Air Conditioning- factory and aftermarket

[rocketraider]

There's a 59 BelAir sedan in "cars for sale- not mine" forum that has a dealer installed Chevrolet "Cool Pack" underdash A/C unit. Unusual enough in itself but it's on a six cylinder car. Based on my parents' 65 Impala that had a Sears Mark IV hang-on unit, I imagine that six knows that big GM A5/6 compressor is there.

 

We all know Packard and Cadillac offered rudimentary and clumsy factory installed systems in the 40s until low demand and WW2 put automotive A/C development on hold. Around 1953 the carmakers got back into it with trunk mounted systems which were still kinda clumsy. I believe it was Pontiac who introduced an integrated system around 1954 that put everything behind the dashboard and put the vents in the dash, as opposed to the package shelf or roofrail. Charles Coker is very knowledgeable on that system.

 

I found this Curbside Classic feature on the development of aftermarket underdash units interesting.

 

https://www.curbsideclassic.com/automotive-histories/cold-comfort-history-of-automotive-air-conditioning-part-2-the-aftermarket/

 

The underdash units were 100% recirculating systems and would freeze you out of the car. A triple black 1974 Impala was my parents' first factory air car and my Mama didn't like it. The car went back to the dealer half a dozen times or more because Mama said it didn't cool. Well, being triple black and having GM's Valves-in-Receiver AC, it was doing all it could do and was in factory spec. Specs said 55 degree air at center outlet on a 90 degree day was normal, but after having the underdash unit in a white car with turquoise interior, Mama wasn't buying it.

 

Anyone have 50s and 60s cars with either factory or aftermarket airconditioning?

[CChinn]

I have a 53 Packard Clipper with aftermarket a/c. Works really well and gets nice and icy cold. Perfect for hot/humid Central NC summers, especially during the recent weeks long heatwaves 

[m-mman]

If anyone is interested in the REAL history of automotive air conditioning I heartily recommend this book! 
 

Detroit didn’t “invent” A/C in fact they were slow to embrace it. Their Northeast thinking just didn’t believe that it was necessary or there was a big market for it. 
 

It was a group of people in Texas who went to town on automotive A/C. Texas, they needed it and had a market for it. 
 

Most of the early systems were based on the work of the Texans and their systems were branded by the automakers.  
 

Excellent book, learn the real story that you never knew. 

 

 

 

https://www.amazon.com/That-Feels-Good-entrepreneurs-Satisfaction/dp/1481194062

[Rusty_OToole]

I heard AC was invented by 3 guys named Hi, Norm, and Max and that is why their names appear on every AC system.

[Ben Bruce aka First Born]

16 minutes ago, Rusty_OToole said:

I heard AC was invented by 3 guys named Hi, Norm, and Max and that is why their names appear on every AC system.

 

 GROAN!!😁

 

  I have a Mark IV from the '60s in my 1950 Buick.  Modern Sanden compressor.  Modern condenser. Works well but does not "freeze "  me out.

 

  Ben

[PONTIAC1953]

1 hour ago, rocketraider said:

There's a 59 BelAir sedan in "cars for sale- not mine" forum that has a dealer installed Chevrolet "Cool Pack" underdash A/C unit. Unusual enough in itself but it's on a six cylinder car. Based on my parents' 65 Impala that had a Sears Mark IV hang-on unit, I imagine that six knows that big GM A5/6 compressor is there.

 

We all know Packard and Cadillac offered rudimentary and clumsy factory installed systems in the 40s until low demand and WW2 put automotive A/C development on hold. Around 1953 the carmakers got back into it with trunk mounted systems which were still kinda clumsy. I believe it was Pontiac who introduced an integrated system around 1954 that put everything behind the dashboard and put the vents in the dash, as opposed to the package shelf or roofrail. Charles Coker is very knowledgeable on that system.

 

I found this Curbside Classic feature on the development of aftermarket underdash units interesting.

 

https://www.curbsideclassic.com/automotive-histories/cold-comfort-history-of-automotive-air-conditioning-part-2-the-aftermarket/

 

The underdash units were 100% recirculating systems and would freeze you out of the car. A triple black 1974 Impala was my parents' first factory air car and my Mama didn't like it. The car went back to the dealer half a dozen times or more because Mama said it didn't cool. Well, being triple black and having GM's Valves-in-Receiver AC, it was doing all it could do and was in factory spec. Specs said 55 degree air at center outlet on a 90 degree day was normal, but after having the underdash unit in a white car with turquoise interior, Mama wasn't buying it.

