Is it really that difficult to find a local mechanic that's willing to work on these older cars?

[Hazdaz]

This will be a mild rant because I know a lot of you guys do your own wrenching, but I simply don't have the time for this anymore.  Brought the Riv to a local mechanic who is right down the street.  You can tell they are excited to check the old car out, but they dont really seem set up to work on these old cars.  They did some diagnosing of my issues and noticed some leaks.  Suggested I hit up another shop in town.  Went there and lo and behold they don't really work in these older cars.  Suggested I try another guy that's local, and again the guy seemed fine and all, but he wasn't set up for this kind of work. 

 

I find it funny how these cars tend to be more mechanically simple than modern cars, and yet mechanics don't really want to touch them.  None of the issues wrong with the car are particularly huge issues, but collectively if I tried doing them myself in the backyard, I'd probably miss the rest of the summer since the car would be apart. 

 

Here's a short list of some of the stuff we noticed when my local mechanic checked the car out.  (And to be clear, I am sure there are other things,but these were the more pressing ones)

 

Rear pinion seal leaking, rear diff - might need to rebuild diff.  Rear wheel bearings were noisy.  Driver side tie rod bushing was shot and front driver bearing was noisy.  I've also been told I need new tires, and while it stops fine for now, I know new brakes will be needed. 

 

I'm in southern CT so I'm curious if anyone knows of a local mechanic that touches these old Buicks.  And if not, what do you guys do in your area?  Not everyone wants to or has time to turn wrenches, so I can't imagine everyone here does their own maintenance.   if I can't find someone, I guess I'll be forced to DIY it, but I have enough other projects to do already. 

 

[rocketraider]

The big problem as I see it is that shops are set up to work using flat rate job pricing. If they don't have any  reference for how long a job should take, they don't know how to charge for the work.

 

Most mechanics now are in the 20 to 40 year old age range. Meaning they've never worked on anything before 1990s and quite simply don't understand older technology they can't diagnose with a laptop computer.

 

If they'll take it at all a lot of 'em want to use your car as filler work.

 

And, a lot of them are afraid of old car owners. They view us as fussy. Some unfortunately view us as cash cows too.

[NTX5467]

The "problem" is that FEW modern mechanics (now "techs") really know HOW to work on pre-1990s vehicles, much less KNOW what they are looking at when they see them.

 

Few auto supplies have the parts readily available, in stock, so that means "time" to the shops, too.

 

ON the plus side, they can probably do some things like change belts or an alternator, with a little looking to see what's involved.  Might even get the tension in the ballpark for the belts, too!  If they wonder, there might be a YouTube video on some things, too.

 

Finding a good mechanic who has set up a small shop for "retirement money" and to keep busy can be GOLD.  Just have to find them and get scheduled in.  This can vary from metro area to metro area, though.

 

Good Luck,

NTX5467

[XframeFX]

I concur.

As to your rear axle, the hotchkiss design lends to easy service. Those axles slide out, no C-Clips, 3rd member is then easily removed. Mark the pinion nut before removal. There's no crush sleeve between pinion bearings. Replace that seal, Easy!

[Pat Curran]

5 hours ago, XframeFX said:

I concur.

As to your rear axle, the hotchkiss design lends to easy service. Those axles slide out, no C-Clips, 3rd member is then easily removed. Mark the pinion nut before removal. There's no crush sleeve between pinion bearings. Replace that seal, Easy!

I know you are in Southern CT but there is a shop in Eastford, CT (Latham Automotive) that has been working on my 1966 Corvette for the last 8 years.

Also, just over the border in Dudley, MA is a shop that specializes in old vehicles.  It is called Rob’s Automotive and I have used them as well. 
These aren’t exactly in your back yard but if you are out of options, they are within a reasonable drive.

[1965rivgs]

  The '60's cars are technically VERY easy to work on. As a recently retired tech that was servicing cutting edge technology like adaptive cruise control and accident avoidance technology, I view working on '60's cars like working on a sophisticated go cart, at least from a technical viewpoint.

  There are multiple reasons why servicing antique cars is a PITA for a shop. Those reasons include parts availability, the delays associated with obtaining parts IF they are available, all the while that interesting old car sits on the rack taking up space and time which could be producing revenue.

