Offer Insults Seller

[Pomeroy41144]

I am interested in an old car.

I found the make and model that I want on line and near my home.

The problem: the seller (the son of the third owner) has the car priced at nearly twice as much as what it is really worth.

First, about the car; the make and model are not important in this discussion, just the conditions of the sale. The car is a pre-war survivor that does not run. It has a couple of non-original parts but other than that it is original and complete but in need of a total restoration. Car has original engine and trans. The car smells to high heaven of weed killer or some other critter killing chemical. The car has been in storage (uncovered) in a warehouse since 1992 and has not run since about that time. The seller says that it ran when they parked it, which, quite frankly, means absolutely nothing to me because the car does not run presently. The car is essentially a barn find in need of a total restoration.

After studying the market and much deliberation with several old car enthusiasts, including the president of my antique car club chapter, the consensus is that the car, listed at $11,500, is actually worth about $6,500. The 11.5 price does not agree with any price guide, which says an operating and complete car of this type in similar condition is worth about $4,000. The 11.5 price does not agree with the market either. I have found any number of similar cars at the same price or below that actually run and look presentable. The asking price for this vehicle is on par with a high number-three condition vehicle, which the subject vehicle is not.

I would like to restore this car. But how do I get this guy to climb down from this very unrealistic price? I want to offer him the $6,500, but I get the feeling that he will be insulted by this fair offer, which is about 2,500 more than the price guide (in deference to the original condition of the vehicle).

This happened to me before. I made an offer on a Cadillac that was over priced by about 30 percent. The guy was insulted big time. The car was nice, but not worth what he wanted. He wasn't an a-hole to me but he was quite unhappy by the offer and said so. Well, six months later he calls and asks if I am still interested in the car at the original offer. I could have been a jerk about it and walked away and laughed but I liked the car so I bought it anyway.

How should I handle it? Bring in the evidence of the market and the price guides? The guy has old cars, so he should know better. I'm guessing that he might have misread a price guide and listed the price of a basket case phaeton instead of the 4dr he has (the asking price lines up with a similar condition open car in the price guide). If I buy the car and restore it, I will probably keep it for the rest of my life. The car won't get cut up or hot-rodded or blown up on cable tv--it'll go to a good home. Should I emphasis that?

Anyways I want to make a fair offer, but I don't want a big issue either.

How do I handle it?

Any help appreciated.

Thanks.

Pomeroy41144

Edited May 5, 2011 by Pomeroy41144 (see edit history)

[keiser31]

As diplomatically as you can, go to the guy with "proof" of recent comparable sales of similar cars and ask if he could come down to the area of those prices. If he cannot, move on. There MUST be another 4 door of whatever you are looking at that you can get at a more reasonable cost.

[JFranklin]

Offer the price guide price and go from there, he will bargain to a price or not sell the car. You can not truly offend anybody seriously by making a fair offer.

[Bhigdog]

What Keiser said. Just keep in mind that a car like that is worth exactly what a willing buyer will pay. You have to decide what it is worth to you, it being exactly what you want and close to home. Those things are not factored into any price guide.............Bob

[drwatson]

If he really wants to sell it and you really want to buy it, I see no problem bringing up what the "guides" say about its market value. He might think there's some undefined value such what happens at an auction when actual sale price far exceeds pre-auction estimate. It wouldn't hurt to hear his reasoning...., very subjective. After some open discussion, I'd say make the offer. good luck.

[West Peterson]

Personally, I feel if you start showing him value guide figures, that's insulting, makes you look like a vulture, that "you know more than he knows," and that the only thing that matters to you is price. I strongly suggest you do not do that. Tell him you really like the car, and what you're prepared to offer, and let him counter... or not.

I think you handled the Cadillac deal about right... except that I would have said I've cooled off on the idea of owning it now, but if you'd take $xxxx, I'll come and get it right now.

[trimacar]

I agree with not using the guides. Go to the guy, have a frank discussion that says you'll pay x amount, that's the most you can afford to put in the car in the condition it's in.

Be prepared to walk away, if he says no. Be prepared to be diplomatic, if he gets aggravated at the offer, and just say you feel it's a fair offer, and walk away then too.

The key to all this, is you can't be hung up on getting that particular car, or you'll end up in a very unproductive argument with the would-be seller............

