12,000 for paint materials ????

[EmTee]

I remember buying a gallon of Dulux red for my '56 Chevy in 1975 was ~$100.  I think a gallon of reducer was about $20.  Of course I thought that was crazy when a gallon of latex house paint was around $10...

[Xander Wildeisen]

12k seems high in materials. I think there is a large amount of material waste, or stuff is walking out the door on someone else’s car. Last stuff I bought was around 100 dollars per gallon on primers/sealers/high build primers, + or -. Paint was around 750-2000 a gallon high end was for specialty paint tri stage. Body fillers 75-120 a gallon.

[Xander Wildeisen]

Quick check on body filler 60-160 a gallon. About the same price.

[Xander Wildeisen]

High build primers 100-130 about the same cost. Paint is all over the map in price. Top shelf stuff is spendy, I have always tried to use quality products when it comes to paint. Never had a problem with any quality paint products. Cheap stuff can be found and used. But if you have a problem, it is no longer cheap.

[Rusty_OToole]

9 hours ago, 1937hd45 said:

I bought two gallons of Honduras Maroon for the last car I painted 20+ years ago used half of one and it went with the car when I sold it. What are the chances the UNOPENED gallon is still good? $$$$$$$$$$$

I would use it if it is not curdled or dried up. In 1958 Bill Hines built a custom 50 Ford called the Li'l Bat. He painted it  with black lacquer. Around 2010 he recreated this car and painted it with a left over gallon of black lacquer he had on the shelf in his shop since 1958. It worked fine.

 

In the early seventies I bought 120 quarts of leftover paint from a defunct Chrysler dealership. This was part cans of paint left over from doing repairs in the body shop.Paid $5 for a shelf full of quarts of enamel, $2 for a shelf full of pints of lacquer. So $7 for 120 quarts of paint. I used this stuff for years to paint cars, trucks, machinery around the shop etc. Never had a problem.

 

I did have to discard 3 or 4 cans that were improperly sealed and had dried out, that was all. In those days I would paint your car or pickup truck for $65 if you weren't too choosy about the color.

[Bryan G]

I have a decent amount of experience in this; I have a hard time coming up with a legitimate way to get to twelve grand. I could see, at the very high end perhaps $3000, maybe $3500, and that's a stretch. Yes, good automotive paint is expensive but I have a hard time figuring out how you could put that much paint on a car A bunch of House of Kolor custom stuff and 18 coats of hand rubbed clearcoat? I suspect more likely, a very high markup on the shop's cost, plus the materials list has a lot of non-paint shop supplies baked in. Beware that all the major paint companies provide an invoicing program to shops...and shops can have it spit out whatever markup they want. I've reviewed plenty of these. One of the reasons why your insurance company doesn't trust body shops.

[nearchoclatetown]

I do not believe anyone paid $12000 for JUST materials to paint a car. 

[John348]

15 hours ago, rwchatham said:

Just wrapping up the paint work on a 53 Cadillac restoration and the total bill for paint materials from start to finish came in at 12 k  !  This is getting insane . 

That sounds about right. It's not just the paint, there was plastic, sand paper, primers, more sand paper, more primer. I bought a gallon of prep-sol over the summer and it was near $80, how many gallons of that did they go through? I spent close to that in materials 5 years ago, and I was very happy with results. It might be the invoice for all of the materials for all the tasks being performed on the in the shop, not just the paint aspect.

Quality materials will contribute to a better job in the end. If your happy with the results and the vendor is comfortable and know- legible working with a certain particular product. 

Edited April 9, 2023 by John348 (see edit history)

[MGRAB]

If you have a true Time & Material contract, there should be no labor within the material line-item.  Look carefully at the third-party invoice.  It should be between the material manufacturer or distributor and the shop, not you.  The "Billed To" should be to the shop and whatever markup you have should be shown as a calculated amount on top.  You have a right to see that, don't let someone tell you it isn't (unless you don't have no agreement).  I hate to say it but 1/4 to 1/3 of the time these days you learn something you don't want to know when you ask for this support. I do that for a living.

[Dandy Dave]

19 hours ago, 1937hd45 said:

Nice work Dave! Did Pete Wing help you when you first got started? 

