.  This is one of the reasons this site is so great because guys are willing to do all that for the betterment of the community (and n00bs like myself thank you guys for all that effort),  but you better believe those same guys would be pissed if they found out their photos and instructions were deleted because it didn't meet some silly site requirements about being stock.  

 

It's just a dumb rule to enact even if they never fully act on it.  It needlessly creates division.

 

It's like a local town putting up 25 MPH speed limit signs.  As a resident you know they'll never pull you over for going 30 or 35, but the threat is still there that one day some cop looking to fill his quota is gonna pull you over.  It just doesnt sit right with me.

[60FlatTop]

Just read the post above and thought about Loins Club meetings where they shake the can with quarters every time you do something inappropriate. Every member could submit their PayPal card or equivalent and be charged $0.25 for writing about modifications, extra quarter for each picture. A pop up for each occurrence would make it just as annoying as one of those meetings.

[RivNut]

We'd be rich just seeing pictures of that '59 flat top. 😁

[60FlatTop]

I have 8.20 X 15's on it instead of the correct 8.00's. But I take the side streets in town  and stay away from Main ST. Seems to work OK.

 

Oh! I used gloss paint on the torque, too.

[KongaMan]

8 hours ago, 60FlatTop said:

Just read the post above and thought about Loins Club meetings where they shake the can with quarters every time you do something inappropriate.

Never been to a Loins Club meeting.  What's the dress code? And what could possibly be inappropriate?

[RivNut]

A loincloth for sure.  Tarzan as the role model.

[60FlatTop]

I did a couple of presentations for the. Casual business attire for me. Most can rattling was for the potty mouth ones. No Carol Burnett imitations but a couple of Cheetah imitators tried to distract me.... maybe.

 

I was invited back so I did something entertaining. I talked about government regulations. They raised quite a bit of money in that can.

[bb1970]

Bye. I wish you all well. Bill

[arnulfo de l.a.]

In my world there are certain rules that are meant to be broken.  This is one of them. My rivi is not a restomod  nor does it have anything that is not factory but if it did i would post it and even more so after a stupid rule like this was being imposed. I would not jist leave. Bills car is beautiful,i like looking at it and other members like rockinrividad  david have contributed one hell of alot. Driving members like that out over a pety a$$ rule will surely kill this forum as well as be a loss to the acca

[telriv]

 Again totally agree.   I, as many of you know, have owned my '64 Riv. since new. For the most part it's stock, BUT you are not going to run a 13.902ET@98mph if yours were completely stock.  I drive my car to enjoy. NOT what some rules will allow me to do.

Will I leave because of this NO NO NO!!!!!   NOT until the time comes that I will be reprimanded if I don't do certain things

I, as well as MANY others, have contributed to this forum with the knowledge we have all gained threw all these years.

Are my FEELINGS HURT???? NOT personally. Do I care????   Of course I do or I wouldn't be here.

To those who are leaving just because of some rules that may or may not apply to you I feel you are doing the wrong thing & over reacting.

Re-think your thoughts.

Just my thoughts on the subject.

 

Tom T.

[alini]

I stopped in because someone told me a person was looking for help and I may have an answer.   Then I found this.  Call it what you will, I used this forum extensively in the rebuilding of my Riv back in the day.  I took a car from the grave, having not moved in a dirt field for 14 years and gave it life again.    Was it restoration quality, not by any means.  Did I modify a few things to make it custom, yes.

Did I learn a ton...YES, did I meet some great people and make a few friends, YES.   That should be the focus, education and friendly sharing of info....what someone does with that info is up to the.

If a 'restoration' only mantra is put in place, this will really slow traffic and many are going to find other sources of data.

Just my opinion