Letter from the "aaca" museum

[RAH]

McHinson and Steve,

I'm sorry, but my observation of this mess is from an outsiders point of view. I am not personally acquainted with any members of either Board in question or the social cliques. My experience with Boards in general is that egocentric dictatorial attitudes can sometimes overwhelm logic or common sense with 'My way or the hiway' responses. Maybe it's time for both sides to step back and take a breather to reflect on what is ultimately best for the AACA and its members. And all the 'Armchair Quarterbacks' need to let the play go on and quit the second guessing!. Remember there are always two sides to any conflict! And yes I have accumulated and absorbed those 24 pages of data. All I can say now is Good Luck. 

Edited March 29, 2018 by RAH
Mis typed proper name sorry (see edit history)

[Frantz]

20 hours ago, 46 woodie said:

I wonder how much of the general public, other than A.A.C.A. members, know of our situation. Perhaps some sort of disclaimer in the programs of each A.A.C.A. meet and particularly the Hershey Directory. Something  like, "The A.A.C.A. is not affiliated with the AACA Museum". I know several of my non member friends had no idea what was happening and agreed not to visit the museum in the future. 

They don't know, they really don't care about the letters AACA. Be it an unofficial voice or sanctioned, the club gets far more advertising out of the museum than vice versa. Lets be honest... when we travel to a new city we search for car museum, not AACA club. As I've said before, so long as the mission of the museum remains the same, I have to ask what your purpose of giving money/cars was? Did you do it just for the prestige of it being the AACA museum, or did you want people to enjoy it?

The general public really couldn't care less. Most people who come to the museum aren't club members. The bigger deal we (the club) make, the worst the we will look (they aren't going to spend time investing themselves in the drama).

So what's the point? What's gained in a public separation? Who is hurt by the letters? Lots of organizations carry the names of their founders and now have little/nothing to do with the parent company (Ford Foundation comes quickly to mind). I don't like the tone of the letters coming from the museum, but I don't think the club wins anything by winning this fight either.

You know who does win? The lawyers on both sides. They have zero interest in peaceful agreement. Our society likes to let us blame the advice of an attorney for different things. They want a court battle, so how sound is this advice for the purpose of unity and finding a solution? Why not get both sides to man up and sit down in a public forum and talk it out like men and women?

[vermontboy]

19 minutes ago, Frantz said:

"Why not get both sides to man up and sit down in a public forum and talk it out like men and women? "

 

From what I have read that has been done as much as practicable ad infinitum. While I understand your point the issues seem to go substantially beyond the use of the name at this point in time. The club is being told to restrict their activities (display of cars in our own building for example). If I am missing something here jump in and correct me. It appears that the issue goes substantially beyond the name.

[MCHinson]

I uderstand why club members who live near the museum might be fans of the museum.  They can visit and they can take friends and family who are visiting with them on vacation The average AACA member gets very little from the museum. The average AACA member might visit once a year while in Hershey for the fall meet. I used to do that. Unless something changes about the way the museum leadership treats the club, I will never go there again.

 

The museum has received the majority of its cars, other artifacts, and cash from members of the club. I am sure that they hope to continue to receive donations from all of those club members all over the world. I wonder how many AACA members have wills with donations planned to the museum, because they thought they were helping support their favorite club? I think the museum wants to continue to receive donations from those thousands of members who have donated to the museum in the past and continue to receive the benefits of the club's goodwill as those wills get opened up and read in the future. 

 

The club's leadership has gone above and beyond in attempting to come to a reasonable working relationship with the museum. The museum's board has not done the same. Many years of trying to work out various deals failed.

 

It is a shame that the AACA folks who started the museum did not do a better job of writing the original bylaws. They relied on the good intentions of the folks who were running the museum at the start and did not pay attention to the small details of the documents when the museum was founded. It is sad that it has come to this point. 

[R W Burgess]

2 hours ago, vermontboy said:

 

From what I have read that has been done as much as practicable ad infinitum. While I understand your point the issues seem to go substantially beyond the use of the name at this point in time. The club is being told to restrict their activities (display of cars in our own building for example). If I am missing something here jump in and correct me. It appears that the issue goes substantially beyond the name.

