Is "Flipping" dishonest, morally wrong, despicable, mean, detestable, vile, or illegal ???

[TAKerry]

I kinda agree with that statement, but no one is saying that people are flipping cars for a high profit. It may take selling quite a few cars to make a decent living. As far as houses go, I can look at a newly listed home and in a matter of seconds know that its a flip. You are spot on regarding quality of materials and more important quality of construction.

[Reicholzheimer]

Can't wait till I start flipping at Hershey. Mostly all advertising items. 

[ABear]

Flippers would not be flipping if they were not making enough money back from their "investment".

 

Collectors on the other hand, buy what they like, tend to be willing to put more time, money and better materials into what they bought because they want to enjoy what they bought. For the most part with no consideration or intention of flipping the item off. Because of that, when it comes to a point they want to sell, they might get a slight or no profit at all when labor and materials are figured in.. Generally I suspect many collectors would lose their shirts if they were to adopt a flippers speed of buying cheap roached out vehicles fixing them and turning them out for sale.

 

Different mentality between a collector who's goal is to collect and keep vs a flipper who's goal is to buy low, fix cheap and sell for max profit.

 

Collectors tend to be willing to put a considerable amount of time and money into a project because they like it or sentimentally attached to it even though the end result will be a very nicely restored item that they will enjoy for many yrs and most likely might just break even if they are lucky many yrs down the road. To a collector, it is a HOBBY

 

Flippers on the other hand, may not always like it, are not typically sentimentally attached but they realize there is a market for it to make easy money QUICKLY and because of that they are free to take shortcuts, fix only what shows which while it looks good on the surface, it quickly degrades back to the hunk of junk after the sale. To a flipper, it is strictly a business. But, hey, at least the flipper earned a good healthy profit from it.

 

For myself, I buy and keep what I like so I am willing to put more time and money into a project that will never return more than what I bought it for as it is a HOBBY to me, not a business.

[Matt Harwood]

How do I get in on this "high profit" car selling thing? That sounds awesome.

[John_S_in_Penna]

Here's an example of reselling I just noticed

on the internet.  This is a case, in my opinion,

of a dealer's needless involvement that only

raises the price and performs no useful service:

 

This 1973 Lincoln sold at a summer GAA auction

for $14,000.  It's now for resale by a dealer, about

a week later, for a ludicrous $31,900.  The dealer is

even reusing pictures from before he bought it.

See picture below, and links.

https://www.classic.com/a/gaa-july-2024-kn3PXPW/lots/1973-lincoln-continental-47KbRX4

https://www.primoclassicsllc.com/vehicles/847/1973-lincoln-continental

 

Edited August 2 by John_S_in_Penna (see edit history)

[ABear]

46 minutes ago, Matt Harwood said:

How do I get in on this "high profit" car selling thing? That sounds awesome.

Simple, buy something then don't fix it right and only fix the things that are visually seen enough to sell and let the buyer find the rest of the issues down the road..

 

I believe you do have one of those cars ('35 Lincoln) that had lots of well hidden "treasures" that cost you both arms and legs and perhaps kidney and your hair and mind? Someone (the seller?) knew about the problems that car had, yet never disclosed it, for the average person a very devastating potential financial disaster.

 

I give you Props for not doing what I would have done, like taking a sledge hammer to that car.. It is beautiful, a job well done but it will be forevermore a painful thorn in your side even if you were to manage to sell it at a huge loss.

Edited August 2 by ABear (see edit history)

[Bhigdog]

Actually the middle man did perform a service.....He paid the seller his asking price.

He then had to pay a premium, put HIS money at risk, lose the time value of HIS money, pay HIS over head, and of course pay the IRS thier vig.

What ever is left over is his cut of the deal.

With any luck he won,t have to cut out a nice slice for his ex wife who, at this very moment, is enjoying the beach with her latest boy friend.....bob

Edited August 2 by Bhigdog (see edit history)

[arcticbuicks]

just so nobody here gets accused of being a flipper.......when you go to sell your vintage car......just make sure you sell it for less than it cost new.....anyone thinking of selling a Dietrich ?

