58L-Y8 Posted August 12, 2020 Share Posted August 12, 2020 (edited) 1921 Studebaker EG Big Six 7 pass touring - $21,000 - Mission Hills, KS - SOLD - Now Reactivation Project https://kansascity.craigslist.org/cto/d/kansas-city-1921-studebaker-eg/7175644485.html 1921 Studebaker EG Big Six 7 passenger touring car354 ci six cylinder flathead, 60 hp @ 2000 RPM126” Wheelbase, 33x3 tires, Serial Number 332579Unrestored originalThe car is in excellent running condition, stops, starts and drives well. No dents, damage or rust-through on the body. It is in largely complete and in original, unrestored condition. There is little paint remaining as can be seen in the pictures. The rear seat has the original leather upholstery, the front seat has been reupholstered. The car has a newer top, top boot and a tonneau cover. All instruments and lights are in working order. It has an accessory spot light that penetrates the windshield, brass wind-wings as well as iron clamp retainers for the top irons. The original side curtains are included although the plastic windows need replacement. It has gap wires at the spark plugs that show a visible spark when then each cylinder fires. The engine uses the original vacuum fuel pump that works perfectly. The windshield has been replaced with safety glass. The car includes a hubcap wrench and a hub puller to remove the rear wheels if necessary.The car was bought new by a sheriff near Cleveland who drove it 26850 miles before putting it into storage in 1932. It was sold in 1973 and parked in a garage until 1995 when it was bought by David Neitzel who got the car running again. I bought the car in 2010 from his estate. It currently shows 28944 miles on the odometer which I believe to be correct. The Neitzels provided extensive hand written notes regarding the car history and their acquisition of it. The car appeared on the front cover of the March-April 2004 issue of the Antique Studebaker Review.To buy another car with this much horsepower, Studebaker advertised that it would cost 2 – 3 times more. Studebakers were renown for their reliability, and a 1919 Studebaker EG (same model as this car) was found in 1923 that had run 475,000 miles without having the engine rebuilt. They bought the car, drove it from Los Angeles to Chicago. It appeared in advertising in 1923. The car is now in the Studebaker National Museum. Contact: No phone listed. Copy and paste in your email: 03b88665b379348cbac55c6d1399473c@sale.craigslist.org I have no personal interest or stake in the eventual sale of this 1921 Studebaker EG Big Six 7 pass touring. Note: The Big Six Studebaker 354 ci engine really is a big displacement powerplant for the period. Consider the following: Cadillac V8 314 ci; Marmon 34 six 339.7 ci; Lincoln V8 371.1ci; Packard Single Six 268.4 ci; Single Eight 357.8 ci; Pierce-Arrow 80 six 288.5 ci; Peerless V8 331.8 ci; Cole V8 346.4 ci; Buick Six 241.6 ci; Apperson V8 331.8 ci; Stutz K four 360.8 ci; Stearns-Knight six 268.8 ci; Roamer 6-54E 303.1 ci; REO T-6 239.4 ci. Contemporaries, many more expensive than the Studebaker Big Six, didn't offer the performance and value to be found in this model. Edited February 3, 2022 by 58L-Y8 SOLD - Now Reactivation Project (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted August 12, 2020 Share Posted August 12, 2020 More fun than a barrel of monkeys......and a good looking car to boot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ericmac Posted August 13, 2020 Share Posted August 13, 2020 Man...all the cool cars are coming out of the woodwork. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Linus Tremaine Posted August 13, 2020 Share Posted August 13, 2020 im after this car. i hope it works out. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimy Posted August 13, 2020 Share Posted August 13, 2020 That would be perfect for you, Linus. We gotta sign you up for the Nickel Age Touring Club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Wetherbee Posted August 13, 2020 Share Posted August 13, 2020 I had a 24 Special Six many years ago and it was a beast of a car. Good quality and fast enough to go with highway traffic, only thing you had to keep in mind is that it only has two wheel brakes on tall skinny tires... This is a very similar car and in great original shape! Good luck Linus! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
58L-Y8 Posted August 13, 2020 Author Share Posted August 13, 2020 6 hours ago, Linus Tremaine said: I'm after this car. i hope it works out. I was trying to recall who was interested in a Studebaker Big Six, I hope you get it. It looks to be a very well preserved example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suchan Posted August 13, 2020 Share Posted August 13, 2020 Great-looking and imposing car at a fair asking price. I enjoyed the "Do Not Touch" sticker on the dash. Good luck with the purchase, Linus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Harwood Posted August 13, 2020 Share Posted August 13, 2020 THAT is how patina should look! