Proposed Federal Antique car tax??? HOAX!!!!

[Dandy Dave]

What's up with this??? Man This pisses me off considering Most car's are a loss from what is spend to restore them. This guy is out of touch. We have to stop this BS or stand loose much of the hobbie as a whole. Dandy Dave!

Sent: Monday, April 4, 2011 3:25:04 AM

Subject: ALERT!!!! NEW FEDERAL COLLECTOR CAR TAX PROPOSED BY CHARLES SCHUMER

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To all,

The New York Times reported this on Monday, March 28, 2011 that Senator Chuck Schumer from New York is in the process of drafting a bill that will create a new federal tax on all collector, antique, historic, special interest and racing vehicles, the establishment of a federal data base on all collector cars and a new IRS department to administer the taxes based on all vehicles being reported by law on 1040 Federal Income Tax Forms. Senator Schumer is quoted as starting this new tax at 10% of the vehicle value

I urge you to read the New York Times Story that

can be accessed from the link below and write and call your Senators and Senator Chuck Schumer directly and let them know your position on this new tax and the big brother federal data base he wants to establish. The time to raise your objections is now, before this becomes law. Be sure to forward this to all of your friends, industry colleagues and car clubs.

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http://www.saac.com/files/newsletter/0411/news-04-01-11.pdf

Contact or write Senator Schumer at the following offices:

The Honorable Charles E. Schumer

United States Senate

322 Hart Senate Office Building

Washington, DC 25010-3201

Phone: 202-224-6542

The Honorable Charles E. Schumer

757 Third Avenue

Suite 17-02

New York, New York 10017

Phone: 212-486-4430

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Edited April 4, 2011 by Rawja (see edit history)

[Dandy Dave]

You know what. This should not get Pulled. This is very important to our Hobbie and should be posted for all to see and comment on. We work on these cars, We save these cars, We spend money on these's cars, we spend to store these cars. And most of what we do is not for proft, but for the sole purpose of passing a piece of the past to the future. And to now be charged a yearly amount of 10 percent of the value of an automobile. It is like paying rent on something we already own and have worked hard for. Dandy Dave!

Edited April 4, 2011 by Dandy Dave (see edit history)

[Lozierman]

If you note the date this story was reported, April 1, 2011. Is this a signicant date with us? Yes, its April Fools Day! Guess we were all caught by this one.

Someone is very clever and we are very gullible.

After I was also upset, I did manage a smile.

[Steve Moskowitz]

This is a hoax! The webmaster at www.saac.com decided that this would be a funny April Fool's joke. It has been anything but funny and is causing a lot of people to work hard to control the damage. Very smart idea, upset a powerful Senator and cause harm to the hobby. If you have any complaint today...make it to Mr. Kopec. His sense of humor needs a major adjustment. If we ever get taxed, It will be the Kopec tax as HE is the one who will have caused it. Disgusted!!:(:(

[Dandy Dave]

You are so Right. I'm going to send the gooberment a bill for my "restoration business losses." And they can then pay me for keeping the past for the Future. Dandy Dave!

[Dandy Dave]

This is a hoax! The webmaster at www.saac.com decided that this would be a funny April Fool's joke. It has been anything but funny and is causing a lot of people to work hard to control the damage. Very smart idea, upset a powerful Senator and cause harm to the hobby. If you have any complaint today...make it to Mr. Kopec. His sense of humor needs a major adjustment. If we ever get taxed, It will be the Kopec tax as HE is the one who will have caused it. Disgusted!!:(:(

OK Steve, Due Noted. Really had Me P.O. for a moment. Dandy Dave!

[nzcarnerd]

Obviously anyone should be wary of anything odd that occurs at this time of year. Here in NZ there was an announcement that the Greens political party was going to do a hip-hop tour. In Australia one of the V8 Supercar teams announced that they had developed a prescription windshield for one of their drivers who normally wore glasses. They even had developed reverser goggles so that a codriver could drive the car during the endurance races later in the season. Prewarcar.com announced the production of a book relating all of the fake Bugattis. No doubt there were many more internationally.

[Bhigdog]

Oy Vey! Everyone take a nice deep breath....................Bob

[MochetVelo]

This gag story is appearing in other car Forums as fact. I just had to rebuke it in our Maxwell group. Oh, well. I suggest checking all maddening, shocking and outrageous claims you hear at www.factcheck.org. It's a legit site that lists these hoaxes and explains the facts or non-facts behind them.

