Gary W

1937 Buick Model 48: RESTORATION HAS BEGUN! (Photo)

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The ammeter already has an internal shunt resistor. The meter movement itself is only capable of handling a few mA at most, so high current applications have a resistor in parallel. In effect the meter acts as a voltmeter measuring the drop across the shunt, usually 50 or 100 mV full scale. So if our meter will pass 30A, the value of the internal resistance is probably on the order of 0.003 ohms. Adding the 10 ga wire will, assuming good but not lossless connections at the terminals, effectively drop the resistance by about a factor of 10 or so. The effect would be that you probably would see some meter movement when effecting large charge or discharges. I guess it would work ok but if you get into a constant small charge or discharge situation you might not see it on the meter.

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1 hour ago, Daves1940Buick56S said:

The ammeter already has an internal shunt resistor. The meter movement itself is only capable of handling a few mA at most, so high current applications have a resistor in parallel. In effect the meter acts as a voltmeter measuring the drop across the shunt, usually 50 or 100 mV full scale. So if our meter will pass 30A, the value of the internal resistance is probably on the order of 0.003 ohms. Adding the 10 ga wire will, assuming good but not lossless connections at the terminals, effectively drop the resistance by about a factor of 10 or so. The effect would be that you probably would see some meter movement when effecting large charge or discharges. I guess it would work ok but if you get into a constant small charge or discharge situation you might not see it on the meter.

 

Yes. By varying the size of your wire shunt, you can increase the maximum current (full scale) reading to whatever you want it to be. A +-20 Amp ammeter can become +-30 Amp for instance.

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QUOTE FROM PREVIOUS POST

Turning everything on at the same time as a "test" probably isn't the best idea, because the real problem is heat from possible overloaded circuits.  You'll never know if the ignition switch is being overheated until the contacts burn out, as others have shown. 

 

Have you felt the main feed wire at the ammeter with everything on? 

 

What does the ammeter read with everything on, with the engine not running?  That will give a more accurate indication of total amps through the circuit, based on the accuracy of the gage. 

 

 

I have never felt the ammeter gauge wires with everything on but I would imagine it could be hot. I try it because I also would imagine that when Buick made these cars they would expect that some of their customers would be driving on a cold night with the heater and defroster on and of course the lights and many had a radio so it should be able to be used with no bad consequences. I have driven for more than a half hour like that and not had any problem. If the motor is not running the ammeter reads half discharge with the parking lights on and full discharge with the headlights and taillights and running lights on. We have driven this car over 6000 miles all together, probably 2000 or more at night without any electrical problems other than a non working gas gauge when I first got the car. Our car now has 24000 plus original miles. It surely has more than that as when its in overdrive it shows less miles than are actually being put on it.

 

Edited by LAS VEGAS DAVE
TO ADD QUOTE (see edit history)
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Gary,

 

I think we are all getting a bit stressed out without seeing anything new from you in several days. I did not manage to do any substantial work on my project today due to other commitments and I also have to be away from the garage tomorrow morning. I think that the absence of anything new from you and my own personal project having to be put on hold for about 24 hours is almost too much for me. I hope you post something here soon. :D

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Hi Guys 

Busy attending College Tours with my family.  

Hopefully I’ll be back in the garage Sunday / Monday....

 

Stay Tuned

 

G

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On 11/11/2017 at 8:50 AM, Gary W said:

Hi Guys 

Busy attending College Tours with my family.  

Hopefully I’ll be back in the garage Sunday / Monday....

 

Stay Tuned

 

G

Well, there goes the Buick restoration budget for the next four years!

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Monday November 13, 2017 to Wednesday November 15, 2017:  Front Fenders, Running Boards, Fender Lamps and Bumper Irons

 

 

The past three days was all about getting the front fenders from the paint shop, transporting them home, prepping them and finally today installing them onto the car.

 

 

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Monday morning.  At this point, I already picked up the passenger's side fender, and the driver's side is getting sanded in preparation for the machine polish.

 

 

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Tuesday morning, the fender was ready and I bought it home.

 

 

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You need two people to transport these things around.  Especially after they are painted!

 

 

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Once back in my garage, I first measured the welting for the rear section.

 

 

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I used this really great double backed tape to affix the welt to the fender.  This stuff is easily molded around the bends and curves and holds tight.

