Gary W

1937 Buick Model 48: RESTORATION HAS BEGUN! (Photo)

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5 hours ago, dibarlaw said:

Gary:

 If you are using a remote/hidden starter switch that that would be fine. But if you are planning on using the original vacuum accelerator starter system the hand throttle is important. Many a time if you stall on a hill and the parking brake will not hold and you start drifting back..... Foot on the brake, pull out the throttle which will engage the starter. Back in business. A real life saver... Ask me how I  know!

Larry

 

It also helps to warm up that cold blooded straight 8 engine with a little more hand throttle before trying to let out the clutch to back out....

Edited by Mark Shaw (see edit history)
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Monday October 30, 2017:  Installation of the rear roll-up windows

 

First, you've convinced me to set up the hand throttle as original.  I'll run to the local music store and get a nice piano wire that replicates the diameter of the original and hook it up.  

 

Tonight I  got the rear roll-up windows in.  Little stressful by yourself while juggling the channels and the glass over that new paint, but in the end it went pretty nice.  I bent and cut the lower outer window sweeps also, just not installed yet.  Have to think about it more!

 

Rear Window installation:

 

 

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First thing I did was mark every mounting hole for the felt window channel to screw into.  I covered each hole with blue tape, then punched the hole through the tape.

It made it much easier to find the holes and helped mark them later.

 

 

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I got the window channel kit from Steele.  MEASURE your channels first!  I had no idea that the kit had two longer and two shorter.  I just assumed they were all the same size and had to be custom cut to fit.

The Model 48 uses longer channels for the rear windows.  I lucked out and happen to grab the correct one to start, and only noticed the length difference with the next channel.

Here I'm carefully bending the glass channel around the perimeter of the glass, following all the contours of the glass and cutting it so it bottoms out on the rain drip tray down there.

 

 

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Next, I test fit the channel in the body opening.  Using the tape as a guide, I placed a small silver dot on the channel where every mounting hole is located.

You have to be sure you keep pressure on the channel so it doesn't move around when measuring.

 

 

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Using a 9/64 drill bit, I drilled through where my silver marks are.

 

 

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I used a punch to be sure the holes are clear and removed any burs left behind by the drill.

 

 

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Back into the car, I started up in the forward most top corner and using a punch got the channel hole and the mounting holes lined up.

 

 

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I used #8 X 5/8" stainless pan head screws.  These are fully threaded and have a flat head profile that buries itself in the felt.

 

 

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Keep the corner nice and tight and flush to the opening, insert your first screw.  

 

 

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As you move back, use the punch to align then drive the screws in being sure there is no buckling or distortion as you go.

 

 


 

I'm sorry I don't have any photos of the angle I had to get the window seated because my hands were full.  But this is what I did:

Lower the window regulator to the bottom

From inside the car,  hold the glass at an inward tilt while pushing the back edge deep into the felt channel under the belt line.

So your glass is tipped inward slightly and angled so the front edge is up, the rear edge is down to the regulator.

Then, by slowly raising the back edge, the front edge will slip into the felt and the glass drops on top of the regulator bar.

 

 

 

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By pulling the regulator bar to you, and allowing the window to drop it naturally sets atop the bar.

Then, by using a punch you have to get the mounting holes aligned

Here, I had to slide the regulator bar forward to get things lined up.

 

 

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That's what you're shooting for.  The holes and the regulator bar perfectly aligned.

 

 

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Remember the game "Operation"?  Be sure your screwdriver is magnetic, and have a magnet on hand to chase the screws out of the body if you drop one. (...or two...)

I was waiting for the red nose to light up and hear that horrible "buzz"!

 

 

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So, the glass is in, the channels look really nice.  The windows move easily and close with a positive "thump" into the felt.

 

 

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One more project off the list!

 

 

 

Have a great night out there!

Gary

 

 

 

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What was the final answer about the shape of the glass and channel?

