The Old Man of the Mountain - Jul/Aug 1966 Horseless Carriage Gazette, story of an early Peerless chassis rescued from a canyon

[AHa]

In the July August 1966 edition of the Horseless Carriage Gazette, is a story of an early Peerless six cylinder car chassis that was rescued from a canyon in southern California by helicopter. Does anybody know the rest of the story? 

[motoringicons]

The car has been restored with a newly created body. It has sold a couple of times in recent years.

 

https://heacockclassic.com/articles/1913-peerless-model-48-rescued-from-a-mountaintop/

[jeff_a]

The Old Man of the Mountain is best known as a rock face in New Hampshire that looked like a man's profile, and some called the  Model 48-Six, 578 Cu. In. T-Head Peerless that, before it was brought out of San Mateo Canyon. I think Merl Ledford, Gerald Luckow, and Ron Carey have owned it. The 1966 Gazette story was "THE PEERLESS THAT CAME IN FROM THE SKY". Not much was left of the car at that point, but it got put back together again.

Edited April 12, 2022 by jeff_a (see edit history)

[1937hd45]

Thanks! I remember reading that story, the restored version looks very nice. There was a time when it was common for people to find remains like that and restore them back to active tour cars. Today I don't think it would be looked upon in the same light, clone, fake, bitza, floor sweepings would dominate the conversation. 

 

Bob 

[Mark Shaw]

Yes, Gerry Luckow was a member of our HCCA Portland Group.  Jerry and his wife have long passed, but I do remember him driving this car on one of the club's earlier annual tours.  

[1912Staver]

This story was one of the first to really grab me . I am not old enough to have read it when it was first printed, 1966 I was still in primary school, but when I first became seriously interested in Brass cars years ago an older Brass car guy gave me a stack of old Gazettes and these two issues were in the stack.

I read the story of the Peerless and its recovery over and over, and for many years after had dreams of finding something along the same lines here in the British Columbia mountains. Never happened of course. British Columbia was picked over reasonably thoroughly in the later 1950's and 1960's just like the American South West. One never completely gives up hope, but it is a long time since I have heard of anyone finding a diamond in the wild in these parts.

Edited April 12, 2022 by 1912Staver (see edit history)

[AHa]

Thanks guys. The article inside the magazine is titled, The old man of the mountain. This phrase was coined by one of the children of the man who embarked on this adventure. It is an amazing story. I love these stories of cars rescued. A few more are "The Two Streaks in the Mud" story of the Pierce Arrow rescued on Long Island, the Columbia Cavalier spread all over a farm out west, and who can forget the American Underslungs. Sounds like material for a great coffee table book.

 

Whatever became of the mystery chassis presented on the letters page of the Nov./Dec. 1971 Antique Auto? It was found in Zululand, South Africa by Errol Harrison.

[Graham Man]

Beautiful car

 

Pictures from 2013 Auction

https://www.mecum.com/lots/CA0813-161585/1913-peerless-model-48-six-roadster/

[alsfarms]

For some of you that may know more of the story.  Does anyone know how the Peerless got down in the canyon in the first place?   Any ideas as to the type of body it would have had originally?  Pictures would be good?  What is the Model of this unit?  History is good even on a car that that came from the ravine like this one did!  I know personally of a similar year Case 15 HP Steam traction engine that was located, early on, in a very remote area, in the tops of a mountain range and used to power a sawmill.  The Peerless story should be written up and put with other known stories of interest and put in a book, as Aha has suggested.

Al

 

[Graham Man]

It was in the original article

 

This car was originally purchased for around $7,000 by an executive with the La Jolla Mining Company in California. After several years of traditional service, it was driven to and parked on their mining site, where it served as the power source for the operation, and was then abandoned for decades. It was left to decay until the 60’s, when a chance encounter with a Horseless Carriage club member who spotted it from the air began the incredible rescue process. It was finally airlifted out of the canyon by helicopter in 1966,

[1912Staver]

2 hours ago, alsfarms said:

For some of you that may know more of the story.  Does anyone know how the Peerless got down in the canyon in the first place?   Any ideas as to the type of body it would have had originally?  Pictures would be good?  What is the Model of this unit?  History is good even on a car that that came from the ravine like this one did!  I know personally of a similar year Case 15 HP Steam traction engine that was located, early on, in a very remote area, in the tops of a mountain range and used to power a sawmill.  The Peerless story should be written up and put with other known stories of interest and put in a book, as Aha has suggested.