Here's the apology from Mr. Kopec:

"The Shelby American Automobile Club’s annual April Fool’s gag reached a much wider audience that anyone could have predicted. Initially a four-page newsletter was emailed to every member. It contained stories about a perpetual motion ’68 Shelby, a ’69 GT350 that supposedly got 40 miles per gallon and a bogus front page recreation of the New York Times, dated March 28th, that had two stories. One was a hoax about purported tax legislation being prepared by Sen. Charles Schumer, which would tax every collector car, antique, hot rod and race car in the country. This was, of course, concocted out of thin air. But it was, on the surface, believable and it hit numerous hot buttons of car owners.

As soon as some SAAC members read this they immediately went into full “Paul Revere mode,” posting the article on a wide variety of Internet car forums. Once on those forums, readers swarmed like angry killer bees, both posting angry comments about the unfairness of the concept and spreading parts and pieces of the original article in emails and postings. It was the classic definition of something “going viral.”

When readers on some forums recognized the whole thing as an April Fool’s joke and posted this, other readers seemed to look right past the warnings. We now know how Orson Wells must have felt after his 1938 “War of the Worlds” radio broadcast resulted in traffic jams as panicked people tried to flee New Jersey.

While we enjoy a good April Fool’s prank as much as anyone, we never envisioned that this one could spread so quickly or so widely beyond the Shelby American Automobile Club. We deeply regret if taking this story seriously has caused anyone any undue distress or embarrassment. To keep more of that from happening we would greatly appreciate it if you could forward this message to as many car enthusiasts as possible. If they forward it to others who can forward it to even more people, maybe this second message will catch up with and overpower the first one.

And finally, please do not contact Senator Schumer’s office. He already has his hands full with real issues of importance.

Best regards,

Rick Kopec

Shelby American Automobile Club"

Phil

Edited April 5, 2011 by MochetVelo (see edit history)

[rocketraider]

I've lost all respect for the Shelby group because of this. Too many people all over the country are having to beat back onerous anti-old car legislation and taxation schemes for this to be remotely funny.

SAAC is having a big meet at VIR next month. Whether they realise it or not, one of Virginia's most old car-unfriendly legislators represents the district VIR is in. And since he races Porsches there, odds are he'll be a spectator at the SAAC meet. Let's hope he doesn't get any ideas from their little prank.

Me, I think Kopec owes the car hobby a retraction and apology, but we'll never see that.

It'll be interesting to see Schumer's response to this. If I were a betting man, I'd say some legal action at the very least. Maybe if the Shelby club has to fork out a wad of cash defending their webmaster/newsletter editor's joke, they will think twice about such in the future.

[MochetVelo]

Senator Schumer has a pretty thick skin, Glenn. I think he'll take this in stride. As for Rick Kopek, check my previous posting for his formal apology.

Phil

[Rawja]

Geez guys it was an April Fool's joke.

The Schumer article was intentionally patently absurd, and sharing the "front page" of the NYT was another article saying that medical researchers did a study and found that polka dancers had very low rates of colon cancer and included a quote from Jesse Jackson complaining that black people weren't included in the study?!?

...not to mention how ridiculous the rest of the PDF was. GT350 gets 40 MPG by taping cardboard to the nose?!?

A Mustang convertible perpetual motion machine?!?

The reaction to this prank says much more about those who freaked out than anything else. There's no way you could've been duped if you if you just bothered to read what was right there begging to be read. This is a teachable moment, no?

[Dandy Dave]

I received this in an email this morning...

Here's some clarification on this:

April Fools everyone! Please see this email from SEMA:

SEMA Action Network Members:

Some of you may have received notice of an alleged New York Times article indicating that legislation was being drafted in the U.S. Congress to create a federal tax on collector cars. Hopefully, most of you know by now that the article was an April Fools Day prank. The author has indicated his regrets for any confusion or embarrassment to automobile collectors and enthusiasts caused by the prank. Below, we have included the full text of his letter revealing the hoax.

Please contact me if I can be of additional assistance.