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fossil Posted August 13, 2020 Share Posted August 13, 2020 That car is just amazing. A museum on wheels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Linus Tremaine Posted August 14, 2020 Share Posted August 14, 2020 SUCCESS! I bought it. Finally found what I have been looking for. ; L 13 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wayne sheldon Posted August 14, 2020 Share Posted August 14, 2020 (edited) FANTASTIC! Just another reason I HAVE to get back into touring, so I can go on your camp out next year and see this treasure. Not quite the same, but I had a '25 small six Studebaker years ago and loved it! I also had a '15 ED six which was the forerunner of your new car's series. I really loved that car! Pre-WW2 Studebaker automobiles, then and now, are one of the best cars for the money one can get. And the big ones are the BEST! Congratulations! Edited August 14, 2020 by wayne sheldon spotted a typo :( (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C Carl Posted August 14, 2020 Share Posted August 14, 2020 Sort as needed where it is, and drive the slow scenic roads home. Of course these days, you better have a chase car & trailer. I plan to do the same when I am FINALLY able to go get my '27 Cadillac. Take lots of pictures and videos. I sure hope this old Stude treats you right. Good going ! - Carl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
58L-Y8 Posted August 14, 2020 Author Share Posted August 14, 2020 10 hours ago, Linus Tremaine said: SUCCESS! I bought it. Finally found what I have been looking for. ; L Congratulations! Glad this well-preserved Big Six Studebaker has an appreciative new conservator., Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SparkEE Posted August 14, 2020 Share Posted August 14, 2020 13 hours ago, wayne sheldon said: FANTASTIC! Just another reason I HAVE to get back into touring, so I can go on your camp out next year and see this treasure. Not quite the same, but I had a '25 small six Studebaker years ago and loved it! I also had a '15 ED six which was the forerunner of your new car's series. I really loved that car! Pre-WW2 Studebaker automobiles, then and now, are one of the best cars for the money one can get. ANd the big ones are the BEST! Congratulations! Funny, reminds me of car tour camp outs we used to go on as well. Maybe 2021/2022 will be the year to reinvigorate those activities on a larger scale. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Linus Tremaine Posted September 27, 2020 Share Posted September 27, 2020 On 8/13/2020 at 7:04 PM, Ben P. said: Wow. I’m not so sure you found it — some cars choose their owners.... So it’s the bumpers that are the most interesting part of the car to me. When you get it home check the back of the bumper bolts for the mark in the top picture below. ‘Metal St(amping) Co.’ Long Island City New York. If that’s there you’ve got yourself a pair of ‘Lyon Resilient Indestructible Bumpers’ and I’ve only seen a f/r pair on one other car and I don’t recall if they were a matched full width set on that car. Bottom picture is a 1917 ad out of Montgomery Wards for them (far left bottom). They ran this style through the early 20’s. In my eyes they are the best looking accessory bumpers ever built for cars before 1927, period. A forum search on Lyon bumpers will turn up many more pictures. Congratulations Sure enough Ben. Here is the bumper clamp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
58L-Y8 Posted September 27, 2020 Author Share Posted September 27, 2020 Linus: Did the Studebaker turn out to be what you'd hoped it would be? Please tell us about it when you have the chance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Linus Tremaine Posted September 29, 2020 Share Posted September 29, 2020 (edited) Well yes and no. It’s going to need a lot more work than I hoped. I knew the second I saw it that it was in a lot worse shape than I hoped and I dont know why but I got it anyway. I was hoping for a car that was actually being maintained to a level of drivability for touring - really it was just kept running and that’s about it. Water pump shaft is shot so it keeps leaking even after changing the packing. Wood wheels are too loose for my trip. For a town driver, ok but not for 8k miles many of which will be dirt. Radiator has multiple leaks. Head gasket and exhaust gasket will need changing. Generator not working, starter gear loose on crank shaft, Tires too old for trip. It had three inches of tow out on the front wheels. Drove like hell. King pins are sloppy. Some of the wood wheel bolts were worn so badly that they just snapped off when I tried to tighten them. the worst part is the transmission. It’s in terrible shape. First thing that happen was it got stuck. I have learned that the aluminum cases are problematic. I believe that the bearings are so shot that the shafts are not staying in alignment under load. It’s very hard to get out of gear and often I have to let the clutch out again and try a second time making sure no load is on the gears at all. I took the top cover off and there was a lot of metal in the oil and pieces in the bottom. The gears are very worn. I hope that with new bearings it will be ok and that the case is not damaged. I guess if there was good news I would say that I do like the car and despite these issues it does drive and I fit in it and it looks the way I wanted my car to look. It was going to be very hard to find a car that looked this way and was well maintained and I know that because I looked for one for ever. I am very frustrated as a restored 22 big six went to auction right after I got this and only a few hours away and it sold for less. as always the best advice