 

Anyone have 50s and 60s cars with either factory or aftermarket airconditioning?

Thanks Rocketraider for mentioning me, I once owned a 1960 Pontiac Bonneville Coupe with the dealer installed Cool Pack a/c under the dash, my re-engineering of my 1953 Pontiac Chieftain Custom Catalina includes both the 1954 Pontiac up front in dash factory a/c as designed by the Harrison Division and the 1955 Buick rear a/c designed by Frigidaire Division, the A5 compressor and mounting brackets from a 1955 Pontiac 287 V8 will be mounted on the 1959 Pontiac 389 V8 going into my Chieftain Custom Catalina's engine bay.

[TexRiv_63]

My Dad installed an under-dash unit in his 1960 Ford. I think the compressor was always on when the unit was on with no cycling, it worked but the evaporator core would freeze up in really hot weather.

 

I had a 1957 Lincoln Premiere with factory air in the trunk. Fascinating and heavy system but it was inoperable. My 63 Olds Starfire had factory air and worked pretty well after a budget R134 conversion but it was a black car. If you left it in the sun good luck cooling it down enough. My 67 Olds Toronado,  68 Cadillac Eldorado and 79 Cadillac wagon had Comfortron factory air. They all were operable but only the wagon worked well enough to handle really hot weather. And I successfully did an R134 conversion with all new underhood parts on my 66 Dodge Monaco wagon with dual unit factory air.

 

I would love to add under-dash air to my 60 Buick LeSabre and have asked for help here but the responses have not been positive, maybe this thread will help!

[rocketraider]

Don, I think your biggest issue with the Sixty is going to be finding Nailhead compressor mounting brackets. There were enough factory air Buicks by 1965-66 that there should be some somewhere, along with factory style alternator and brackets. I think Frigidaire A6 brackets can be adapted to use a Sanden compressor.

 

Refrigerant side would be same as installing an ARA, Mark IV or other aftermarket style unit back in the day. Drill a couple holes for refrigerant lines in firewall and floor, and a couple under the dash to hold the evaporator and housing.

 

One of the 64 Starfires has a JC Penney underdash unit, the other is a factory air car. I'd as soon the hang-on was gone because when it was installed the tachometer was removed. Should have been mounted in passenger footwell like Ford did with Mustangs and Thunderbirds.

 

The others are all factory air cars. Never owned a Comfortron car but the 76 Ninety Eight and the 78 Custom Cruiser have Tempmatic. Both work well.

 

After converting to R134A the wagon would still deliver 38° air at center outlet and maintain setpoint as long as you were moving . If you were stopped or in slow moving traffic it was like you'd turned on a sauna.

[pkhammer]

I know of a '55 Cadillac Limo being parted out that still has the in-trunk A/C stuff, original 331 engine and compressor. Just in case anyone reading this needs it.

[Harold]

I had several government surplus 1969-1970 Ford Fairlanes that had aftermarket Mark IV air conditioners.  They had Ford compressors as I recall.  The systems worked well and kept the cars comfortable in 90+ degree weather.

[Frank DuVal]

8 hours ago, rocketraider said:

One of the 64 Starfires has a JC Penney underdash unit, the other is a factory air car. I'd as soon the hang-on was gone because when it was installed the tachometer was removed. Should have been mounted in passenger footwell like Ford did with Mustangs and Thunderbirds.

The 66 Mustang I worked on had the hang on AC right in the middle, under the dash, forward of the floor shifter. I have seen others just like it. What ones were under the dash on the passenger side?

[Frank DuVal]

8 hours ago, rocketraider said:

After converting to R134A the wagon would still deliver 38° air at center outlet and maintain setpoint as long as you were moving . If you were stopped or in slow moving traffic it was like you'd turned on a sauna.

This is why electric pusher fans were invented, to keep high side pressures down to reasonable levels.

[rocketraider]

3 hours ago, Harold said:

I had several government surplus 1969-1970 Ford Fairlanes that had aftermarket Mark IV air conditioners.  They had Ford compressors as I recall.  The systems worked well and kept the cars comfortable in 90+ degree weather.

I believe Ford used either York or Tecumseh piston and crankshaft compressors, same as a lot of the aftermarket units did. Good units if a tad noisy.

