The market in pre-war cars

[1935Packard]

Looking at the auction results in Monterey, one takeaway I had is that the gap continues to increase in the pre-war market (especially for CCCA-type cars) between the market value of #1 and #3 cars.  The market was generally soft for pre-war cars in driver condition, but people were continuing to pay top dollar for top restorations.  If that's right, I assume this reflects fewer people buying pre-war cars to drive them and the ever-increasing costs of restorations.  Happy news if you're looking to buy a driver, although not so happy if you're selling one.  Anyway, curious if others who follow the market closely think that's right. 

[alsancle]

Orin, it was great to see you guys this weekend.

 

I am in general agreement with you. The spread between number one and the number three has never been greater. Obviously driven by the astronomical cost of restoration. 

 

 

 

 

 

[alsancle]

Btw,  my friends and I were joking about a couple of "free cars".   The Speed Six coupe at Gooding all in around 1.5 million and the 500K Cab A at Broadarrow all in around 1.7 million.  The latter probably needing a 200K oil change.   Seemed like great deals, but still a LOT of money.

 

There were some astounding results also.  The #1 restored CL at Gooding for 800K and the barn find Series I Super America at RM for almost 3 million.

[Cadillac Fan]

I agree.  No one wants to lose their shirt on a restoration that takes 2-4 years for a pre war production car. And the collector car market is shifting.  New money (people in their 20s-50s) are not into prewar cars.  They may develop an interest later in their life depending upon their financial situation.  

 

 The future is sports cars from the 1950s-through the 2010s.  European and JDM.  
 

The major-major-league pre war cars will continue but a Lamborghini Diablo won a class award at Pebble Beach this past weekend. No one would believe that 5 years ago. 

Edited August 22, 2023 by Cadillac Fan (see edit history)

[cxgvd]

Personally, I recently put my 1913 mid sized Buick for sale on these pages for what I considered was a quick sale price.  Zero response.  I've owned it 25 years, well sorted dependable driver and nothing.  I deleted the ad and am keeping the driver quality Buick.

 

A friend with many vehicles thinks the market is weak for brass era cars, and is going to CCCA types.

 

Also a local restoration shop collected $200K to restore a pre war car and the owner passed away.  The shop is helping? the estate and have offered the car around locally for $50.  I think they should give to RM/Sotheby's to sell.

 

Good news is, fill your boots with driver quality and have fun.

 

Regards, Gary

[leomara]

I had to comment on what alsancle said above.  Yes!  I restored a 1930 Model A coupe about 23 years ago and am recently tackling a 1928 Chrysler roadster.  The cost of any type of physical restoration work has become astronomical.  We have lost all our service related workers to retirement and the younger generation seems to have little interest in those types of jobs.  Having mechanical, body and upholstery work done by anyone other than yourself has become a luxury of the wealthy.  This disturbs me because I've been in this since the late 1960's.  it is small wonder why many younger people cannot even consider pursuing this great hobby. 

[edinmass]

All elements of the hobby are changing. No one is throwing away finished cars, but what owners expect out of them, and the actual market are two different things. The great stuff is doing fine. Floor sweepings and story cars are not. The market will find its level. Lower tier cars will continue to do poorly for only one reason. Here is an example. In brass……..why  buy a 20 or 30 horsepower car when the 40 to 50 horsepower units are now more affordable than they have been in forty years. It will all adjust over time to a new normal. Costs of restoration and repair……and transportation will continue to put downward pressure on everything except the top three percent of the cars.

Edited August 22, 2023 by edinmass (see edit history)

[plymouthcranbrook]

I can’t help but think many high end cars are not really bought to be driven much if any. Mostly garage or museum art. Impress my poorer friends.

[alsancle]

1 hour ago, plymouthcranbrook said:

I can’t help but think many high end cars are not really bought to be driven much if any. Mostly garage or museum art. Impress my poorer friends.

 

Not completely true.  The biggest driver for the Duesenberg and Bentley markets seems to be the marque specific tours.   I know for a fact guys that have bought a Duesenberg just so they can go on the tour.   I believe the same to be true for Bentley. 