for old cars is to always buy the best possible car you can find. This wasn’t that car but I’m pretty sure it’s as close as I was going to find within any reasonable budget. Edited September 29, 2020 by Linus Tremaine (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Linus Tremaine Posted September 29, 2020 Share Posted September 29, 2020 (edited) Here is the look I’m going for. 1920s road warrior. Drive in rain and dark and snow and mud. Going to add just enough accessories as to be slightly annoying. Edited September 29, 2020 by Linus Tremaine (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Linus Tremaine Posted September 29, 2020 Share Posted September 29, 2020 I don’t know why this always happens to my pictures but it does. Whatever the case - here it is on an original wooden Lincoln highway bridge and a Later steel bridge in Wyoming. I stopped and took it out of the trailer on the way back so I could go on this bridge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B Jake Moran Posted September 29, 2020 Share Posted September 29, 2020 Linus Clearly you wanted it but I am way disappointed that yet another seller neglected the FACTS about the issues which should have been disclosed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wayne sheldon Posted September 29, 2020 Share Posted September 29, 2020 Yes Linus T, a bit disappointing. But a very nice looking car. Unfortunately, a lot of people think bad steering and shifting was how cars were in the old days. That has always been a problem in the hobby. The 1915 Studebaker six I used to have? The previous owner had driven it on several tours. He told me the brakes didn't work very well. When I got it, the first time i drove it it had practically NO Brakes. I crawled under the car, saw the problem. A main brake rod was too short resulting in a severe maladjustment of the brakes. It took a bit over an hour to go to the hardware store for something I needed, make a rod extension, and adjust the brakes properly. the previous owner had been driving the car tht way for a few years, always thinking it was "just how they were". He may have underplayed it? But at least he did tell me the brakes didn't work very well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B Jake Moran Posted September 29, 2020 Share Posted September 29, 2020 Hi Wayne I am a factory trained and ASE Master Technician. I have not turned wrenches professionally for several years. But if this happened to me I would do the same thing. Crawl under there and see what's going on! So many people are afraid that they just don't try. Sometimes I make it better, sometimes the same, sometimes worse, but it's a fun part - the discovery - that makes me want a really old car like this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
58L-Y8 Posted September 29, 2020 Author Share Posted September 29, 2020 16 hours ago, Linus Tremaine said: wooden Lincoln highway bridge and a Later steel bridge in Wyoming. Linus: Thanks for the update, sorry the Studebaker didn't turn out to be in better mechanical condition. Although I suspect what you've discovered in the Studebaker what it true of too many original cars, that they run but their drivability is serious compromised by neglect. Hope you will be able to overcome those problems to eventual make the Big Six into a viable tour car. BTW, neat photos at period appropriate locations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
58L-Y8 Posted September 29, 2020 Author Share Posted September 29, 2020 Inverted and saved with a different name, seems to work well. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stude24 Posted September 29, 2020 Share Posted September 29, 2020 Now that's better, glad to see you're not upside down on the Studebaker yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m-mman Posted September 30, 2020 Share Posted September 30, 2020 (edited) On 9/28/2020 at 9:26 PM, Linus Tremaine said: For a town driver, ok but not for 8k miles many of which will be dirt. Radiator has multiple leaks. Head gasket and exhaust gasket will need changing. Generator not working, starter gear loose on crank shaft, Tires too old for trip. It had three inches of tow out on the front wheels. Drove like hell. King pins are sloppy. Some of the wood wheel bolts were worn so badly that they just snapped off when I tried to tighten them. If you were living in the late 20s early 30s and purchased a "good used car" for a cross country trip I would suspect that it would be in very similar condition. Perhaps the reason people say "that's just the way they were" is because they wore out faster than we remember and as a 5-7 year old 30,000 - 50,000 used car, they were pretty shot. Remember the preparation that the Joads (and their kind) had to do to make it to California. . . . . Edited September 30, 2020 by m-mman (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stude Light Posted October 5, 2020 Share Posted October 5, 2020 Hi Linus, I suggest you start posting in the Studebaker forum for your needs....there are parts out there. Also join the Antique Studebaker Club and put a wanted ad in the Antique Studebaker Review. You would be surprised how many older owners and collectors can't/don't particpate in the online forums but still respond to the hard print ads. Ask lots of questions. It's a fantastic looking car. Good luck. Scott 