Classic or New? What should your next car be?

[Guest argctin]

Here is a good story 

http://www.sediuvirtual.com/classic-or-new-what-should-your-next-car-be/

[John_S_in_Penna]

That article poses an interesting point.  It considers

the topic in a very brief and shallow manner--buy a $30,000

new car or a $30,000 antique Camaro instead--but we can

give it a lot more thought here!

 

I say, spend $15,000 on a very nice and reliable used car

for everyday transportation.  (Most new cars aren't exciting

and individual enough to make me want to pay their price.)

Then also buy a $15,000 antique car to keep and enjoy.

 That gives the best of both worlds:  Reliable transportation

that looks good and works well, and an antique car for your hobby.

 

People of all means can be thrifty, and following this method

over many years will make you wealthier than you would be otherwise.

Edited August 31, 2016 by John_S_in_Penna (see edit history)

[Guest argctin]

That is so right John! I think you are absolutely right!

[zdillinger]

I followed John's method... my daily driver is a $16,000 2011 Lincoln and my fun car is a fully restored 1939 Packard 120 that I just bought in July for $12,000. I'm also restoring a derelict 1926 Ford Model T that I bought on the cheap. Best I can hope for as a 32 year old pre-war auto enthusiast.

[Akstraw]

It's an interesting story to ponder, but I think it misses a few important aspects.  First, when used as a daily driver, it is not necessarily true that a fully and freshly restored car will increase in value over time, or even hold value constant.  The inevitable door dings, stone chips, upholstery wear, and sun fading will take a toll.  Second, with a muscle-era car as a daily driver, one sacrifices forty or fifty years of safety advances; antilock brakes, disc brakes, crumple zones, and airbags to name a few, not to mention improved fuel mileage, environmental friendliness, compatibility with ethanol fuel, and general all-around increased durability.  I like John S. approach best!

[auburnseeker]

If you live in the Norhteast you don't even have the choice.  That nice vintage car will be a pile of rust inside of 10 years and worth a couple thousand bucks tops.  You have to use John's approach. 

[Steve_Mack_CT]

If you live anywhere there is a huge difference between the realities of daily use and the pampered lives most of our hobby cars enjoy.  Plus, as they say, they don't make 'em like they used to!!  My Daily use car just ticked over 50,000 miles and is on its original plugs, etc.etc. - I don't get to wax it too often, and it still looks great when it gets a wash, the interior looks like it is 6 months old - the materials used as well as the finishes, like the mechanicals, are simply more durable today.  Using a collectible car will require more upkeep than most are used to nowadays to keep it in reasonable condition let alone above average.  Also, if I have to go somewhere to attend a meeting, etc. sometimes you just do not have the luxury of "careful parking" - heck, even if you park carefully 99.9% of the time door dings are inevitable in today's careless society.  And yes, Seeker is right in the northeast 10 years is even optimistic given the new mystery solution being used on the roads in recent years - saves the blue spotted owl but rots your undercarriage in 3 winters??  

 

If you really want to do that, go for it, but expect normal wear and tear and some level of depreciation.  John S. as usual finds a great balance.

 

I also think insurance and financing would be a little harder with an older car.  The thread elsewhere on financing collector cars reminded me that in some cases we have bought new due to the fact it is simply cheaper sometimes.  Son's girlfriend just bought a brand new Honda vs. the one year old model, virtually identical with 12,000 or so miles - because once the financing difference is taken into account, the dollar difference was a wash.  I bet a lot of people don't even consider that which is unfortunate for them.  I would think a lot of insurers would shy away from insuring collector cars for daily use which is usually glossed over in these comparisons that show up now and again.

[zdillinger]

30 minutes ago, Steve_Mack_CT said:

 I would think a lot of insurers would shy away from insuring collector cars for daily use which is usually glossed over in these comparisons that show up now and again.

 

The biggest concern with insuring a classic as a daily driver isn't on the insurance company side, its on the insured side. You'll never get a settlement close to the vehicle's actual replacement cost with a standard insurance policy... you basically have to go with an agreed value coverage and that is pretty rare for standard auto. Your car will simply be a old used up used car to them and the settlement check will reflect that. I work for the Insurance Department here in Michigan and see a lot of the tricks they use to beat down settlements to their lowest possible cost. My favorite story isn't auto-related, but one company here in Michigan had a client that lost his well in a lightning strike... the company would replace the pump but refused to dig the new well required to install the new system because it was "moving earth" which they claimed the policy did not cover... they were wrong and we made them pay up.

[Annie G]

Very interesting topic!  