[60FlatTop]

"I get the feeling that he will be insulted by this fair offer" Never deny the decision maker their opportunity to make their decision. For me it is a lifestyle concept.

I only buy cars from nice people. It seems like the jerks leave a stigma of their personality in the car. It has happened a couple of times. Now, if the person has an obvious negative personality problem, they couldn't give me the car no matter how special it is.

On the side of pricing, I have always looked at the purchase price as an "Entry Fee". It allows you to start spending money. There are at least 300 $100 jobs in your future if you do a total restoration on a prewar car, probably 400 or 500 is more like it. Four or five thousand dollars will not make a big difference at the 100% complete mark.

How much a person wants a car has a great deal to do with pricing. I hope my next car is one that drives me crazy trying to figure out how to get the extra money before someone slips in and buys it before me. I want to feel my stomach in knots, my heart pounding in anticipation. I know I will be doing everything in my power to capture that car.

Years ago I bought a Smith Motor Compressor. It was an early model portable air compressor with a Ford Model A cowl, hood, and radiator; as well as a converted engine. I was buying another car from the owner. I said "Wow!" and bought it. A short time later a friend showed me a picture of it in the letters section of a Model A club magazine. Someone was writing in to ask if they should buy it. I guess they were a little slow on the trigger.

Bottom line is: buying an old car is not a logical process. If you sink your funds into a logical purchase Murphy's Law says the illogical heartbreaker is right around the corner.

[Pomeroy41144]

"I get the feeling that he will be insulted by this fair offer" Never deny the decision maker their opportunity to make their decision. For me it is a lifestyle concept.

Bottom line is: buying an old car is not a logical process. .

Thanks everyone for the advice.

Flat top, I won't go into detail of how and why I am making this assumption about the seller. One big reason is the unrealisitic price.

I am prepared to walk away and find a car that won't require a couple years of restoration. My wife wants a car that can be enjoyed right now, not two years from now. But like a lot of other guys, I see an old car and think that with some work this old car can be back on the road and looking good. I guess it is the Ellie Mae Clampett syndrome of old cars. Instead of saving the critters, save the old cars. I guess I am no different.

At the right price, this car would be a worth while project; at the price it is being offered, not so much. I won't get hung up on this one, but it is worth exploring. I am going to wait a few months and if the car is still for sale at that price, I'll make the offer as diplomatically as possible. In those few months there will be other opportunities, so I will keep a very open minds. This is a big country, and there are a lot of old cars out there.

Thanks for the great discussion.

Pomeroy

Edited May 5, 2011 by Pomeroy41144 (see edit history)

[Guest billybird]

I agree with West. For all he knows the paper work could be "doctored" I would have it with me but keep it in my pocket. Spend some time there, talk to him about various subjects including cars. I have seen a deal struck because people had another intrest besides what they were actually trying to buy. Gain his confidence so he'll believe you're not a swindler. This may take more than one visit. If it gets this far, ask him if he would like to see some "research" you've been doing. I would also tell him of my intentions not to hot rod the car, or "flip" it with the intention of making money. let him know you intend to keep the car. Then it will be time to discuss price. I realize some people are not going to budge I don't care what you do. I wish you luck.

[Pomeroy41144]

I agree with West. For all he knows the paper work could be "doctored" I would have it with me but keep it in my pocket. Spend some time there, talk to him about various subjects including cars. I have seen a deal struck because people had another intrest besides what they were actually trying to buy. Gain his confidence so he'll believe you're not a swindler. This may take more than one visit. If it gets this far, ask him if he would like to see some "research" you've been doing. I would also tell him of my intentions not to hot rod the car, or "flip" it with the intention of making money. let him know you intend to keep the car. Then it will be time to discuss price. I realize some people are not going to budge I don't care what you do. I wish you luck.

BillyBird,

When he showed the car the first time (a few weeks ago), we spent some time talking about other things and he seemed like a nice guy in general. We even know some of the same people, which is real good. So we were mixing well already and that will help later on.

The car was tucked in the corner of a warehouse when I was first allowed to view it. I had good access and okay light but when I go back I will insist that the car be brought out in the open so I can really go over it.

Like I said above, I will keep an open mind. And you never know what will become available between then and now. So I may never go back if the right car comes along first.

I'll keep looking.

Thanks to all who replied.