Steve McDonald

Vice President, Government Affairs

Specialty Equipment Market Association

SENATOR SCHUMER “TAXING CLASSIC CARS” NEW YORK TIMES ARTICLE REVEALED AS ONLY AN APRIL FOOL’S PRANK

The Shelby American Automobile Club’s annual April Fool’s gag reached a much wider audience that anyone could have predicted. Initially a four-page newsletter was emailed to every member. It contained stories about a perpetual motion ’68 Shelby, a ’69 GT350 that supposedly got 40 miles per gallon and a bogus front page recreation of the New York Times, dated March 28th, that had two stories. One was a hoax about purported tax legislation being prepared by Sen. Charles Schumer, which would tax every collector car, antique, hot rod and race car in the country. This was, of course, concocted out of thin air. But it was, on the surface, believable and it hit numerous hot buttons of car owners.

As soon as some SAAC members read this they immediately went into full “Paul Revere mode,” posting the article on a wide variety of Internet car forums. Once on those forums, readers swarmed like angry killer bees, both posting angry comments about the unfairness of the concept and spreading parts and pieces of the original article in emails and postings. It was the classic definition of something “going viral.”

When readers on some forums recognized the whole thing as an April Fool’s joke and posted this, other readers seemed to look right past the warnings. We now know how Orson Wells must have felt after his 1938 “War of the Worlds” radio broadcast resulted in traffic jams as panicked people tried to flee New Jersey.

While we enjoy a good April Fool’s prank as much as anyone, we never envisioned that this one could spread so quickly or so widely beyond the Shelby American Automobile Club. We deeply regret if taking this story seriously has caused anyone any undue distress or embarrassment. To keep more of that from happening we would greatly appreciate it if you could forward this message to as many car enthusiasts as possible. If they forward it to others who can forward it to even more people, maybe this second message will catch up with and overpower the first one.

And finally, please do not contact Senator Schumer’s office. He already has his hands full with real issues of importance.

Best regards,

Rick Kopec

Shelby American Automobile Club

[rocketraider]

Rawja, with the old car-unfriendly climate in government now, I guess we're all running scared. Living in a state House district represented by a delegate who cannot leave the old car statutes alone (and always to detriment of the hobby) I'll admit I'm a little skittish when I see stuff like this.

I just hope the SAAC's little prank hasn't given tax-hungry pols any ideas. Believe me, I already pay way more in taxes than I receive in services and benefits.

[jeff_a]

I guess we "got took", as some of my grade school friends used to say. I guess some of the Shelby Club guys didn't have anything better to do on April 1st. The online investment magazine Worth printed a story on April Fools Day, 2006 saying that there were only about 35 Peerlesses in existence. Does that mean there are more?

I have to admit to creating a few April 1 jokes myself: one involving advertising a class that you couldn't take unless you had been to other planets(5 signed up) and another one on Dryland Pineapple Plantations in Kansas(3 enrolled).

I have to take exception to Mr. Kopec's letter in which he likens his prank to the 1938 War of the Worlds broadcast where people "tried to flee New Jersey". You can leave New Jersey anytime. You just take the Burlington-Bristol Bridge!

Edited April 5, 2011 by jeff_a (see edit history)

[Guest AlK]

I jumped the gun. The article I got stated mr Schummer as saying all antique car owners are wealthy so let's put a tax on each of their cars. I immediatly sent the man an e-mail where-in I called him everything but human. Fortunatly the e-mail ran afoul of some web based black hole and never made it to him. With reference to Orson Welles little escapade, I do not know this for a literal fact but I heard that some people jumped off tall buildings so they would be captured by martians. I hoped that did not happen here. However I think a word of caution here is advised, just because this rather wild bit of absurdity was a hoax, let's not ignore the ones in the future, because just about the time we chuck one into the circular file, that's the one that is real and it just got passed and they are coming to confiscate ALL of our old cars

[Steve Moskowitz]

I wasn't going to respond further but I'min the hotel for the Charlotte Meet and thought I would add a few more cents (sense) to this discussion instead of seeking the bar!

It was a big deal. Why? The column made its way under the guise of fact and was forwarded arond the country by some very prominent old car hobbyists who never expected someone would play a joke on them about such a serious subject. My email system was almost overrun with upset AACA members, a drag racer who everyone knows sent me several. Car club Presidents called and emailed. This took up almost two days of my time trying to calm the fires. SEMA officials were also spending time on this as well as a lot of other people. A guy who has spent his whole life fighting for this hobby basically had his email server crash due to the volume! Not funny...we all could be doing other more productive things.

