Guest fredstr Posted January 28, 2017 Share Posted January 28, 2017 Hello everyone! I am seeking assistance from people working in the automotive industry. I'm a mba student from the University of Sherbrooke in Canada and we're doing a marketing project on wheel weights (yes, wheel weights!)... As part of our research project, we're doing a survey for which we hope to get as many people as possible answering, from all regions of the world... Anyone who has time to answer 10 questions, very quickly, we would greatly appreciate! https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/CZBSM6H Thank you so much! Fred Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
61polara Posted January 28, 2017 Share Posted January 28, 2017 I looked at your survey but can't answer, because you haven't specified the wheel. The answers will be different based on its material and style. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest fredstr Posted January 28, 2017 Share Posted January 28, 2017 Thanks for responding 61polara, that's an interesting comment... Obviously we are not experts in the matter ;-) We were interested in the material used for the weight (leed vs steel) more than the type of wheel weights (sticked vs clipped), so what you are saying is that the choice of material could be influenced by the type of wheel independently from the clip vs sticked decision? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike6024 Posted January 28, 2017 Share Posted January 28, 2017 I started taking the survey then realized it was not for consumers so I aborted. Only two types i have ever had is clip-on lead, and lead with adhesive double stick tape on the back. Clip-on lead damages alloy wheel lips so they need stick-on. When recently taking in some newly repainted steel wheels for new tire mounting I wa asked whether I wanted clip-on or stick-on. I chose clip-on because they are less likely to fall off. The stick-on might not adhere to fresh paint well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobg1951chevy Posted January 28, 2017 Share Posted January 28, 2017 Yes, the survey is null and void, without knowing what type of wheel you are referring to .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
60FlatTop Posted January 28, 2017 Share Posted January 28, 2017 Those look like questions put together by a committee of people whom don't know anything about wheel weighs. Did your instructor tell you a skilled polster can pole anything, even if they don't know about it? Ummmm, adhesive vs, clipped might be more appropriate for an MBA than sticked. Just for that extra bit of polish. Bernie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike6024 Posted January 28, 2017 Share Posted January 28, 2017 Yes the survey has nothing what-so-ever to do with the attachment method, be it clip or adhesive. It has only to do with the material of the weight itself, be it lead, zinc, steel, or plastic with steel. And a very main concern is do you put a high priority on the environmental aspect of it, specifically :Environment friendly materials (lead free). Or do you not care one wit about the environment and the poison lead presents, and go with lead because it is more readily available, cheaper, or looks better (aesthetics). This may be nothing more than gathering information for a marketing statistics exercise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Bond Posted January 28, 2017 Share Posted January 28, 2017 Ah, so the premise could be that lead weights damage the environment? I suspect lead has always been the preference because of it's weight. Ounce-for ounce you can apply fewer, smaller, heavier weights using lead. Actually I've never seen a wheel weight made from anything except lead. I have both attachment styles on my cars, stick-on for the wire wheels on our MGTC and clip on for the other cars. I've also seen lead wrapping on spokes used to help balance them. It does seem to be a pretty obscure topic for a MBA and I'd sure like to know what the objective really is. Terry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest fredstr Posted January 28, 2017 Share Posted January 28, 2017 1 hour ago, mike6024 said: Yes the survey has nothing what-so-ever to do with the attachment method, be it clip or adhesive. It has only to do with the material of the weight itself, be it lead, zinc, steel, or plastic with steel. And a very main concern is do you put a high priority on the environmental aspect of it, specifically :Environment friendly materials (lead free). Or do you not care one wit about the environment and the poison lead presents, and go with lead because it is more readily available, cheaper, or looks better (aesthetics). This may be nothing more than gathering information for a marketing statistics exercise. Yes, Mike nailed it... the survey has nothing to do with the attachment method and everything to do with the material used, the toxicity of lead vs the corrosive damage that zinc and steel can have on the wheel over time and the unproven characteristics of plastic. we know nothing about wheel weights or mechanic whatsoever, I work in IT and the rest of my team work in the finance industry... that why we chose the route of enthousiasts forums, so we can have the discussion and learn about what's important to the actual specialists using these things versus the impact of the material... this topic was given to us to take us out of our zone of comfort, it's easy to do a marketing project on Apple products, but something as specific and boring as wheel weights takes us somewhere else and forces us to learn and think outside the box if they survey is not representative, perhaps could you help us understand what is important to you guys in words on this thread ? Thanks for your input and feedback it's very helpful cheers Fred Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