[Ben Bruce aka First Born]

Just now, arcticbuicks said:

just so nobody here gets accused of being a flipper.......when you go to sell your vintage car......just make sure you sell it for less than it cost new.....anyone thinking of selling a Dietrich ?

 

 BRAVO!😆

 

  Ben

[John_S_in_Penna]

59 minutes ago, Bhigdog said:

Actually the middle man did perform a service.....He paid the seller his asking price.

He then had to pay a premium, put HIS money at risk, lose the time value of HIS money, pay HIS over head... 

And the end result of buying at auction

and trying to double the money in a week is--what?

The same car, in a new location, at a price

which many would-be hobbyists can't afford.

He performed a service, but one that wasn't needed!

[Bhigdog]

20 minutes ago, John_S_in_Penna said:

And the end result of buying at auction

and trying to double the money in a week is--what?

The same car, in a new location, at a price

which many would-be hobbyists can't afford.

He performed a service, but one that wasn't needed!

But EVERYONE had an equal opportunity to buy that car.

There was no subterfuge or deceipt involved.

He stepped up and put his money where his mouth is.

He did the seller a service by running the price up to EXACTLY what that car was worth at that time and place.

The car may or may not sell for what he is asking. Time will tell.

But when it does sell it will be for  exactly what it,s worth at that time and place.

Suggesting that cars must be traded  below some arbitrary price point to satisfy a good of the hobby fantasy  is just that....bob

 

 

 

 

[ABear]

Auctions only work when you have two different bidders that absolutely "have to have it" are are willing to dig extra deep in their pockets to have it..

 

On the flip side though is when you have a "shill bidder" tossed into the mix to artificially raise the selling price on purpose.. And yes that is a thing.

[Ben Bruce aka First Born]

36 minutes ago, ABear said:

Auctions only work when you have two different bidders that absolutely "have to have it" are are willing to dig extra deep in their pockets to have it..

 

On the flip side though is when you have a "shill bidder" tossed into the mix to artificially raise the selling price on purpose.. And yes that is a thing.

 

 Excuse me.   What does that have to do with the subject of THIS thread?

 

  Ben

[rocketraider]

3 hours ago, John_S_in_Penna said:

This 1973 Lincoln sold at a summer GAA auction

for $14,000.  It's now for resale by a dealer, about

a week later, for a ludicrous $31,900.  The dealer is

even reusing pictures from before he bought it.

 

Daresay the auction company had to beg that $14k.

 

I'll sometimes watch the GAA on tv, and I've attended in person a few times (hey, it's a good excuse to go eat barbecue at Stamey's!). But I have noticed that most of their commentators are, to be kind, ignorant about most cars crossing the GAA block. OK- I'll say it. They don't know diddly squat about even popular and easily documented cars.

[1932 plymouth pb sedan]

I went to a license plate auction about 10 years ago that had thousands of plates from a well-known deceased collector, it consisted of only half of this guy's collection. As it turns out a close friend of his purchased the other half of the collection from the widow telling her how he would love to have his friend's plates and would mean the world to him, turns out he sold them immediately for a huge profit. To me this would be called "Theft by deception". 

I have no problem with people making money and I have purchased from flippers, it's all good if it was not deceptive from the beginning.

[ABear]

2 hours ago, Ben Bruce aka First Born said:

 

 Excuse me.   What does that have to do with the subject of THIS thread?

 

  Ben

THIS?

 

4 hours ago, John_S_in_Penna said:

And the end result of buying at auction

and trying to double the money in a week is--what?

The same car, in a new location, at a price

which many would-be hobbyists can't afford.

He performed a service, but one that wasn't needed!

And ended with..

 

 

3 hours ago, Bhigdog said:

But EVERYONE had an equal opportunity to buy that car.