 

I remember puzzling over how an A5/A6 compressor could possibly work, then finally saw one opened up with the swash plate and pistons exposed. Then it all made sense.

[rocketraider]

Sorry Frank- 67-later Mustangs with full length consoles.

 

When that car was converted we were all still learning about how to make it work. It was running at highway speeds 90% of the time so I could live with it.

 

 

[marcapra]

I have some 1942 DeSoto literature that shows a complete AC unit with the compressor near the motor fan, and the evaporator unit in the trunk with the air outlet on the package shelf.  The war prevented these from being intalled on any cars in the 40s, so Chrysler came out with the AirTemp AC unit in the early 50s.  They must have made room AC units also because I have seen motel AC units with the AirTemp name.  I learned that this company came about because W. P. Chrysler demaded that his Chrysler building in NYC have AC in 1930.

Edited August 1, 2023 by marcapra (see edit history)

[Bloo]

56 minutes ago, rocketraider said:

I believe Ford used either York or Tecumseh piston and crankshaft compressors, same as a lot of the aftermarket units did. Good units if a tad noisy.

A tad? It was like having a knocking lawnmower under the hood. Sure did cool good though (on r12). 

 

[rocketraider]

Wayal... Tecumseh made lawnmower engines too!

 

I remember a local department store installed central AC in late 50s. Big AirTemp unit. They put the 1st floor unit in the streetside display window so everyone could see it.

 

They also had a Magic-Eye automatic door opener system on their street level glass doors. The works for that thing were visible in their bargain basement and totally fascinated me. Combination of an electric eye trigger and pneumatics.

[Guest]

My 59 tbird has factory ac (in not under dash).  I had it out and a stranger was talking to me about his tbird that had "factory air" but his confusion was that his was under the dash not in like mine but he knew his came new from the dealer like that.  I was able to explain the difference between dealer and factory air on a new car.

[West Peterson]

9 hours ago, marcapra said:

I have some 1942 DeSoto literature that shows a complete AC unit with the compressor near the motor fan, and the evaporator unit in the trunk with the air outlet on the package shelf.  The war prevented these from being intalled on any cars in the 40s, so Chrysler came out with the AirTemp AC unit in the early 50s.  They must have made room AC units also because I have seen motel AC units with the AirTemp name.  I learned that this company came about because W. P. Chrysler demaded that his Chrysler building in NYC have AC in 1930.

 

PLEASE post those images!!!

 

[rocketraider]

Sounds like an idea for an Antique Automobile feature story!😀

[TexRiv_63]

21 hours ago, rocketraider said:

Don, I think your biggest issue with the Sixty is going to be finding Nailhead compressor mounting brackets. There were enough factory air Buicks by 1965-66 that there should be some somewhere, along with factory style alternator and brackets. I think Frigidaire A6 brackets can be adapted to use a Sanden compressor.

 

 

The biggest problem seems to be the fact my car has the 364 engine which has a lower deck height than the more common 401. Plenty of brackets available for the 401 but none for the 364 except unobtainium factory ones, very few LeSabres had factory air. The factory A6 brackets work great for a Sanden conversion, I did that when I put a Vintage Air conversion in my 63 Riviera.

[rocketraider]

You'd think there'd be 364 AC parts cars in Texas or anywhere in Sun Belt.

 

Oldsmobile was notorious for using thick spacers on some components in order to be able to use them on both small and big block engines. Maybe an option?

[pfloro]

While growing up in NJ, my dad had a new 1966 Fairlane sedan with factory A/C...   Of course, that big old cast iron 2 cylinder compressor

(York or Tecumseh) sat on top of the 289...   The unit cooled well and it was a thrill to have A/C the family car...!  However, that car had no

power steering so it was tough to parallel park.

 

20 years ago, we had a clone 1966 Mustang GT convertible with the correct "hang under" Ford A/C system.   I was also amazed at how well

it cooled (even in a convertible).  When I restored the car, I did have it charged with R-12. 

 

Paul

Edited August 1, 2023 by pfloro (see edit history)

[marcapra]

6 hours ago, West Peterson said:

 

PLEASE post those images!!!