 

 

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I started the welting at the bottom, and slowly carried it around the bends.

 

 

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Here it is installed with the tape holding it firm.  I think I went too far with it, but I'll custom trim it to fit the hood once I get to that point.

 

 

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Using this Copper-Eze, I ran a fender bolt into every hole to be sure they were all tapped, clean and wouldn't fight me.

 

 

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I did the five rear bolts that go into the body, the front five into the clip and the three that run through the chassis rail.

 

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This morning, all set up.  I was waiting for John to come over to help me lift the fenders into position.

 

 

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First, we laid out all the fasteners so they were easily reached when holding the fender.

 

 

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Team lift.

 

 

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My car has three studs up front where the front fender support bolts to the chassis.

 

 

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I aimed for the studs and allowed the fender to rest there while I started running some bolts in.

 

 

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While John held the rear, I was able to start the front clip bolts.  Only finger tight.

 

 

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Then got the five rear body bolts inserted, everything finger tight only.

 

 

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Repeat for the other side, then install the fender support iron loosely at the frame, while inserting the nut and bolt that secure it to the outer fender edge.

Before tightening the fender support iron, we went to the other side and installed the same outer fender edge bolt.

So, at this point, the only tight bolts are the outer fender bolt under the front lip of the fenders.  Everything else is still finger tight.

 

 

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Then it was back and forth:

 Front support iron L and R, rear support iron L and R, front clip L side, then front clip R side, all 5 rear bolts L, then R and finally the three chassis bolts.

(We had the entire front clip only "finger tight" before we started this fender installation so everything could move and line up as needed.)

 

All told, there are 20 bolts that affix the fenders to the body:

5 into the body cage nuts at the rear of the fender

5 into the front clip

3 into the chassis

3 hold the front fender support iron to the frame (radiator frame)

1 into the outer edge fender support (that same front fender support iron)

2 hold the rear support iron to the firewall brackets

1 holds the front clip to the top of the fender where the hood drops down.

 

 

Once the fenders were installed and tight, we moved on to the running boards.

 

 

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In a previous post, I went through the running board restoration and all the hardware used.

 

 

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We determined it was much easier to mount the chassis support irons first.

So, we removed them from the underside of the running boards and secured the irons to the frame.

 

 

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Keeping everything loose under there, it was easy to get the running boards aligned to the car.  

 

 

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Again, we installed the running boards, but kept the bolts only finger tight so I can make all final adjustments when I install the rear fenders.

 

 

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The restored running boards look great.

 

 

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They add so much to the car!

 

 

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I restored the fender lamps previously, so installation was a breeze.

 

 

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New rubber grommet and run the wire through the fender iron and into the engine compartment.

 

 

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It's really starting to look Buick!

 

 

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Classic

 

 

 

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And finally....  Starting with the original bumper support iron nuts and bolts, I was once again at the wire wheel.....

 

 

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And again,  scrubbed in acetone, primed and painted gloss black.

 

 

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Slide the bumper rubber seals into position and align the iron to the chassis holes.

 

 

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Get everything aligned and bolted tight.

 

 

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Then I installed the Trippe Lights onto the bumper irons.

 

 

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I looked at them from every angle to be sure the lenses were at the same forward position, the same angle, the same distance from center.....

 

 

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And so, the day ends.  Nice day.

 

 

It's nice to be back!

 

Have a great night out there!

Gary

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Gary W (see edit history)
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Sorry, I am amazed at the carpeting in the shop.  Great

 

Somehow, I didn't learn it this way.  But I Love it.

 

 

intimeold

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On ‎03‎/‎04‎/‎2017 at 8:46 PM, FLYER15015 said:

That's called a differential cover, third member cover plate, or down under a crown and pinion cover plate.

Got to ask Danny or Grant about that last one.

Back then Ford was still using a banjo diff, and you should see how may of those "jack stands" are still around.

I got two............

I worked at a stamping plant where we made them for GM and called them hard hats.

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That black is just beautiful. I love those trippe lights also.

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How can I get the engine paint colors?

I was able to get my original body color remixed- but I don't have a reference number for the engine colors.

 

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Where did you get the driving lights and brackets? #needthose 

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25 minutes ago, pplaut said:

How can I get the engine paint colors?

I was able to get my original body color remixed- but I don't have a reference number for the engine colors.

