The Car Which Shall Not Be Named III (1935 Lincoln K)

[95Cardinal]

Excellent news!

Congratulations on your uneventful outing!

[Matt Harwood]

Drove the Lincoln to work this morning without incident. Ran at 170-175 the whole time with 76-degree temperatures. Very good news indeed.

 

The jangling sound is still present, and I think it's the left rear wheel hub. It's only audible on decel. A light metallic jingling. I know I've heard other cars making that sound. I'll pull the hub apart and see what's going on in there. Maybe something loose in the brakes or...?

[zdillinger]

18 minutes ago, Matt Harwood said:

Drove the Lincoln to work this morning without incident. Ran at 170-175 the whole time with 76-degree temperatures. Very good news indeed.

 

The jangling sound is still present, and I think it's the left rear wheel hub. It's only audible on decel. A light metallic jingling. I know I've heard other cars making that sound. I'll pull the hub apart and see what's going on in there. Maybe something loose in the brakes or...?

Stupid question, but the keys aren't hitting the dash or jangling by chance are they?

[Matt Harwood]

4 minutes ago, zdillinger said:

Stupid question, but the keys aren't hitting the dash or jangling by chance are they?

Definitely not. I can only hear it when I'm next to something to reflect the sound like a bridge barrier or tall curb. It's outside the passenger compartment and on the driver's side (because I couldn't hear it when Melanie was driving). I hope whatever it is will be obvious if I take the rear hub apart.

[zdillinger]

42 minutes ago, Matt Harwood said:

Definitely not. I can only hear it when I'm next to something to reflect the sound like a bridge barrier or tall curb. It's outside the passenger compartment and on the driver's side (because I couldn't hear it when Melanie was driving). I hope whatever it is will be obvious if I take the rear hub apart.

Gotcha, just a thought. 

[ply33]

2 hours ago, Matt Harwood said:

Definitely not. I can only hear it when I'm next to something to reflect the sound like a bridge barrier or tall curb. It's outside the passenger compartment and on the driver's side (because I couldn't hear it when Melanie was driving). I hope whatever it is will be obvious if I take the rear hub apart.

Maybe it is something easy like a hub cap a bit loose and moving around. Anyway, I hope the cause is easy to identify and easy and cheap to fix.

[alsancle]

I hate to be a pessimistic but I had a car that did that.  You needed the sound reflection to hear it and it was only on slight left turns.   Twenty years of looking and I never figured it out.

[TAKerry]

Car looks great out and about. Glad your stepfather made the outing, Im sure he appreciated it. Hope you get that annoying noise figured out.

Reminds me of years ago we had a civic sedan that my wife drove mostly. We went out and were driving through town with buildings on each side, all I heard was an annoying squeal that was not audible to me in the country side. I thought it was a car beside us. Turned out the breaks were shot and squealing. Of course she said, 'oh yea, Ive been hearing that for sometime now!'

[Matt Harwood]

Found it!

 

 

 

Looks like some idiot didn't sufficiently tighten the inner nut. Oh, wait, that idiot is me. I don't know how I could have screwed it up when I installed the new seals like two years ago, but there it is.

 

I snugged everything back into place and buttoned it up, then checked the other side just to be sure (it was fine). The great thing about full floating axles is that they don't really put much stress on any of the components, so I doubt I did any damage. There wasn't even any vibration because the wheel still spins true even if the bearings are loose. I'm still glad I caught it, obviously.

 

It's 90 degrees. Heading out for one of my 20-mile test loops to see whether my repair worked and how the cooling system fares in some real heat.

[John Bloom]

3 minutes ago, Matt Harwood said:

Found it!

 

 

 

Looks like some idiot didn't sufficiently tighten the inner nut. Oh, wait, that idiot is me. I don't know how I could have screwed it up when I installed the new seals like two years ago, but there it is.

 

I snugged everything back into place and buttoned it up, then checked the other side just to be sure (it was fine). The great thing about full floating axles is that they don't really put much stress on any of the components, so I doubt I did any damage. There wasn't even any vibration because the wheel still spins true even if the bearings are loose. I'm still glad I caught it, obviously.