 

I work for 4 car dealerships as a title clerk and I see what people pay for new cars!  Unreal!  I say it all the time, I would never purchase a "new" car. To most people, my 2 trucks are ancient - at 26 & 27 years old.  But to see the payments people make on new cars, plus the higher cost of insurance and taxes and although you don't have to maintain them as much as an older car, you lack the individuality of a classic car.  You look in any parking lot and you see the same thing - Hondas, Nissans, Toyotas, Mercedes, etc. Even tho the logos are all different, they really look the same.  Then there's my Burb.  Sticks out like a store thumb, everyone knows it's mine and there's some respect for it cause it's "old".

 

Then there's my "toy" - a highly customized 1990 454SS pickup.  This truck started out as my daily driver for almost 10 years before we put the 500+ horsepower BBC in it, replacing the "boat anchor" that came with the truck.  

 

I pay under $2000/year for insurance (That includes my 2 trucks and husband's '01 PT Cruiser and all 3 have full coverage), around $50 in taxes for all 3 vehicles.  There are no car payments, we can do the maintenance and repairs ourselves without the help of a computer and if I need parts, I can find many at the local junk yard.  No I know not everyone can do that but we still can take advantage of this.

 

My next vehicle?  I hope it's a 68-72 3-door Suburban!  Or a really clean 454SS pickup of any year.

[Buffalowed Bill]

Or you could learn to appreciate more modern cars that have some special character, but have not yet reached a point where they are collectable. They can usually be bought for less then $5000, are fun to drive, unique to own and can be reliable to boot. I have five daily drivers, presentable, never garaged and all ready to go at the turn of a key. The most that I have invested in any one of them is $3500+ maintenance and repairs (which has been minimal). I have never owned a new car, and no doubt ever will. I live in a part of the country that I can have my cake and eat it too, I feel truly blessed! 

[MCHinson]

I own 4 vehicles. My daughter has the 2004 Impala away at college. My "daily driver" is an AACA Original 1989 Buick Park Avenue. My next most commonly driven car is my DPC 1937 Buick Century. (I drive it to lunch and elsewhere whenever the weather is nice enough for it.) My most ignored car is the AACA Original 1984 Buick Riviera. It sits behind the Park Avenue in the garage so it does not get driven nearly enough. I have less the $30,000 invested in all four cars. I have no plans to ever buy another new car again. I get constant positive comments every time I drive the 1937 Century. I get positive comments every time I drive the 1984 Riviera. I even get positive comments every now and then on the 1989 Park Avenue.

 

If I was not retired, I might need a newer car as a daily driver but this works out well for me at this stage of the game.   

[John_S_in_Penna]

I imagine it would have been nice years ago to be

in the market for a new premium car:  20 colors to

choose from;  custom colors for a few hundred

dollars extra;  15 to 17 different vinyl roof colors

to match or contrast with the paint;  3 different types

of cloth, plus leather, for the seats, in 8 different colors.

 

Even more fun would be owning a large dealership and 

ordering cars with such a vast array to choose from.

 

It would have been fun.  It would almost entice me into

designing my own combination and getting a new car for myself.

But on second thought, NO.  I'd still be too thrifty and would

probably have kept to my used car-antique car principle!

[Pilgrim65]

Agree with lots of the logic and common sense illustrated in this thread , but sometimes you have to go with you heart , blew big chunk of my retirement funds $30k on 1953 Buick special convertible , real beauty , so won't be buying a new car , but very happy with situation, will be keeping my 6 year old juke . Mind you agree with comments made on here , brand new cars just a waste of money , worth $3 k less as soon as you drive off forecourt . 2/3 years old much better value, but would love to be able to pick up a new 500sec merc if I had the money to waste! In my dreams!

cheers

pilgrim

[mercer09]

John is spot on, as usual.

 

I drive a 5k pickup though and put all the rest into classics and antiques. You can find very inexpensive everyday drivers like my ugly 93 taurus for 1500. that has 50k original miles.

it takes me anywhere i want to go or need to go and I have a triple A policy that allows me one 200 mile tow and 3 100 mile tows. have never needed the towing, but worth having.

between the truck and taurus- always have a good vehicle to run and then the rest of the cash goes to grins! brass, woodies and the rest....................

[peyton]

My wife and I have three cars --- her driver is a 1990 Chevy Lumina 3.1 with a/c. We bought it for $1000. It was her mother's old car. Everything works except the "low coolant light".  I've basically learned how to do a lot of the maintenance on the car so it's a hell of a lot cheaper than driving a newer car. My driver is a 1973 std VW Beetle --- of course no a/c. There's all kind of arguments on VW forums about the efficacy of old Beetles making good DD's. Well, I've put 75k miles on it since I bought it and it's nearing the 200k mark. I love it! 

 

Waiting in our garage is the ultimate back up car --- a 1931 Model A tudor. I drive the car in Jacksonville traffic without problems. We've put over 50k miles on it since 1994. I do believe I could rely on it as a DD if I had to. But, after all, it's 85 years old and deserves a break every now and then. The Beetle and Model A are quite similar when it comes to driving ease and amenities. However, the Lumina feels like a Cadillac after driving the older cars!   