*

*

Guys, what is being overlooked here is that AACA needed a new Library facility. We are being overcome with more additional literature donations, plus a few vehicles. We did our best to work with the Museum to build a new wing on the highway side at their location. After many, many, meetings, it became obvious that we would not be able to work together, as the Museum was overbearing in almost all issues. We could not wait any longer. Meanwhile in the background we were looking for another place to build or to remodel for our use. That building has been found. It is REALLY special. The entire Board is very pleased at this. We have moved on.......End of Story!

[Grimy]

2 hours ago, MCHinson said:

The museum has received the majority of its cars, other artifacts, and cash from members of the club. I am sure that they hope to continue to receive donations from all of those club members all over the world. I wonder how many AACA members have wills with donations planned to the museum, because they thought they were helping support their favorite club? I think the museum wants to continue to receive donations from those thousands of members who have donated to the museum in the past and continue to receive the benefits of the club's goodwill as those wills get opened up and read in the future.

 

And this is most likely why the museum (intentional lower case M) is so insistent on retaining "AACA" in its name. The recent talk about the museum's alleged claim to our logo concerns me the most. I believe that the club needs to retain strong intellectual property counsel to solidify its possibly precarious claim to that logo.

[Bob Hill]

"People, I just want to say, you know, can we all get along? Can we get along? Can we stop making it, making it horrible for the older people and the kids? … It’s just not right. It’s not right. It’s not, it’s not going to change anything. We’ll, we’ll get our justice … Please, we can get along here. We all can get along. I mean, we’re all stuck here for a while. Let’s try to work it out. Let’s try to beat it. Let’s try to beat it. Let’s try to work it out."

 

- Rodney King, May 1, 1992

 

: )

[Frantz]

Here's the thing though. If any of you didn't know about any of this, and you visited the museum (for free, since you're an AACA member), you'd have a really great experience! You'd have a marvelous collection of cars with a pretty steady turnover. You have a volunteer tour staff that loves cars and enjoys sharing what we can with our guests. You'd really walk away saying "wow, this is one of the best car museums I've ever been in". I think that's being overlooked in all this. I think we're trying to throw the baby out with the bathwater here. From the public level, there isn't anything fishy, underhanded, or power grabby going on. Oh no the regions room is gone. Great! That was a completely useless room that offered nothing to folks outside of the few regions that participated. It didn't even have a concise history of the club as a whole. Yeah I have a dog in both games here, but I'm not important anywhere I go. What I want is the best possible experiences, and frankly, the museum is offering that and so is the club. The only thing that sucks is this whole fight, which I really am not interested in picking sides on. The reason I keep coming to the defense of the museum is simple though, it still is performing its founding mission, and doing so quite well. I really could'nt care less who controls it, or what it's called. The only change is if the club completely pulls the name, I have zero reason to talk about the club at the museum with our guests. In the end, my personal goal is to be that crazy old volunteer who knows way too much and argues with all the museum signs while giving guests memories and information to keep for a lifetime. I simply figure I have to start young to gain that sort of knowledge when I was born during the early Reagan years. So I see the fight, completely regardless of who is right, as being stupid and against the intent of both parties.

Edited March 30, 2018 by Frantz (see edit history)

[trimacar]

1 hour ago, Frantz said:

You'd really walk away saying "wow, this is one of the best car museums I've ever been in".

 

Yes, and what sticks in the craw of many, and possibly the majority, of the AACA Club members is the fact that the CLUB birthed the museum, and the support of the CLUB is what made the museum what it is today.  The museum wouldn't even EXIST if it weren't for the Club making it so.

 

No one's saying that it's not a good museum.  What we're saying is that, due to a number of people being elected to the museum board of directors that have or had no Club connection, the museum was basically, but legally I know, "stolen" from the Club.

 

Yes, it's always been a separate entity, for tax purposes.  However, it was always the intent that the Club and museum would merge at some point, and they were supposed to share the same goals.  Not the case now....