  Servicing your rear diff is a perfect example. Parts for your diff are not only difficult to determine but are also difficult to obtain. And before anyone comments that Rockauto "has it all", it is just not that simple. And if your diff seal turns into needing pinion bearings and a ring/pinion gear set, which is considered unobtanium, your car sits on the rack for two weeks before the shop realizes they can't obtain the parts to properly complete the repair.   Then, how much is the customer willing to pay for a shop to disassemble and reassemble the diff without actually fixing the issue?

  There are MANY other reasons including owner particularity, peculiarity and unreasonable expectations that make working on antique cars a PITA and a second choice for a late model repair shop.  

  If you do find a shop, the determining factor will more likely be a passionate connection to antique cars and not technical hurdles that will determine whether they will accept the work, or not.

Good luck!

Tom Mooney

Edited July 15 by 1965rivgs (see edit history)

[EmTee]

Maybe talk to @telriv?

[60FlatTop]

2 hours ago, 1965rivgs said:

There are MANY other reasons including owner particularity, peculiarity and unreasonable expectations that make working on antique cars a PITA and a second choice for a late model repair shop.  

Amen. Just another ten minute job. A wave of the hand and that will be done.

 

I remember one of those salmon colored '54 Fords with a leather interior coming in for blowing fuses on the taillights and poor engine performance. I snipped off the wires that had been welded to the fender well patch and pulled new. Purchased and replaced the vacuum advance unit, and tuned. The owner accused me of grossly overcharging and told everyone he knew. Four years later he showed up at my house. He had taken the car to a "better" person who had left his car parked in a field with the power windows down. A raccoon had nested in the car and there was extensive water damage. He asked me to come with him to retrieve the car and what recourse he had for the damage.

 

I wonder how he made out. My interest in servicing other than my own cars waned yet another level.

[gungeey]

In addition, vintage car owners are intimate with every pimple and light scuff mark on their prized possession. Fingerprints on the fender, a smudge on the drivers seat... the customer is livid. 

A lot of shops will no longer entertain that due to past experiences. 

 

[JZRIV]

3 hours ago, 1965rivgs said:

  The '60's cars are technically VERY easy to work on. As a recently retired tech that was servicing cutting edge technology like adaptive cruise control and accident avoidance technology, I view working on '60's cars like working on a sophisticated go cart, at least from a technical viewpoint.

  There are multiple reasons why servicing antique cars is a PITA for a shop. Those reasons include parts availability, the delays associated with obtaining parts IF they are available, all the while that interesting old car sits on the rack taking up space and time which could be producing revenue.

  Servicing your rear diff is a perfect example. Parts for your diff are not only difficult to determine but are also difficult to obtain. And before anyone comments that Rockauto "has it all", it is just not that simple. And if your diff seal turns into needing pinion bearings and a ring/pinion gear set, which is considered unobtanium, your car sits on the rack for two weeks before the shop realizes they can't obtain the parts to properly complete the repair.   Then, how much is the customer willing to pay for a shop to disassemble and reassemble the diff without actually fixing the issue?

  There are MANY other reasons including owner particularity, peculiarity and unreasonable expectations that make working on antique cars a PITA and a second choice for a late model repair shop.  

  If you do find a shop, the determining factor will more likely be a passionate connection to antique cars and not technical hurdles that will determine whether they will accept the work, or not.

Good luck!

Tom Mooney

I was going to post my comment, but Tom took the words out of my mouth! Exactly 100% perfectly said. In light of this service void situation today, it helps explain why so many have old cars but don't drive them. Buying an old car is only the price of admission. If one doesn't have the time, place or knowledge to keep them reliable, costs escalate well beyond expectation to keep them on the road, or they sit.

The need for old car repair shops seems great enough that I've considered quitting my day job and opening a specialty shop for 60/70s classics but the overhead costs in todays world would make it difficult to turn enough profit. Riviera's, Cadillacs, etc are way more complex vs a muscle car when it comes to electrical and vacuum systems not to mention specialty options. Then trying to figure out the inherited sins of 60 years of previous owners repair attempts! And we haven't opened the rust repair can of worms yet. Bottom line if it was a lucrative business, shops would exist in most localities catering to the need.  

[telriv]

MANY of you knows what it takes.

It's NOT "Rocket Science".