There was no subterfuge or deceipt involved.

He stepped up and put his money where his mouth is.

He did the seller a service by running the price up to EXACTLY what that car was worth at that time and place.

The car may or may not sell for what he is asking. Time will tell.

But when it does sell it will be for  exactly what it,s worth at that time and place.

Suggesting that cars must be traded  below some arbitrary price point to satisfy a good of the hobby fantasy  is just that....bob

 

 

 

 

 

Does that answer your question?

 

[Jim Skelly]

2 hours ago, 1932 plymouth pb sedan said:

I went to a license plate auction about 10 years ago that had thousands of plates from a well-known deceased collector, it consisted of only half of this guy's collection. As it turns out a close friend of his purchased the other half of the collection from the widow telling her how he would love to have his friend's plates and would mean the world to him, turns out he sold them immediately for a huge profit. To me this would be called "Theft by deception". 

vulture

[Dandy Dave]

All this talk about Flippin. I'm about ready to Flip Em all the Bird. 🙃🤪

[Rod P]

If 'The Twilight Zone' was still around, we might have witnessed a nasty flipper coming to a horrible end due to their dishonesty, and deception.🤔

[Ben Bruce aka First Born]

46 minutes ago, Dandy Dave said:

All this talk about Flippin. I'm about ready to Flip Em all the Bird. 🙃🤪

 

 Yeah, much ado about nothing, me thinks. 

 

  Ben

[TAKerry]

1 hour ago, Dandy Dave said:

All this talk about Flippin. I'm about ready to Flip Em all the Bird. 🙃🤪

Im thinkin' about some burgers on the grill!

[John_S_in_Penna]

On 8/2/2024 at 12:14 PM, John_S_in_Penna said:

Here's an example...

This 1973 Lincoln sold at a summer GAA auction

for $14,000.  It's now for resale by a dealer, about

a week later, for a ludicrous $31,900.

And for that absurd asking price, one likely isn't

paying to have a dealer of upstanding character,

a generous patron of the hobby, conscientiously

fixing deficiencies and standing behind his sales.

An internet site, with several customers' stories

of tremendous frustration, gives the dealer ONE star out of 5:

https://www.complaintsboard.com/primo-classics-international-b131644

 

Edited August 3 by John_S_in_Penna (see edit history)

[Peter Gariepy]

[Ben Bruce aka First Born]

51 minutes ago, Peter Gariepy said:

 

 

  Good one, Peter!😀

 

  Ben

[28 Chrysler]

I flipped cars and boats during and after high school. It was not hard for me to mark them up by 100% and sell them sometimes in less than 24 hours.

I did not take advantage of anyone. I would buy older cars from people my parents age for $25 to maybe $75 and they were glad they didn't have to pay to have it towed away.

There was always someone looking for a cheap running car or winter beater in the $100  - $200 range.

As for boats, many times in the fall I would get them for very little or nothing. Over the winter I would do any painting or repairs and have at least 2 or 3 ready for spring.

[Reicholzheimer]

8 hours ago, Peter Gariepy said:

Please Not Yet.  We need more opinons!

[JACK M]

20 hours ago, 28 Chrysler said:

I flipped cars and boats during and after high school. It was not hard for me to mark them up by 100% and sell them sometimes in less than 24 hours.

I did not take advantage of anyone. I would buy older cars from people my parents age for $25 to maybe $75 and they were glad they didn't have to pay to have it towed away.

There was always someone looking for a cheap running car or winter beater in the $100  - $200 range.

As for boats, many times in the fall I would get them for very little or nothing. Over the winter I would do any painting or repairs and have at least 2 or 3 ready for spring.

We must be related.

[Larry Schramm]

On 8/4/2024 at 12:41 PM, JACK M said:

We must be related.

 

Me too and I also fixed radios & TVs when you could actually fix them.

Edited August 6 by Larry Schramm (see edit history)

[8E45E]

On 8/2/2024 at 4:19 PM, Jim Skelly said:

vulture

Grave robber.

