V16 Posted February 19 Share Posted February 19 Was going thru some of my old files of Duesenberg materials and came across this photo of J-346 which I did not realize I had because I did not know the car still existed till this summer when it surfaced after decades of hidden storage. Had the pleasure of meeting and talking to the new owner who was very gracious about sharing his car and it's history. Now I see it is going to auction at Amelia and thought this photo both interesting and timely. The photo was taken in Cincinnatti in the 50's and the owner is listed as William A. Burns Jr. Looks to have 30 Cad 16 headlights and wears a license plate XP 22. What do you suppose the last unrestored J Murphy Disappearing top roadster will realize at this sale? 13 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Goist Posted February 19 Share Posted February 19 I think when assessing value it is important to note that although this car is unrestored, it is NOT original. The way J-346 presents today is the result of a 1950s refurbishment. Some may have called what was done to it in the 1950s a "cosmetic restoration". A stretch given todays standard of restoration. Personally, I do not find this car to be a preservation candidate. I do however feel it is a rich opportunity for someone to embark on an AUTHENTIC restoration that stands out against the over-restored mentality we have grown accustomed to. It will be interesting to see what it sells for. Although they are not accurate, I find it to be a shame that the current short-term owner thought it was appropriate to take a saw to the fenders that had been on this car for so long, trying to emulate the original Duesenberg style. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ericmac Posted February 19 Share Posted February 19 I too will be interested to see the selling price of this car. While it seems like a shame to have another "me too" restoration as this car is truly unique as it is. I guess that's up to whomever has the deepest pockets. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TAKerry Posted February 19 Share Posted February 19 The number designation means nothing to me. Is this the same car that was in DPC at the most recent Hershey? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted February 19 Share Posted February 19 (edited) Nice picture Allen! Edited February 19 by alsancle (see edit history) 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
West Peterson Posted February 19 Share Posted February 19 13 hours ago, V16 said: Was going thru some of my old files of Duesenberg materials and came across this photo of J-346 which I did not realize I had because I did not know the car still existed till this summer when it surfaced after decades of hidden storage. Had the pleasure of meeting and talking to the new owner who was very gracious about sharing his car and it's history. Now I see it is going to auction at Amelia and thought this photo both interesting and timely. The photo was taken in Cincinnatti in the 50's and the owner is listed as William A. Burns Jr. Looks to have 30 Cad 16 headlights and wears a license plate XP 22. What do you suppose the last unrestored J Murphy Disappearing top roadster will realize at this sale? The same photo is one that appeared in our July/August issue of Antique Automobile, with the full story on the car. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curti Posted February 19 Share Posted February 19 You may want to post this on the ACD website. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Don Posted February 19 Share Posted February 19 So? as it appears today, has the lower edge of the front fender been made "more graceful"? (looks a little "ham-handed") 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunsmoke Posted February 19 Share Posted February 19 How does it look now? I think this is as advertised, hard to tell from one photo how well front fenders have been cleaned up. Relatively speaking, looks much better, and not a big job to finish considering what one might pay for the car at auction. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
West Peterson Posted February 19 Share Posted February 19 So far, the fenders have just been cut back to the original metal. The beed around the edge has not yet been added. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
60FlatTop Posted February 19 Share Posted February 19 Never let the background overpower the condition of the subject matter. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hemi Joel Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 Interesting picture. Those skirted fenders really hurt the looks of the car in my opinion. I'm going to take a guess that it will hammer at 3.5 million. 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fargoguy Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 4 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curti Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 Rust on the front fender ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
West Peterson Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 35 minutes ago, Hemi Joel said: Interesting picture. Those skirted fenders really hurt the looks of the car in my opinion. I'm going to take a guess that it will hammer at 3.5 million. Since there are no skeletons in the closet of this one, I'm going to agree with you. No body, engine or chassis swap. A complete "numbers matching" car. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Don Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 Thanks for posting! -I guess I'm just not expecting to see a Duesenberg in need of some TLC! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wayne sheldon Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 So many Duesenbergs in the 1950s into the 1970s were swapped around, new more desirable bodies built, original sedans or formal limousine bodies trashed. Many of the real cars even are on their third or fourth restoration now! Not many good old hidden Classics left mostly un-messed with to be seen in the Duesenberg line. The front fenders on this car seem to be a bit of a downer. To me? It would look so much better with the fenders properly returned to their original configuration (to me they look so much better that way!). On the other hand, I feel that the fenders should have been left for the future caretaker to make that final decision about. A long time ago, Jack Passey showed me the factory updated fenders on one of his Duesenbergs. He showed me how they were done, and we discussed the merits of keeping the era factory update intact or returning them to their original earlier style. That quite frankly is not a simple easy decision. Original configuration versus a real part of the car's history. I know which way I prefer the car? But who says I am right? Regardless, seeing this car now is a real treat! 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