 

It's 90 degrees. Heading out for one of my 20-mile test loops to see whether my repair worked and how the cooling system fares in some real heat.

I am seeing a nice trend here! Your detective work and efforts are more and more focusing on smaller and less significant things that just dial the car in a little bit better. May it continue to be so. 

[edinmass]

 

 A few years ago I had a similar whining noise coming from the front of the car while on a CCCA tour. Fixed it without tools or a jack. I just threw the wife out of the car and presto…….. no more whining!

[Steve9]

Congratulations on the easy fix Matt. It IS the nut holding the wheel!

[edinmass]

They always say it’s the nut behind the wheel causing all the problems………😉
 

In this particular case, it was a BIG nut. 🤔

Edited July 5, 2023 by edinmass (see edit history)

[Zimm63]

6 minutes ago, edinmass said:

They always say it’s the nut behind the wheel causing all the problems………😉
 

In this particular case, it was a BIG nut. 🤔

I had an IT guy who used to tell users that "the problem is between the keyboard and the chair"  fairly often.  Got away with it too.  

 

 

[Matt Harwood]

Took my 20-mile test drive route without incident. The noise is cured, so that's one good thing. It's 90 degrees, so I figured it would be a very good stress test. Car ran at 185 most of the time, inching up to 190 during long uphilll pulls but it always cooled off somewhat, which I take as a good sign. During the 3-minute idle period it inched up almost to 200, but it didn't make me nervous and quickly cooled off to 185 again once I was moving (I am going to add another column to note the temperature at a nearby red light which is about a mile from the cul-de-sac where I idle for 3 minutes, which should indicate how well it cools off after a heat soak). I'm pretty pleased with this result, which gives me a lot more confidence in the car even when the weather is hot. 

 

 

That chin pan really seems to be making a difference. I'm glad I tackled that project. 100% worth it. The car is running noticeably cooler and recovering better than ever before.

 

Sadly, it's still leaking coolant, so that's next up--cure that drip.

 

 

Edited July 6, 2023 by Matt Harwood (see edit history)

[Matt Harwood]

OK, attacked the hose leak again. New rubber hose, some Indian Head gasket shellac, new hose clamps, but...

 

 

The problem is the water pump inlet, which, for some reason, is conical. Every time I tighten the hose clamp, it tends to push the hose off the inlet. Even with the gasket shellac being sticky, it wanted to slide off. So I only snugged it and braced it in place with a wood block, and we'll see if the stuff sets up properly. I'm not particularly optimistic about my chances of success anymore. It's just a bad design.

We'll find out tomorrow or, more likely, Saturday.

[Stude Light]

2 hours ago, Matt Harwood said:

OK, attacked the hose leak again. New rubber hose, some Indian Head gasket shellac, new hose clamps, but...

 

 

The problem is the water pump inlet, which, for some reason, is conical. Every time I tighten the hose clamp, it tends to push the hose off the inlet. Even with the gasket shellac being sticky, it wanted to slide off. So I only snugged it and braced it in place with a wood block, and we'll see if the stuff sets up properly. I'm not particularly optimistic about my chances of success anymore. It's just a bad design.

We'll find out tomorrow or, more likely, Saturday.

What I’ve had to do on some cars is just to use something like JB Weld and sand and reform the hose inlet or outlet. It usually involves removing it, sanding or sandblasting to bare, build up with one or more layers (sanding between) and then filing/sanding straight and round. I’ve done this numerous times for severe rust pitting but also for the taper issue you have. Yes, a bit time consuming but never had one fail. 

 

[edinmass]

Smart ass and asinine comment withheld to prevent suspension and penalty points…..but it’s killing me.

[Matt Harwood]

Still leaking. I'm out of ideas. Nothing I do changes anything--the drip is pretty much exactly the same every time. A drip every 2-3 seconds. Gasket shellac and a rubber hose didn't change anything. Not sure what to do next.