If everyone took the time to read the article closely they would have eventually caught the joke. However, most people saw it came from a reputable source and emotionally reacted to it. Human nature because people care about this hobby. We are in an age that requires due diligence to make sure we do not get legislated out of existence!

I like a good practical joke as much as anyone. Mr. Kopec got a ton of people but I ask you what was funny about it? He may have proved people can be duped but to what end? This was a harmful prank that could have caused the hobby much damage. Fortunately, it appears that the Senator's office staff understands that most of us found this stunt to be distasteful.

I'd like to make a standing invitation to anyone to spend a day in my office and see first hand the volume of contacts we get from the hobby. Spend some time with SEMA's staff or visit with a major club president. Everyone is fighting to do good in this hobby and then along comes this. It is over now, hopefully and maybe Mr. Kopec will find a way to have his April Fool's joke in a way that does not harm anyone and is truly funny.

[Dandy Dave]

It is unfortunate, but it seems that the seed from this prank is now being played apon by Senator Schumer’s office personel. A phone call to the office from a close friend, and organizer of an auto club local to me, and also a regular on this site, made a call to the office and his staff said, yes. The Senator is proposing a collector car tax. Yes, this prank is very much out of hand now that the seed has been planted. This is what I received in a following email from yesterday.

Well, Here's what I learned regarding this e mail yesterday.

According to the retraction I sent yesterday AND according to the e mail below, allegedly from SEMA, the NY Times news article pinning a new Federal Tax on Collector cars was deemed to be a hoax. Additionally I discovered that there is a Senate Resolution from the 112th Congress, proclaiming July 8th Collector car appreciation day: Bill Text - 112th Congress (2011-2012) - THOMAS (Library of Congress)

However, yesterday and today I called Senator Schumer's office in Albany and was told that in fact, Senator Schumer is proposing a 10% annual tax on collector cars.

While I could get no further details from the Senators office I questioned the accuracy of their statement three times and was re-assured that indeed the Senator is making this proposal. So, looks like it is time to pester "Chuck" about this proposal before it moves much further ahead.

[trimacar]

One good April Fools was on the PreWarCar website, they were discussing the publication of a book revealing all the Bugatti fakes, an extensive study of each serial numbered car and whether it was real or fake.

They apparently had many panic emails about the publication of this book....funny....

As far as the tax goes, even if it was a joke, as someone mentioned, now the seed's been planted.

[joe_padavano]

Perhaps the lesson learned here is not to forward something without fact checking first.

[ted sweet]

i think you just got an office worker who thought asking that question was so out there that u didnt get a ssrious answer. SEMA says there is no such proposal.

[DAVE A]

I don't think a day goes by with receiving an e-mail like this. Sometimes they are forwarded to inform me of what the sender thinks is a serious problem, sometimes, it's a joke, sometimes, it is just to see if I will react. In all cases, before I do anything, I check the facts as Joe has suggested. There are a number of "fact checker" web sites out there such as "factcheck.org ,factcheck.com, Snopes, etc. Unless I can get a verification from at least 2 of the sites, I don't forward it. If it is a new event, it will be out there on one of the major news web sites such as MSN, or Fox news. If I can get a negative on the e-mail from any of the sites, I usually send it back to the sender. People want to communicate, it is natural. Sometimes in their enthusiasm to be the first to report to their peers, they forward something without checking it out thoroughly. There are no villans here, just an occasionally, badly fooled, well intentioned person.

[Rawja]

Dudes, there is no tax proposed. There is no "seed planted". Let it go.

[Sweepspear]

A hoax.

I suspected as much.

[Jim Bollman]

Well at least Chuck knows he will get a lot of negative responses if he ever decides to back something like this. So he may not use any of those seeds.

[Dave@Moon]

Perhaps the lesson learned here is not to forward something without fact checking first.

This bears repeating! This is hardly the first time such efforts/energy have been wasted here and elsewhere on a red herring.

[JohnD1956]

I personally called Senator Schumer's Albany NY office two days in a row this week. I was told 4 times in total that the Senator is proposing an annual 10% Federal Tax on collector cars. I asked for further information on what was being proposed but was simply told the above by two different people who answered the phone. I have e mail the Senator for further information but have recieved none as of this writing.