Pomeroy41144

Edited May 5, 2011 by Pomeroy41144 (see edit history)

[Matt Harwood]

As someone who buys and sells cars for a living, I deal with this on a daily basis, and it's by far the hardest part of my job. It is extremely rare to find someone who doesn't think that his car is worth more than the market will bear. Many collectors frankly expect a "return on their investment" just for owning the car, and it makes me nuts. Worse yet, if you bought it at an auction, you were, by definition, willing to pay more for it than anybody else. Where do you go from there?

If any of you have reviewed my website, you probably can easily spot the cars where the owners feel this way. The ones who don't, well, their cars live on the "SOLD" page.

Quite honestly, I believe auctions are the primary reason for this. I don't hate them, but almost without exception, sellers say, "I saw one just like it go for $XXX,XXX," or "Well, I could send it to auction and get $XXX,XXX for it." Well, maybe, but you'd really only get 80% of $XXX,XXX after commissions and shipping. But that's not the point and I digress.

As we've lamented here before, people watch #1 perfect, amazing cars go for huge money, and assume that the high tide has floated all the boats. It has not, but it can often be challenging to explain the difference between his #3 car and that #1 car, or to have to tell a seller that one sale does not a trend make. For all their enthusiasm for the hobby, many collector car owners demonstrate a shocking naivety about condition versus price and knowledge of market values. And many, honestly, just don't care about money--they just love the cars whatever they cost, something I admire as a hobbyist, but struggle with as a dealer.

It's also possible that the fellow in this case is just fishing for offers, with no real intention to sell. I've worked with guys who don't want to sell their car unless they can get their unobtainable number. So it sits there with that number on it, waiting for someone who will never come, and the owner doesn't really mind. He's not motivated.

I don't think you've insulted the guy with your offer (or if you haven't made it, go ahead). The worst he'll say is, "No," and you can work on finding something else. In the mean time, nobody else will call, or other guys will call with offers similar to yours, and maybe he'll get the message. Ask him to hold on to your number and if he changes his mind, you'd like first right of refusal. That way he can get back to you when reality starts smacking him in the face.

Bargains are out there and many sellers are reasonable--my '29 Cadillac is proof of that. But sometimes it takes nothing happening to force sellers to do something reasonable.

Does this help? I can't tell. Maybe I'm just ranting.

Edited May 5, 2011 by Matt Harwood (see edit history)

[Guest Jim_Edwards]

Why would you worry about insulting the guy by giving him the figure you are willing to pay for the car. He'll either jump on it or try to negotiate something higher. If he gets insulted so what, you'll probably never see him again anyway. It's your money and if he really wants to sell he'll get reasonable or be sitting on it for a long time.

Reminds me of every dipstick that owned a piece of property along an Interstate highway thinking their undeveloped land with no utilities of any nature was valuable commercial property even though it was ten miles from anything.

Jim

[Pomeroy41144]

Thanks Matt.

It is good to hear this interesting info from someone who does it every day.

P

Edited May 5, 2011 by Pomeroy41144 (see edit history)

[poci1957]

Pomeroy, lots of good advice here, especially from Matt. He is correct that people get emotional about their old cars and their prices--both buyer and seller. And the pure fact is that car is worth what the buyer will pay and the seller will accept, regardless of what a price guide says or how much the owner has in it, just like a property as Jim Edwards said. I think that, like when you bought your Cadillac, you need to establish with the seller:

(a) that you are sincerely interested in buying the car and giving it a good home, and can and will buy for cash immediately if he accepts your offer.

( that you are a good guy with good intentions and recognize that he is a good guy with good intentions, BUT your research has brought you to think you can pay $xxxx. Your offer is not meant to dispute his price or his honor, it is the figure you have come up and are able to pay. If he would like to refuse your offer and sit on the car for another, say, month and try to do better that is fine, your offer will stand and you would like to own the car, but for your amount. No need ever for either side to be stressed or hostle, even though that happens.

As you said, you do not HAVE to buy this car and if your offer is refused and someone pays more, then they wanted it more than you. And it is very likely your Cadillac experience may be re-lived again as long as you keep a friendly demeanor so the guy can feel able to re-contact you without losing face. Good luck, Todd C

[RU22]

It's pretty simple..... unless it's a one-off and therefore you'll never find another...... go find another car.

Don't even attempt to teach the seller anything .....just move on.