 

 

The correct engine paint is available from either Bob's Automobilia or Cars, Inc. 

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Saturday November 18, 2017:  Installation of the front carpet

(.....and a couple other things first!)

 

 

 

Where is the rest of the car?

Throughout the restoration, I've kept parts going in and out of the front room of the house where set up our Christmas tree.

Now that my kids are coming home from college, it's time to put the tree up!

(Which means I  HAD TO  get that room cleaned out today!)

 

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This is where parts were kept from February.  Things keep rotating in and out of the piles as parts are sent out, restored, received......

 

 

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My wife was great about letting me take over the room this year.  But, today it's time to clear out.  

Obviously, most of this stuff from this summer is already installed so the cleanup wasn't so bad.

 

 

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Ready for the tree!  

 

 

 

PAINT SHOP UPDATE:

 

Not a whole lot to report as Bob is just beginning the rear fenders.

 

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This is why you have to completely remove all the old bondo or plastic....  There was rust UNDER the old bondo.

 

 

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Bob had to finish the Chevy fenders you see by the door.  Now that they are done, he'll start on my fenders Monday morning.

 

 

 

 

 

INSTALLATION OF THE FRONT CARPET:

 

 

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Flashback to January:  The front carpet was pretty ratty.  A lot of water damage through the cowl vent really deteriorated the floor coverings.

 

 

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Under the carpet is a jute matting and then these "particle board" panels that were glued down to the floor.

So, I've already installed the Dynamat sound deadener to the floor, but it is only about 1/8" thick.

Before installing the rear carpet, I'm going to install the DYNAPAD that I used on the trunk floor.  I think it will be great back here to reproduce the thickness of those panels and the jute.

 

But up front, I went a different route.  

First, I want to place a padding under the carpet because it's just not comfortable without it.  It simply doesn't look finished laying directly on the floor.

So, what I ended up doing up front is purchasing a jute-backed black mat from Bob's.  I used it as a base under the rug,  BUT more importantly, a TEMPLATE before cutting the carpet!

I was so hesitant cutting into the carpet blindly so I used the "pre-punched" mat, customized it for a perfect fit, then used all my customized holes to cut the carpet.

 

So here is what I did today:

 

 

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The jute-backed mat is "pre-punched" except the gear shift lever.  So, I cut it pizza style just so I can place the mat in the car and start finalizing my measurements.

Pushing the mat down around the rubber boot, I marked it with a sharpie.  I then marked the pedals, accelerator pedal, high beam.....  Everything was off a little.

 

 

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This was the first time in the car.  You can see the marks I made to allow the mat to sit without any pull on it.

Also, knowing this will serve only as a carpet pad, I made sure the cuts were open enough so nothing rubbed.

 

 

 

 

 

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Using a piece of wood as a cutting board, I cut into my marks.  Here I'm opening up the brake pedal hole to the left to eliminate pulling on the mat.

 

 

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Last time fitting the mat in the car.

 I went in and out three times, each time trimming a touch here and there to allow the mat to effortlessly drop in without any creases or pulls.

At this last fitting, I used duct tape around the gearshift lever to get the final measurement just right.  

I moved the shift through all the gears and taped about 1/8" outside the rubber boot in each position.

 

 

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I laid the carpet down first, then placed the jute-backed mat with my holes cut out on top of it.

Being very careful to get the edges lined up to be sure its centered left-right, I used the steering column hole drawn on the back of the carpet as my guide to the front-back position.

 

 

 

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Pushing the jute out of the way, you can see the duct tape I placed in the car around the gear shift lever.  I traced out all my cutouts in the rubber mat on to the back side of the carpet.

 

 

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I started carefully cutting into the new carpet, now with holes marked out that I know will fit my car.  

Looking at the marks I made compared to the marks that were in the carpet, I'm SO GLAD I didn't  start cutting the carpet first!  It would have been 3/4" off just from the first cut!

 

 

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Accelerator pedal hole.  All I did was cut from corner to corner before committing to removing all the carpet here.  Same for the gear shift lever.

 

 

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So, now that the carpet is cut to this "template", I reinstalled the jute-backed mat first.  You can see how nice it sits .  I did tuck it under the firewall pad.