 

Driving is the highest and best use for an automobile.   A fully sorted car will bring twice as much as a running car which will bring twice as much as a non running car.

[Scooter Guy]

4 hours ago, edinmass said:

Costs of restoration and repair……and transportation will continue to put downward pressure on everything except the top three percent of the cars.

 

Yep, that's certainly what I see from where I'm sitting. 

 

And, as you said, the great stuff is doing fine. I'd even say that's the case across the board with the top few percent of many types of cars, not just with the ultra high end pre-war stuff. Cars that obviously need a lot of sorting out or complete restoration seem to be a getting to be a tougher sell. 

[PWN]

I'm bummed....I thought my grandfathers 1922 Chandler was gonna make me rich....then my 37 year old daughter mentioned that she wanted it, and my first gen dodge Cummins as a tow vehicle. Alas......

[kfle]

7 hours ago, cxgvd said:

Personally, I recently put my 1913 mid sized Buick for sale on these pages for what I considered was a quick sale price.  Zero response.  I've owned it 25 years, well sorted dependable driver and nothing.  I deleted the ad and am keeping the driver quality Buick.

 

A friend with many vehicles thinks the market is weak for brass era cars, and is going to CCCA types.

 

Also a local restoration shop collected $200K to restore a pre war car and the owner passed away.  The shop is helping? the estate and have offered the car around locally for $50.  I think they should give to RM/Sotheby's to sell.

 

Good news is, fill your boots with driver quality and have fun.

 

Regards, Gary

Whats a quick sale price considered to be on a 1913 Buick?  a 1912 driver quality just sold on Bring a Trailer a few weeks ago for $35,500 + add the 5% buyers premium.  One thing we all need to remember is that younger people dont buy things through the traditional forums (I.e. AACA forum classified, HCCA classifieds, facebook, etc.).  Bring a Trailer had a 1912 Oakland that was mostly all original but in fairly rough shape with duct tape on the seats, water leaking heavily from the radiator, etc. for about $20k.  I sold my 1931 driver quality Model A Deluxe Roadster, restored in the 1990's for $27k about 6 weeks ago.  I didnt use the traditional places where you would typically sell a Model A and I found a couple that fell in love with it and it was their first pre war car.  All it takes for driver quality cars is for someone to fall in love with it and have an emotional connection to it.  In order to do that you have to get it seen outside of the traditional selling avenues where the only people that will see it are the people that are downsizing their own collections and have been through their own horror story restorations.  

 

Times are changing and yes, prices will come down and level out but I have not really seen as big as a drop in the pre 1916 cars as I have the late 20's and 30's cars.  

[1935Packard]

Total aside, but I thought this little Hispano-Suiza at the Gooding auction  was very charming. I don’t know how you keep it on the road, but it’s charming. 1916 T24, sold for $110,000.

 

 

 

Edited August 22, 2023 by 1935Packard (see edit history)

[1912Staver]

11 hours ago, edinmass said:

All elements of the hobby are changing. No one is throwing away finished cars, but what owners expect out of them, and the actual market are two different things. The great stuff is doing fine. Floor sweepings and story cars are not. The market will find its level. Lower tier cars will continue to do poorly for only one reason. Here is an example. In brass……..why  buy a 20 or 30 horsepower car when the 40 to 50 horsepower units are now more affordable than they have been in forty years. It will all adjust over time to a new normal. Costs of restoration and repair……and transportation will continue to put downward pressure on everything except the top three percent of the cars.

I don't doubt your experience Ed. But It seems to me 40 - 50 HP cars are still generally holding their own price wise. Pretty sure most are still a fair bit more expensive now than in 1983. Or are you thinking strictly in inflation adjusted $ ? . 20 - 30 HP , non - Ford cars do seem to be dropping. 

 Unfortunately they still have to fall quite a bit more before I can look at a  "driver ". My house purchase back in January blew a big hole in my overall finances. I expect any 40 HP car is still going to be double or more the price of a 20 - 30 HP car. That gap is almost impossible for many of us to bridge.

 When I look on the HCCA site I am still seeing generally strong prices. Are none of these cars selling ?