[mike brady]

I suggest you:

1) call him advising your coming over to buy the car;

2) get a truck, trailer and your $6,500 together;

3) get the car outside for inspection;

4) make your offer, load it and leave; OR

5) move on

You should then learn if the car is truly for sale

[Restorer32]

Nothing like the sight of a stack of $100 bills to motivate a seller, especially if his wife is watching.

[trimacar]

I had a friend in New Orleans that had a special way of dealing with people offering cars at a high price (no, Marty, not you, JCS).

Now, bear in mind that this was pre-Internet and pre-price guides.

He'd go see the car, if he liked it, he'd make a fair or slightly low offer. If refused, he'd line up 2 or 3 friends to go see the car, one at a time. The first friend would offer 10% lower than his offer. Next friend, 10% or so below that, and so on. On a few occasions of doing this, the seller would call him, happy to get his offer paid, as the car seemed to be losing value with each looker!!

This is the same guy, I had a nice porcelain sign collection. Told him it wasn't for sale. He said, OK, but IF YOU SOLD IT, what would you ask? I named what I thought was a high price, he said he'd take it, and the price was sufficient that I went ahead and sold.....

More than one way to skin a catfish............

[Rusty_OToole]

2 ways to deal with this problem. Make a polite offer of what the car is worth to you. Be prepared to discuss in a reasonable manner. If the seller does not want to talk, that is fine. Thank him for his time and move on to the next deal.

Second way, if you really want the car. Tell him you think it is too high and you are not willing to pay that price but wish him luck. Keep in contact once a month by phone or post card or visit so he knows you are interested and see what happens.

Third way, if you really really want it pay the price.

[Amphicar BUYER]

Is he a friend? If the answer is NO, then make him a fair offer. Tell him how you came up with that number and ask him how he arrived at his. If he gets upset, walk away but leave your contact info. You shouldn't care if he is insulted by a fair offer. These people are "fishing" If you dangle the bait long enough, somebody will bite. The trick is how long to let it dangle.

Is it a car that you can't find another? If the answer is NO, then go find another. Ever since the $124k Amphi at BJ, everyone thinks their Amphicar has $25k in cash inside the glovebox.

It took me 10 years to get the guy to sell me my Skyliner. I made a reasonable offer and evenually he realized I wasn't there to screw him. One evening he asked me to add $200 to my offer and it would be mine, so now it is!

[Guest ghpcnm]

I'm a newbie, but I will chime in on this discussion. What are the circumstances surrounding the sale? Is the seller a car buff or has he inherited the car and wants to move it for cash flow? What it amounts too is this...Does the seller really want to sell the vehicle or is he content to let it sit in a warehouse and continue to deteriorate? I would offer him $500 more than the price guide suggests to begin the negotiations and work up from there to the maximum price you are willing to pay. Be prepared to walk away. Never fall in love with a car before you own it.

Edited May 5, 2011 by ghpcnm
correction (see edit history)

[West Peterson]

.

I still think the best idea is to decide what you think the car is worth to you, and walk away if he refuses. There's plenty of fish in the sea, and it's very expensive to be restoring a car. It's unusual that you can't buy a restored car for way, way less than the cost of the restoration.

I applaud your "saving the critters," but you can't overpay for the unhealthy "critters' too many times before you run out of money keeping them alive.

[R Walling]

If I wanted to purchace the car, after looking at it and getting all the info needed for a decision, I would say,

" I really like the car, its in just the condition I was hoping for but I only have $xxxx.oo avalible to purchace it. Would you be able to conciter selling it to me if you recieve no other offers?

I would like to leave my phone # and would be able to pick it up right away if it was available in the near future."

[caddyshack]

Totally agree with West. Give it your best shot and if it does not work out, move on. Unless this is a super rare auto, why would it be such a big deal? If you have to have it, get to know the seller and find out what lights his rocket. Find that common ground and work from there. I don't take offense at offers unless I know that they are from known flippers or hot-rodders. Just a personal quirk. Saw my A coupe get chopped and channeled by a guy that wanted a totally stock auto. Never again!

[Big Beat]

Ever seen a sign that says "Price subject to change according to customer's attitude"? Believe it. A positive attitude is key. Too many buyers point out flaws with disgust, like the owner is a vile person for trying to sell them their junk, or they whine with a sense of entitlement, like every scratch is cause for immediate discount, or they act slick, like they're on the make and the seller is just another sucker to cheat out of their stuff so that it can be flipped for a profit. Any of that can make the price go up, or make the seller uncooperative.