Al

 

 

In Western Canada similar steam engines were usually moved in the Winter on skis. Wheels would be removed beforehand. Not really needed at a mine site or sawmill anyway. A large team of Horses can move quite a load over the snow, although sometimes a Cat tractor would be used for really steep terrain. 

[George K]

6 hours ago, 1912Staver said:

This story was one of the first to really grab me . I am not old enough to have read it when it was first printed, 1966 I was still in primary school, but when I first became seriously interested in Brass cars years ago an older Brass car guy gave me a stack of old Gazettes and these two issues were in the stack.

I read the story of the Peerless and its recovery over and over, and for many years after had dreams of finding something along the same lines here in the British Columbia mountains. Never happened of course. British Columbia was picked over reasonably thoroughly in the later 1950's and 1960's just like the American South West. One never completely gives up hope, but it is a long time since I have heard of anyone finding a diamond in the wild in these parts.

Wasn’t the man who saved that car Jim Renzulli?  I spent some time with Jim and remember he telling me the story of retrieving a car by helicopter.

[AHa]

Ed Seville of the La Jolla Regional Group was the guy who found the car. He did ariel surveys with a helicopter and spotted the chassis on the side of a mountain. He told Merl Ledford about the sighting and it was Merl who undertook to get the car out. I doubt this was the only car rescued by helicopter.

 

I expect the car came out as a roadster. The length of the frame generally designates roadster or other in these years.

Edited April 12, 2022 by AHa (see edit history)

[AHa]

7 hours ago, 1937hd45 said:

Thanks! I remember reading that story, the restored version looks very nice. There was a time when it was common for people to find remains like that and restore them back to active tour cars. Today I don't think it would be looked upon in the same light, clone, fake, bitza, floor sweepings would dominate the conversation. 

I would guess there are very few brass era cars that at one time were not bitza.

[1937hd45]

1 minute ago, AHa said:

I would guess there are very few brass era cars that at one time were not bitza.

If I decided to take my 1912 Ford that was restored in time to drive the 1950 Glidden Tour and restore it to a First Junior AACA quality winning restoration it would have to become a birza. If I had a bare two car garage and put the "Keeper" parts on one side and the not good enough to use parts on the other I'd have a frame, springs, rear axle, oil pan, transmission cover, brake lever, body, top irons and windshield, and a bucket of nuts and bolts. EVERYTHING else would be new reproduction parts, but I'd have a $10.00 trophy when it was all done. 

[AHa]

Someone commented recently that in order to drive any Stanley Steamer, at least 1/3rd of the original parts would have to be replaced with new. Is it then a restoration or recreation? We were discussing the newly "discovered" sister car to Old 16 recently and the court case remarked about new rods being produced and extensive work done to the transmission. Recreation or restoration? The truth is, in any case where the car is meant to be driven, a lot of parts are replaced in a restoration. Very few brass era cars have original spark plugs, or wires, or tires, or pistons, paint, upholstery, etc, etc, just to name a few of the more obvious. However, new crankcases are poured and machined, as well as new piston jugs. In a two million dollar restoration, just how much of the original car exists? I'm not passing any judgment. I'm just glad to have something to see.

 

I liked the little Duryea buggy. I didn't have to win one though, I bought mine from a guy at Hershey who was selling all his.

[wayne sheldon]

It is a tough subject, and a very difficult line to draw. No restored car is 100 percent original. Frankly most nearly all original cars are not 100 percent original. Ed M's 1917 White is about as close as they can get!

The question becomes how much "not original" is too much? After a hundred years, many things are usually beyond salvage. Paint, upholstery, tires and other rubber parts, even wooden framing, running boards, and trim, are often beyond use.

 

(I got interrupted again, AHa snuck in ahead of me)

 

The Stanley Steamers he brought up are one of the best examples of a car that most of the cars on the road today could not be allowed as antiques if a hard and fast line were drawn at around 60 to 80 percent original by weight? In the past, many hobbyists have suggested 75 percent. A lot of cars? If in good shape to begin with, that is doable. But, some cars, like many early steam cars, Between rotted wooden bodies, boilers, and all the other usual stuff? A lot of them would be in trouble at 50 percent truly original. A lot of pre 1910 gas and electric cars could have trouble at that level as well.

 

My 1915 model T Ford runabout is an interesting contradiction. Truly a floor sweepings car. Built up around an original early 1915 body, that was separated from its rightful chassis by some lazy restorer back around 1960. The chassis probably got a wrong year cheap body because people then didn't know any better, and that was easier than re-wooding a marginal original body. The body then bounced around for years from one bad owner to another, until a good friend of mine acquired it on an earlier chassis that he wanted for one of his projects. In turn, he made me a great offer when I was looking to put a 1915 T together. I had been collecting model T parts for many years, with special attention to the late brass era years. So I already had most of what this original body was missing.