I particularly focus on the earlier 60's Buick's, mainly Riv's

Many things I have in stock already like the rear pinion seal or axle seals It costs $$$ to keep this stuff, BUT when it's available I'll usually get it.

I was going to people's houses to work on some cars.

It takes lots to drag jacks & jack stands around.

Then the owners are usually not willing to go out of their way to help in anyway.

I removed the lock on one car & told the guy where to go (2 places) to get a key made.

As of yet it hasn't been done.

I charge $100.00 an hr. for my time, BUT it is usually productive time.

At 78 yrs. old it's getting harder to get around.

I just don't have the strength or flexibility I used to have.

Even with the limitations to me it's kinda fun & productive.

It helps to keep the "juices" flowing.

 

Tom T.

 

[gungeey]

4 hours ago, Pat Curran said:

I know you are in Southern CT but there is a shop in Eastford, CT (Latham Automotive) that has been working on my 1966 Corvette for the last 8 years.

Also, just over the border in Dudley, MA is a shop that specializes in old vehicles.  It is called Rob’s Automotive and I have used them as well. 
These aren’t exactly in your back yard but if you are out of options, they are within a reasonable drive.

That place in Dudley looks legit 👍

 

It also looks damn expensive. Always 6 figure 60's corvettes, cobras and big gun 60s Chrysler muscle cars on the premises.

when they see me drive by in a 1st gen they elbow each other, point and shrug their shoulders.

[NailheadBob]

13 hours ago, rocketraider said:

The big problem as I see it is that shops are set up to work using flat rate job pricing. If they don't have any  reference for how long a job should take, they don't know how to charge for the work.

 

Most mechanics now are in the 20 to 40 year old age range. Meaning they've never worked on anything before 1990s and quite simply don't understand older technology they can't diagnose with a laptop computer.

 

If they'll take it at all a lot of 'em want to use your car as filler work.

 

And, a lot of them are afraid of old car owners. They view us as fussy. Some unfortunately view us as cash cows too.

Glenn, I think you are 100% spot on with your description of the repair shops on old cars

 

Bob

[arnulfo de l.a.]

2 hours ago, 60FlatTop said:

Amen. Just another ten minute job. A wave of the hand and that will be done.

 

I remember one of those salmon colored '54 Fords with a leather interior coming in for blowing fuses on the taillights and poor engine performance. I snipped off the wires that had been welded to the fender well patch and pulled new. Purchased and replaced the vacuum advance unit, and tuned. The owner accused me of grossly overcharging and told everyone he knew. Four years later he showed up at my house. He had taken the car to a "better" person who had left his car parked in a field with the power windows down. A raccoon had nested in the car and there was extensive water damage. He asked me to come with him to retrieve the car and what recourse he had for the damage.

 

I wonder how he made out. My interest in servicing other than my own cars waned yet another level.

Bad karma for calling an honest man a thief. Well deserved!

[60FlatTop]

You know, you really need to keep an eye on the old guys retaining all that knowledge. I have been sitting here at my desk thinking I ought to do something with the old O2 sensor I replaced. It is just sitting there next to the box.

 

Then I picked it up and opps! It was the broken pedal pin for the exercise bike in my home workout area. Strong body, inattentive mind.

Guess I will go out and work on the car.

[RIVNIK]

In many metropolitan areas( like Orlando)there are often more restoration & custom shops than there are old school mechanics. As they deal w mostly older cars they usually have one on board or have a working relationship w one nearby. 

[gungeey]

14 hours ago, Hazdaz said:

This will be a mild rant because I know a lot of you guys do your own wrenching, but I simply don't have the time for this anymore.  Brought the Riv to a local mechanic who is right down the street.  You can tell they are excited to check the old car out, but they dont really seem set up to work on these old cars.  They did some diagnosing of my issues and noticed some leaks.  Suggested I hit up another shop in town.  Went there and lo and behold they don't really work in these older cars.  Suggested I try another guy that's local, and again the guy seemed fine and all, but he wasn't set up for this kind of work. 

 

I find it funny how these cars tend to be more mechanically simple than modern cars, and yet mechanics don't really want to touch them.  None of the issues wrong with the car are particularly huge issues, but collectively if I tried doing them myself in the backyard, I'd probably miss the rest of the summer since the car would be apart. 