60FlatTop Posted January 29, 2017 Share Posted January 29, 2017 If I get locked in that room with the boxes spread all around, just so you know; I'm not sharing the banana with the IT guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Schramm Posted January 29, 2017 Share Posted January 29, 2017 Hate to tell you, but much of the type of material and what the material is coated which is defined by the either the car manufacturer or the wheel company. The attachment is usually defined by the type of wheel. I would guess that most tire places are going to buy wheel weights based on the above requirements and look for the low cost supplier that meets that criteria. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest fredstr Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 (edited) On 2017-01-29 at 0:23 PM, 60FlatTop said: If I get locked in that room with the boxes spread all around, just so you know; I'm not sharing the banana with the IT guy. So we are inquiring about wheel weights for a student project and out of the blue you bring up something about being locked in a room sharing a banana with another guy? Edited January 30, 2017 by fredstr (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F&J Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 On 1/28/2017 at 11:35 AM, fredstr said: We were interested in the material used for the weight You should try to do a web search on the "modern" alloy of the "lead weights". I believe the alloy was altered in modern history to reduce the "lead" for eco reasons. I have no idea if the alloy was changed for weights that fall off and pollute the soil? or if there was some risk from the weight shedding/leaching lead when the car is driven in rain or road salt? off topic on the attachment types: I do know from my other hobby, which is "metal detecting", that there sure are a lot of stick-on weights found in the soil. I do not recall finding many of the ones that are crimp type, in the soil. So, in my own world, the stick on is not really a great product, not because of toxic issues, but the fact that many weights do fall off as the adhesive just does not work as good as crimp types. I'm saying a lot of tires get out of balance due to those falling off. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidAU Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 Don't tell them about Glass Beads. That would probably put them into meltdown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesBulldogMiller55Buick Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 (edited) On 1/29/2017 at 11:23 AM, 60FlatTop said: If I get locked in that room with the boxes spread all around, just so you know; I'm not sharing the banana with the IT guy. "So we are inquiring about wheel weights for a student project and out of the blue you bring up something about being locked in a room sharing a banana with another guy?" He is NOT going to share... ;-) Edited January 31, 2017 by JamesBulldogMiller55Buick (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcdarrunt Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 Do any old truckers remember the hula hoop looking device with oil and ball bearings inside it that was supposed to balance big truck wheels? Advertised the hell out of it about the time Chinchillas were going to make you rich. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_S_in_Penna Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 On 1/28/2017 at 4:50 PM, mike6024 said: ... And a very main concern is do you put a high priority on the environmental aspect of it, specifically :Environment friendly materials (lead free). Or do you not care one wit about the environment and the poison lead presents... Mike was perceptive, and caught the premise behind the study! But Fred, your study must be impartial, objective, unbiased. You probably know that you can't go into a study with your own environmental ideas, and hope to get a true conclusion. Remember the tobacco companies' studies that found that smoking wasn't so bad after all? Medical studies are "double blind," so that conclusions reached aren't influenced (as much) by the researchers' thinking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ply33 Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 (edited) On 1/28/2017 at 2:33 PM, Terry Bond said: . . . Actually I've never seen a wheel weight made from anything except lead. . . The most recent box of wheel balancing weights I bought at my local CarQuest were not lead. Clerk behind the table said lead weights