Also , brass era parts prices seem to be as strong as ever.

Edited August 23, 2023 by 1912Staver (see edit history)

[edinmass]

1912Starver-  don’t look hard and I come across handfuls of HCCA stuff. You won’t find a Pierce or Simplex cheap but affordable cars under 60 HP are everywhere. The legends are still fairly strong but off brands abound. Finding a 50hp under 75k American is not hard. Body style will be common but acceptable. 

[DGPoff]

26 minutes ago, edinmass said:

1912Starver-  don’t look hard and I come across handfuls of HCCA stuff. You won’t find a Pierce or Simplex cheap but affordable cars under 60 HP are everywhere. The legends are still fairly strong but off brands abound. Finding a 50hp under 75k American is not hard. Body style will be common but acceptable. 

Gooding sold a built up 1913 Pierce 66, with a bunch of non 66 parts, but a beautiful restoration for $240k. Same car was a no sale at Hershey with a bid over $400k (which may or may not have been real.) 

 

I think the $150-200k brass market is interesting these days. Half of what the prices were 5 years ago. 

 

On the other end of the world, epic over $1m brass cars are on fire. Record results.

[1912Staver]

1 hour ago, edinmass said:

1912Starver-  don’t look hard and I come across handfuls of HCCA stuff. You won’t find a Pierce or Simplex cheap but affordable cars under 60 HP are everywhere. The legends are still fairly strong but off brands abound. Finding a 50hp under 75k American is not hard. Body style will be common but acceptable. 

I am afraid 75K U.S. is a whole lot of money to most Canadians. That's about 2 years pre tax income for me, and as far as retired people in Canada go I am actually pretty well off. If I can spend 10 % of my gross income on my hobby I am doing well. So that 75 K represents 20 years hobby spending for me, plus interest if it is a lump sum purchase { like a brass car }. I don't think I have 20 active years left. Carying on with my Staver 40 HP restoration is about the only game I can afford to play. I expect even Stateside most households would have trouble swinging a 75K hobby purchase.

[MarkV]

It’s simple it’s a generation shift. 
my grandfather loved pre war and immediate post war. The fifties cars were used cars to him.

my parents generation is all about 50s and 60s 

my generation (Gen X and older millennials who are basically Gen X) we want 70s and 80s cars.

 

pre war is on its way out, with some exceptions. Biggest issue is they really can’t be driven on city roads with very much traffic the older you go the worse it gets. I rarely take out my 40s and before cars for this reason. They probably get out maybe twice or three times annually on a real drive. (Though I start them weekly and will drive them around the block)

[DGPoff]

You would be amazed how far, and how fast, I have driven anything from a 1 cylinder Cadillac 1907, 2 cylinder Buick 1906, assorted modelT cars from 1911 to 1924; and various 20-30s cars growing up and later in life. The adventure is to learn how and where to drive them. Lots of HCCA touring tips out there.

 

At this point I’m targeting a transcontinental capable car. One with known long distance history. And I’m prepared to pay fully for the right car. Has been my goal since I was 12 (now 60). Challenging seeking that type of car. Probably less than a handful with this type of objective. If I find it, I guarantee 3-5,000 miles a year minimum.

 

chase dreams my friends. Then go share.

[cxgvd]

Mid sized Brass era cars are inexpensive relatively.

 

I looked up the auction that Kyle pointed out and it is similar to my Buick and the sale price was the same as my price.  Could have phoned me.  Just a few years back a dealer from Ohio sold a 1913 Buick mid size for $55K, now 40K.

 

The only reason I would like to sell my car is the buy a Curved Dash Olds, driver quality 25 years ago was 20 to 25K, today many available for 40K.  I think they are reasonable.  I have a one cylinder Cadillac and sure, it doesn't go to cruise night or the beach but there must be a dozen events like the New London, Lansing to Dearborn Run, Old Car Festival. Cape May, etc.

 

I believe in serendipity. Someday somewhere and someone will work it out

 

Regards, Gary

 

 

[Dr B]

16 hours ago, kfle said:

One thing we all need to remember is that younger people dont buy things through the traditional forums (I.e. AACA forum classified, HCCA classifieds, facebook, etc.).