So as a buyer you need to position yourself in a way that avoids all that. Be positive, polite, open. Instead of saying in effect "This piece of junk isn't worth your delusional price, but I'll take it if you agree to give it away for peanuts", say something like "Aw, what a nice car, too bad it's in such sad shape. I'd love to restore it back to its former glory, but I can only offer you so much for it, considering the condition". Always works for me.

[Guest Foggy norm]

As Matt implie's. A lot of people think their car is worth some price they "saw" on some TV show. Then also, This is an old family car (worth more) with sentimental value...what's that? you either want to sell it or you don't put it up for sale. It's a money thing. If you have a good friend, ask him to offer a real insulting price, Humm, 2000$. You return with the reasonable offer with documentation of other car's. He's already been insulted, so he may take notice of a realistic offer. Let him think on it.

[supersix]

In cases like this I usually will come up with a realistic figure of what it will cost me to restore it and I would have too much money in the car for the asking price, so I can't give him what he wants. This way I have not usually offended anyone.

[Pomeroy41144]

Big Beat,

I think I did alright in the attitude department.

The one thing I think I was guilty of was knowing "too much" about the model in question. I consciously tried to keep a lid on it as I went along so I did not appear like a know it all. I always wanted this model and my dad owned one when I was a kid, so I knew what I was looking for. The initial visit and the phone call a couple days later went well. I liked the car and I think it was very evident to the seller. I could not help but to point out all of the good things about the car. So there was no real poker face but no real over the top enthusiasm either. But he knew I liked the car. We'll see how it goes a few months from now when I go back and make an offer if it is still there (and I am betting it will be). There are a lot of car shows between then and now. And the intenet.

Thanks to all who replied-- a lot of great advice. Thanks.

Pomeroy41144

[Jay Wolf]

I have been in that situation several times, cars needing total restoration, BUT, the seller watched Barrett-Jackson.

I always start with.

" I am interested in buying your car, BUT, I was wondering where you can up with the value or your asking price?" That opens it up for discussion.

[Guest palosfv3]

Lots of good advise. There are two questions I always ask of the seller when considering their car for purchase.

1st, How did your determine your selling price ? Causes the seller to justify their price and can also cause them to reconsider their pricing postion.

2nd, Are you prepared to wait several months for your price ? Time is the key element in any sale / negotiation. This question should uncover more of the unknowns .

[sambarn]

Hand full of cash, best negotiating tool ever. Put 10% in your pocket if it comes to haggling, you can dump all you've got on the table or smile, leave a number with your 90% price and walk away. If you revealed the make and model you would very likely find another......

[edinmass]

Nothing like the sight of a stack of $100 bills to motivate a seller, especially if his wife is watching.

Lots of good advice. I have a standard pitch when I go see a car. I bring my car trailer and CASH, and try to look at it only when the wife will be there. I find the combination of cash and a trailer will move a price much faster. And I point out tire kickers and price guides mean nothing, a car is only worth what a buyer is willing to pay. He will think very hard before you drive away. If the car is any further than say 50 miles, I let it be known I am very intrested in the car, and I will bring a trailer and cash, but the price must have some room for movement. If they start talking firm, I thank them and pass on the car. Using the above, I purchase more than 75 percent of the cars I look at. It also cuts down the chase on cars that the seller just won't let go, and people who are fishing for a price. Ed

[Steve_Mack_CT]

Two comments on this interesting post;

First, attitude is key - had a guy drive down from out of state once with his trailer and cash to look at a corvette I had for sale. As I started telling him about the car, in the course of conversation I happened to mention why I was selling. He said, "look, don't tell me your problems.." - I let him look at the car and make his offer, of course much lower than asking. Then I told him price was now firm, based on his attitude, and I went in the house. He left, and I of course sold the car later for a fair price. I have no patience for game players and if I smell that, I would rather do business with someone else regardless of price. I was pretty proud of myself as a 22 year old kid standing up to this older guy - my gut told me he was trying to play it off as a tough guy, and take advantage of me. Well, for having an attitude and wasting my time he got to lose at least half a day.