 

Here's a short list of some of the stuff we noticed when my local mechanic checked the car out.  (And to be clear, I am sure there are other things,but these were the more pressing ones)

 

Rear pinion seal leaking, rear diff - might need to rebuild diff.  Rear wheel bearings were noisy.  Driver side tie rod bushing was shot and front driver bearing was noisy.  I've also been told I need new tires, and while it stops fine for now, I know new brakes will be needed. 

 

I'm in southern CT so I'm curious if anyone knows of a local mechanic that touches these old Buicks.  And if not, what do you guys do in your area?  Not everyone wants to or has time to turn wrenches, so I can't imagine everyone here does their own maintenance.   if I can't find someone, I guess I'll be forced to DIY it, but I have enough other projects to do already. 

 

 

A list of needs regarding your project:

rear wheel bearings

tie rod

front wheel bearing/s

Brakes

Tires

Alignment

Lastly, you say your pinion seal is leaking (but also have suspicions the assembly needs replacing). It will be very tough to find competent repairs here. There's a number of specialized tools to these rear end gears required, Best to buy a good used pumpkin complete. 

You have to pull the axles to replace the pumpkin. Local machine shop will press on the bearings The axle, pumpkin, and rear wheel bearing job is done at same time.

The front wheel bearings and races would be checked during the brake job. Who knows, you may need wheel cylinders at that time ( may as well replace the hoses if age is unknown, too)

Including the tires and alignment (which would be done at a tire shop) I tally about $900 plus the cost of the carrier assembly (around 300?)= 1200-1500 DIY

___________________________________________________________

 

Sounds like you're not overly interested in tackling the project. It also sounds like you have the ability, but prefer not to. My guess is the bill for parts and labor=$3500. But I'm not up with these times where everybody is gouging each other hence, even the decent guys have to gouge. So, probably 4500 to $5000 in real life. And you need to deliver the carrier to them.

 

This work could be done tapping away a couple hours every other day in spare time over the course of 3 or 4 weeks without breaking a sweat. Other than putting the new pumpkin in place. It's like lifting up a hundred pound boulder.

If it were my car that is undoubtedly the course I would take. Good luck with whatever route you choose to take. Maybe a fellow ROAer is nearby to lend a hand with the heavy lifting..

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Turbinator]

Not as difficult as you might think. Attend club meetings and car shows. Talk to folks and ask questions.

Do as much work on your own car as you are able.

Read your Service Manual.

Check your source((

s) for accuracy. Club members want to help. Those that have made the repair are better sources than others. Beware of well meaning folks that are happy to tell you how to fix something and have not done the repair themselves.

 

Unfortunately, the parts, tools, and labor are expensive. Invest time researching what you need. And still you might need something else. Check part sellers return policy. 
Turbinator

[Pat Curran]

3 hours ago, gungeey said:

That place in Dudley looks legit 👍

 

It also looks damn expensive. Always 6 figure 60's corvettes, cobras and big gun 60s Chrysler muscle cars on the premises.

when they see me drive by in a 1st gen they elbow each other, point and shrug their shoulders.

Their prices are in line with other shops.  I have used them a few times over the years.

[alsancle]

Although we consider the cars of the 60s to be simple mechanically working on them is now a specialty skill.  I think you will see more restorations shops focusing more on mechanical work than everything as restorations become a rare occurrence.  

 

To answer the original poster:  yes, it is hard to find competent mechanics these days.

[RivNut]

There are quite a few shops around here who advertise that they are restorers, if your definition od “restore” is a new LS motor with matching trans mission. New air bag suspension on a Morrison chassis.  Basically what you get back is your older body parts mounted on modern running gear.

 

Bob’s suggestion of attending car shows and asking for leads is a good one.

[rocketraider]

RivNut's comments are timely.

 

It's 102° and humid here today so I have sat inside watching Motor Trend TV.

 

Joe Martin's Iron Resurrection show took a very nice, rust-free 1962 Impala Sport Coupe and cut it up, to install all the cliches RivNut mentioned and then some. And crowed about finding such a good example to start with.

 

If you're going to cut the floors out anyway, why not start with a car with bad floors that needs metal work? Convinces me some of these people do it just to piss the rest of us off.