 

 

 

I also did a little tuning, as I seemed to have lost that low-speed pull that it had early in the tuning process. It was getting a little jerky below about 10 MPH. I assumed that was because reducing dwell has the net effect of advancing the timing. I tried to use my timing light, but the markings on the flywheel were all but invisible--I sure wish I had marked them somehow when I had it apart. So I adjusted the timing by ear and ended up retarding the distributor a few degrees. The idle smoothed out a bit and the low-speed smoothness returned. Good.

 

On the flip side, there's still a bit of a surge to the idle. It's subtle, but it's consistent. And the exhaust is still congested-sounding. Not sure what else there is to adjust to help in those areas. Mine should sound as good as this one:

 

 

Took it for a test drive and booted it up to about 55 MPH where it was pretty happy--I was surprised that it quieted down and didn't seem busy at all. That was the fastest I've run it yet. It took full throttle to get it there, so that's something else I have to check--how to adjust the throttle pedal. Right now I think the thick carpet, pad, and insulation is only allowing the throttle to open about 80%. There has to be an adjustment of some kind in there, right? Right?

 

Oh, and I spent two hours trying to get the sidemounts to stop rattling. Unsuccessfully. What the heck does it take?

 

Went home.

[alsancle]

Matt, I used strips of rubber taped to the spare tire in strategic places on my 500 K.  More like that squishy, foam stuff than rubber.

[keiser31]

1 hour ago, alsancle said:

Matt, I used strips of rubber taped to the spare tire in strategic places on my 500 K.  More like that squishy, foam stuff than rubber.

I was gonna suggest those clear, vinyl pads/bumpers you get from Home Depot that are sticky on one side. They come in dots and squares and are small enough to not be obtrusive.

[alsancle]

2 hours ago, keiser31 said:

I was gonna suggest those clear, vinyl pads/bumpers you get from Home Depot that are sticky on one side. They come in dots and squares and are small enough to not be obtrusive.

Exactly. I also used them in the wheel well.

[AB-Buff]

Are you sure it’s not your water pump leaking around the seal. It seems that if it’s the same every time that it could be something different than what you’re looking at. Maybe you need to snug that nut down just a little bit

[AB-Buff]

On your side mount mount do you have air in your tires? I put 35 pounds in mine. If they’re low or no air at all, they will move around a bit.

[Matt Harwood]

20 hours ago, AB-Buff said:

Are you sure it’s not your water pump leaking around the seal. It seems that if it’s the same every time that it could be something different than what you’re looking at. Maybe you need to snug that nut down just a little bit

 

Had Melanie drive the car for another trip around our 20-mile test loop and when we got back, sure enough, it was dripping. I opened the hood this time and goddamnit, you were right, Lynn. Drip... drip... drip from the water pump. A 1/8 turn of the packing nut and it stopped. Problem solved (I hope). Thank you for opening my eyes to an alternative before I went insane!

 

Next steps will be to remove the restrictors and repeat my test loop a few times and see if cooling changes. Once I have a good view of what's going on (and I'm convinced that the leak is fixed) I plan to fill it with a 70/30 mix of purified water and anti-freeze, plus some No-Rosion. Two weeks from now I'm planning to drive it to a show in Columbus which is 140 miles each way, so I'd like to have all this dialed-in by then.

 

Speaking of insane, I also spent another few hours wrestling with the driver's side sidemount cover. I tried using some U-channel window gasket but it just wouldn't stay put on the rim of the face piece, and I didn't want to glue it. I tried taping it in place but when I worked the tread cover into place it all came apart. A lot of wasted time for nothing.

 

 

Tried using this window gasket material

but it wouldn't stay put long enough for me

to install the tread cover. Bah.

 

As a last resort I deflated the tire and used a tie-down strap to pull the tread cover as tight as I possibly could, then safety wired the ends to hold them tight. Reinflating the tire to 50 PSI and removing the strap seemed to tighten things up. I eased it into place and installed the mounting hardware. It still rubs the inside of the fender well at the outer edge, but I can't find a way to adjust it--I'd like to rotate the whole assembly a few degrees so it sits in the middle of the well, but it doesn't seem to do that. So I simply shoved some heavy foam rubber in there to keep things from rubbing and damaging the paint.