Thank people like the New Orleans guy David described for many sellers being overly cautious. If it was the other way around, and his friends were shills bidding up a car's price at auction that would be illegal. What this guy is doing is wasting the seller's time under false pretenses, and that is a real low life thing to do IMO.

Second, on the positive, project cars remain a buyers market and you may do well to spend a few moments talking to the potential seller about that, and encourage him to do his own research. If he agrees your offer is fair, and you are a "real" buyer, you have a real good chance of landing the car assuming you cannot do it on the first visit with cash.

[Fred Zwicker]

Buying a car from a friend is really tough. I have a friend who buys antiques and one trick that he often uses with smile on his face after some negitiationg - "Can you come up with a friendlier price"? This is a nice way of saying that the price is too high, without hurtring anyone's feelings.

One thing that I sometimes do when buying smaller items at a flea market or antique mall is to inquire about the price from a vendor several times, trying to get to the bottom line if possible. Then just before leaving, stop at seller's booth one more time with car keys in one hand and cash in the other, telling seller that you have to leave, but if he (the seller) will take $XXX you will take it now. This works more often than you might think.

If buying a car and the deal is a really good one, best to furnish a cash deposit on the spot and write up a receipt, bringing the balance as soon as possible. It is surprising how a great deal can turn out to be a no deal once seller's relatives hear about the car being sold, or if a better offer comes along. Often a seller will say, "I don't need a deposit - your word is good" Don't go for this - give a deposit and write up a receipt. Seller can still refund your deposit if a better offer comes along, but most will not do so.

Last week I was at the car corral at Carlisle and there was a nice 1929 Model A Tudor for sale at a fair price. I waited about an hour for the seller and when he arrived (unfortunately) there were several others looking hard at the car and also waiting for the seller. I immediately mentioned that I was interested in the car, but could we discuss it without an audience. So we walked some distance away and made the deal. Imagine how things would have deteriorated had someone else barged in and topped my offer by even $100. Atached are pictures of the Model A which we will be converting into a vintage police car to join our 1931 Chevrolet vintage taxi cab.

See www.tpcarcollection.com for more pictures of our cars in Canfield, Ohio.

Fred

[Trulyvintage]

The discussion is in vain ....

There are cars for sale that will never be sold because the price desired

does not reflect the value of the vehicle in the current market that

the vehicle is being offered for sale in

The Seller chooses the time to sell

Sold cars are priced at a cost reflecting current market conditions

You have one chance to buy a car - at the time you make an offer

At that time you should have the cash in hand & a trailer to haul

the car away or a buddy to drive it away when you leave

Jim

[trimacar]

Steve, I don't agree with the method used by my friend, just commenting on how he did it.

I don't believe an approach like that would ever fly with today's Internet and price guides. With those tools available to everybody, we, as collectors, can only hope that we get fair deals on cars being sold by non-hobbyists.

In my experience, usually a hobbyist has a rational view of the value of a car, and it's better to buy directly from him for a fair deal.

Dealers make their living by buying at a price that allows them to wait, and find a buyer who has both money and the burning desire to have that particular car, even if it's at a price that may be higher than what many would consider "fair".

"Fair price" and "market value" are thus exclusive descriptions, and conditions determine which applies to a transaction.

If the guy really wants to sell, his price will have to adjust to market. IMHO.

[Restorer32]

Sooooooo...the majority opinion here seems to be lie your a** off in hopes you can convinve the seller his car is worth only junk price or you aren't really interested in the car but might buy it just to help the seller out or you only have a minute to negotiate because your wife in on her way to the hospital? Why not be honest? "I am interested in your car but I am only willing to pay X. Will you negotiate the price". When I come up against such smooth talking potential buyers the price goes UP not DOWN.

[Guest bofusmosby]

I agree with Restorer32, honesty is always the best policy. Offer him all that you have, and willing to buy it for, then explain to him that the amount it is going to cost you to restore it will be considerably more than you would be paying for it. Make the guy an offer, and be done with it. It you drive away without the car, then start looking for another, keeping in mind that you may be getting a call from this guy before you committ to a different one. Let him know that you are looking for a car such as this, and will continue to look if he says no. At least this will let him know that if he is at all considering selling it for that price, he must make his decision before you find another.

Of course, also keep in mind that if you should find another out of state, then it will coast you more in the long run by either going to get it, or hiring someone to bring it to you.

[Guest Foggy norm]

What I was implying, was the seller needed a reality check.