 

What really chapped me was when they filled the factory gas door, emphasizing that it "wasn't cool"- and then put one of those stupid pop-up gas fillers on top of the left quarter. Along with having to redo the gas tank into the trunk well because the original type wouldn't fit into the Morrison aftermarket chassis.

 

That crowd throws "cool" around to point it's meaningless. But at least I was inside in 75° cool instead of outside in 102° heat.

[60FlatTop]

It is very easy to make assumptions about the simplicity of '60s cars. Easy to estimate repair jobs as well. I  will charge you more than the first guy who didn't do it right .

[Matt56]

18 hours ago, XframeFX said:

I concur.

As to your rear axle, the hotchkiss design lends to easy service. Those axles slide out, no C-Clips, 3rd member is then easily removed. Mark the pinion nut before removal. There's no crush sleeve between pinion bearings. Replace that seal, Easy!

Yep, no easier to replace pinion seal on the planet than our Buicks.  Was so pleasantly surprised as I got into that on mine.

[Matt56]

I dont blame shops for not wanting to work on our old cars.  Its not high volume work so the chance of a mistake and rework goes up.  The owner is likely ( and understandably) picky and yet wants a good deal.  Its just not a great situation for the shop owner.  Mainly downside with little upside.

[Turbinator]

45 minutes ago, Matt56 said:

Its just not a great situation for the shop owner.  Mainly downside with little upside.

Matt, in my experience the repairs Ive had at commercial shops are worse than my own attempts to make my own repair. There are exceptions but so far the commercial shops have not given me a fair shake. So, I seek out older mechanics who have retired to do work on my Riv at my shop. Ive been very lucky to have ace mechanics work on my car for not a lot of money.

A very well meaning member inadvertently gave me erroneous info regards amp specs on our alternator. It was a funny situation that lead to me catching my car on fire for a few seconds. You really have to be careful and somewhat familiar with the problem. I blame not a soul but myself for not double checking specifications.

[EmTee]

Maybe go to a local cruise-in and find a similar car in what you consider to be the condition you'd like to see your car emulate.  Talk to the owner and ask who does the work on his car.

[Hazdaz]

This thread kind of blew up.  In a good way. 

 

A lot of the things you guys mentioned are things that I've been thinking about for a while now.  I would like to add that another issue that it is tough finding competent mechanics willing to take on this work is that there are limited resources out there for finding info.  Yeah, this site is great and all, and you guys have a wealth of knowledge, but you can only extract so much info from a post on a forum when you're on your back out in the backyard in 90° heat. 

 

For instance, if I want to replace pretty much any part on a Mustang or Camaro, there are seemingly endless resources online both to find the parts and tutorials showing you how to do the job.  Sometimes there's some esoteric thing that you need to know ahead of time that makes a certain repair 10x easier, but for our rather unique cars that info is far more difficult to find.

 

Also a couple of people mentioned that a lot of shops these days consider working on these cars as just a way to drop in an LS, but I kind of get why they do that. First off, it's a great family of engines, sure, but the parts are available everywhere and just as importantly,  any mechanic worth his paycheck knows how to work on them.  Yeah, some might call it lazy and unoriginal, but is it better to have a car that doesn't run because the owner can't find some obscure part for his original motor? 

 

I don't know how I am going to move forward with this,I really don't.  I absolutely adore the car, but my time is far too limited.  The summer was booked even before any car related stuff came to light. And I know the car isn't in the best shape,but it's a cruiser, not a garage queen.  I appreciate a few of the shop suggestions- those are definitely a decent drive away, but if everything else falls apart, I might give one of them a shot.  I'll also look through the repair manual I have and see just how complex these jobs are.  I know that they are kind of inter-related so if I do one, I might as well do them all.  I am absolutely not a mechanic, but I'm willing to tackle at least some projects.  Even more so if I can get good reference material showing how it's done.  I don't know how well any of these jobs are explained in the Riv manual (if they are described at all).

 

Anyways, thanks for the replies, I see that the struggle is real.  That doesn't make it any less annoying, but I know I'm not the only one seeing the market shift to where "old classic" is now considered cars from the 1990s!

[NTX5467]

3 hours ago, rocketraider said:

RivNut's comments are timely.

 

It's 102° and humid here today so I have sat inside watching Motor Trend TV.