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I had to follow the glass outline not the body opening.  

 

By following the the glass, the channel seats in the car opening nice and flush, and the window is sealed all around nice and tight.

I DID try to follow the body contour and that prevented the glass from seating properly.  When fully closed, the upper rear edge of the glass was exposed and I had to use about 3/8" of shim stock behind the channel to install it.

Then the glass basically bottomed out too early and would not seat correctly.  

 

So,  I'll live with the glass channel disappearing for that blind inch in the corner back there.  No other way to get it to set properly.

 

Have a great day!

Gary

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Tuesday October 31, 2017:  Fender Lamp Restoration

 

Tonight after work I sat at the kitchen table and built the fender lamps, leaving my project every once in a while to hand out candy to the trick-or-treaters ringing the bell.  This is one of those areas where the parts are out for chrome, paint and wiring.  You can't really do anything until all the elements come together.  I removed the fender lamps in early January.  The shells were blasted, the trim re-chromed and the wiring came with the new harness.  I wire wheeled all the internals and painted all the fasteners.  Bob painted the shells just last week so now I can bring all the parts together.  So here goes:

 

 

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January 2017:  Removing the fender lamps.  The paint was chipped,  the chrome was pitted, the lens was broken, the wiring was completely dry rotted and the lamp did not illuminate.

 

 

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Here's the wiring to the socket.  I still can't figure why it didn't light up.

 

 

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The guts of the sockets removed and ready to be cleaned up.

 

 

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All the internal fasteners that keep it all together.

 

 

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After wire wheeling the fasteners.  There were some brass screws in there.  One set holds the upper shell, the other holds the clip on the back that secures the upper shell.

All these fasteners and internal parts got an acetone bath after the wire wheel, then were painted with Rust Oleum "paint and primer" in one can.

 

 

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The socket guts after cleaning and bathing.

 

 

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I made four new studs to mount the lamps to the fenders.  

A 5/16-18 Carriage Bolt and a 12-24 stainless screw became the new mounting studs.

 

 

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Measure, cut and dress the end with a file.

 

 

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Here's the progression from the original stripped stud to the replacement.

 

 

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Back on Father's Day I learned how to paint the grooves and wipe them clean.

Here I'm treating the chrome molding for the fender lamps.

 

 

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And finally, the shells were blasted, sanded, self-etch primed, primed, sanded and painted to match the car.

 

 

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And finally, tonight I have all the elements laid out for the build.

 

 

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I started by wiring the sockets with the new wires.  Up top is the sequence, down below how it all looks together.

I slip the shrink wrap before soldering.

 

 

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Solder the socket wire to the connector in the base.

 

 

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Heat your shrink wrap to insulate it.

 

 

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Run the guts through the molding and attach (loosely for now) the two forward screws and the rear clip (in the photo on the table down there) with one screw.

 

 

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I found it so much easier to attach the lens at this point while the front screws that hold the molding were still a little loose.

The glass engages the lower lip so much easier when the molding can scoot around a little.

 

 

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Here is the socket / lens assembly now in position and wired.

 

 

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To the bottom, attach your new wire and the two new studs

 

 

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Slide the top cover to the rear, engaging that rear hold down clip and insert the final screw through the top to secure the upper shell to the boss in the molding.

 

 

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Using a 9V battery, I tested them out and they look great!

 

 

 

 I'm hoping to get the front fenders from the paint shop this Saturday so I need to measure and cut the fender welt and have all those fender bolts ready to go!

 

Have a great night out there

Gary

 

 

 

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They look amazing, just like everything else in this thread.

 

Have you decided what to put on the interior floor yet? What kind of carpet and or mats did you get?

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I saw a post somewhere that you learned how to paint the grooves in the chrome. I am still struggling with this...

Any insights you can share?

P.

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Wednesday November 1, 2017:  Carpets

 

I really could use some advice / photos/ "order-of-operations" here before I start cutting.....