While I recogonize that the original alleged NY Times article is a hoax, it does appear that there is something afoot. Here is the number I called for Senators Albany NY office: 518-431-4070 If anyone would do me a favor and call them yourself, to see what answer you get on the Senator proposing a Collector Car Tax, I would greatly appreciate it. But since I asked them 4 times if they were sure and serious, I am inclined to believe the information the Senator's office told me is accurate.

That is not to say anything like this would pass as a resolution and become law right away. First the proposal, then the committee review and recommendation, then the vote in the Senate then on to the House of Representatives. Final stop? You know where. But ask yourself this. If something is happening, what do you think will happen to value of the Collector cars you own?

[LINC400]

This is not the first April Fools joke in bad taste. It won't be the last. In fact the worst thing about it was using a real senator's name. Seems he is taking it rather well. He could sue the Shelby club, but apparently isn't.

So the question is, after it has been stated several times that this was an April fools joke, and the Shelby Club has claimed credit and apologized for it, do people continue to call and email this senator's office and harrass his personnel? I am sure they have better things to do than deal with people that don't want to admit that they have been had because they fail to read the whole story or check facts before going off half cocked on a tirade.

[Rawja]

Okay, let's indulge in the fantasy.

First, there has never been a federal tax on personal property. There is no mechanism for reporting, valuation, or enforcement.

Second, if one were to clear some crazy-large amount when selling a car, you're already supposed to be paying taxes on it.

Define "collector car".

How's value gonna be determined? Are IRS agents gonna also become antique car appraisers as well, visiting every garage to determine condition each year???

The value of whatever is determined to be a collector car would immediately plummet, I mean it's an expensive enough hobby already, you mean I have to in essence re-buy the car every decade??? Efff this, lemme get something not on "The Federal Bureau of Collectible Vehicles" list.

The idea is, bluntly put: stoopid. While I know many of you are of the worldview that believes the very idiocy of the notion gives it credibility as a guvment program, in reality no one is this stupid, "liberal NY Senator" or not.

By all means, keep harassing my Senator's office staff though. I'm sure they're having a good laugh. "Hey, we got another rube screaming about the collector car tax!"

You might as well worry about an federal ejaculation tax, it's about just about as workable and certainly more fair. Just make sure you save all of your receipts.

Edited April 7, 2011 by Rawja (see edit history)

[Matt Harwood]

I personally called Senator Schumer's Albany NY office two days in a row this week. I was told 4 times in total that the Senator is proposing an annual 10% Federal Tax on collector cars. I asked for further information on what was being proposed but was simply told the above by two different people who answered the phone. I have e mail the Senator for further information but have recieved none as of this writing.

Sounds like they're going along with the joke. They've probably been flooded with calls from panicking hobbyists, many of them likely filled with hatred and profanity (not to imply that's what you did, John, but surely there were some irate calls). The people answering the phone are probably college interns and they're having some fun because they're exasperated having to constantly explain that it's a hoax. After hundreds of phone calls, I'd probably be a little fed up with these collector car kooks, too.

There's just no way someone would propose a tax like this, and Schumer has already formally announced that it's a hoax. Whatever his office told you, this is not something that's being considered, was ever considered, nor will ever be considered. There's just no way to enforce such a thing, and it would be political suicide to impose any kind of tax on such a small group. It's like saying, "If you own a swimming pool, we're going to tax you $1 per year for every gallon of water it holds." Even people who don't have swimming pools can see the slippery slope that creates.

I'm just sad that our whole society is so polarized and suspicious of the "other side" that something like this could even gain traction. I'm sure that's what the writer thought when he wrote it: "This is so nutty, nobody could possibly believe it." Yet here we are...

[Steve_Mack_CT]

Well, the proposal at the state level in CT is no joke, and exactly the logic behind some local representatives. Luckily we think there will be a reasonably happy ending by way of a compromise, but there is every reason to believe many politicians see "revenue stream" where we see history. See my posts along with Stock Steve in Legislative forum if interested in the details.

BTW - the compromise was worked out through polite but organized dialogue with the rep who wrote the bill, largely with a contingent of hobbyists in his district. They still react to one on one taxpayer interaction, and I am guessing the numbers this group represented in terms of members who also vote must have been part of the reason he agreed to talk.