So, it is what it is. I tell people that it is a reassembly built around a real early 1915 body. I also tell people that it has more real 1914 through 1916 more than a hundred year old sheet metal and most other visible parts than most Brass model Ts on most HCCA tours. Sad, but frankly, true. I made my own patch panels, for the body itself where part of it was rusted away, as well as patch panels for the fenders and side aprons where needed. Even the aluminum hood I think is an original. Even the running boards, have the smaller bolt holes for bolting to the fenders. Ford switched to the larger bolts about 1917. Can't date them much closer than that. It would have been a lot easier to have used the nice 1920s running boards I also had, but I wanted them as close as I could get them. So as rough as the earliest ones I had were, I repaired them. The bolt sizes date them to after 1913, but not as late as 1918.

In the entire car, there probably isn't two square feet of sheet metal that is less than a hundred years old.

 

In one way, my car is so very wrong. Yet, in another way, it is more right than most. And, regardless, I like it.

 

Hobbyists for many years built cars up from remains of something that had at one time been a car. For the most part, I always believed it was better to do so than to lose the car completely and forever. It was better to be able to see, hear, and experience what had been than to have nothing left but a few old photographs and maybe one small part hidden away here or there.

 

Recreations of one sort or another, tribute cars? A lot of them also fall into the "better to see them and hear them" category. Or do they? I am afraid I am not Solomon.

Certainly, there is a place for them. However sometimes I see cars claimed to be things that they clearly are NOT! 

A tough line to draw.

Edited April 13, 2022 by wayne sheldon
I hate leaving typos! (see edit history)

[Restorer32]

Many years ago we fabricated a new convertible top assembly for a '31 Pierce that was found on the land above a fjord in Norway where it had been abandoned after disassembly.  The fellow who found it scoured the area and found sheet metal scattered by the wind over a 1 mile radius. He actually finished the car.

[TAKerry]

I think an interesting perspective on acceptance depends on whether the car was built before the war or if its a dynacorn body for a mustang.

[Terry Bond]

So, how did they manage to get a title for it? 

Terry

[West Peterson]

In regard to what is accepted on the AACA show field, there may be some confusion based on what is said. 

 

First, too many people seem to forget that original and original condition have two entirely different definitions insofar as Antique Cars are concerned. Original Condition means NOT restored; Original is a little more complicated as it means the car has all authentic parts, and could also mean that all the parts on a particular car are the ones it was originally fitted with. Then, of course, people also confuse Original Condition with Authentically Restored, often times making a contradicting statement: "all original, completely restored."

 

Second, AACA accepts and judges cars as they would have appeared on the dealer's lot. The club DOES NOT check for numbers matching, panel replacement, wood replacement, engine replacement, etc.

 

In regard to floor sweepings, bitsa cars, etc. Those are terms referred to by collectors themselves... NOT the AACA, or any other club for that matter (other than maybe some of the muscle car or Corvette clubs/organizations). The value of a car with absolute known history from new, with a provenance that can be proven beyond a shadow of a doubt, are worth exponentially more than a car that has a provenance that cannot be proven... and, rightly so, in my opinion. But, my opinion doesn't matter. It's a matter of fact in regard to today's market. Even a car that retains all of its original sheet metal, but has had most of its wooden structure replaced, is considered a red-headed stepchild in the eyes of the people paying the astronomical money for investment cars.

 

All that to say, DON'T BLAME AACA OR HCCA. Please do not tie HCCA or AACA to the investors who have made their own rules in regard to cars that are "accepted" or not "accepted". The OP Peerless above is totally accepted by both clubs, as are cars such as the lovely T that Wayne Sheldon owns and told us about above. Wayne, and most AACA members, restore and build cars for the love of the car, the hobby, and the social benefits.

[edinmass]

14 hours ago, AHa said:

I would guess there are very few brass era cars that at one time were not bitza.

 

 

Very, very few. 

[edinmass]

20 minutes ago, West Peterson said:

In regard to what is accepted on the AACA show field, there may be some confusion based on what is said. 

 

First, too many people seem to forget that original and original condition have two entirely different definitions insofar as Antique Cars are concerned. Original Condition means NOT restored; Original is a little more complicated as it means the car has all authentic parts, and could also mean that all the parts on a particular car are the ones it was originally fitted with. Then, of course, people also confuse Original Condition with Authentically Restored, often times making a contradicting statement: "all original, completely restored."