 

 

 

****  PPLAUT:  I sent you a PM regarding POST #371...Painting the recesses ****

Just touch the arrow on the upper right will take you to the specific post..

 

 

 

Carpets:

 

Hi Bloo!

 I ordered a full interior kit from LeBaron Bonney and the Carpets came with it.  

BUT I NEED SOME EXPERT ADVICE HERE.....  

If anyone has installed the front carpet PLEASE give me a some tips ..

 

 

 

 

Here's my questions...

 

 

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Here is the carpets for the car.  The tones all match the Brown Bedford Cord and the Brown headliner.

(They've been folded in a box for a few months so it appears there is a white line down the center. It's not there, just a camera thing)

 

 

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Let's focus on the front carpet today.  I'd like to make all the cuts to get it ready to drop in when the interior kit is finished.

 

 

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When you flip it over, the underside came marked with all the various cut outs that will allow it to slide into position.

 

 

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And the pedals, switches, gear shift it has to fit over.

 

 

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I think I have the labels correct for the cutouts.  

Questions:  How do I start this???  What cut do I make first to start the installation without ruining the carpet?

 

 

1.  Is the first cut through the binding up top to get the steering column in?  (I hate cutting through the binding but I don't see any other way)

2.  Do you disconnect your emergency brake cable at the handle and then thread it through the carpet, or do you make a slit up there (or off to the side?) as well so the carpet can be easily removed?

3.  I'm assuming you install the accelerator pedal last?  Once the carpet is down and smooth then punch those holes and run the screws in / throttle linkage through?

4.  Does the gearshift boot sit on top of the carpet after its down?

5. I have rubber grommets in the floor of the car that the emergency brake cable, the high/low beam switch come through.  Are there any finish grommets around those when they go through the carpet?  Or do they just poke through an unfinished hole?

6. Once cut, how to you finish the carpet so it doesn't fray or unravel.  Do I have to have a new leather binding sewn over my cuts??

 

How do you get all these holes perfectly aligned so there is no buckling of the carpet....

 

Any suggestions or interior photos before I start cutting this would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you!

 

Gary

 

Edited by Gary W (see edit history)

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Regarding your fourth question concerning the rubber gearshift boot, I am no expert, but all the gearshift boots I've encountered sat on top of the carpeting.

 

Also, I have a hunch that you are going to have to remove the gearshift lever before placing the carpet down and then re-attach it afterwards.

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14 hours ago, 1967 - 1997 Riviera said:

Regarding your fourth question concerning the rubber gearshift boot, I am no expert, but all the gearshift boots I've encountered sat on top of the carpeting.

 

 

18 hours ago, Gary W said:

4.  Does the gearshift boot sit on top of the carpet after its down?

 

HAHA! Ok Gary, I was hoping you were going to answer this question. :D

 

For anyone else following along who don't know what we are talking about here, a floor-shifted Buick Special, as well as my 1936 Pontiac (which uses a Buick Special-derived transmission), have a very odd shift mechanism. There is not a big tall steel collar around the shift lever where it sticks through the carpet. There is just a square thing maybe an inch (or less!) tall. There is a square boot that fits tightly on the square protrusion.

 

On the Pontiac, the square thing is too low for the entire boot to be on top of the carpet. It would just fall off. Sagging motor mounts? Maybe, but it looks like that wouldn't make enough difference. It doesn't seem likely to me that they would have cut a big square hole in the mat (or carpet) for that square boot to protrude through 3/8 or maybe 1/2 inch.

 

My current theory is that they must have piled a bunch of thicker jute in the center and ONLY the little rubber nipple at the top of the boot protrudes through the mat (or carpet). I am hoping someone can confirm or deny this. This view is supported by the fact that the pre-punched rubber front mats on Bobs Automobilia appear to have only a tiny round hole where the shifter pokes through. Admittedly, those aren't very good pictures.