were no longer available. Might have been meaning "no longer available in California". Or maybe "no longer available in my store" because we ran out of stock and did not order more. Edited January 31, 2017 by ply33 (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taylormade Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 No, I had the same experience here in Illinois. They no longer make lead wheel weights due to "environmental concerns." The new junk doesn't have the weight of lead and you have to use far more weights to get good results. I've been buying up weights off eBay for the last few months so I can keep my wheels balanced correctly. They are still cheap and readily available - for now, at least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike6024 Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 (edited) Very interesting, I thought I had wheels balanced with lead clamp on weights less than a year ago. Need to go check them. But they have been banned in California at least since 2010. CALIFORNIA'S LEAD IN WHEEL WEIGHTS RESTRICTION As of January 1, 2010, California law prohibits the manufacture, sale, or installation of wheel weights containing more than 0.1% lead. A person violating this law may be penalized up to $2500 per day per violation. California Health and Safety Code Section 25215.6-7 1.6 million pounds fall off each year Lead contaminates and endangers the aquatic food web Roadway traffic grinds lead wheel weights into dust which contaminates the air Lead dust from wheel weights is washed into storm drains that connect to creeks, rivers, lakes and ocean Lead poses a danger to the environment because it can inhibit growth processes in plants and marine algae and can alter blood chemistry in fish, amphibians, and birds (U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service Contaminant Hazard Review Report No. 14). http://www.dtsc.ca.gov/PollutionPrevention/ToxicsInProducts/leadwheelweights.cfm http://articles.latimes.com/2008/aug/21/business/fi-wheels21 Not federal though at this point, only 7 states. Without EPA action, the management of lead vehicle component bans has fallen back onto states. California, Washington, Maine, Illinois, New York and Vermont were the first states to ban lead wheel weights. Minnesota, earlier this year, proposed a similar ban. “We manufacturers don’t all agree on everything but one thing we all agree on in the industry is that sitting where we sit right now, at 50% lead, 50% lead-free, is about the worst place we could be from a cost perspective,” http://www.tirereview.com/when-if-lead-is-banned/ The use of clip-on wheel weights is decreasing as original equipment manufacturers move toward more adhesive wheel weight automation at the factory level. “With this you are seeing a growth in flangeless rims and thus a growth in adhesive weight usage inside the aftermarket,” says Parker. St-Onge says that as the passenger car market trends toward more flangeless wheels, the need for clip-style wheel weights will decline. “We expect that adhesive or stick-on wheel weight use will continue to increase.” http://www.moderntiredealer.com/article/715315/wheel-weight-update-when-lead-is-banned-many-dealers-try-steel-first Edited January 31, 2017 by mike6024 (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GARY F Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 14 hours ago, mcdarrunt said: Do any old truckers remember the hula hoop looking device with oil and ball bearings inside it that was supposed to balance big truck wheels? Advertised the hell out of it about the time Chinchillas were going to make you rich. i am old but not a trucker but my father-in-law was. i remember those weights. i did driver T/T in the 60s part time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike6024 Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 Glass balancing beads for inside the tire. http://www.counteractbalancing.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ply33 Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 1 minute ago, mike6024 said: Glass balancing beads for inside the tire. http://www.counteractbalancing.com/ Do these actually work? Seems like if they did then they would be used by all auto manufacturers. . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F&J Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 22 hours ago, fredstr said: So we are inquiring about wheel weights for a student project One last comment I have: I did not read all those links posted above, about the legislation and "how" the wheel weight lead gets into the eco system,,,but: I'd bet there were some pretty lucrative studies ($$$) on that, but has anyone given a thought to maybe finding a better way to attach the weights? Sure, they limit the lead content to 10%, but if the weights stayed on, where would we be?..even better, right? I do Not have any recent experience of stick on weights, to see if the cheapie foam layer between two strips of adhesive has improved? The old weights I find, still have the adhesive, but the foam core is what rotted away. The wheels I see with missing weights still show full adhesive footprint, so it must be the foam deteriorating. Do a study on how to fix that problem, if a person really wants to further protect the eco-system.? . 