 

Craig

[mrcvs]

On 7/29/2024 at 1:52 PM, Matt Harwood said:

I have received numerous messages and E-mails from members of this very forum telling me how I am ruining "their" hobby with my business buying, selling, trading, and consigning old cars. It's largely why I don't list cars here anymore--I don't need the aggravation. While this thread seems to demonstrate that many of you think it's an OK practice, there are obviously quite a few guys who really do think it's despicable, mean, detestable, vile, and morally wrong. I think they're just angry that you can no longer buy a Model A Ford from an old farmer for $65 and want to blame me for it.

 

And if they get that pissed off about the rising costs of "their" hobby, we'd better not tell them about the mark-ups on clothing, furniture, carpet, and soda, which is likely the most profitable substance on earth.

 

It has long been my opinion that the buyer is the sole arbiter of whether something is priced properly. If the buyer believes he paid the right amount, then that's the right amount--what the seller paid for it is irrelevant. Obviously, if the buyer didn't think it was a fair price, he wouldn't buy. Sellers can likewise decide not to sell if they don't want to. Grownups have the right to make grownup decisions even if those decisions are sometimes grownup mistakes.

 

Just to make this post a little longer, I do have a conscience. A few years ago, a friend brought me a wonderful car, a car I had long expressed an interest in adding to my personal collection (the same song and dance many of you complain about, above). It was true, I really wanted the car and he suggested that I'd be able to afford it and he did indeed give me a number that was within reach. However, after doing some research into their values, I realized that the number he gave me was about 45% too low. I could not, in good conscience, buy the car for myself at the number he quoted, even though he's a grown man and an experienced hobbyist and I had no intention of reselling it. I told him as much, said that I couldn't afford it at its actual value, and eventually sold it to someone else for a market-correct price. I lost out on a car I really wanted, but I kept my friend's respect and my own integrity, which I felt was more valuable.

 

The car in question:

 

 

Now, would I have done this for a stranger? I'll be painfully honest and say I don't rightly know (especially since 99.8% of enthusiasts want too much for their cars, not too little).  But if I pay someone full asking price while simultaneously knowing it's not enough, is there even a crime? Everyone goes home happy, right?

 

Nevertheless, that question still keeps me up at night...

 

If your friend gives you a price he wants for an automobile and you meet that price without haggling, or even with haggling, and you want that automobile for your personal collection, I don’t see how you would have lost your friend’s respect.  He’s happy and you’re happy.  I don’t see a problem with that.  What I would have a problem with is you told your friend you wanted this automobile for your collection and then immediately flipped it—that’s wrong.

 

This is like on American Pickers when Mike & Frank sometimes find an object, the seller quotes a price, and they say that’s too low, and willingly pay more.  Why would you ever do that when inflation is rampant and it’s so difficult to even pay a fair price for anything anymore, and the risk of actually overpaying is far greater?  You need a great deal every now and again to offset the not so good ones and the downright bad ones.

 

This discussion came up on an antique firearms forum recently.  Usually a newbie, probably inherited an estate far greater in value than you will ever see in ten lifetimes, doesn’t appreciate a firearm with regards to its workmanship or history.  Probably raised to be afraid of firearms, inherits a few, probably would jump at a grand each—or less.  All they care about is the dollars, don’t want to do the research.  Why not let someone on the forum get a good deal, instead of telling them a firearm is worth 5 or 10k.  It then prices most of us out, the seller gets stubborn, wants top dollar, and the only one who benefits is the high end auction house where the firearm is sold at and the deep pocket bidder who is not an active and knowledgeable member of that forum.

 

I’m being realistic and candid.  I’m tired of the poor widow who needs top dollar, when is the last time you’ve seen a widow with a decent inheritance scraping by eating franks and beans?