I want to reiterate what @Kfle said.  I don't know how many of you follow BAT (I look at it occasionally). There are hundreds of ongoing auctions daily. Yes, many are modern cars especially Porsches, but there are also many driver and better quality collector cars.  This is a HUGH market and gets a lot of eyeballs. I have bid on a few cars.

 

16 hours ago, kfle said:

you have to get it seen outside of the traditional selling avenues where the only people that will see it are the people that are downsizing their own collections and have been through their own horror story restorations.  

 I believe @Kfle is absolutely correct, we are in a (great) echo chamber and not necessarily the best target audience to sell collector cars to younger or new collectors.

 

Robert

[8E45E]

8 hours ago, MarkV said:

pre war is on its way out, with some exceptions. Biggest issue is they really can’t be driven on city roads with very much traffic the older you go the worse it gets. I rarely take out my 40s and before cars for this reason. They probably get out maybe twice or three times annually on a real drive. (Though I start them weekly and will drive them around the block)

I agree about brass-era cars becoming more and more impractical due to the amount of high speed traffic on the roads, and traffic planners forcing motorists to use these expressways not designed for them.  Unfortunately, we lost one of our valued car/truck club members who accidentally missed a turn and ended up on a high speed Motorway in England in his 1904 Knox with fatal results in 2019.  Part of the fun is enjoying and using these vintage vehicles as they were meant to be; open-air motoring at a leisurely pace, not at 80 miles an hour with the A/C on, and audio on full decibels.   As each year passes, urban sprawl has farther diminished any area where one can freely enjoy the open road in these brass-era cars.  Unfortunately, it takes an event like a once-a-year parade to be able to safely use them!!

 

Craig

[edinmass]

Well, here’s proof of the end of the antique current market. Nobody’s buying anything and the Brass stuff nobody wants. Fact is everything is fine. Market adjust all the time over a decades. Several breast cars this weekend made almost $5,000,000.
 

 

[Steve_Mack_CT]

I think regarding prewar cars use and exposure will drive interest as a small percentage of new wave hobbyists will develop an interest in those, or 50s, 60s stuff for that matter.

 

I have been catching up on some leisure reading from the Classic Car, and not unlike the Antique Automobile, the thought I had today was for these cornerstone clubs to throw the unwashed masses a bone now and then by publishing some of their articles online it might be good.  Admittedly show presence and use is the key, but now I am looking forward to reading a restoration account in the Classic Car from last year that was written by some dude named Orin who has a passing interest in Packards... 😉👍😁

Edited August 23, 2023 by Steve_Mack_CT (see edit history)

[Soupiov]

I don't care where you live, unless it's in the middle of a major urban area, there are plenty of roads out there where you can safely drive a pre war or even brass era car if you approach it sensibly.  You just have to do a little planning and avoid rush hour situations. I drive mine regularly just for the fun of it and can't understand why  anyone would want an animate object like a car and not use it as it was originally intended to be used.  Admittedly it is more of a challenge than it used to be but to my way of thinking it is well worth the effort.

[alsancle]

14 minutes ago, Soupiov said:

I don't care where you live, unless it's in the middle of a major urban area, there are plenty of roads out there where you can safely drive a pre war or even brass era car if you approach it sensibly.  You just have to do a little planning and avoid rush hour situations. I drive mine regularly just for the fun of it and can't understand why  anyone would want an animate object like a car and not use it as it was originally intended to be used.  Admittedly it is more of a challenge than it used to be but to my way of thinking it is well worth the effort.

I was just having this conversation today with a friend.  It does depend where you are.  He was out in his Model A Duesenberg and was not having a great driving experience.  The car is good for 40 mph no problem,  but he lives in high desert which has a lot of hills.    I'm in New England and we have hills but plenty of relatively flat two lane roads with 40-45mph speed limits.  I have a nice 25 mile loop I can take in any car that can hold 40 mph and do it very comfortably.    But I really need a car that can do 40,  30-35 mph is a tougher problem.