[Dynaflash8]

4 hours ago, Frantz said:

Here's the thing though. If any of you didn't know about any of this, and you visited the museum (for free, since you're an AACA member), you'd have a really great experience! You'd have a marvelous collection of cars with a pretty steady turnover. You have a volunteer tour staff that loves cars and enjoys sharing what we can with our guests. You'd really walk away saying "wow, this is one of the best car museums I've ever been in". I think that's being overlooked in all this. I think we're trying to throw the baby out with the bathwater here. From the public level, there isn't anything fishy, underhanded, or power grabby going on. Oh no the regions room is gone. Great! That was a completely useless room that offered nothing to folks outside of the few regions that participated. It didn't even have a concise history of the club as a whole. Yeah I have a dog in both games here, but I'm not important anywhere I go. What I want is the best possible experiences, and frankly, the museum is offering that and so is the club. The only thing that sucks is this whole fight, which I really am not interested in picking sides on. The reason I keep coming to the defense of the museum is simple though, it still is performing its founding mission, and doing so quite well. I really could'nt care less who controls it, or what it's called. The only change is if the club completely pulls the name, I have zero reason to talk about the club at the museum with our guests. In the end, my personal goal is to be that crazy old volunteer who knows way too much and argues with all the museum signs while giving guests memories and information to keep for a lifetime. I simply figure I have to start young to gain that sort of knowledge when I was born during the early Reagan years. So I see the fight, completely regardless of who is right, as being stupid and against the intent of both parties.

Where did all those great cars come from?  How did they get there?  For that matter who put the building there and paid for it?  How would you feel if somebody else came in and took over your house and called it theirs, a house that you sweated blood over building and paying for?  Come on, give me a break!  As for the Regions room;  We have or had, I can't remember, but I think about 400 Regions across the country.  There was a plaque on the wall that listed all who gave money....some a very large amount of money, to see the museum built.  Didn't those Regions deserve some credit?  Don't they and their members represent the people who built the place?  It was certainly a small area where the founding and history of the club was displayed and it is a great history that should be commemorated and remembered.  I worked Meet after Meet passing the hat at the banquet asking people to donate their money.  And for that, I see this.  The whole thing makes me sick to my stomach.  ....hmm, I think I'm getting mad just writing about it. 

Edited March 30, 2018 by Dynaflash8 (see edit history)

[old car fan]

I will always go to Hershey,will not go to the museum,never again,I will go to the Gilmore,great folks,,I will go to the AUBURN Cord,and my favorite is,have to wait

Edited March 31, 2018 by old car fan (see edit history)

[Dynaflash8]

1 hour ago, old car fan said:

I will always go to Hershey,will not go to the museum,never again,I will go to Michigan,great folks,,I will go to the AUBURN,or the Gilmore,and my favorite is,have to wait

Good for you.  Gilmore huh?  Guess you are a member of CCCA, and now so am I.  Glad to know you.  EDB

[Lahti35]

On ‎3‎/‎27‎/‎2018 at 6:22 PM, AnniesSS said:

It's really so sad how this has come down  All because of money... it's always about money.  

 

Its the world we live in... i'll never understand it.

 

Its also why i'll never donate anything to a museum. I appreciate seeing all the stuff at museums but after working at one for a time and seeing current issues such as the one in this thread, it's a dicey proposition.  

[JFranklin]

If museums don't get donations you won't have them around to enjoy, think about it.

[oldcarfudd]

There are ways to lend your car to a museum for display, without giving up ownership.  If the museum doesn't comply with the terms of the loan, the car can come back to the owner, or to some sort of trustee, for further disposition by the owner or the terms of the trust.

 

I don't have a dog in this fight, but one thing interests me:  What happened to all those regional club artifacts?  If the museum thought it owned them, it could continue to display them (apparently not what was done), put them into storage (easy enough to say so if that's what happened), sold them (to whom?  They have no cash value except to the donating regions or to a sign hoarder), given them away (again, to whom?), or chucked them in a dumpster (easy to do, but not very nice).  If the museum thought the donating regions still owned them, it could have returned them when they were of no further value as display items.  In any event, the question of their disposition would be easy to answer.  So, why hasn't it been?