 

Second, AACA accepts and judges cars as they would have appeared on the dealer's lot. The club DOES NOT check for numbers matching, panel replacement, wood replacement, engine replacement, etc.

 

In regard to floor sweepings, bitsa cars, etc. Those are terms referred to by collectors themselves... NOT the AACA, or any other club for that matter (other than maybe some of the muscle car or Corvette clubs/organizations). The value of a car with absolute known history from new, with a provenance that can be proven beyond a shadow of a doubt, are worth exponentially more than a car that has a provenance that cannot be proven... and, rightly so, in my opinion. But, my opinion doesn't matter. It's a matter of fact in regard to today's market. Even a car that retains all of its original sheet metal, but has had most of its wooden structure replaced, is considered a red-headed stepchild in the eyes of the people paying the astronomical money for investment cars.

 

All that to say, DON'T BLAME AACA OR HCCA. Please do not tie HCCA or AACA to the investors who have made their own rules in regard to cars that are "accepted" or not "accepted". The OP Peerless above is totally accepted by both clubs, as are cars such as the lovely T that Wayne Sheldon owns and told us about above. Wayne, and most AACA members, restore and build cars for the love of the car, the hobby, and the social benefits.

 

 

Any collector of pre war cars should read the above, set it to memory.  Investment grade cars.......not a term I coined or like..........are a different world apart from 99.95 percent of what most of us here play with. 

[Bill Boudway]

55 minutes ago, Terry Bond said:

So, how did they manage to get a title for it? 

Terry

No Problem, even in NY State.

Send me a PM. I know the drill.

[1912Staver]

How do you get a Title for ANY car built before Titles existed ? There is probably a process in existence in every State. And it was probably written into law at the time Titles were introduced in each particular State. Does not mean it is an easy process, but most likely with persistence and $ can almost always be accomplished except in States where cars older than a certain year are not issued titles.

[West Peterson]

Bill of sale is needed, along with bringing the car to title office for visual inspection of serial number/VIN

[AHa]

In the case of this Peerless, it was driven into the gorge in mostly original condition, with all its parts and pieces. When the extraction occurred, great care was taken to gather up as many of the parts and pieces as could be found. I believe a Peerless of this vintage would have cast aluminum body panels, so, except for the wood, the car was probably 90-95% complete. The restoration took 18 years according to the article but this was before internet searches and digital copies. The car changed hands at least once during restoration. A six cylinder Peerless of this vintage would be a time consuming project.

 

Titles were easier to get in 1966 than they are today.

Edited April 13, 2022 by AHa (see edit history)

[Paul Dobbin]

I remember driving past th New Hampshire "Old Man on the Mountain" many times during the 1998 Glidden tour in Bretton Woods NH.

Shottly after that tour, the old mans face fell off.    (To much rubber necking when the Glidden cars went past)

[Graham Man]

A few Graham meets back we just said it had to have a Graham engine to be judged in "Not Modified" class, WAY TO HOT OF TOPIC for civil discourse.  There are a thousand ways to argue this topic.  New brake shoes are OK in my book, complete new reproduction body is not, everything else is grey area.

 

What about a Duesenberg where the owner switched Duesenberg bodies to a different frame...but all original parts... the argument is endless.

 

I would like to think the car has to represent itself, but several cars recently have been sold with "questionable" claims of originality and pedigree.  There have even been lawsuits in the Graham world over originality and pedigree claims by buyers/sellers, unfortunately as those of us that know the difference pass away, it will just get worse.

[jeff_a]

Temple Baldwin told me he was there when it was recovered. He might know a little more about it if anyone here is a friend. I went to the Bakersfield HCCA Swap Meet once, and everyone I talked to seemed to know who he was. 

[trimacar]

A lot of people into early brass, particularly high HP stuff, know Temple well.  I met him through my best friend here in Virginia, and Temple advised me on a couple of cars I bought.

 

It was interesting to walk with him at Hershey once.  He knows all the major big brass cars, and he’d point to this one and say “yeah, Harrahs made the whole back body section of that touring “ or that one and say “ it started out as just an engine and a frame”.

 

Haven’t talked  to him in a while, if I can get more of the story on the OP car I’ll let you know…

[Bhigdog]

What was once made by the hand of man can again be made by the hand of man....................But it ain't the same thing..........Bob

[trimacar]

33 minutes ago, Bhigdog said:

What was once made by the hand of man can again be made by the hand of man....................But it ain't the same thing..........Bob

Yes, I agree…but I the world of old cars, 50 or 100 years from now they’re all “original”…There area lot of cars now, restored in the 1950s, either touted or appearing as “original”, because the time frame of reference is so difficult..