[MochetVelo]

The New York Times reported the story today. Here's the link:

A Fake Tax Rattles Classic Car Buffs - NYTimes.com

Phil

[JohnD1956]

Okay, let's indulge in the fantasy.

First, there has never been a federal tax on personal property. There is no mechanism for reporting, valuation, or enforcement.

Second, if one were to clear some crazy-large amount when selling a car, you're already supposed to be paying taxes on it.

Define "collector car".

How's value gonna be determined? Are IRS agents gonna also become antique car appraisers as well, visiting every garage to determine condition each year???

The value of whatever is determined to be a collector car would immediately plummet, I mean it's an expensive enough hobby already, you mean I have to in essence re-buy the car every decade??? Efff this, lemme get something not on "The Federal Bureau of Collectible Vehicles" list.

The idea is, bluntly put: stoopid. While I know many of you are of the worldview that believes the very idiocy of the notion gives it credibility as a guvment program, in reality no one is this stupid, "liberal NY Senator" or not.

By all means, keep harassing my Senator's office staff though. I'm sure they're having a good laugh. "Hey, we got another rube screaming about the collector car tax!"

You might as well worry about an federal ejaculation tax, it's about just about as workable and certainly more fair. Just make sure you save all of your receipts.

You all can bet your bottom dollar that I will continue to contact this Senators office till I hear that he is not making this or a similar proposal. After all, he's my Senator too. And I think it is highly unlikely that people in his office would continue to "go along with the joke" considering the damaging effects it would have on someone counting on the publics vote. And if they are I have another suggestion for the Senator that would result in cutting costs....

[Matt Harwood]

You all can bet your bottom dollar that I will continue to contact this Senators office till I hear that he is not making this or a similar proposal. After all, he's my Senator too. And I think it is highly unlikely that people in his office would continue to "go along with the joke" considering the damaging effects it would have on someone counting on the publics vote. And if they are I have another suggestion for the Senator that would result in cutting costs....

From the REAL New York Times article on the fallout of the hoax:

No one seems more amused than Mr. Schumer, whose first (and most beloved) car was a 1971 Plymouth Duster, and who, for the record, is not proposing a classic-car tax.

“Senator Schumer firmly believes in every American’s right to have tax-free fun, fun, fun, until their daddy takes the T-Bird away,” said Mike Morey, a spokesman for the senator.

[Rawja]

I will continue to contact this Senators office..

::Facepalm::

“Senator Schumer firmly believes in every American’s right to have tax-free fun, fun, fun, until their daddy takes the T-Bird away,” said Mike Morey, a spokesman for the senator.

That is a fantastic quote.

Edited April 8, 2011 by Rawja (see edit history)

[Dandy Dave]

I was going to post that same Real NY Times article, But I see you beat me to it. Yep, looks like the Senators staff played right along with it. Wwwwhhhheeeewwwwwww! Dandy Dave!

[JohnD1956]

Just a few moments ago I contacted Senator Schumer's Washington and NYC offices. Both offices indicate there is no legislative proposal regading Collector Cars being considered by this Senator, just like the article says. I still cannot explain why his staff in the Albany Office told me he was but, I am letting this go. I apologize if I upset anyone with all this.

Have a great day.

John

[rocketraider]

No apology needed John.

The Shelby American Automobile Club OTOH owes EVERYONE an apology. That little soundbite they sent to SEMA was a start, but I really don't think they've grasped how big an effect their prank had on the car hobby.

[MarkV]

"Senator Schumer firmly believes in every American’s right to have tax-free fun, fun, fun, until their daddy takes the T-Bird away"

daddy=Federal Government

Sounds like something they will do eventually, maybe not in our lifetimes...

Oh, by the way, your tax dollars and mine were used on this, while there is a budget stalemate in D.C. Schumer should be ashamed to be a part of this...

Edited April 9, 2011 by 1948Lincoln (see edit history)

[Rawja]

"Senator Schumer firmly believes in every American’s right to have tax-free fun, fun, fun, until their daddy takes the T-Bird away"

daddy=Federal Government

Sounds like something they will do eventually, maybe not in our lifetimes...

Couldn't just be a fun quote??? Has to be a veiled threat?

Oh, by the way, your tax dollars and mine were used on this, while there is a budget stalemate in D.C. Schumer should be ashamed to be a part of this...

HUH??