[Vila]

I am a used car / antique car owner also.

 

I generally buy my daily drivers when they are 3 to 5 years old with 36,000 to 60,000 miles on them, although I have bought a daily drivers 1992 Saab 900 Turbo with 85,000 miles back in 1999.  Then I usually drive them for 300,000 miles or more, when I call the junk man to come an haul them away.

 

My current daily driver is a 2002 BMW Z3 that I got in 2008 for $13,000 and my wife daily driver is a 2003 Mini Cooper S we got in 2006 for $19,000.  The Cooper is the most expensive used car I have ever bought, but the wife wanted it so what can I say.  The woman who owned the Z3 lived in Germany for 3 years and had the car in storage during that time.

 

I do all the maintenance and repair work on my cars.  When I buy a daily driver, the next thing I do is buy the factory repair manual and I the correct code reader.  I recently had a sensor go bad on my Z3 and the code reader told me the issue.  I bought the Intake Cam Sensor and installed it in less than 2 hours after it arrived in the mail. 

 

 

[padgett]

When married I bought my wife several new cars but usually did not buy new ones for myself, (before the 2012 Jeep my previous new car was a '78 Sunbird).

 

Guess am odd, only buy a car if can pay cash and have a space in the garage. The current herd is in my .sig.

 

Last car I bought was more of a rescue of a very low production (under 50) car. Will probably sell two if I find the right XLR but have not depreciated enough yet.

[John348]

I have always bought my wife a new car every 4 years and myself one every 5 years, I am coming up at the five year point now for myself, and I will get another Sierra 2500 Diesel HD, this time 2WD, I never use the 4WD and it sits about 7 inches higher then the 2WD. I might be compressing the timeline on my wife's vehicle. She always had Cadillacs or Buick's with a few Yukon's in between. I had gotten her a CTS last year and I don't like it I find it way too small and difficult for me to get in and out of, it is not the Cadillac I know! I find that I have more room in my Cosworth Vega.  I think I am going to take the big hit on it and trade it in at the end of this year. There are just no more big American cars out there anymore, so it might be back to an SUV for her, the few times I do ride in it I need to be able to get in and out of it, without swearing.

While my old cars have a place in my life, so do my new ones. We all have heard "They don't make them like they used to" and it is good that they don't, the creature comforts on the new cars are really nice! engines run to 200,000 miles with little to no trouble at all

Edited September 7, 2016 by John348 (see edit history)

[John348]

I would not mind a new Jaguar F Type, I just saw one and that thing looked hot! Just have to trade it in after 4 years before the problem$ begin

[Bleach]

I've sworn to never buy a new car again. Last one was an Acura in 2006 and we still have it and it's been a great car so far. It has less than 40K miles so far so my wife should be OK for a while. The depreciation is what's been terrible but I can not justify buying a new car every 5 years.

The main reason is I don't like the technology in new cars or for that matter over the last 20 years. I don't think all the complex electronics can remain dependable for over 20 years. Case and point is my daily driver 2001 Crown Victoria. It's been having a random stumble for the last few months and no codes are coming up. It runs and drives great most of them time. I've changed the the most basic items with no improvement. The next thing would be to throw $250-$300 for a new set of ignition coils to see if it helps but I don't like throwing that kind of money at something that isn't a sure thing. So much for the OBD if it can't tell me what's causing it. I've been trying to aggravate the issue so it would throw a code but so far no luck.

My 1994 F150 can't be worked on without breaking any of it's electrical connectors breaking. The same is starting to happen with the Crown Vic.

My next daily driver will be something simple and old.

[39BuickEight]

I bought one new vehicle, a 2003 Silverado.  Never again.  I was young and senseless.  I'd rather spend the money on something that doesn't lose value so fast.  My wife drives a 2002 Acura MDX that we will have until it dies.  We only put around 7500 miles a year on it.  Then I will find another good used mid-sized 7 passenger SUV, probably another Acura.  I drive a company car that we can also use when I'm off and just pay for gas.  If I had the money to burn, then, sure, I'd want a new car, but I don't.  We are a family of 5, and I am the only bread winner.  I want to finish my Buick, build, a second garage, and find a screaming deal on a C5 ZR1 Corvette first.

 

Thanks to a previous job, I am fortunate to know a really good car wholesaler and several dealership owners, so I don't pay much for my late model used cars.  I wish I knew him when I bought my truck.

 

I'm also looking at helping my son with a used Crown Vic from the local police auction soon.  Hard to beat for $1200.