 

 

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Then slide the carpet over the gear shift lever and start getting things aligned and installed.  Here I installed the accelerator pedal back into the floor.

**  I had to remove the rubber mat under the carpet where the linkage comes through to allow the pedal to fully depress **

 

 

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I've restored an entire car, and this, by far, was the toughest cotter pin to install!!

 

 

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The emergency brake cable.  I decided to cut a slit through the side so the carpet can be easily removed without having to disconnect the emergency brake cable every time.

Look how nice the high/low beam switch lines up.

 

 

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And here is the front carpet installed,  Am I supposed to tuck it under the firewall pad?

I can loosen up the lower bolts, tuck it in and tighten it back down.  It will help hold it from scooting around.

And... do the sill plates go OVER the carpet or does the carpet lay on top of the sill plates?

I'm going to use a little headliner adhesive to tack the rug to the mat underneath so it all stays stable and flat.

 

 

 

B E F O R E   A N D   A F T E R :

 

 

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Have a great weekend!

Gary

 

 

 

 

 


 

 

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Nice job!

 

2 hours ago, Gary W said:

The jute-backed mat is "pre-punched" except the gear shift lever.

 

Interesting, since their pictures show a punched hole.

 

I gather only the top of the shift boot sticks through. How much jute did it take to make that happen? Was the stuff from Bob's mat enough? Is it thicker in the middle than on the outside?

 

2 hours ago, Gary W said:

And here is the front carpet installed,  Am I supposed to tuck it under the firewall pad?

 

Probably. On many cars that have a firewall pad, the carpet tucks under.

 

2 hours ago, Gary W said:

And... do the sill plates go OVER the carpet or does the carpet lay on top of the sill plates?

 

I don't know. I would love to see what you figure out. As near as I can tell my Pontiac didn't have the sort of sill plates we think of today, and apparently the edge of the carpet (and/or mat) just lays there. Do you have to have access under the front mat? Is there a battery or a master cylinder or anything under there?

 

Does the rear edge of the carpet/mat just lay there or is it captured under the seat?

 

 

 

Edited by Bloo (see edit history)

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I think if I was going to use just the black jute-backed mat as the finished floor covering,  I would cut the hole larger for the gearshift.  When I cut it to exactly fit over the rubber boot stem, the mat actually moves every time you shift gears.  So I  had to cut the mat larger to allow the lever to move unfettered.  I was wondering how it would look if you cut the hole in the mat larger, and placed the gearshift boot OVER the mat to make a nice finish.  This way the gearshift lever can move through the gears without stretching, moving or distorting the rubber mat.

 

The mat doesn't go back far enough to cover the battery cover plate, which is actually located under the seat.  You would have to peel it back to get at the round removable master cylinder access hole in the floor. 

 

Being I used my mat basically as a carpet pad / sound deadener, it was more important to get the carpet holes correct, as the carpet is the finished product.

 

I may try to attach the door sill plates over the rubber mat to keep it tight, but allow the carpet to lay on top of the sills.  The carpet has a nice leather binding that lends a very nice, finished professional look to the job.  i don't think I want to hide the binding.

 

The mat from Bob's is the same thickness throughout.  It is not any thicker in the middle. It was kind of "molded" over the transmission tunnel so it fit pretty good out of the box.  (MUCH better than the carpet would have fit if I cut along the lines that are marked on it!) So, if you are placing carpet, do yourself a huge favor and create a template first.  Use cardboard, plastic, .... whatever.  Don't cut without thoroughly measuring, measuring and then measuring your floor first.

 

I think I'll polish up the sills tomorrow and do a test fit.  See what I like!

 

Have a good night!

G

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My car has carpet in the back and a rubber mat up front but I would say that the carpet does not go under the door sills. The door sills are mounted and then the floor covering lays over the top of the inside edge of the sill. That is the way the front mat and rear carpet are in my 1937 Century.

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On 10/12/2017 at 10:18 PM, Gary W said:

Another question:  I installed new battery and ground cables tonight.  Nice "zero" sized ones.  I have the ground directly to the engine and the frame.  Why do I get a little spark at the battery when I touch the "+" cable to the "+" battery post?  

Doesn't a spark mean a short somewhere or is it normal to spark a little when first connected?

 

I'm quoting myself here.  I'm still getting a pretty good spark when I connect the battery so I'm convinced I have a short...