[Soupiov]

I run brass era T's at my home in Jupiter Florida and in season the traffic there can be intense but there are roads with 30 mph speed limits everywhere.  Flat as a pancake so I can easily keep up with traffic.  In the summer when I am up in the Adirondacks I can also find great roads with 30 mph speed limits but there the hills can offer a bit of a challenge trying to maintaining the speed limit with 20 horsepower. I have never had a problem holding up traffic and if I have someone behind me who is in a hurry to break the speed limit I pull over and let them go.

[DGPoff]

Early car tour hack, plan your route as if you are cycling. Less traveled roads, better shoulders, etc.. 

 

I will disagree that you can’t drive an early car anywhere but a parade. I will do a Transcon tour in a pre 16 car within the next few years. 1000’s of miles. Alert and careful planning. Compare to 1910 and at least we have roads! Crazy. Yep. Who wants to join?

[kfle]

10 hours ago, Dr B said:

I want to reiterate what @Kfle said.  I don't know how many of you follow BAT (I look at it occasionally). There are hundreds of ongoing auctions daily. Yes, many are modern cars especially Porsches, but there are also many driver and better quality collector cars.  This is a HUGH market and gets a lot of eyeballs. I have bid on a few cars.

 

 I believe @Kfle is absolutely correct, we are in a (great) echo chamber and not necessarily the best target audience to sell collector cars to younger or new collectors.

 

Robert

Here is another one that ends in 18 hours and it will be interesting to see what it goes for.  1910 Buick that was restored in 1974, doesnt run, and the auction listing said that it will need a "mechanical refurbishment".  Currently at $11k and most of the action on BAT happens in the last hour.  1910 Buick Model 10 Touring for sale on BaT Auctions - ending August 24 (Lot #118,002) | Bring a Trailer.  

 

As Ed pointed out, overall Brass did quite well in the Pebble auctions and seems to surprisingly do well on BAT and other non typical venues where exposure is greater.   

[kfle]

11 hours ago, cxgvd said:

Mid sized Brass era cars are inexpensive relatively.

 

I looked up the auction that Kyle pointed out and it is similar to my Buick and the sale price was the same as my price.  Could have phoned me.  Just a few years back a dealer from Ohio sold a 1913 Buick mid size for $55K, now 40K.

 

The only reason I would like to sell my car is the buy a Curved Dash Olds, driver quality 25 years ago was 20 to 25K, today many available for 40K.  I think they are reasonable.  I have a one cylinder Cadillac and sure, it doesn't go to cruise night or the beach but there must be a dozen events like the New London, Lansing to Dearborn Run, Old Car Festival. Cape May, etc.

 

I believe in serendipity. Someday somewhere and someone will work it out

 

Regards, Gary

 

 

I see that one month ago a curved dash Olds sold for $56,000 + 5% buyers premium.  1904 Oldsmobile Model 6C Curved Dash for sale on BaT Auctions - sold for $56,000 on July 21, 2023 (Lot #114,100) | Bring a Trailer

 

I wish you well in acquiring and I myself would like to get an early one or two cylinder car.  

[DGPoff]

Joe and Betty Swann drove an EMF less than 10 years ago 4200 miles in one summer. Alaska and all. 6 lane freeways for short distances. No fear! And no horrible stories. One heck of a parade.

 

Look up Pathfinders (pathfinderstranscon.com) Wonderful crazy people honoring the history of long touring in old cars.

 

If there is a will, there is a way.

[1912Staver]

5 hours ago, edinmass said:

Well, here’s proof of the end of the antique current market. Nobody’s buying anything and the Brass stuff nobody wants. Fact is everything is fine. Market adjust all the time over a decades. Several breast cars this weekend made almost $5,000,000.
 

 

Dang, if I could just learn to live in a old camper van I too could own a Lozier. Except if I was living in a van my wife would be my X wife and that would mean I was still only 1/2 way to Lozier ownership...never mind.

[1912Staver]

11 hours ago, Dr B said:

I want to reiterate what @Kfle said.  I don't know how many of you follow BAT (I look at it occasionally). There are hundreds of ongoing auctions daily. Yes, many are modern cars especially Porsches, but there are also many driver and better quality collector cars.  This is a HUGH market and gets a lot of eyeballs. I have bid on a few cars.