[John_S_in_Penna]

2 hours ago, JFranklin said:

If museums don't get donations you won't have them around to enjoy, think about it.

 

One might say that the Hershey car show, with over 1200 cars, 

is a dozen times better than a car museum.  Not only are many

interesting cars displayed, but often their owners aren't far away,

and you can ask questions of someone who knows the car well.

 

It occurs only once a year, but then again, many AACA members

could get to the museum only once a year anyway.

 

I still appreciate what the AACA Museum originally stood for,

and hope that justice prevails for the club.

 

Edited March 31, 2018 by John_S_in_Penna (see edit history)

[RAH]

O.K. If I may continue as an unbiased observer several points seem ridiculously obvious but apparently myopically not so to some. That 'Antique Automobile Museum at Hershey' seems reluctant to join with the AACA 'officially' but still desires the assumed association for perceived benefits. Also it has been alluded to here that the AACA corporate is not interested in the burden of operating or maintaining a First Class Museum. That said, since the Museum seems to want to operate on its own 2 feet so be it! Here is a fact Either the Museum IS associated with the AACA OR it is, as I suspect, NOT so associated. Obviously it cannot have it both ways! If it is NOT then the only logical thing would be for the AACA Board to draft a legal "Cease and Desist" document to that 'Antique Automobile Museum at Hershey' to quit immediately the use of the letters 'AACA' or the phrase 'Antique Automobile Club Of America' with the exception in a mandated statement "NOT associated with the Antique Automobile Club of America" in any future Museum correspondence to the general public or anyone else. Further admonish that Museum to quit immediately the use of copyrighted logos, further use of intellectual property in the form of the AACA website, and to surrender any copies of the AACA membership database. Problem Solved! Second there should be a simple uncomplicated statement in the AACA news to enlighten the general membership that the 'Antique Automobile Museum at Hershey' is NOT associated with the Antique Automobile Club of America and any donations to said museum are NOT to be considered donating to the AACA. So, continue to support both organizations at your pleasure and simply understand they are separate entities! And Let the corporate lawyers on both sides take a rest. Any time lawyers are involved things get way too complicated and usually makes things worse! Yes, my observation. Don't you all wish it was just as simple as that?

[trimacar]

RAH, I respect your viewpoint as an "unbiased observer", but you're missing a lot of the facts.

26 minutes ago, RAH said:

seems reluctant to join with the AACA

This is a total misunderstanding of what has transpired.

 

The AACA Club started the museum, with fundraising and building funds and member donations, and the museum has grown accordingly. Millions have come from the Club and the Club members.  Hell, I think I even bought a brick or two.

 

To keep the IRS happy, the museum was started as a separate tax exempt entity, which at the time, the Club was not. This is common with clubs and museums, research the Gilmore Partner museums and you may understand.

 

The intent, all along, was to merge the Club and museum at some point. Once the Club had a tax exempt status through the Library, the effort was made to merge.  At that point, the board of directors of the museum thought the AACA Club should have no part of their "success", so the "split" took place.  It all came down to people on the boards not agreeing to long term goals, and to some egos involved (mainly on the museum BOD from my sources, I know some details but can't go into them).

 

There is no "AACA Corporate".  There's the AACA Club, with it's members and board of directors.  The desire was to meld the Club and museum, once the Club had the Library and the associated tax exempt status.

 

It's much more complicated than a simple "fix", as you state, this is far beyond that, that's been tried and there's no meeting of minds with the museum board of directors.  It's a typical case of the child thinking they're far superior to their parents......