 

Joe Martin's Iron Resurrection show took a very nice, rust-free 1962 Impala Sport Coupe and cut it up, to install all the cliches RivNut mentioned and then some. And crowed about finding such a good example to start with.

 

If you're going to cut the floors out anyway, why not start with a car with bad floors that needs metal work? Convinces me some of these people do it just to piss the rest of us off.

 

What really chapped me was when they filled the factory gas door, emphasizing that it "wasn't cool"- and then put one of those stupid pop-up gas fillers on top of the left quarter. Along with having to redo the gas tank into the trunk well because the original type wouldn't fit into the Morrison aftermarket chassis.

 

That crowd throws "cool" around to point it's meaningless. But at least I was inside in 75° cool instead of outside in 102° heat.

The part about taking a very nice car and "ruining it" is the specific reason I got totally turned off by "Overhauling".  Other than the games they played with the owners whose cars were allegedly stolen.  Chip Foose's similar show (to showcase HIS customization skills more than anything else) is not far behind.  I saw too many nice cars cut-up and "restored" for the betterment of the advertisers/supporters that, to me, it gave the restoration business a bad name.  The cars became "famous", but at what cost?

 

Enjoy!

NTX5467

[rocketraider]

1 hour ago, EmTee said:

Maybe go to a local cruise-in and find a similar car in what you consider to be the condition you'd like to see your car emulate.  Talk to the owner and ask who does the work on his car.

Few if any unmolested, unmodified cars show up at cruise nights around here. There's no one to ask. All they want to talk about is modifications.

 

My 76 Ninety Eight seems to especially intrigue them. They want to LS it, airbag it and put wagon wheels on it so bad they can taste it. One said "I'll buy that car at your estate sale and then it'll look like it's 'SPOSED to!"

 

I told him I'd crush it and turn it into a KIA before he ever got that opportunity.

[Matt56]

3 hours ago, Turbinator said:

Matt, in my experience the repairs Ive had at commercial shops are worse than my own attempts to make my own repair. There are exceptions but so far the commercial shops have not given me a fair shake. So, I seek out older mechanics who have retired to do work on my Riv at my shop. Ive been very lucky to have ace mechanics work on my car for not a lot of money.

A very well meaning member inadvertently gave me erroneous info regards amp specs on our alternator. It was a funny situation that lead to me catching my car on fire for a few seconds. You really have to be careful and somewhat familiar with the problem. I blame not a soul but myself for not double checking specifications.

I think we completely agree.  My experience with having work done for me on old cars never goes well (and often doesn't on my newer vechicle that I do pay for service on) - hence doing all my own old hobby car work.  To be fair to the shops they cannot spend the time to research what our now niche vehicles - nobody would pay the bill to recover that time.  So us old car owners are left largely on our own except for the strategy as you say of using older retired techs.

[XframeFX]

13 hours ago, RIVNIK said:

In many metropolitan areas( like Orlando)there are often more restoration & custom shops than there are old school mechanics. As they deal w mostly older cars they usually have one on board or have a working relationship w one nearby. 

I can attest to shops in the Orlando area. My sold 1965 Console went there. Not sure how the operating numbers work for the resto shop where I shipped it.

 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

I’d like to think our demographics are a rational bunch. We have time patience, a circle of friends (local car clubs/meets and forums such as this). Particularly for myself, procrastination. Bad decisions were usually made in haste. Need to be somewhat of a project manager.

Shipping/Courier costs can significantly add to the black hole.

For anything less than a high dollar classic, owner repair keeps costs down. Although, for all of my baby steps, still no dual circuit brakes and no ST400 swap, I need to fire myself.

 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

For major centers, if there’s a local resource such as an upholsterer, driveline, brake shop. I bring my parts there. If it appears an incompetent repair, hold off criticism. Again procrastination, further analysis might reveal more.

My local overnight AFB repair may not have been performed incorrectly.

 

 

 

Edited July 16 by XframeFX (see edit history)

[Turbinator]

4 hours ago, Matt56 said:

So us old car owners are left largely on our own except for the strategy as you say of using older retired techs.

Matt, I was not trained in ANY mechanical, electrical automotive work. I picked up some basics from friends and family over the years. The forum has truly been helpful. Turn signals, brake lights etc. on my 63 were fixed by the gents on the forum. Radiator repair advice. Four or five seasons of AC advice from the forum along with trial and error have got me cold air on my 63.