 

 

 

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Edited by Bloo (see edit history)
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4 hours ago, Gary W said:

1.  Is the first cut through the binding up top to get the steering column in?  (I hate cutting through the binding but I don't see any other way)

 

I have not done exactly what you are doing with Lebaron Bonney stuff. What I have done is make a bunch of carpets from yardage (from scratch) in the days before kits were commonly available. As far as I know cutting is the only way, but I am open to suggestions. I am pretty sure the original carpet in later (50s) GMs were cut at that spot.. I used to lockstitch the binding where I was going to cut it, so the stitching wouldn't unravel.

 

4 hours ago, Gary W said:

5. I have rubber grommets in the floor of the car that the emergency brake cable, the high/low beam switch come through.  Are there any finish grommets around those when they go through the carpet?  Or do they just poke through an unfinished hole?

 

I would love to know the answer to this too. Every carpet kit in the world seems to come with a dimmer switch grommet. I don't know if these prewar Buicks (and Pontiacs) had them. Hopefully someone in here knows.

 

One thing about that dimmer switch hole, it winds up wrong on nearly every car. I would cut that dead last. Put the carpet in, stomp on it, maybe even drive it some. That ALWAYS seems to pull into an oval-shaped hole after the fact. A grommet helps conceal it, but usually isn't enough.

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14 minutes ago, Bloo said:

That ALWAYS seems to pull into an oval-shaped hole after the fact

 

The carpet moves. Every time you get in or out you push the carpet towards the centre. Floor mats in my modern heaps move towards the centre.

 

The only way to prevent that is to fasten the carpet down, as far as I can see. These cars have very little shape to fit the carpet onto to hold it in place. Having said that, there will be a "usual" place for the carpet to go to in service, related to the shape of the floor, the way the operators get in and out, the stiffness of the carpet (i.e. how much it crumples up against something), how many projections there are through it that hold it in place and where they are, and so on.

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Even if you fasten the carpet down, it still happens. As the carpet gets used, it starts to take the shape of the floor, and the pad compresses. The carpet pulls farther away from the kick panel. A gap opens up "southeast" of the button, right where it shows the most.

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4 hours ago, LAS VEGAS DAVE said:

Our 38 Special has a rubber mat but not carpet, did only the 37 have carpet?

 

 

What do you have in the back seat area?

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Thursday November 2, 2017:  Seat Mechanism and Paint update:

 

I installed the front seat mechanism last night.  I'm so glad I took a lot of photos during disassembly because when I bought the car, Harry (the previous owner) had mounted the seat back about 6" to accommodate his six-foot + frame.  It was back so far that when I purchased the car, I literally could not reach the pedals! 

When I removed the rugs and batting, I realized that the original tapped holes were being used but not for their original purpose.  So I carefully made notes at that time so I could mount the seat in it's original position for my 5'7" frame!  I also found a bolt sheared off in the floor that I didn't even realize was there, so that had to be drilled out as well.

 

 

 

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Flashback to January.  In this photo my index finger is actually on the bolt that is supposed to hold that seat retainer in position.  (Arrow is pointing to it)

I realized that Harry mounted the seat back for his comfort.  

 

 

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So, I made this note sheet for myself.  The rear roller was just drilled through the floor back there.  In this photo you can see the front bar  assembly was shifted back so the two front bolts are still in the floor.  The "ratchet" mechanism was also moved back.  So I made these notes to remind myself how to mount these parts.  These were mounted straight to the floor with a very thin rubber pad under each part.  I mounted them straight to my Dynamat.

 

 

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Just using the photo from January as a map and finger pressure I was able to  find and depress the bolt openings.  A sharp blade was all that was needed to lift the Dynamat off the threaded holes.

 

 

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I had to order some new bolts to replace the missing ones.  I like everything to look as authentic as possible so I ground off the head markings.

 

 

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A quick touch to the wheel and the head is smooth like the originals.