[Frantz]

I don't see the problem with the Museum using the AACA name at all. As I pointed out, there is precedence for an organization to be named after the group the founded it but no long having any ties to the founding group. I used the Ford foundation as an example. Founded by members of the Ford family but it's a completely separate entity with no formal ties. Other than ego, there is no harm in the museum using the name, and I genuinely believe the club gets more out of this than the museum does. Johny Q Public doesn't know or care that the club exists, but the public in the Hershey area knows of the museum. It provides a talking point. I do understand the whole "they stole it from us" mindset, but I honestly can't see past that being an ego issue, because again, the museum is still doing what the club founded it to do correct? The issues are all personality based from what I can tell. There are also still long term solutions to all this, but the deeper the wedge, the harder that will be to make happen.

[trimacar]

I disagree.  There would always be confusion, some people thinking they're helping the Club by donating time, money, cars to the museum.  A while back the museum wanted to change the name,  eliminating AACA since those letters mean nothing to the general public.  Now, the museum wants to not only use that designation, but limit the Club's use of it.  It's a power/ego thing on the part of the museum board of directors all the way.

 

The Club helped the museum a heck of a lot more than the museum has ever, or will ever, help the Club, and the Club got slapped in the face for it.  

[ejboyd5]

"What difference – at this point, what difference does it make?"

[Doug Novak]

All being said I think we must recall that the Museum's Response to the Club's requests,  pertaining to the AACA Name issue which is being side tracked by the Museum while the Museum is now telling us it has some authority, and control, as to what the Club can do with our new HQ Building.  Does the Museum really feel they can restrict and limit our operation, can they? Limit displays, limit the Cars at the Club HQ? Is this a negotiation point they are creating to prolong the real issue? 

Edited April 2, 2018 by Doug Novak (see edit history)

[76 Caddy]

Newbie here (to AACA, not old car hobby).  Joined AACA in June of 2016 and went to my first Hershey and the museum that October.  Thoroughly enjoyed Hershey, not so much the museum.  When I pulled in and saw the huge building I thought there would be lots of vehicles to see...NOT.  I spent more time in the "basement" looking at those cars and the buses.  I did get see Betty White's Seville.  Sorry, but I was very disappointed in the museum and have no desire to return.  I will be planning a return trip to Hershey!

 

Tim

[trimacar]

I realize it's just a snapshot, but there's an AACA museum site on Facebook.

 

They recently posted about an auction coming up at the museum.

 

I posted a comment stating that everyone should be aware, and the museum should point out, that this auction is not associated with, nor benefits in any way, the AACA Club.

 

The comment was promptly deleted by the museum moderators.  They have no desire to publicize the separation, as they probably are still receiving donations from people thinking the Club benefits.

[John_S_in_Penna]

20 hours ago, trimacar said:

I posted a comment stating that everyone should be aware, and the museum should point out,

that this auction is not associated with, nor benefits in any way, the AACA Club.

 

The comment was promptly deleted by the museum moderators.  They have no desire to publicize the separation, as they probably are still receiving donations from people thinking the Club benefits.

 

Wow, that speaks volumes.  How have so many good people

at the museum been turned away from doing right?

I'll never be persuaded to dislike my fellow car-fans over there,

but I will always stand firmly for right, and against wrong.

Edited April 6, 2018 by John_S_in_Penna (see edit history)

[Doug Novak]

Not surprised as it gets right back to the on going problem. For the Museum it would publicly hint that they are not part of the AACA Club, and for the Club it says the donated  items, if from Club members, are sold to only benefit the Museum. 

[mike6024]

5 hours ago, trimacar said:

The comment was promptly deleted by the museum moderators. 

 

I posted a copy of the Museum letter on their FB page, as a comment under some other topic.

 

[Joe in Canada]

I left a post questioning why is AACA having two spring swap meets and are they going to have two fall meets. Then it prompts that the post has to be approved first. Censorship I guess.

Edited April 5, 2018 by Joe in Canada (see edit history)

[old car fan]

No one will prevail but the lawyer s

[46 woodie]

I spent the last week in Washington, D.C.. When I went thru the Lincoln Memorial I couldn't help but notice a famous quote by Abraham Lincoln, "A House Divided Against Itself Cannot Stand. Thought it apropos.

[ted sweet]

all this is doing is damaging the  hobby