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Linus Tremaine Posted October 8, 2020 Share Posted October 8, 2020 Another ad for the Lyon bumper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wayne sheldon Posted October 8, 2020 Share Posted October 8, 2020 A 1921 Sayers touring car I had many years ago, had a bumper like that on it. It was clearly an after-market add-on. The ad mentions not needing to drill holes in the frame. It was held on with "J" bolts. I doubt it would have held up well in a collision. Wish I could have kept the car and restored it. I have never seen or heard of another survivor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dale Tharp Posted October 8, 2020 Share Posted October 8, 2020 Good morning Lunis this Dale out in Ks. about 2 1/2 hrs. from where you bought the Studebaker, I was curious as to whether you have any Studebaker kin in California, there are a lot of Studebakers out there, when I go to the family reunion in Ohio and read roster I notice that? Thanks dale.tharp@gmail.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Linus Tremaine Posted October 8, 2020 Share Posted October 8, 2020 hi dale, i dont personally know any other studebaker people. There is a pretty good facebook group called nor cal antique studebaker and there are a good number of active people there. There is also rick down in southern california who has been very helpful to me. He makes the chevy distributor conversion and SS water pump shafts. I keep learning about more people here, so I think there are more than I would have guessed which is good. L Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stude Light Posted October 9, 2020 Share Posted October 9, 2020 If you are looking for bumpers, Robert Kapteyn may still have these - in Illinois. I dropped them off at his place a few years ago. "rbk" on the forum - active in the Studebaker group. Scott Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbk Posted October 27, 2020 Share Posted October 27, 2020 Yes I still have the pile of bumpers you brought. If anyone is interested in any of these, they are available, plus a large hoard of early parts that Scott brought over. Winter is coming and the Covid got me pinned down but If I can help, I will. Parts from 29 Studebaker dealer inventories. http://jolietstudebaker.com/the-building/ Robert Kapteyn studebaker@mac.com 815 212 2389 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Linus Tremaine Posted November 25, 2020 Share Posted November 25, 2020 Another full page from a 1918 catalog showing the Lyon resilient bumpers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
58L-Y8 Posted November 25, 2020 Author Share Posted November 25, 2020 Linus: Any progress to report on the Big Six? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Linus Tremaine Posted February 3, 2022 Share Posted February 3, 2022 All i thought i would give an update on the studebaker. I put off all the work it needed for too long and finally was forced to start working on it recently when the fan blade broke. Sadly, it ruined the radiator core, but it was already marginal. I have taken it out and it is going to get a modern core. I paid to have a tube core constructed for my other old car and it cools poorly. I regret spending the extra money. This car will be driven so I need good cooling. I am also rebuilding the water pump, doing a valve grind and all the other neglected maintenance on the engine is being done. I will pull the transmission out soon and have found someone who will work on it. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
58L-Y8 Posted February 3, 2022 Author Share Posted February 3, 2022 Thanks for the updates, it's good to see progress is being made. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsfarms Posted February 3, 2022 Share Posted February 3, 2022 ohhhh.....The fun of lifting a head off old gummed up studs! Have you been successful without extra collateral damage? Are you heading for a full on engine rebuild or just repair as needed? Al Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimy Posted February 3, 2022 Share Posted February 3, 2022 (edited) 16 minutes ago, alsfarms said: ohhhh.....The fun of lifting a head off old gummed up studs! Have you been successful without extra collateral damage? Are you heading for a full on engine rebuild or just repair as needed? Al Just in case a previous owner did the same thing as the owner of my 1922 Paige--namely, re-used an old copper-asbestos head gasket but applied Indian Head gasket shellac to both copper sides: I wound up using two take-apart spark plug bases in cylinders #2 and #5 with eye bolts through them (eye on top, nuts on bottom, of course), then chains & hooks through the eyes, attached to a cherry picker engine hoist. The hoist lifted the front tires one inch off the ground. I anointed the stud penetrations through the head daily with a solvent (acetone + ATF). After about 5 days, while I was working on something else in the shop, the corrosion finally gave way and the front end dropped to the floor. The head remained captive on the length of the studs, so it did not swing around or do any damage. It then took about 4 hours to clean the mating surfaces of the deck and head. Edited February 3, 2022 by Grimy fix typo (see edit history) 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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