 

 

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Here's the part from McMaster Carr and the transition from marked to smooth and finally painted before installation.

 

 

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For those interested, it's part # 93190A345.  They are perfect to mount the seat assembly into the threaded holes in the floor.

 

 

 

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You can see the threaded holes in the floor.

 

 

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I kept that photo as a guide throughout the install.

 

 

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On the passenger side, I opened up the one hole to find a bolt sheared off under there.

 

 

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I drilled it straight down the middle using a left thread drill bit, hoping that while the drill was running it would unscrew the broken bolt.  But it didn't.

I had to use a punch to collapse it in and remove it.

 

 

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Here's the remains of the bolt when it  finally came out.

 

 

 

 

PAINT SHOP UPDATE:

 

 

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Rear License Plate and Lamp in yellow self-etch and today....

 

 

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Painted and ready to be rebuilt!

 

 

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Fenders are in the sanding phase now.  

 

 

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Drivers front fender still has the black guide coat.  It will be all sanded today.  

Then the rubberized undercoat applied to both fenders and finally,  the base coat, clear coat...

 

 

Gary

 

 

 


 

 

Edited by Gary W (see edit history)
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Friday November 3, 2017:  Trippe Light and Heater Wiring Help

 

I want to install the switches tonight but I need some advice on wiring.

 

 

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These are the switches I want to install under the dash.  

 

 

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Back side.  Both marked "BAT" where the hot wire gets attached.  

 

 

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Here's a close up of Buick's wiring as it relates to the charge indicator

At first, It didn't make sense to me,  showing the "hot" wire from the battery connecting to the "-" or discharge side of the meter.

And the fuel gauge, ignition switch.. come off the "+" charge side..

I automatically assumed the hot wire would go to the "+" side, and all accessories would feed off the "-" side.

So, I wired according to the Buick diagram above.

 

 

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Another close-up of the Series 40 wiring diagram clearly showing the "hot" wire from the battery goes directly to the "-" side of the charge indicator

And the thermo circuit breaker, (and by default, the cigar lighter), the ignition switch  and the gas gauge feed off the "+" side.

 

So here is my question:

 

When I turn on the heater or Trippe Lamps, should the charge meter indicate a draw on the system? (Needle moves to "discharge")

If so, do I wire these through the thermo-circuit breaker or directly from the "+" side of the charge indicator?

 

AND....  Can I run one "hot" wire from the "+" side of the charge indicator to the "BAT" terminal of one switch and simply jump a wire over to the other "BAT" terminal on the other switch?

Or should I wire the Trippe lights to the thermo circuit breaker and wire the heater through the charge indicator??

Any advice please.....

 

Thanks!

Gary

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Gary,

 

It looks like you have a spare terminal, Number 6, on the light switch. If you want to use the breaker in the light swith to protect those, you could wire to that terminal. If you would prefer to avoid that additional current running through the light switch, which might be a good idea, You can use a separate fuse or circuit breaker and connect them to anywhere on the 12 gauge wire between the + side of the charge indicator and the #1 terminal of the headlamp switch circuit breaker. You could either connect it to the + terminal of the charge indicator, the #1 terminal of the headlamp switch, or you could splice it into the 12 gauge wire between the two. 

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The circuit breaker on the headlight switch probably will not carry the additional load of the Trippe lights with the headlights on too. Id wire them directly, with some type of fusing, to the charge indicator.

In my opinion, all acessories should go through the ignition switch (I added a relay to take the additional load off the switch). I would also reroute the instrument lights through the ignition switch too - otherwise they can easily be left on presenting you with a dead battery later.

 

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Thanks Matt and Don...

So, If I run a feed wire from #1 Terminal of light switch, through a fuse, to the "BAT" terminal of the Trippe Light switch, the charge indicator should show a discharge when the lights are on?

 

Also, is it acceptable to simply wire a jumper from the Trippe Light "BAT" terminal to the Heater "BAT" terminal so they both get power from the same source or should I run a separate feed wire for the heater?

