Poll? on shipping containers

[carbking]

I do not know how to conduct a poll on this forum, but perhaps folks will answer in the thread, PLEASE do.

 

40 years ago, we packaged our carburetor rebuilding kits in Manila paper envelopes.

 

We had a lot of complaints that the package had to be opened to see what was in the package, so we changed to polypropylene see through plastic bags.

 

Today, there is much interest in going green.

 

I don't use (proportionately) a lot of plastic. In 46 years, I doubt that we have used 20 cubic feet total. But I started recycling items 70 years ago, and have done so my entire life; thus wish to both satisfy my customers, and be as ecologically friendly.

 

So the question:

 

Would you prefer to purchase a carburetor rebuilding kit in paper or plastic?

 

Second question:

 

Would the use of paper cause you NOT to buy.

 

Thanks in advance to those that respond.

 

Jon. 

[Dave39MD]

It would not really matter to me, paper or plastic but I would choose paper if given a choice. 

 

Paper would not bother me.

 

Dave

Edited August 22, 2022 by Dave39MD (see edit history)

[TAKerry]

I try to do my part to be earth friendly, I suppose I would prefer paper. Recycled would be that much the better. 

[John_S_in_Penna]

It does not matter to me:  Use whatever works

best for you, and provides the best padding.

Using a packaging that gradually decomposes

would be good.

[George Cole]

Resealable clear plastic so I can store unused parts there and see what they are without having to rip the package open again.

[1937hd45]

19 minutes ago, carbking said:

I do not know how to conduct a poll on this forum, but perhaps folks will answer in the thread, PLEASE do.

 

40 years ago, we packaged our carburetor rebuilding kits in Manila paper envelopes.

 

We had a lot of complaints that the package had to be opened to see what was in the package, so we changed to polypropylene see through plastic bags.

 

Today, there is much interest in going green.

 

I don't use (proportionately) a lot of plastic. In 46 years, I doubt that we have used 20 cubic feet total. But I started recycling items 70 years ago, and have done so my entire life; thus wish to both satisfy my customers, and be as ecologically friendly.

 

So the question:

 

Would you prefer to purchase a carburetor rebuilding kit in paper or plastic?

 

Second question:

 

Would the use of paper cause you NOT to buy.

 

Thanks in advance to those that respond.

 

Jon. 

CARDBOARD ONLY Dumpsters are behind most auto body shops and general businesses. A Table saw will allow you to cut boxes to size or just flat sheets of cardboard. I like carburetor gaskets and needles flat and unbent, cardboard helps prevent that. 

[Gunsmoke]

Any suitable solution that eliminates plastics wherever possible is best for everyone.

[Robert G. Smits]

I appreciate the desire to be environmentally friendly and have recycled for longer than I can remember.  When you look at what is going on in China, India and Africa it probably doesn't matter much however I vote for non-plastic.

[bryankazmer]

This is a lot of misinformation around this. 

First, neither paper, cardboard nor typical polyethylene/polypropylene films degrade appreciably in a typical landfill. There have been a number of studies on this, the anaerobic conditions prevent it.  So the amount of landfill trash generated depends on the initial volume of the packaging.

 

Paper and cardboard do degrade faster than PE/PP as litter.

 

There are plastics which will degrade under moist aerobic conditions, like paper does.  They are not as clear as PE or PP but I don't think that's a big deal in this case.

 

Mixed composition (paper and plastic bonded together) are the hardest to recycle.

[1937hd45]

Cardboard helps light a wood stove, plastic, not so much. 

[Highlander160]

I get the enviro spirit, but my worries center on who's handling it from supplier to me. What I've been getting comes in a resealable container. Excellent for unused used and spares. That's recycling at it's finest. I like flat gaskets and pump rods that aren't bent. Over a dozen years and so far so good. 

 

Not much more we can do with recycle. Already too much of that "raw material" that will never get used. Now it becomes islands of garbage in our seas and oceans by those who don't care. What I do care about is a quality product at a fair price that arrives as promised. Plastics make a nice shell on a landfill that contains the methane that runs generators that attach to the grid. Talk about renewables. And no moderators, I'm not being political. Think pragmatic instead😉

[Ford Fan]

If storing things in paper packages, why can't the contents be written on the outside?