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike6024 Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 Those clip on wheel weights I got less than a year ago must be zinc; they look too shiny to be lead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JACK M Posted February 1, 2017 Share Posted February 1, 2017 20 hours ago, ply33 said: Do these actually work? Seems like if they did then they would be used by all auto manufacturers. . . I bought a set of front tires for my motor home recently and they used the glass beads. No problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lump Posted February 1, 2017 Share Posted February 1, 2017 Funny thing about those glass beads... Back in the early 1970's I was a tire buster and balancing specialist at a Goodyear store. I balanced LOTS of kinds of wheels with both static and spin balancing. I got pretty good at it, even if I do say so myself. Anyway, now and then one of our stores would encounter a problem with customer tires that we just couldn't seem to balance right...or at least we couldn't get them to STAY balanced...not even for one day. After a while I learned to look for tricky little trouble-maker problems. One such trouble was water inside the inflated tire. You could spin balance it and get it perfect, but when the customer drove out the door that water would naturally shift around, and make the "heavy spot" be somewhere else. Whenever a mechanic was having trouble balancing a tire, they would often have me look at the problem (I eventually became a young service mgr). Often I would pop the tire off the rim first thing, just to see what was inside. I sometimes found hundreds of little black rubber balls (made up of unknown crud), but more often found water. We would then empty the tire and dry it carefully, then rebalance and the problem would be solved. So, if you put glass beads inside of a tire to "naturally" seek the "lightest" part of an unbalanced tire, wouldn't you get the same effect? It's been a long time ago, and technology has changed. But we always believed in getting any loose debris out from inside an inflated tire, or it would be impossible to balance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lump Posted February 1, 2017 Share Posted February 1, 2017 Back to the OP's topic... Clearly, we on this forum are not just car-savvy people, we are people who LOVE cars; especially very old cars. Those old cars are not driven often, and do not rack up miles like typical transportation daily-drivers. So we tend to feel negatively impacted by new regulations and laws which deprive us of products which we use for the restoration, preservation, and enjoyment of our antique vehicles. Not so long ago we were worried to death that our old engines would suffer mass failure when lead was removed from virtually all gasoline. Many chemical products like solvents, cleaners, etc, etc, are now gone. I could go on and on, but, suffice it to say that when a non-car enthusiast asks us for help with a survey about suitable materials for wheel weights, we cannot help but think that another non-car person is looking to prove that people like us should be deprived of another product which we need for our hobby...namely lead wheel weights. Naturally you can understand the lack of enthusiasm... Nevertheless, your questions seem to be about which materials work well for wheel weights. The answer is that NOTHING any of us have ever encountered weighs as much as lead in such a small, dense size. At least, nothing we can afford (gold is dense and heavy, but, well, you get the idea...) Just as duck hunters have been forced to switch to steel shot (which performs MUCH more poorly than lead shot), we will eventually switch if we must. But unless you and your colleagues can come up with something that is heavy, soft, malleable, and easy to use as lead, you should expect car-nuts like us to prefer our reliable and effective lead wheel weights for a while to come. No offense or rudeness intended. Just straight facts. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Restorer32 Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 I suspect the conclusions to this study have already been settled on, forget the science. Unless kids chew on wheel weights or birds swallow them, please tell us the danger chunks of lead in the form of wheel weights pose to the environment. Not like it ever degrades into the soil. I think wheel weights were never made of 100% lead. It would be too soft. Why not study the effects on the environment of the "dead" uranium that is sometimes used in golf clubs. All those uranium laden clubs being tossed into golf course ponds by frustrated duffers. Tsk, tsk, tsk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zimm63 Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 Not all clubs go in the ponds. I once got a prize at a tournament for most strokes taken without a club thrown. Only higher honor was most beers drank without falling over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JACK M Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 20 