 

A combination of brute force and a

deflated tire got the cover as tight

as it can possibly be.

 

Another brief test drive revealed that it's pretty quiet. Not perfect, but not loose and not as squeaky as before. I think I'm just going to have to live with it. Now I have to tackle the passenger side...

 

I wonder if part of the problem is that the tires in the sidemounts are a half-size smaller than the road tires (700-17 vs. 750-17). The metal covers are pretty loose on the tire. I wonder if bigger tires would help? I still have my old Denmans that I removed in favor of the blackwalls--should I risk mounting them on the wheels (and likely destroying the current tires) to see if the covers fit a little more tightly? Or am I correct in assuming that someone long ago installed the slightly smaller tires for a good reason? Hmmm...

 

[alsancle]

Matt,  you should be able to make them dead quiet with enough foam.

Of course,  you are screwed if you need one of the spares.   Does your car have a provision for a spare in the trunk too?  Are 35 Packard does which is fortunate because the sidemounts are not comming off.

[AB-Buff]

Matt, if my water pump look like that, I think I would pay more attention to it, maybe service it a couple of times a day. 😳😂

[Matt Harwood]

Drove the Lincoln to a semi-local cruise night tonight, about 20 miles away down by the river in Akron. It's actually a pretty big turn-out with several hundred cars on the streets in the middle of the downtown area, so it's a nice location. Melanie drove the Audi Ute to take our son to driver's ed (finally!) and met me there. The drive was through varying conditions in 85 degree weather, with the last 25% being downtown traffic at 5:30 on a Monday. Another good stress test. Temperature inched up to about 195 but never got scary. I am learning to relax and trust the car. It will take time, but I'm getting there.

 

 

 

The Lincoln was a big hit. With the hood open, there was a steady stream of people stopping to have a look, many of whom did a double-take when they saw the shiny aluminum heads. I had several good conversations, including explaining to one guy that my wife drives it and power steering isn't really something I "need to add" to make "these cars" "usable." For the most part everyone was excited to see it, which was very rewarding. I also like explaining to people that I drove it there and that it's usable as a car, not just static art. I tried to be a good ambassador for the pre-war hobby and I think I had some people go home with knowledge that they didn't have before. On the way out, a few guys were impressed with how quickly and easily it started--I'm pretty proud of that. First time, every time.

 

Melanie joined me after dropping Cody off at the school, then we had dinner at a local Mexican restaurant. By the time we got back to the cars, the party was breaking up. Melanie went to wait for Cody while I headed home. The drive home was the best drive I've had yet in this car. Weather was pleasant at about 75 degrees, traffic was light, and the lights were in my favor. I took a few detours just because I was enjoying the drive. A few cool spots in the hills and valleys were really nice and the car stayed at about 175 all the way home. I stopped for gas and pumped 13 gallons after about 100 miles of driving--an improvement to almost 8 MPG! A very good performance that really did a lot for my confidence.

 

And no drip when I parked it. Woo hoo!

[edinmass]

Matt……in 700 miles do you know what you will have? A sorted and reliable pre war multi cylinder car (big boy toy) that is fun, reliable, and enjoyable. 
 

PS- they are NEVER done. 👍👍👍

[38Buick 80C]

It's good to hear you enjoying the car Matt!!

[Terry Harper]

Matt,

 

I am so glad that you and your family have it out and about and are enjoying it and getting relaxed and comfortable with it. You have taken what was(unfortunately) a pig slathered with lipstick and transformed into a real beauty that you and your family can enjoy and share with others.  Well done!

[EmTee]

11 hours ago, Matt Harwood said:

I had several good conversations, including explaining to one guy that my wife drives it and power steering isn't really something I "need to add" to make "these cars" "usable."

That's something that I mention frequently to people who stop by to talk to me about my '38 Century.  I tell them how easy it is to drive -- even with no power steering, no power brakes and manual transmission.  I can readily imagine women driving around in these cars at the time with no problem whatsoever.

