Autonomous vehicles

[nat]

     Four autonomous vehicles simultaneously stop at a cross road.  Each vehicle is faced with a stop sign.  Now what?

[oldcarfudd]

Wasn't there a law in Texas, a hundred-and-some years ago, that when a car and a train meet at a grade crossing, each shall wait until the other has passed?

[Pfeil]

19 minutes ago, nat said:

     Four autonomous vehicles simultaneously stop at a cross road.  Each vehicle is faced with a stop sign.  Now what?

If all four drivers arrive at the intersection at the same time, the drivers who plan on going straight are allowed to proceed through the intersection first. If all four drivers are turning right at the intersection, they may proceed simultaneously.

[rocketraider]

I don't know, but I'd like to have a popcorn stand at that corner.

[1937hd45]

Would the four carjackers really care? 

[wayne sheldon]

I don't know how it would be any different than four typical people pulling up that way? I don't know about where you all live? But around here there aren't more than a very few people that understand the progression of right of way! The other day I was the last of four vehicles to pull up and stop. I certainly did NOT have the first right of way. So I made a quick right turn (clear and safe) followed by a left turn into a parking lot and as I continued around the other three were still trying to figure out what to do!

[Reynard]

5 hours ago, nat said:

     Four autonomous vehicles simultaneously stop at a cross road.  Each vehicle is faced with a stop sign.  Now what?

By the time in the future four autonomous vehicles simultaneously come to an intersection, the intersection will have been changed to a round-about (traffic circle). No worries - unless they continue to drive around and around until their batteries quit!

[TAKerry]

They will start their flying mode to get out of the situation then the problem will become which one has the right to take off first.

[31nash880]

Might be better then the neighborhood I just moved from. Had 4 way stops but people just ran through. Saw at least 4 accidents in a year.

[Brass is Best]

The batteries will go dead while they are thinking...

 

[TAKerry]

11 minutes ago, 31nash880 said:

Might be better then the neighborhood I just moved from. Had 4 way stops but people just ran through. Saw at least 4 accidents in a year.

We had a few intersections with traffic lights like that. Replaced all of them with traffic circles. First one they did in the county there was an uproar. We now have 6 or 7 of them and traffic flows just fine.

[EmTee]

There's an intersection about 7 miles from my home that was converted to a circle about two years ago.  They're still replacing the sign in the center of the circle about every 3 or 4 months...

[1937hd45]

1 hour ago, EmTee said:

There's an intersection about 7 miles from my home that was converted to a circle about two years ago.  They're still replacing the sign in the center of the circle about every 3 or 4 months...

How many homes or building lots were lost with the conversion? 

[Str8-8-Dave]

if the autonomous vehicle guidance systems are all designed to the same standard algorithm it would be very unlikely that all 4 vehicles would arrive at precisely the same time, down to hundreths or even thousandths of a second.  First car there would be first to go and rest would then be governed by next car to the right order or next to arrive order.  That's if this stuff all works right which so far has not been the case.

[60FlatTop]

 

In 1896 Alfred Sennett warned, “We should not overlook the fact that the driving of a horseless carriage calls for a larger amount of attention for he has not the advantage of the intelligence of the horse in shaping his path, and it is consequently incumbent upon him to be ever watchful of the course his vehicle is taking.”

 

Without the added intelligence of a horse, without the added intelligence of a human.

 

Some feared the speeds and multiple functions required to operate a horseless carriage were beyond the capability of the human senses. And humans have fought for over a century to prove the skeptics right.

[dodge28]

I saw on CNN news a sitting President of the US was charged for driving his horse drawn carriage too fast (speeding).

[nat]

Ulysses S. Grant, then serving as 18th president of the United States, was arrested in 1872 for speeding in his horse-drawn carriage in Washington, D.C. Arresting officer William H. West later said that he had warned Grant—an avid horseman—for speeding on the same street the day before.

[EmTee]

5 hours ago, 1937hd45 said:

How many homes or building lots were lost with the conversion? 