hours ago, lump said: Funny thing about those glass beads... Back in the early 1970's I was a tire buster and balancing specialist at a Goodyear store. I balanced LOTS of kinds of wheels with both static and spin balancing. I got pretty good at it, even if I do say so myself. Anyway, now and then one of our stores would encounter a problem with customer tires that we just couldn't seem to balance right...or at least we couldn't get them to STAY balanced...not even for one day. After a while I learned to look for tricky little trouble-maker problems. One such trouble was water inside the inflated tire. You could spin balance it and get it perfect, but when the customer drove out the door that water would naturally shift around, and make the "heavy spot" be somewhere else. Whenever a mechanic was having trouble balancing a tire, they would often have me look at the problem (I eventually became a young service mgr). Often I would pop the tire off the rim first thing, just to see what was inside. I sometimes found hundreds of little black rubber balls (made up of unknown crud), but more often found water. We would then empty the tire and dry it carefully, then rebalance and the problem would be solved. So, if you put glass beads inside of a tire to "naturally" seek the "lightest" part of an unbalanced tire, wouldn't you get the same effect? It's been a long time ago, and technology has changed. But we always believed in getting any loose debris out from inside an inflated tire, or it would be impossible to balance. These were my thoughts as well, but I have not had any problems. I bought the tires from a well established franchise here in the NW and they suggested the glass beads. I don't know if they recommend them for small tires, Mine are 22.5" wheels like on the semi trucks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Restorer32 Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 I grew up in Dad's tire and recapping shop. Guy came in one day complaining that a tire on his Cadillac had a bad vibration. I dismounted the tire and found a 14" Crescent wrench between the tire and the tube. It was one of those old heavy puncture "proof" tubes otherwise the tube would have blown very quickly. Another time I found a 6" chunk of wood inside an otherwise undamaged tube. Somehow it got in there during manufacture. Those little balls of crud you found were just that, little balls of crud that formed from leftover rubber dust, talc and other residue from tire manufacturing. At one time I had quite a collection of those little balls, Not sure technology has changed that much. Dad would reject new tires that took more than 3 oz to balance. Even the recaps he made seldom needed 3 oz. Last new tires I bought all 4 took more than 3 oz each. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trimacar Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 I sort of get a kick out of a discussion about lead weights being bad for the environment. How may hundreds of millions of lead weights have been used for the last 100 years, and are there really any ill effects we can document? I know, you don't chew the paint chips falling from the ceiling of an old house, but..... Reminds me of a project I worked on in Sacramento, you know, in California, where regulation runs rampant. I had some supports on the roof of an industrial building, to hold up pipe, and my specification was to fabricate from steel then galvanize. Building permit people rejected the plans, stating that it was now illegal in California to use galvanized metal outside, as the zinc would leach off and contaminate the soil. I asked them if that applied to every highway guard rail that existed in California, and were new highway projects NOT using galvanized railing? Are you SURE you have that regulation correctly interpreted? It's difficult to question a person in charge of permits in California, but I did, and for some reason approved the building material. I still don't know if he had any basis for his initial rejection, although with California trying to regulate cow emissions, it could be.... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_S_in_Penna Posted February 4, 2017 Share Posted February 4, 2017 (edited) On 2/2/2017 at 3:41 PM, trimacar said: I sort of get a kick out of a discussion about lead weights being bad for the environment. How may hundreds of millions of lead weights have been used for the last 100 years, and are there really any ill effects we can document?... I had some supports on the roof of an industrial building, to hold up pipe, and my specification was to fabricate from steel then galvanize. I asked them if that applied to every highway guard rail that existed in California, and were new highway projects NOT using galvanized railing? ... Good logic, David. Galvanizing is intended for OUTDOOR protection! The world can use more good old common sense. Now, is the original poster doing an impartial survey? I hope so. Gathering data for self-justification of a foregone conclusion isn't especially helpful--- Edited February 4, 2017 by John_S_in_Penna (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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