 

Paper envelopes are available with see-through windows - maybe the best solution.

 

Gotta think outside the envelope!

 

 

 

[Mark Shaw]

2 hours ago, Ford Fan said:

If storing things in paper packages, why can't the contents be written on the outside?

I prefer stiff paper with contents identified on the outside.  

I would still by see-thru plastic, but it affords no stiffness to keep gaskets flat.

[Borough Essex]

You're the bloke who has to deal with complaints if goods are damaged in transit, so I would trust your judgement on the best way to package items. The world is drowning in plastic, so paper/cardboard would be preferable. 

[joe_padavano]

Frankly I have no preference, but sealed plastic does have the advantage of added protection against moisture. I live in a semi-rural area and delivery services have taken to leaving packages out by the mailbox - rain or shine. All grocery stores here accept plastic bags for recycling and we include all film plastic like shrink wrap. As noted above, the paper envelopes with bonded plastic bubble inside are impossible to recycle. Plastic wrapping with paper labels that cannot be removed are equally bad.

Edited August 23, 2022 by joe_padavano (see edit history)

[carbking]

Thanks to all thank have responded so far.

 

On-line polls (doing this on three different sites) are running 3 to 1 for paper.

 

Telephone poll when customers are calling wishing to order kits are:

 

Existing customers don't care, as they are familiar with our product.

 

New customers are running 9 to 1 in favor of see-through.

 

Will let the poll run a couple of weeks, but so far, this is why we went to the clear plastic in the beginning.

 

Jon

[60FlatTop]

For those customers using only select parts from the kit and having pieces left over usually for something you dropped on a later job, I like the way the old Jiffy Kit boxes stacked, myself.

[joe_padavano]

5 minutes ago, 60FlatTop said:

For those customers using only select parts from the kit and having pieces left over usually for something you dropped on a later job, I like the way the old Jiffy Kit boxes stacked, myself.

Boy, I thought I was the only one. 😉

[Bhigdog]

From an ecological stand point both paper and plastic have their problems in production and both, for the most part, will never be recycled. That said, what matters to me is protection from shipping damage. And just as long as you don't package your kits in those clear plastic, fused together, clam shell P I T A containers, the ones you need a good pair of aviation tin snips to open, I'll be satisfied...........Bob

[60FlatTop]

Whatever you do don't use the adhesive they put on the tinfoil under the lid of a peanut butter jar.

 

In that same vein, mail yourself a couple samples of what you propose. Unlike the president of the peanut butter company who never used the stuff.

[Frank DuVal]

1 hour ago, Bhigdog said:

From an ecological stand point both paper and plastic have their problems in production and both, for the most part, will never be recycled.

Around here the landfill operation has a cardboard/paper roll off and that DOES get recycled. 

 

Sure, if you put the cardboard and paper in the trash or mixed recycles, then it is not recycled at this time at our landfill operation.

 

Interesting, they do have a roll off for glass, as they crush that on site and use it for their "gravel" roads. 

[Frank DuVal]

1 hour ago, Bhigdog said:

And just as long as you don't package your kits in those clear plastic, fused together, clam shell P I T A containers, the ones you need a good pair of aviation tin snips to open, I'll be satisfied.

That's one thing I HATE about Costco and similar stores. They put stuff in those large plastic bubble/ cardboard containers to stop theft. I've cut myself pulling the product off the shelf! I agree do not use those, although I do not think they would be good for carburetor parts, and would need a sealing machine.

[carbking]

I guess I really didn't qualify total packaging, as some have mentioned it.

 

Currently, we seal small parts in small plastic bags. These with larger parts and a stiffening card are then sealed in a see-through plastic bag. This is the finished kit.

 

For shipping, these are then placed in a cardboard box, with packing. Box is sealed with tape (mostly) in the event item is left on the front step in the rain.

 

Previously, all of the plastic was paper; and the box was used for shipping.

 

Not worried about physical damage; as will not have damage (generally) with either method.