 

 I believe @Kfle is absolutely correct, we are in a (great) echo chamber and not necessarily the best target audience to sell collector cars to younger or new collectors.

 

Robert

I watch BAT frequently. But mostly for British cars that are relatively close by. Lots of Vancouver B.C. area cars end up on BAT, often with no attempt to sell locally.  My last TVR purchase was similar except that time I bought it off ebay { back when ebay was still reasonably good. } I don't know why people are reluctant to list locally. Do they really think that after factoring in brokerage and shipping people are really going to pay that much more than a local guy ?

 I have seen a number of pre war cars that looked interesting on BAT. But distance has so far been a deal killer.

 Still looking for a scruffy , driver Morgan to keep my scruffy MGA company.

 Missed one on BAT a few months ago. Vancouver area Morgan all its life , listed on BAT and no other place by a well known  " go for the jugular " local dealer. Car sold quite cheaply. I expect they could have done better with a local buyer. 

I was busy with moving and did not see it until the auction had ended.

Edited August 24, 2023 by 1912Staver (see edit history)

[Bloo]

3 hours ago, DGPoff said:

I will disagree that you can’t drive an early car anywhere but a parade. I will do a Transcon tour in a pre 16 car within the next few years. 1000’s of miles. Alert and careful planning. Compare to 1910 and at least we have roads! Crazy. Yep. Who wants to join?

Me, although I doubt I could get my Studebaker prepped for that in time. It's fine for short tours, but is going to need quite a bit of work to get ready for a long tour like that. I've put quite a bit of effort into figuring out where slow roads are, especially with an eye toward staying off of the interstate. Unfortunately there are some areas that just have one way thanks to terrain, and that way is the interstate. Offhand, Utah and Western South Dakota are fairly problematic, and they are not the only ones. I know some great roads, but if you are going transcontinental you have to be able to connect them. Most of the routes I know of currently are probably more appropriate for 30s cars than brass.

 

[DGPoff]

6 minutes ago, Bloo said:

Me, although I doubt I could get my Studebaker prepped for that in time. It's fine for short tours, but is going to need quite a bit of work to get ready for a long tour like that. I've put quite a bit of effort into figuring out where slow roads are, especially with an eye toward staying off of the interstate. Unfortunately there are some areas that just have one way thanks to terrain, and that way is the interstate. Offhand, Utah and Western South Dakota are fairly problematic, and they are not the only ones. I know some great roads, but if you are going transcontinental you have to be able to connect them. Most of the routes I know of currently are probably more appropriate for 30s cars than brass.

 

There will be challenges for sure, but I have ridden on simple roads cross country on a bicycle (when I was younger!) it can be done.

 

Your point on car preparation or as Ed may say “sorting”, is on point. And even then, there will be interesting days.

Edited August 24, 2023 by DGPoff (see edit history)

[ericmac]

On 8/22/2023 at 4:33 PM, kfle said:

order to do that you have to get it seen outside of the traditional selling avenues where the only people that will see it are the people that are downsizing their own collections and have been through their own horror story restorations.  

 

Times are changing and yes, prices will come down and level out but I have not really seen as big as a drop in the pre 1916 cars as I have the late 20's and 30's cars.  

Kevin, if you are willing to share, can you educate those of us who advertise exclusively in the traditional venues,  what do you see as the non-traditional ways of selling or acquiring a car?

[yachtflame]

14 hours ago, Soupiov said:

In the summer when I am up in the Adirondacks I

Where in the Adirondacks are you? I’m on the east side of Lake George, Pilot Knob.

Wayne

[kfle]

8 hours ago, ericmac said:

Kevin, if you are willing to share, can you educate those of us who advertise exclusively in the traditional venues,  what do you see as the non-traditional ways of selling or acquiring a car?