 

AND... If I connect them through the ignition switch, does that bypass the charge indicator?  Or will it still show discharge when the heater and/or Trippes are on?

 

Hope I'm not confusing the issue here, Just don't want to overload things

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2 hours ago, Gary W said:

Friday November 3, 2017:  Trippe Light and Heater Wiring Help

 

I want to install the switches tonight but I need some advice on wiring.

 

 

DSC_1684.thumb.JPG.910ae26e0587ffa540c388cc38e7b77a.JPG

These are the switches I want to install under the dash.  

 

 

DSC_1694.thumb.JPG.86ec17cbb31a3fd6a123df8b708f77a2.JPG

Back side.  Both marked "BAT" where the hot wire gets attached.  

 

 

59fc6e11338ab_InkedBuickWiringDiagramIgnitionCircuit.jpg_LI.thumb.jpg.79f12e6e724da589c66d80c205db052c.jpg

Here's a close up of Buick's wiring as it relates to the charge indicator

At first, It didn't make sense to me,  showing the "hot" wire from the battery connecting to the "-" or discharge side of the meter.

And the fuel gauge, ignition switch.. come off the "+" charge side..

I automatically assumed the hot wire would go to the "+" side, and all accessories would feed off the "-" side.

So, I wired according to the Buick diagram above.

 

 

59fc6e1e22212_BuickWiringDiagramcloseup.jpg.thumb.jpeg.fedeedce1c3976060cd333b00f85ead2.jpeg

Another close-up of the Series 40 wiring diagram clearly showing the "hot" wire from the battery goes directly to the "-" side of the charge indicator

And the thermo circuit breaker, (and by default, the cigar lighter), the ignition switch  and the gas gauge feed off the "+" side.

 

So here is my question:

 

When I turn on the heater or Trippe Lamps, should the charge meter indicate a draw on the system? (Needle moves to "discharge")

If so, do I wire these through the thermo-circuit breaker or directly from the "+" side of the charge indicator?

 

AND....  Can I run one "hot" wire from the "+" side of the charge indicator to the "BAT" terminal of one switch and simply jump a wire over to the other "BAT" terminal on the other switch?

Or should I wire the Trippe lights to the thermo circuit breaker and wire the heater through the charge indicator??

Any advice please.....

 

Thanks!

Gary

 

Yes, when you turn on either the heater fan or the Trippe lights, the charge meter should dip momentarily to the discharge side.

 

Can't help you with the rest because I'm all confused!

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Anything through the ignition switch will go through the charge meter.

Terminal #1 on the light switch has 3 connecting points. The terminal with the wire from the charge meter will always be hot. Anything connected to that will go mthrough the charge meter. However, the other 2 terminals go through the circuit breaker. I would not connect anything to them - it may overload the breaker.

Anything else I'd power via the ignition switch so all goes off when the ignition is off.

 

 

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It is confusing the way Buick labelled the ammeter.....the  "+"  and  "-"     bit.         To me it's easier just to ignore the  +     and  -      designations but otherwise follow the Buick drawings.   (  frankly I wonder if the  +    and  -   designations were a typo.......but it really doesn't matter )

 

The previous advice about being careful not to put too many amps thru the ignition switch I think is good advice....in fact we did this on out 1937 Special.   It's not that hard to add a relay

( triggered by the ignition switch )   to prevent damage to the ignition switch contacts.      I think most auto stores have a relay that would work OK for this purpose.

 

We added quite a few accessories to our 1937    (including overdrive relay and solenoid )    Some things ended up on ignition hot circuits and some ( for example all lights )  ended up on battery hot circuits.   We added a little "switchboard" under the dash so that later on we could switch any given component from one type  circuit to the other type circuit if we should change our mind about something   ( eg  maybe down the road we might want to change the radio from ignition hot to battery hot )

 

Jack Worstell

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