 

Matt, I believe we are on the same band width.

Turbinator

[Turbinator]

10 hours ago, rocketraider said:

That crowd throws "cool" around to point it's meaningless. But at least I was inside in 75° cool instead of outside in 102° heat.

Having worked in some nasty mineral dust filled enviornment coupled with heat from a brick kiln next to my work space. I decided to put in window shaker AC units. I have commercial grade electric heaters with fans for the winter. I spend a lot of time in my stand alone 3 bay garage shining hubcaps. I work on my 63 Riv and 64 Chevy IMPALA SS. I do not do much of anything else. Might as well have a high cool factor.

Turbinator

Edited July 16 by Turbinator (see edit history)

[NTX5467]

10 hours ago, rocketraider said:

Few if any unmolested, unmodified cars show up at cruise nights around here. There's no one to ask. All they want to talk about is modifications.

 

My 76 Ninety Eight seems to especially intrigue them. They want to LS it, airbag it and put wagon wheels on it so bad they can taste it. One said "I'll buy that car at your estate sale and then it'll look like it's 'SPOSED to!"

 

I told him I'd crush it and turn it into a KIA before he ever got that opportunity.

An LS Swap BY ITSELF will NOT make that 98 any better, faster, or last longer.  They'll need a modern transmission, too.  Plus a deeper rear axle ratio.  They can soon discover that cars, back then, were NOT all the same.  THAT might play with their minds! 

 

Any possible speed capabilities can't be used if the car is lowered/bagged as they'll then discover the realities of a long wheelbase vehicle and "driveway approaches" and such.  It might be a rolling piece of art, but it does NOT need to obstruct traffic due to a lowered ride height that THEY perceive is "looks like it is supposed to look". 

 

You can always tell them your Will already has instructions for the car's later life.

 

Have they ever considered a '69 Oldsmobile for that look?

 

Sometimes it seems that keeping our vintage vehicles is an exercise in futility.  Might as well liquidate while WE can still control where they end up.  Hopefully with a good and appreciative home, to remain stock in many respects.  ONE thing they can't take away is our great memories of owning them!  

 

NTX5467

Edited July 16 by NTX5467 (see edit history)

[60FlatTop]

My aunt bought me the September 1958 issue of Rod & Custom Magazine off the rack. Since then I have generally been continuously involved in the old car hobby. I took a short break away around 1990 when I noticed my children thought my hobby was demanding time away from them. I still continued to maintain our cars and continuity in the hobby remained. And I have generally embraced the progressing technology over the years. I think that puts me in a good place to selectively do my own work. My disappointment with most farmed out jobs has given me incentive to learn and buy tools. My physical condition is much better than average and I can attribute most of that to the failure of big medicine and insurance company driven health care. Pretty much like the cars. Continuity on both counts is the key for me.

 

I read forum topics and see problems connected with inexperience. If I had broken away from my teen aged interests and pursued career paths that took me away for decades and returned to the hobby as an empty nester I can see myself getting into a predicament for service. I am thankful I was able to maintain the balance for decades.

 

My old cars have always been newer though they are old now. The '64 Riviera I bought when I was 29 years old is 60 now. The 60 Electra I bought when I was 50 is 65 now. I have noted them on this forum and had some ask where mine old cars are. Luckily I don't think like that either. The newest member of my "keepers" is a 2005. At 19 years old it is eligible for collector car insurance. Fine with me although some might hack up a hairball at the thought. Thursday I am dropping it off at a highly recommended shop for a pair of CARB approved cats. That job I don't want to do. They are integrated into the manifold. Verbally vetted, now we will see how the shop performs.

 

Like that lizard in the TV advertisement used to say "It's what I do." Always have.

[XframeFX]

Take-aways and probably more:

12 hours ago, Matt56 said:

To be fair to the shops they cannot spend the time to research what our now niche vehicles - nobody would pay the bill to recover that time.

 

3 hours ago, NTX5467 said:

Sometimes it seems that keeping our vintage vehicles is an exercise in futility.  Might as well liquidate while WE can still control where they end up.  Hopefully with a good and appreciative home, to remain stock in many respects. 