I have seen that it really depends on the car that you are selling and what the audience might be.  I have already mentioned BAT, but you need to take 100+ pictures and provide a lot of info so if you are going to sell something there then you need something that is going to at least present well and you need to be willing to take risk as they don't like sellers to put a reserve on a car.  If you do put a reserve and it doesn't sell you cannot try to sell the car again on there.  There are also other car sale sites or even instagram and other socials that are not market places where you can drum up interest.  

 

For my Model A, I never listed it on any site as if you do you will be in a list of many model A's for people to choose from and it only reaches the same people.  I started taking my Model A to cars and coffee's and local Car shows that were not focused on any pre war.  Of course I was the only early car there and lots of people came to check the car out.  I didnt even have a for sale sign on it.  One couple said 'wow some day I would really like to have a car like this as it looks like a lot of fun'.  Of course I answered, well maybe we can work something out as I dont use the car much anymore, etc.  I also sent them a owning your first Model A type of book as well so they were not completely lost.  

 

Anyways, I don't sell a lot but those are some things that I have observed.  I used to be into Porche's and new American muscle but 8 years ago my wife and I saw our first prewar car somewhere and made an impulse buy.  I would have never known to look at the AACA, HCCA, Hemmings, etc. or even searched for an old pre war car.  When we list our cars in those places we are advertising to a diminished audience and hence downward pressure on prices.  Like I said it depends on the car, it's appeal, etc., but if you get it out to a new crowd of people then there is a chance that it makes an emotional connection.  

 

Take for example this past weekend at the Woodward Dream Cruise.  I am in Florida now and did not attend but in just about every picture summary from the cruise I saw Rusty Berg and his early REO.  Why? Because he was one of the few with an early car at the dream cruise and he was driving it around having fun.  I bet much of the people lining the streets have never seen that car or a car like it in action.  I also bet if Rusty wanted to he could have had many offers that day for the car because there were some people there who were thinking that it was amazing and sure looked like a lot of fun.  

Edited August 24, 2023 by kfle (see edit history)

[8E45E]

10 hours ago, 1912Staver said:

Lots of Vancouver B.C. area cars end up on BAT, often with no attempt to sell locally. 

When an empty lot alone where you live sells for $850K coupled with an excessive cost-of-living, that leaves little money left over for what are rather expensive 'toys' like a vintage car.  And since they do consume a certain amount of space, plus the fact one would prefer to keep under cover in a garage, that limits your market even more.   I can easily see why sellers there want to think outside your box when it comes to placing a vintage car on the market.

 

Craig

[1912Staver]

4 hours ago, 8E45E said:

When an empty lot alone where you live sells for $850K coupled with an excessive cost-of-living, that leaves little money left over for what are rather expensive 'toys' like a vintage car.  And since they do consume a certain amount of space, plus the fact one would prefer to keep under cover in a garage, that limits your market even more.   I can easily see why sellers there want to think outside your box when it comes to placing a vintage car on the market.

 

Craig

Absolutely true for the younger generation.

  But most of the British sports cars appeal to an older demographic. People that are generally in a reasonably stable and perhaps even affluent situation. Most of the British cars leaving the area could just as well find a local home. Aston Martin's and similar will always chase the money, wherever that leads to. But the "ordinary " cars have just a good a chance of staying put as finding a long distance new home. 

  For the Morgan I previously mentioned I am sure the seller expected a big payday at the end of the auction. I am happy to say he was no doubt quite dissipointed in the hammer price. Had I known about the car { local advertising and a realistic asking price } I would have quite possibly given it a home myself. But seller greed led to the car ending up who knows where and probably lots of extra trouble and cost to the seller compared to a local sale.

 And a Vancouver area since new Morgan leaving the area probably forever. All that local history lost to greed.

    Same for the MGB GT that my new next door neighbor just sold. He owned it since new { 1967 } and advancing age made selling it necessary.  But for some reason a family member told him he would do a lot better selling it to a Washington State buyer. So off to the Seatle area it went. Not a mention of it being for sale locally. And the  BIG payday , about the same as or perhaps even slightly less than what someone in the Vancouver area would have paid.  And thats before the trouble and cost of an export sale is factored in.

Edited August 24, 2023 by 1912Staver (see edit history)