 

Just to put it in perspective—I worked for an individual whose grandfather was a turn of the century industrialist.  His mother was this individual’s daughter.  When she died in 1936, her estate was worth $4.378 million—during a time when it was the Great Depression and $5 is a lot of money.  It was split amongst him, his 3 siblings, and his father.  And his father had his own fortune as an investment banker.

 

If someone offers you something for 10 cents on the dollar, especially it it originates from an inheritor who has many times more money than you’ll ever see in ten lifetimes, you shouldn’t feel guilty.  You should leap!

[mikewest]

On 8/2/2024 at 11:52 AM, Matt Harwood said:

How do I get in on this "high profit" car selling thing? That sounds awesome.

Stop buying Lincolns. 

[John_S_in_Penna]

On 8/3/2024 at 9:16 PM, Reicholzheimer said:

Please Not Yet.  We need more opinons!

Absolutely!  How is the "horse" dead when

the practice is still going on, and some resellers

are cheating people?

 

I just came across another instance of less-than-

honorable reselling.  A 1970 Lincoln coupe (not a

Mark III) sold at a Mecum auction for $12,500.

The owner was afterward at a Lincoln event and

said he had restored it and it had over 100,000

miles.  A dealer bought it, and may have had

to fix a scrape (from my comparison of before and

after pictures.)  The dealer is now asking $32,000

and REPRESENTING IT AS HAVING 30,000 MILES.

 

Wouldn't you want to buy from the man who

restored it, knew it, and represented it honestly?

 

Edited August 12 by John_S_in_Penna (see edit history)

[Crusty Trucker]

4 hours ago, John_S_in_Penna said:

Absolutely!  How is the "horse" dead when

the practice is still going on, and some resellers

are cheating people?

 

I just came across another instance of less-than-

honorable reselling.  A 1970 Lincoln coupe (not a

Mark III) sold at a Mecum auction for $12,500.

The owner was afterward at a Lincoln event and

said he had restored it and it had over 100,000

miles.  A dealer bought it, and may have had

to fix a scrape (from my comparison of before and

after pictures.)  The dealer is now asking $32,000

and REPRESENTING IT AS HAVING 30,000 MILES.

 

Wouldn't you want to buy from the man who

restored it, knew it, and represented it honestly?

 

 

For every crooked dealer out there there are probably scores more crooked owner/sellers.

"You pays your money and you takes your chances"

 

Regarding the dealer markup mentioned, there's no telling if or for how much the dealer ever sold the car for. Nothing wrong with a profit, small or large. He didn't cheat the seller.

Messing with the mileage IS usually illegal and should be reported.

[Jack Bennett]

To build a economy, support a military, build roads, schools, churches and support other programs essential to support a strong and viable nation, I spent 44 years of my life in the labor force.

I didn’t have to like a single aspect of what I done, where I done it, or for whom I did it, I just girded up my loins and said “Yes Sir, Yes, Three bags full Sir”, and spent 21 years in the Army, five of them in a combat zone, and 19 years tending the errant children of those who were happy to relegate their custody to a State Prison.

It was a matter of survival, for me, my family, my community and my nation, so I worked throughout the most memorable years of my life.

And then I got older, and had risen to the state that I felt that my vocational responsibilities were more aptly handed to the generation who hungered to raise their family in a community, within a nation with a enviable economy, a strong military, good roads and highways necessary for a strong commercial infrastructure, a well structured educational system with good curriculum and schools, churches to provide spiritual and emotional support to a stressed society and all the other programs me, and countless others who had contributed their youth and health to assuring this was a real possibility.

Choices were now available to choose the manner in which I completed the last phase of a life devoted to the betterment of the lives of others and assurance of the right to raise and fly flag of our own nation.

Surely it was acceptable to join those who used drugs to wake, walk and sleep, or warm a stool at the local bar until it closed and sleep was replaced by a drunken stupor, or, as many do, just let my health go to hell and let MEDICAID take over my expenses.

Or, I could start a hobby, perhaps the restoration or reanimation of a old car, a old truck or even a old tractor.