 

"While the Airfoil headlamps were the most visible innovation at DeSoto for 1942, the division was also an early adopter of air conditioning, along with Packard (1940) and Cadillac (1941). Like all the early automotive A/C units, the Chrysler Airtemp package, first used on the Imperial in 1941, was large and bulky, with the evaporator and distributor mounted behind the rear seat. Barely a handful of these expensive setups were sold in ’42. Integrated, in-dash A/C would be introduced by Nash and Pontiac in 1954."

Edited August 1, 2023 by marcapra (see edit history)

[Ed Luddy]

This 1963 Studebaker GT Hawk has an aftermarket under dash unit and yes it would freeze you out on hot muggy July day! I can't find any pictures of the unit right now.

[Bryan G]

A friend of mine has owned Cadillacs since he started driving in the fifties. He related to me once that him and a friend owned one together, I think an early fifties model, and they wanted to add AC. They found a window AC that I guess must have used a belt-driven compressor, and they were able to rig something up. They mounted the evaporator in the trunk. Had to have been a real Rube Goldberg affair! 

 

Once I was asked if I could look at a late model Volkswagen with an AC problem. Well, I've never really been a mechanic, but as a favor I took a gander. I found that the single cooling fan wouldn't come on at all. Now, I'm not a VW fan, but I was very impressed: on a hot summer day, we could not get that car to overheat sitting still with a non-running fan. The needle actually never left 1/3 on the gauge. But, sitting still, no AC. As soon as you got moving at all, it would cool off. Lesson: a good shroud or aux. fan can make a big difference. 

 

I have an ARA flyer showing the dealer-installed options available for the '72 Chevrolet line. The most popular models could be had either in-dash or under. They even offered the package for the LUV. I did have an early 80s S10 with ARA in-dash AC. I had to put two and two together to figure that out; the control panel didn't match the owner's manual, and there was an ARA sticker on the door jamb (but at the time I didn't know anything about them.) It never worked all that great, but does rank as my first air conditioned vehicle.

[rocketraider]

Picture of the flyer?

[oldcarfudd]

More than 20 years ago, when I was playing with Model As, there was a fellow whose wife had a severe breathing problem.  He hung an apartment window unit in the rear window of his Model A sedan and blocked off the rest of that window with plywood.  Then he mounted a gasoline-engined emergency 110-volt generator on a trunk rack to power the AC.  It looked ridiculous, but it worked, and his wife could ride in an air-conditioned Model A sedan in the heat of summer and breathe comfortably.

[Pfeil]

Anyone have 50s and 60s cars with either factory or aftermarket air-conditioning?

 

Yes! I have a factory air 1963 Pontiac Catalina. When I bought the car, it had an attempted R134 conversion. Basically, charging ports added to the compressor, no high-pressure, low-pressure switches etc. I re-converted to R-12. No problems and nice and cold.

 I also have a 1969 Pontiac H-O LeMans with factory air conditioning. I ordered the car in Nov 68 and took delivery just before Christmas 1969. The unit is also a R12 as intended by Pontiac. The only service work done has been an evaporator replacement due to a leak in an oil return line where it's soldered into the bottom of the evaporator. I replaced this evaporator in 1992. Telltale sign was small amount of refrigerant oil in the evaporator water drain that goes to the ground.

FYI, G.M. Frigidaire compressors according to the service manual are supposed to slightly weep. Buick division put an oil shield on the compressor to direct any oil to the ground. I copied a shield from a friends Buick and made exact replicas for my Pontiacs. Took about 40 minutes to make two and they are effective and look just like factory Buick.

Here is one installed on a friends 1966 GTO,

[TexRiv_63]

23 hours ago, rocketraider said:

You'd think there'd be 364 AC parts cars in Texas or anywhere in Sun Belt.

 

Oldsmobile was notorious for using thick spacers on some components in order to be able to use them on both small and big block engines. Maybe an option?

I have asked multiple times here and on Facebook for help from anyone who has done an underdash conversion on a 60 Buick and all I've heard is crickets.

[rocketraider]

With BCA groups in Texas, New Mexico, Arizona, southern California and Florida (all big AC markets), someone should know where a 364 AC car might be. Either a factory air or aftermarket unit could supply your compressor brackets.

[junkyardjeff]

Years ago I put a Sears under dash air in my 53 Olds,I took it out of a 62 Olds in a junkyard and it worked great.  I did find a 60 Chevy wagon at the same junkyard that had the dealer installed air that also had a six,thinking I could use it in my 37 Chevy p/I but it was too large and got sold.