[John348]

1 hour ago, Bleach said:

. I don't think all the complex electronics can remain dependable for over 20 years. Case and point is my daily driver 2001 Crown Victoria. It's been having a random stumble for the last few months and no codes are coming up. It runs and drives great most of them time. I've changed the the most basic items with no improvement. The next thing would be to throw $250-$300 for a new set of ignition coils to see if it helps but I don't like throwing that kind of money at something that isn't a sure thing..

 

That is the reason I get rid of them after 4-5 years, I really don't have the time to waste or even the interest trouble shooting my everyday transportation. Right now my new Cadillac is sitting in the dealer while they are trying to fix the radio, I got a loaner so I could care less, but we all know that radio will be causing someone some problems in a few years after I trade it in. 

90% of the time I found used cars are just someone else's headache, that I don't want.

[60FlatTop]

I started looking at new Silverado's to replace my '05 that I bought new and have 150K +. I told my son I might need three more before I go under. But this topic has turned from the first idea of buying a $30,000 Camaro and the original lame thoughts associated with it.

 

Conceptually, I think the idea of a pristine collector car being a better buy than a new car. It wasn't aimed at used cars opposed to new. I think the answer is, no, even if you are looking at a crappy new car. That Camaro mentioned would be an albatross around your neck on today's roads in rush hour traffic.  I see that original link is down. I read some of the stuff when it worked. I think it was written by the guy who walks around cruise nights and points out trivial discrepancies in originality and touches flaws on owner's cars.(Most of them have to reach out a finger and touch the flaw they found. Over time, an observant person would conclude that touch was the only sense "those people" could be sure of. And we all pretty much recognize him from 20 feet as he approaches.

 

My old cars are special to drive. Using one for work and daily transport would make it  not special. I wouldn't drop a laundry basket off at my mistress's apartment!

Bernie

[padgett]

Heck, I've got electronics (well tube radios) that just need a tuneup after 75 years. The 88 Reatta is 28 years old, has electronic modules stuffed everywhere including the trunk (and has a touchscreen in the dash) and everything works. I have three PCs that are over 30 that work fine.

 

True, some electronics (particularly pre 1975 capacitors) need to be replaced and I generally rewire filament strings to run 10% under spec. but most are built better and are more resistant to voltage surges than modern stuff - after the EMP I'll still have shortwave radios and at least one car and a generator that will still work (and enough spare parts for the others including one that can run on alky.

 

Can understand people who mistrust electronics, just growing up with computers and fast cars tend to have no worries.

[maok]

I reckon a 1st generation Toyota Prius would be a good bet.

 

The 2nd generation is the more familiar shape.

 

[1937hd45]

I'm very happy with my 1999 Oldsmobile, but still day dream of having a Mini Cooper for a day or weekend. Someone must rent them some were. They look like a fun car to drive.  Bob

[mercer09]

1937-was thinking the same about renting an open jeep-but dont see that in NJ-would like a week to test drive one and pay the rental fee.

[Digger914]

If I was going to use a classic for a daily driver, I would have to go with the Model T.

In the major metropolitan areas securing your valuable new car from theft is always a matter of some concern and it’s easier to steal a brand new electronic keyless car than it is to steal one you have to crank to start. Gone in Sixty Seconds is more than the name of a movie, it’s the rule of stealing a car. Even if you know how to start a Model T and get it from reverse to first, it takes more than 60 seconds to start and steal.

New cars have push button cruise controls, the Model T has a mechanical speed lever on the steering column. You can’t use your new car cruise control driving to work in rush hour traffic and a brand new car has your foot is constantly moving from gas peddle to brake. The Model T has no gas peddle and it has no trouble maintaining the constant 3mph of the inner city freeway at rush hour.

New cars have computer controlled engines that get very good gas mileage. The economical 4 cylinder engine of the Model T will run on almost anything that burns, even the smoke from smoldering wood, a very British thing to do during WW2.

New cars are made to drive on well paved roads, the Model T was made to drive before roads were paved and given the way that some of our roads look today, the Model T is a much better choice than expensive, modern and new.

 

 

[padgett]

I need something with AC.

[Paul Dobbin]

At a cars owned count of over 100 in the last 50 years, only one was new.  In 2006 we bought a new one to replace the 66 VW as a Motor-home toad.  Still have both, but will never buy another new one.  The 2006 was purchased for flat towabiltiy and automatic transmission and A/C.   Like  John_S_Penna, we buy good 5 + year old rides for specific uses and try to get low mileage.  That first 5 years depreciation will eat anybody's  budget and it's only new until you get it home. 

i think the same applies to older restoration in the antique car class.  To me it's more cost effective than doing full restorations at today's prices.  (In 1981 I restored a 1915 Model T Touring and the paint material costs alone were higher than the 1915 new price of the whole car, today it would be 4X that original cost)   Like new cars, a fresh restoration is only a #1 until you show it the first time.  Buy a #2 or #3 and fix the flaws yourself, then drive it, drive and drive it.  Read my tag line.