But the obstacle here is that the opportunistic “picker” who has decided “flipping” those parts, which were previously “hoarded” in the, then, isolated barn, of the now deceased, which are essential to the pursuit of my new “hobby”.

Now, on the reduced income of a non-employable retiree, my old Dodge will never be started because “Junior” has turned a part, totally worthless to 99.9% of society, into a income producing (non-taxed or licensed) business which requires a $500.00 fee for a starter which would cost less than $100.00 for a newer car.

This spiel has nothing to do with my financial ability to buy the part, but it does have a wealth of words to say about the ethics of the “flipper”.

And, in reality, it is their children which are being denied being introduced ro the hobby of antique car restoration solely because they are being priced out of the hobby.

Jack

[Jack Bennett]

I am planning the trip of 144 mils between Lakewood and Bellingham, Washington to pick up a radiator and cowling I need to complete the mechanical part of reanimating the 1929 Fargo Express Panel truck I have adopted as a hobby project.

The price placed on these objects, which I had given up on finding elsewhere, was $0.00, which includes their transportation from Burnaby, Canada, across the Border, and to Bellingham by the contributing fellow AACA member.

This unsolicited act of kindness, and the reminder we, as a very fragile and admittedly tenuous society, does more to inspire and invigorate me than 1000 years in a counselors office, paid for with public funds, to tell me why getting old is such a bummer.

When I acquired my 1923 Dodge Roadster as another hobby project, I bought it as part of the estate sale of a avid antique car restoration artist.

Along with the basket case 1923, I was given nearly enough body parts, still marked with what I presume was Hershey pricing, to build four more complete car bodies. These were found to be from 1924 and 1925 vintage cars, and became excess to completing my 1923 Dodge Roadster.

Several of the doors, the cowlings,, the hood sections, the running board support and the roof support structures were marked several hundred dollars, along with their application.

I put a ad on Craigslist offering them, as a load, or singuarly, for free to the first one who claimed them.

Within 15 minutes of posting them on Craigslist, a truck was heard backing through my gate, and a few minutes later all the parts, including several clutches, a 25 gallon container of new timing chain parts and two complete transmissions were gone.

A bit later I was informed by a friend as to “How very stupid” I was because the parts were probably resold at Hershey, or on eBay, at the ridiculous prices already painted on them.

The age of grace is over…………

Jack

Edited August 14 by Jack Bennett (see edit history)

[Peter Gariepy]

On 8/12/2024 at 8:54 AM, John_S_in_Penna said:

Absolutely!  How is the "horse" dead when

the practice is still going on, and some resellers

are cheating people?

The whole topic is rhetorical, like beating a dead horse.

 

Will people buy cars to resell them at a profit? Absolutely. That’s the essence of every single used car lot! It’s no different for classic car resellers. How does that suddenly make them “dishonest, morally wrong, despicable, mean, detestable, vile, or illegal”? There are plenty of arguments around this, but none change the fact that flippers exist. A better word for them is “capitalist.”

 

“Cheating people”? How? Since when did common sense and caveat emptor stop applying?

 

Don’t like flippers? Fine! Just don’t buy from them!

 

 

[Jack Bennett]

30 minutes ago, Peter Gariepy said:

The entire topic is rhetorical, ie beating a dead horse.

 

Will people buy cars to resell them at a profit?  ABSOLUTELY. That is the lifeblood of EVERY SINGLE SOLITARY USED CAR LOT! No different for classic car resellers.  How does that somehow make them "dishonest, morally wrong, despicable, mean, detestable, vile, and illegal"?  There are 3 screens to this topic, but they don't/won't/can't change the fact that flippers exist. A better word to describe them is "capitalist".
 

Don't like a flipper?  Great!  Don't buy from them!

The word most key to the relevance of this post is “equity”.

Several mentions are made regarding the renewal, restoration, repair, original purchase price, cost of transportation, storage and shipping, and the million other things which may add a seemingly exponential cost, to a otherwise unavailable part.