[dalef62]

Run the wheels off of that sweet Linclon Matt!  Enjoy the fruits of your labor!

[Matt Harwood]

Pulled the restrictors from the upper radiator hoses and drove the test loop again. It's too early to draw any conclusions but my gut says the restrictors work. It was 84 degrees but the car ran at 190, hotter than the last few times I've driven it, including last night which was about the same temperature. I need more data to verify my impressions, of course, but the car didn't feel the same out on the road. 

 

Doing some quick arithmetic, it looks like the average temperature with the restrictors, across all temperature ranges, was about 180 degrees while today's one-day average was 186. Unfortunately, I don't have a direct apples-to-apples comparison since none of my previous drives were on an 84-degree day. So we'll keep trying and see what conclusions we can draw with a bigger cross-section of information and some additional averages without the restrictors.

 

Is this stupid? I can't tell anymore. At least I'm putting miles on the car, which continues to drive quite well.

 

[m-mman]

24 minutes ago, Matt Harwood said:

Is this stupid? I can't tell anymore. At least I'm putting miles on the car, which continues to drive quite well

Hummmmm……Ed always says you should drive it like you stole it.  

I wonder how many thieves keep spread sheets?  🤔

 

But you are correct, you are putting miles on it.  🤓

[EmTee]

Since you're in the middle of the experiment you can't just stop now -- I want to wait for all of the data! 

 

Question: Where in the cooling system is the temperature sensor located?

[Matt Harwood]

39 minutes ago, EmTee said:

Question: Where in the cooling system is the temperature sensor located?

 

I have the aftermarket gauge bulb installed in the original gauge bulb location right at the top of the radiator filler neck where the upper hoses attach. It's probably the hottest point in the system, so I assume those temperatures are a "worst case" situation. 

 

 

I also have the factory gauge (which is just a red liquid tube with no real markings) connected to one of the manifolds that connect the water pump output to the cylinder blocks. It's more or less getting water directly from the water pump, so it should be a little cooler. The gauge reads about 3/4 to the top almost all the time, except when it's cold, so I don't place a lot of faith in it. I just didn't want a dead gauge in the dash. 

 

  

[TexRiv_63]

18 hours ago, Matt Harwood said:

 

 

I also have the factory gauge (which is just a red liquid tube with no real markings) connected to one of the manifolds that connect the water pump output to the cylinder blocks. It's more or less getting water directly from the water pump, so it should be a little cooler. The gauge reads about 3/4 to the top almost all the time, except when it's cold, so I don't place a lot of faith in it. I just didn't want a dead gauge in the dash. 

 

 

Does the factory gauge ever show it as borderline overheating? I bet it may be more accurate than you think.

[Matt Harwood]

On 7/12/2023 at 3:49 PM, TexRiv_63 said:

Does the factory gauge ever show it as borderline overheating? I bet it may be more accurate than you think.

No, never. It starts at 0 and goes to 3/4 of the scale pretty quickly, then stays there. Not sure it's particularly sensitive or accurate.

 

 

I really didn't feel like doing anything on the car today, but the ambient temperature was 74 degrees, which would give me an apples-to-apples comparison with the restrictors. So I took it for a drive. Here are the results:

 

 

So it runs a little warmer (3°?) without the restrictors, but I'd also guess that the difference is within whatever margin of error I'm working with. Meh. I'll try a few more drives and see what happens. Ultimately what this has shown me is that I don't need to worry about it running hot. It's totally fine.

 

This weekend's project is sealing up the roof insert, which is a little weathered. If we're driving it to Columbus next weekend, it needs to be able to survive the rain...

 

 

Edited July 14, 2023 by Matt Harwood (see edit history)

[EmTee]

14 hours ago, Matt Harwood said:

...the difference is within whatever margin of error I'm working with.

Interesting - I'd keep collect a bit more data just to be sure, but unless something changes that tells me that the restrictors are not the biggest restriction in the system.