None in this instance.  It replaced a 3-way intersection with a traffic light.  It does seem to improve flow, however, to stay within the basic confines of the original intersection means it is a very tight circle.  Large trucks must love it...  OTOH, there's another one in the other direction that replaced a traditional 4-way intersection.  That one is much larger and better designed, although it does take-up more space.  Again, there was nothing that had to be demolished to make room.  My take is this is being done to save money, since there are no traffic lights to maintain and periodically upgrade.

[1937hd45]

Our "Traffic Circle" that was built in the late 195's, was replaces with a Y intersection with lights, death rate is now lower. 

[nat]

     Roundabouts improve traffic flow, save gobs of fuel and reduce accidents.  I'm all for them in new road construction.  I am/would be against them if they are built to accommodate non human thinking and/or destroy the character of a community.

     We used to have a four way which I called "the intersection of death".  That flashing yellow was our only traffic light.  I don't think there has been a fatal accident since the roundabout was created.  We are now a traffic light free town.  Who needs one when all points lead nowhere?

    

[Bryan G]

In an ideal situation, the 4 cars would communicate with each other to figure it out. As it is? Some folks are under the impression that the computer sees and understands as a human mind would, or at least maybe as well as a horse or a maybe a particularly dimwitted toad frog. Of course, the car can only look at a few inputs and follow the commands humans typed in the computer. If the programmer didn't tell the car what to do, time for an entertaining YouTube video!

 

I despised the traffic circle state highway foisted on our town 25 years ago. I daydreamed, in the way I do sometimes, of being a multi-billionaire who would show up some night after midnight with a Caterpillar D11 dozer and totally eliminating the monstrosity. Well, time changes things, and I actually like it. There are still some accidents there, but much less than when it was a blinking light, and less severe. I'd much rather have a circle than a light. Would I like to be in a roundabout with an autonomous car? Well...

[Leif in Calif]

I was behind an autonomous vehicle in San Francisco last year.  It was a 2 lane street and a delivery truck was blocking our lane. Every time the  autonomous car tried to go around, it saw another car coming the other way and pulled back. I couldn't assert itself. We did a U and took another street. 

[TAKerry]

23 hours ago, EmTee said:

There's an intersection about 7 miles from my home that was converted to a circle about two years ago.  They're still replacing the sign in the center of the circle about every 3 or 4 months...

One a couple of miles from my house. There is about a mile and half slight downhill approach on one side. At about half mile there is a bright yellow flashing signs that activates if the vehicle is doing over 35 mph (needless to say the sign stays flashing!). About once a month there are tracks through the middle and the flora is destroyed. Usually looks like a big rig. 

[EmTee]

I suspect part of the reason that circles are 'safer' is the accidents that occur happen at lower speed (15 ~ 25 mph) since all cars entering need to reduce their speed.  I'm neither for nor against circles; there are some situations where they can be a definite improvement.

[TAKerry]

They have been a big improvement in every place they have been installed in my area.

[nat]

     How many of you/us still put your blinker on at the roundabout?

 

[TAKerry]

1 hour ago, nat said:

     How many of you/us still put your blinker on at the roundabout?

 

I have😜

[60FlatTop]

Artificial Intelligence could be programmed with the "Nice person syndrome".

 

"You go first."

"No, you go first."

You, go ahead."

"Oh, no, you."

[mrspeedyt]

In Arizona i have to contend with three traffic circles when I drive through wickenburg on my way to Phoenix from Kingman. personally, I think they are too small in diameter and if they were larger in diameter, traffic would flow more smoothly.

[rocketraider]

Engineered correctly they work.

 

I've seen very few here that any real planning and thought went into, other than "WE NEED A ROUNDABOUT!!!!!"

 

One little village here talked the state DOT into changing their lone 4-way intersection's traffic light to a traffic light-controlled 4-way stop. I said when it was installed it was the stupidest thing I'd ever seen (hurt some feelings too, they were proud of it), but in its defense it absolves drivers or autonomous vehicles of having to figure out who goes first. 