And addition of these costs are easily understandable when included in the resale price affixed to the sale price of a part.

However, not understandable is how a person, so very concerned with a Nelson Rockefeller profit margin, while doing something, they freely chose to do, which equates to shopping for food products for resale in a kosher restaurant.

It is a matter of fun, enjoyment relaxation, maintenance of an acceptable image and using the opportunity to meet and join others participating in a hobby. The decision to make this opportunity for a relaxing an fulfilling hobby into a profit taking vocation is a purely personal choice, but I firmly believe that Sis or Junior is better off working at a decent starting minimum wage than the inflated salary required to buy a $165.00 fuel pump, and either working overtime to buy the fuel lines, or simply stealing them or trashing the Mustang as a highly profitable “parts donor”, with the fuel pump being sourced for $165.00 to another teen “flipping” hamburgers for a reasonable minimum wage.

Jack

Edited August 14 by Jack Bennett (see edit history)

[Jack Bennett]

33 minutes ago, Peter Gariepy said:

The entire topic is rhetorical, ie beating a dead horse.

 

Will people buy cars to resell them at a profit?  ABSOLUTELY. That is the lifeblood of EVERY SINGLE SOLITARY USED CAR LOT! No different for classic car resellers.  How does that somehow make them "dishonest, morally wrong, despicable, mean, detestable, vile, and illegal"?  There are 3 screens to this topic, but they don't/won't/can't change the fact that flippers exist. A better word to describe them is "capitalist".
 

Don't like a flipper?  Great!  Don't buy from them!

And, forums such as AACA and WOKR goes dark due to no member interest. And, hopefully, the admin’s of these sites find a equal amount of pleasure in moderating a basket weaving or Yoga site.

I call them people who are essential to keeping the hobby alive since we do need scarce, and sometime exotic parts, and making a thousand mile road trip to find the needed parts is not considered a enjoyable part of the hobby.

Likewise, being a machinist, welder, metal or wood fabricator or other professional, does not entitle the person to expect to paid a exorbitant amount to mend the bumper of my 1927 Willys as compared to what they would charge for the same amount of materials, skill and labor necessary to mend the bumper on my Pinto, Vega or Geo Meteo.

It is about ethics, which is rapidly becoming a extinct word.

Jack

[John_S_in_Penna]

51 minutes ago, Peter Gariepy said:

The whole topic is rhetorical, like beating a dead horse.

“Cheating people”? How? Since when did common sense and caveat emptor stop applying?

Don’t like flippers? Fine! Just don’t buy from them!

I'm in agreement with some of your points, Peter.

Don't buy from them!

 

We've also distinguished between ordinary flippers

and the less-than-honorable.  We've also pointed out

dealers who have tremendously satisfied customers,

and others who evidently lie and cheat.  No topic is merely

rhetorical if we follow up our disdain with proper action.

 

NO ONE HERE SHOULD BE TEMPTED TO OVERLOOK,

EXCUSE, OR DISMISS WRONG-DOING, or blame a victim

who was at the wrong end of a fraudulent transaction.

 

Edited August 14 by John_S_in_Penna (see edit history)

[JamesR]

Flipping isn't dishonest, but flippers (in the common use of the term) rarely see themselves as the stewards of old cars. This is a CONTRAST to most/many dealers who specialize in selling antique vehicles. There's nothing at all wrong with profit, as many of these dealers make, but my advice to old car purchasers is to stay away from fly by night flippers who haven't invested dearly in equipment, experience,  property and establishing a good reputation. Cheap repairs and a lack of appreciation for reasonable originality are two if the issues you run into with flippers.   I'm trying to sell one of my old cars, and I'll lose a fair bit of money (by my standards) but I can honestly say that I've improved the car from the condition I got it in.

 

Quote

Don’t like flippers? Fine! Just don’t buy from them!

 

True, but just as people have the right to be flippers, other people have the right to think negatively about them and voice their opinions.