 

Damage in 45 years and I remember most of it:

 

UPS ran a forklift prong through a WOODEN box to break a tripower water neck.

UPS backed over a Corvair Turbo YH.

USPS (and Canadian customs) have lost several packages to Canada (and refuses to pay insurance).

 

Don't think either paper or plastic would make much difference on any of these. Just really concerned about the actual kit package, not the shipping container.

 

Jon.

Edited August 23, 2022 by carbking (see edit history)

[tcslr]

What options is less expensive that can be passed along to customer?  each can work equally well.  If you ask the plastics supplier - theirs is superior. If paper, theirs - and each group will point to the benefits they offer while explaining the downside their competition is.

 

Bob is correct, neither gets much recycling - the economics drive it.

 

 

 

 

[Frank DuVal]

Recycling is obviously a regional issues, as here the landfill is required to recycle 25% of the waste that comes in. If it wasn't for paper recycling this number would be hard to reach. But, this should not affect the choice of what is the best packaging for carburetor parts. 

[carbking]

Update - ran this poll on three different automotive forums.

 

Folks on the forums voted about 75 percent paper, 25 percent plastic.

 

But I asked the same question to those calling about or ordering rebuilding kits; and these folks voted approximately 85 percent plastic! The exceptions basically were repeat customers who were aware of our kits and customer service; the newbys wanted to see the parts.

 

So I guess we will stick with plastic for the foreseeable future.

 

THANKS to everyone who responded, and shared their opinions.

 

Jon.

[Highlander160]

On 8/23/2022 at 1:32 PM, Frank DuVal said:

That's one thing I HATE about Costco and similar stores. They put stuff in those large plastic bubble/ cardboard containers to stop theft. I've cut myself pulling the product off the shelf! I agree do not use those, although I do not think they would be good for carburetor parts, and would need a sealing 

Hand can opener. Internet hack that works for those hard plastic sealed pkgs.

[TTR]

On 8/29/2022 at 9:38 AM, carbking said:

Update - ran this poll on three different automotive forums.

 

Folks on the forums voted about 75 percent paper, 25 percent plastic.

 

But I asked the same question to those calling about or ordering rebuilding kits; and these folks voted approximately 85 percent plastic! The exceptions basically were repeat customers who were aware of our kits and customer service; the newbys wanted to see the parts.

 

So I guess we will stick with plastic for the foreseeable future.

 

THANKS to everyone who responded, and shared their opinions.

 

Jon.

Glad you found a solution YOU are comfortable. 

I also like you exposed the difference or reality between interweb peanut gallery and those who actually put their money on the line.

 

As I've mentioned elsewhere, I reproduce, sell and ship obsolete (curved) windshields and other (curved) windows for variety of 50+ year old vintage cars around the globe and in 25+ years doing it, I've researched/studied/tried various packing methods, but basically have been using the one I originally designed for the purpose, a wooden crate made of 2x2s and plywood, individually custom built for each shipment. Most domestic orders are shipped with truck freight and most international ones by ocean freight, although the sea fair delays in recent years, coupled with some price negotiations I've managed with couple of air freight providers, latter has become a bit more popular for international orders.

As for the packing, while perhaps excessively heavy (the crates usually weighs more than twice than their content, usually a single windshield), anyone who calls or email me back after receiving their order is usually amazed and appreciative of the strength of the crate and efforts I put into building one.

And in 25+ years, I've only received a one claim (I've mentioned it here before) of windshield having arrived cracked, though I'm 99+% sure it was bogus.

 

Bottom line: In my opinion, packing something well and strong for shipping is always better than using any cost cutting considerations.

Like all other things in a persons approach to business and/or personal matters, packing and shipping are also a reflection of that persons integrity. 

I couldn't tell how many shipments of all sorts of stuff, big and small (some even quite fragile/rare/unique/valuable), I've received from businesses and individuals over the decades that made me think it must've been packaged by someone with a single digit IQ or something.

 

P.S. While I too am relatively concerned about the environment and impact our (humans) stupidity has on it, I'm probably also far more conscientious about recycling and/or not creating unnecessary waste than most people here.