Plug'n Play People:

13 hours ago, rocketraider said:

Few if any unmolested, unmodified cars show up at cruise nights around here. There's no one to ask. All they want to talk about is modifications.

This is a GOOD source for support. Other Forums seem to veer into a pissing contest. Only opinions and no usable info.

14 hours ago, Hazdaz said:

Yeah, this site is great and all, and you guys have a wealth of knowledge

 

14 hours ago, Hazdaz said:

I absolutely adore the car, but my time is far too limited.  The summer was booked even before any car related stuff came to light.

Many of us are retired and have time. Owner repair is a must to keep investment below the market value of my Riviera. I farm-out to fast-track or for tooling and expertise. Limited success with the latter. DIY may be slower but, satisfaction is more likely and I have new learnings.

[NTX5467]

I know that many people do have a hard time realizing that a more modern car can now be an "antique" car.  While WE might be obsessing about finding a shop that is willing to work on our vehicles AND knows how to do it (without watching a YouTube video), future "old car owners" will be obsessing about "antique computer modules" that are no longer serviced (only being serviced by dealer-only-accessible authorized repair stations across the country from where we are).  The wiring schematics for such only existed in the factory repair stations and it would take a very competent repair person to look for cooked resistors or capacitors on the boards.  At least with carburetors and distributors, we can make them work and the aftermarket is full of them.  Might not be OEM-spec, but usable.  Like in another thread, "Fits exactly with modifications".

 

While we might (or have) "commented" about engine oils, unleaded fuels, or simplistic antique technologies, imagine the owner of a Challenger Hellcat Demon 170 might feel about it becoming a "parts car" beside the shed, as its engine/powertrain computer is fried and no good replacements are available.  Oh well . . .

 

Enjoy!

NTX5467

[ply33]

1 hour ago, NTX5467 said:

I know that many people do have a hard time realizing that a more modern car can now be an "antique" car.  While WE might be obsessing about finding a shop that is willing to work on our vehicles AND knows how to do it (without watching a YouTube video), future "old car owners" will be obsessing about "antique computer modules" that are no longer serviced (only being serviced by dealer-only-accessible authorized repair stations across the country from where we are).  The wiring schematics for such only existed in the factory repair stations and it would take a very competent repair person to look for cooked resistors or capacitors on the boards.  At least with carburetors and distributors, we can make them work and the aftermarket is full of them.  Might not be OEM-spec, but usable.  Like in another thread, "Fits exactly with modifications".

 

While we might (or have) "commented" about engine oils, unleaded fuels, or simplistic antique technologies, imagine the owner of a Challenger Hellcat Demon 170 might feel about it becoming a "parts car" beside the shed, as its engine/powertrain computer is fried and no good replacements are available.  Oh well . . .

 

Enjoy!

NTX5467

"Future 'old car owners'" are already around. 1999 model years are 25 years old and had significant number of solid state electrical control boxes. I recall when I got a 1991 Jeep Cherokee and purchased the factory service manual for it that I decided the internal combustion engine was, from my software engineering point of view, just a peripheral for the networked computers in the car. While not sold in the US until the fall of 2000 as a 2001 model, the first Toyota Prius was being sold in Japan in 1999, about as computerized as most of the cars that followed.

 

For what it is worth, my 1933 Plymouth has two computers in it: A fluid-mechanical computer that meters fuel into the cylinders based on operator input, manifold vacuum and air flow. It is called a carburetor. And a mechanical computer that adjusts the ignition timing based on engine RPM, it is called a distributor. Later versions used a pneumatic input to adjust timing based on estimated engine load. Both analog, neither uses fancy electronics, but they are still basically computers using the older pre-digital use of the word.

[Turbinator]

On 7/15/2024 at 11:00 AM, JZRIV said:

Bottom line if it was a lucrative business, shops would exist in most localities catering to the need

There are a number of vintage car/ restoration shops in my area. Ive never tried them for fear of sky high repair fees. Ive some luck with repairs where the local shop allowed me to supply my own parts.

It’s like anything else worth having you have to do the pick and shovel work to find the treasure. Im accustomed to beating the bushes for good mechanics. Got a name and number this past weekend of a prospective mechanic. The prospective mechanic was inspecting a 66 Skylark GS that is for sale. The gent seemed to know his business. We shall see. Later Gator