60FlatTop Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 6 hours ago, wayne sheldon said: That quite frankly is not a simple easy decision. Sort of like putting actresses noses back to original I'm thinking. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_Mereness Posted March 1 Share Posted March 1 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted March 1 Share Posted March 1 (edited) Certainly a very cool car. Although it is not a preservation car, it does need a tremendous amount of work. I don’t know who the new owner is, but I congratulate him, and I hope to see the car when it is completely restored. Edited March 1 by alsancle (see edit history) 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hemi Joel Posted March 1 Share Posted March 1 Well bought, in my opinion. The new owner has the opportunity to restore it to his own taste. After restoration, well under 3.5 all in for a freshly done, all numbers matching, DTMCC with an honest and interesting provenance is a very good deal. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted March 1 Share Posted March 1 That car is 1.5 million to restore these days. But I agree that all in the owner is probably in OK shape given the $4 million retail price for the same car perfectly restored. Of course, poor color selection, the wrong restorer, or other factors could screw up this equation. 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ericmac Posted March 1 Share Posted March 1 Something tells me that the car is already on the list for the right restorer. I can't wait to see the final product, though had I been the buyer I would leave it alone and just drive the wheels off it. 5 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hemi Joel Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 1 hour ago, alsancle said: That car is 1.5 million to restore these days. But I agree that all in the owner is probably in OK shape given the $4 million retail price for the same car perfectly restored. Of course, poor color selection, the wrong restorer, or other factors could screw up this equation. I was at the shop of a restorer who would definitely be capable of doing that car to a very high standard about 2 years ago. He mentioned being able to do a duesenberg for 500ish. He did mention that some of the other shops were double his price. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Harley Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 If it was my car. As it sits I'd make sure it was safe to drive...and..then drive the hell out of it! Capt. Harley😉 "Skirts are for Women not Car Fenders" 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexdragone1 Posted March 5 Share Posted March 5 This is a great car. The paint is irrelevant. It’s a fantastic original thing because it retains all of its original parts and has a good history. Skirted fenders needed to go. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted March 5 Share Posted March 5 On 3/1/2024 at 7:10 PM, Hemi Joel said: I was at the shop of a restorer who would definitely be capable of doing that car to a very high standard about 2 years ago. He mentioned being able to do a duesenberg for 500ish. He did mention that some of the other shops were double his price. I don't want to seem disrespectful, but has he ever fully restored a Model J before? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve_Mack_CT Posted March 5 Share Posted March 5 (edited) The maroon J without sidemounts and the cool wheel/BW tires looked pretty nice imho. A better deal? Edited March 6 by Steve_Mack_CT (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrspeedyt Posted March 6 Share Posted March 6 I'd drive it 'as is' but I don't know if I can afford the gas... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted March 6 Share Posted March 6 52 minutes ago, mrspeedyt said: I'd drive it 'as is' but I don't know if I can afford the gas... I don't think you would get too far. The car needs 200k in mechanical sorting, minimum, to be "roadworthy". 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hemi Joel Posted March 6 Share Posted March 6 8 hours ago, alsancle said: I don't want to seem disrespectful, but has he ever fully restored a Model J before? I'm pretty sure he has, if I remember right. I'd have to verify. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
West Peterson Posted March 6 Share Posted March 6 13 hours ago, alsancle said: I don't think you would get too far. The car needs 200k in mechanical sorting, minimum, to be "roadworthy". It's already been done. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted March 6 Share Posted March 6 (edited) 2 hours ago, West Peterson said: It's already been done. Is there a video of that car going to 80 miles an hour down the highway? if so, I retract my comment. However, it still needs $1 million in cosmetic work. Edited March 6 by alsancle (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Bruce aka First Born Posted March 6 Share Posted March 6 3 hours ago, alsancle said: Is there a video of that car going to 80 miles an hour down the highway? if so, I retract my comment. However, it still needs $1 million in cosmetic work. Cosmetics to go down the road? Bet my 1950 Buick will run down the road for a LOT less, and stay with the Duesenberg all day. 'Course, I expect you might turn up your nose at a lowly BUICK!😁 Ben 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Harwood Posted March 6 Share Posted March 6 2 hours ago, Ben Bruce aka First Born said: Cosmetics to go down the road? Bet my 1950 Buick will run down the road for a LOT less, and stay with the Duesenberg all day. 'Course, I expect you might turn up your nose at a lowly BUICK!😁 Ben And my 2021 Buick will do everything better than your 1950 Buick. What's your point? As much as I like Buicks, I know a Buick ain't a Duesenberg. 5 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Luddy Posted March 7 Share Posted March 7 Lovely car. Too far off of my radar and budget to opine upon. Still love it! The last time I was up close to a Duesy was back in 1990 at The Imperial in Vegas. Made reservations to spend time and sip a few in The Duesenburg Room. I've never forgot it. All them sitting side by side with Cord's and Auburn's. The caretaker guy was very nice when I chatted with him. He seemed to enjoy that I knew a bit about them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Bruce aka First Born Posted March 7 Share Posted March 7 1 hour ago, Matt Harwood said: And my 2021 Buick will do everything better than your 1950 Buick. What's your point? As much as I like Buicks, I know a Buick ain't a Duesenberg. LOL! As do I, Matt. My point? Probably not recognizable by most. He had made a comment about how much the car needed. Before going down the road. Just saying, shucks, my Buick goes down the road without needing buckets of money for cosmetics. I get a kick , sometimes, out of the way we working men and wealthier folks think. All relative I suppose. Ben 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Restorer32 Posted March 7 Share Posted March 7 18 hours ago, alsancle said: Is there a video of that car going to 80 miles an hour down the highway? if so, I retract my comment. However, it still needs $1 million in cosmetic work. Please explain why it would cost $1 million to cosmetically restore this car. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TAKerry Posted March 7 Share Posted March 7 2 minutes ago, Restorer32 said: Please explain why it would cost $1 million to cosmetically restore this car. Because its a Duesenberg! If it was a Packard it would be $500k If it was a hemi something moparmajig, it would be $100k If it was a mustang $50,000. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee H Posted March 7 Share Posted March 7 Don’t forget Ferrari! $2MM. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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