[PONTIAC1953]

22 hours ago, marcapra said:

"While the Airfoil headlamps were the most visible innovation at DeSoto for 1942, the division was also an early adopter of air conditioning, along with Packard (1940) and Cadillac (1941). Like all the early automotive A/C units, the Chrysler Airtemp package, first used on the Imperial in 1941, was large and bulky, with the evaporator and distributor mounted behind the rear seat. Barely a handful of these expensive setups were sold in ’42. Integrated, in-dash A/C would be introduced by Nash and Pontiac in 1954."

these early air conditioning systems used a compressor that was always running even when the a/c control was turned off, there would be two sets of fan belts, the shorter set of belts bypass the compressor for winter or cold weather conditions, even in 1953, when the air conditioning option returned for the first time after WWII, the Frigidaire fatboy compressor had no clutch to engage/disengage the compressor, frigidaire used a bypass valve to circulate the freon without going to the rear evaporator/blower fan unit, in 1954 Oldsmobiles with the fatboy compressor, a electric solenoid and a clutch fork mechanism engage/disengage the compressor, 1954 Pontiac with the Harrison designed a/c system was first using a compressor with a modern electric-magnetic clutch built inside the compressor pulley, then in 1955, with the introduction of the frigidaire A5 compressor, Cadillac, Buick, Oldsmobile caught up with Pontiac's lead in having a modern electric-magnetic clutch compressor. here's a picture of the direct drive (no clutch) fatboy compressor in a 1953 Buick factory a/c.

[Marty Roth]

On 7/31/2023 at 12:07 PM, Rusty_OToole said:

I heard AC was invented by 3 guys named Hi, Norm, and Max and that is why their names appear on every AC system.

A version of the balance of this very contrived story continues that back in the late 1930s the three Goldberg brothers, Hi (Hymie), Norman, and Max offered their A/C system to Henry Ford, but with the stipulation that it be called Goldberg-Air. Old timers will recall Henry's virulent antisemitic activities. While Mr Ford wanted sole use of the invention, he didn't and surely wouldn't allow such a name attached to his product. He ultimately paid several times the originally-requested amount, using not the last name of Goldberg, but using the brothers' first names - Hi, Norm, and Max !

[Rusty_OToole]

2 hours ago, Marty Roth said:

A version of the balance of this very contrived story continues that back in the late 1930s the three Goldberg brothers, Hi (Hymie), Norman, and Max offered their A/C system to Henry Ford, but with the stipulation that it be called Goldberg-Air. Old timers will recall Henry's virulent antisemitic activities. While Mr Ford wanted sole use of the invention, he didn't and surely wouldn't allow such a name attached to his product. He ultimately paid several times the originally-requested amount, using not the last name of Goldberg, but using the brothers' first names - Hi, Norm, and Max !

For an anti Semite Ford employed a lot of Jews including the architect who built his factories and his own home. I heard a story about a friend of his who pointed out that he thought highly of a certain Jew, and Ford said "he's not pure Jewish - he's mixed"  and about a Catholic friend "he's not a good Catholic". In other words he didn't like Jews and Catholics but if he liked you, it didn't count.

He had an old friend Rabbi Franklin he gave a new Ford  every year until the rabbi broke off relations because of his anti semitism. Ford was dismayed by this, he had nothing against ordinary jews but the big shadowy money men he believed were running things behind the scenes. He got this from the socialists and political reformers he got to know through his labor research, many of whom were Jewish.

[Bryan G]

On 8/1/2023 at 10:41 PM, rocketraider said:

Picture of the flyer?

Gosh, making me work!

[John348]

The Chevy Cool Pack in my 1962 Biscayne. Would work much better on R-12, because of the lower temperature of R-12 at the evaporator. I restored the unit and it was a cool experience, and learned a lot.

 

  

[Frank DuVal]

Wow, Bryan, first picture shows AC in a three speed manual shift Chevelle.👍

 

John, great Cool Pack! Don't you have R-12 in it now? 

[rocketraider]

John, does the Cool-Pack ducting tie into the Biscayne's heater defroster?

[John348]

5 hours ago, rocketraider said:

John, does the Cool-Pack ducting tie into the Biscayne's heater defroster?

No, it recycles the cabin air in the car. The two systems are independent of each other. The artist rendering in the brochure shows the entire system. It works, better at night and on cloudy days, and it is fairly loud.