[vermontboy]

If they are too large in diameter (think Boston) entry and exit at speed can be a bit daunting if you are trying to read the exit signs to tell where to get off - going around again and trying to get your bearings is the best solution.

[nat]

 

 

Posted 5 hours ago

If they are too large in diameter (think Boston) entry and exit at speed can be a bit daunting

 

     If you are coming to Boston from Maine, Vermont or somewhere else where it's fairly safe to live, it's aways daunting.

     I've never known the road names, numbers or exits but made my passage from memory.  

     It's been some years since they've removed the elevated tracks but I still get lost after crossing the Mystic River.

 

     

[Dave Henderson]

In Arlington, Virginia traffic circles aren't installed to ease the flow of traffic, but rather for "traffic calming".  Quiet residential neighborhoods are infested with them.   I have a strong suspicion that sometimes they pop up for another reason too, just to use up funds that otherwise would be lost at year's end.  They also increase street maintenance costs, with plantings and numerous signs.  

[rocketraider]

"Traffic calming" is one of the buzzwords that's trotted out to justify badly timed and sequenced traffic lights. 

 

What its proponents don't grasp is that it often provokes congestion and, even worse, road rage.

 

In one nearby town, it is impossible to travel the length of the three main through roads without getting stopped at every traffic light on those roads. I've seen it too many times. Even at midnight, with no traffic coming from side streets, when the light sensors detect an approaching vehicle that light goes red. And you sit there thru however many cycles the control system chooses. Usually after about 3 minutes with no other traffic to trigger the light to change I treat it as a stop sign.

 

Wonder what an autonomous vehicle would do faced with that scenario? Would it process a stuck traffic light or other vehicles in its vicinity?

[nat]

15 minutes ago, rocketraider said:

Wonder what an autonomous vehicle would do faced with that scenario? Would it process a stuck traffic light or other vehicles in its vicinity?

Pack some food and a sleeping bag.

[billorn]

"Traffic calming and roundabouts are stupid, they just slow everyone down and waste money."

Same people: "Stupid jerks drive too fast past my house! Someone ought to do something."

[60FlatTop]

We have had one up at the intersection of my street and main street in our town. I drive through it almost every morning.

 

My observation:

 

It makes the timid drivers more timid

 

And the aggressive drivers more aggressive.

 

The night drivers, well, it surprises the hell out of them. I give the village guy a thumbs up every time he is out there putting the sign in the circle back up. He just shakes his head and laughs. He's hourly.

 

The edit: Oh, and being a child of the '50s I can just see Tom McCahill adding a line a line for lateral force right below the 0-60 times. Maybe a grin number. They gotta be steering with one hand.

Edited April 9, 2023 by 60FlatTop (see edit history)

[EmTee]

3 hours ago, 60FlatTop said:

I give the village guy a thumbs up every time he is out there putting the sign in the circle back up.

As I said earlier! 

[Marty Roth]

1.     Exit your vehicle

2.     Initiate a "Meet-and-Greet" with the other three drivers

3.     Start a Poker game, or some other way to determine who passes through 1st, 2nd, 3rd, and last

4.     Remember to be courteous if one of the others starts to mouth-off.

5.     Enjoy your lunch

6.     Plan an alternate route

7.     Abandon your autonomous vehicle and wear your hiking boots

8.     Sell your autonomous vehicle and drive your antique/collector car

 

Or ---  Just grab the post and rip the 4-Way Stop Sign out of the ground, and sell it at Hershey,

and separately , just sell the @#$%&* autonomous vehicle

Edited April 10, 2023 by Marty Roth (see edit history)

[60FlatTop]

On 4/7/2023 at 11:12 AM, Str8-8-Dave said:

vehicle guidance systems are all designed to the same standard algorithm

 

"Hold it. Al Gore provided the concept. The programmer worked out the details."