 

I'm going crazy disconnecting all my wiring trying to nail it down.  Tell me if this makes any sense:

I disconnected the 10 gauge yellow wire from the starter where the battery cable attaches.  I figured this will completely isolate the short.

Using a test light attached to the battery's "+" terminal,  (the "-" terminal is grounding the car),  I touched the test light to wire ends, terminals......My thought is if the test light lights up, I've found something that is grounding out and causing the spark.  The only way the light can illuminate is if it touches something that is grounded.  

 

After disconnecting the light switch, cigar lighter, charge meter, ignition switch, gasoline gauge, dome lamp, clock, dash lights....  I'm still getting a spark!  It's not a little spark, it's like a short circuit.

So....  Is the gasoline gauge supposed to be insulated from the metal instrument panel?  In other words, when all the wires are removed, should I be able to touch the screw posts in the back without my test light illuminating?  When I touch the posts of the ammeter the light does not come on, so I believe that gauge is insulated from the panel.  Should the gas gauge be the same and how, exactly is that done?  Should there be rubber grommets at the base of the posts to keep them from brushing up against the metal?

 

I wasted an entire day with this, and I've solved nothing.   

If anyone has any ideas on how to isolate a short, I'm all ears.  I have a feeling its in the instrument panel.  Something is pulling ground current and causing the short.  

 

(Is this normal....  both wires to the ignition switch are disconnected from the switch and just hanging down.  If I touch one, the test light illuminates, not the other.  If the main wire is disconnected.....)

 

Thanks for any advice.  I don't want to hook up the battery for fear of burning something up somewhere.  

 

Thanks guys!

 

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Ok, Im not sure I understand exactly how you are checking this but..

 

Using an incandescant test light (the only kind you should be using for this test) it does not matter which test light lead is which.

 

1) You can disconnect a battery terminal and connect the test light between the post and the disconnected cable OR

2) You can disconnect the wire (feeding the whole car) from the starter and connect the light between the starter post and the wire you disconnected OR

3) You can disconnect the wire (feeding the whole car) from the starter, and connect the test light between the positive battery post and the wire. This is what I think you did, right?

 

All of the above work and are the same, except in #1 a problem in the starter will light the light, and in the others it wont. I usually used to disconnect the positive post and just connect the test light between the positive post and the disconnected battery cable, but again that doesn't matter. If you are testing to just the little wire that feeds the car, and it is still on, you have eliminated the starter... good.

 

Ignition should be off for all testing. Lights should be off too.


Ok, I see you disconnected the clock.. Try disconnecting the "bat" terminal from the voltage regulator. Maybe your generator cutout is stuck.

 

The gas gauge has a circuit in it that goes to ground. Thats normal. It should be off with the ignition off, and therefore should not cause the problem.

 

You are on the right track. You just leave the light connected and on, and disconnect stuff until it goes out. You shouldn't really need to probe anywhere else. There isn't much connected with the ignition off. The circuit through the ammeter, then through the regulator, to the generator is one thing, the clock is another, the glovebox light is another if it has one.

 

I don't have a 37 wiring diagram handy. If you have one in electronic form, please post!. If not, maybe I can get to one later today.

 

The ammeter should be completely insulated, as you mentioned. Both sides are hot in normal operation with nothing going to ground.

 

Thats all for now, let us know what you find out!

 

Edited by Bloo (see edit history)

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Should the gas gauge be completely insulated also?

Or is it OK that it touches the panel?

Edited by Gary W (see edit history)

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Gary, one terminal of the gas gauge is supposed to be grounded. As far as I understand, neither terminal on the ignition switch should be grounded. I would trace out the grounded ignition terminal and see where that one is grounded. Possibly the voltage regulator, generator cutout, vaccum switch, or something else in the circuit is shorted.

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I traced it out and found out the coil lit my test lamp on both sides.  So I disconnected the yellow wire (Not the one that goes to the distributor), and now both ignition wires are not lighting the lamp.

 

5a120f5497b19_Series40WiringDiagram.thumb.jpeg.dac87199c4e2eb965857fe530cd6f8ab.jpeg

Edited by Gary W (see edit history)

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That wire is connected directly or indirectly to the vacuum switch, the voltage regulator, and the starter, so any of those could be the source of the problem. Good luck tracing it out and solving it. 

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