I was actually already painting when I met Pete. Peter Wing would go to yard sales and garage sales and buy any used paint that he could find that still seemed good. And from this he did his paintings. A real "out of the box" Artist was he. Me, unlike Pete, I went to the Art store because that is what the Art instructor in college said to do. I also have two of his prints that he signed the back of and gave me. The one you have and this one. Have you spotted the naked lady he has hidden in each of his works? Keep looking, It's there. 🙂

 

Edited April 9, 2023 by Dandy Dave (see edit history)

[Littlestown Mike]

I think I understand inflation----when I see the price of almost anything, I simply divide by 10, and then judge if the price seems "right".  I graduated high school in 1967 so that era is my basis---gas cost between 30 cents and 35 cents a gallon---today we are about $3.00 to $3.50 depending somewhat on the local taxes.

You couls by a new car for $2000--not a great car, but a new car---today---$20,000 gets you in the door--again depending on market variables.

This works for most things.

My memory of paint costs is not great---I think I bought a gallon of enamel with the reducers for about $35-$40---that would be about $400 today--for a basic enamel.

Factor in the advances (?) in chemistry and the salary of all those chemists---and what do you get?

 

My question is not so much the cost, but the durability---In the 1960s Ford advertised that their enamels never never needed waxing--that the luster would remain.  Are the new paint chemistries really much better.  I read that even urethanes do not survive prolonged exposure to UV.  Is that true?

[30DodgePanel]

This may or may not help put things into perspective for some of us. 

 

I started it at the 1:50 mark to pass all of the sponsorship he has in his videos.

Keep in mind this is just one example of a gallon of paint. I would be curious to know what the original poster used and it may help some of us understand if he could itemize his costs. If he does, I know many of us will be shocked. 

 

 

[rwchatham]

11 hours ago, Xander Wildeisen said:

12k seems high in materials. I think there is a large amount of material waste, or stuff is walking out the door on someone else’s car. Last stuff I bought was around 100 dollars per gallon on primers/sealers/high build primers, + or -. Paint was around 750-2000 a gallon high end was for specialty paint tri stage. Body fillers 75-120 a gallon.

When a gallon of base coat is 1500 at the local ppg dealer now times that by 3 gallons for a cadillac and it doesnt take long to get to 12k. 

[rwchatham]

12 hours ago, Xander Wildeisen said:

High build primers 100-130 about the same cost. Paint is all over the map in price. Top shelf stuff is spendy, I have always tried to use quality products when it comes to paint. Never had a problem with any quality paint products. Cheap stuff can be found and used. But if you have a problem, it is no longer cheap.

Quality high build primers are more like 400 a gallon 

[Xander Wildeisen]

A gallon of base coat at 1,500. Three gallons needed for a Cadillac. 4,500 in base paint alone. I am going to run with your numbers. Three gallons of base paint reduced most likely to a 1:1 ratio. Gives you six gallons of sprayable material.  Yes base can be 1,500. And top shelf paint is expensive, PPG is a great product line. I have used it before. My experience in painting is doing my own stuff. As a business I have always farmed out the paint work. 12k in materials alone, shop hourly rates for prep and body work. Labor to cut and polish. A high quality paint job will by itself eclipse the value of the car. I have worked on customers cars that have had 100’s of thousands of dollars in. My stuff is done in the corner on the cheap. Don’t doubt what you are saying, crazy numbers. Prices I gave are right off Summit Racings website.

[rwchatham]

7 minutes ago, Xander Wildeisen said:

A gallon of base coat at 1,500. Three gallons needed for a Cadillac. 4,500 in base paint alone. I am going to run with your numbers. Three gallons of base paint reduced most likely to a 1:1 ratio. Gives you six gallons of sprayable material.  Yes base can be 1,500. And top shelf paint is expensive, PPG is a great product line. I have used it before. My experience in painting is doing my own stuff. As a business I have always farmed out the paint work. 12k in materials alone, shop hourly rates for prep and body work. Labor to cut and polish. A high quality paint job will by itself eclipse the value of the car. I have worked on customers cars that have had 100’s of thousands of dollars in. My stuff is done in the corner on the cheap. Don’t doubt what you are saying, crazy numbers. Prices I gave are right off Summit Racings website.

Yes there are less expensive ways to do things , all depends what the final goal

is , it is like chrome plating you can spend 10 or 100k . 

[Mike "Hubbie" Stearns]

Last year I spent about $1400 for 2 gallons of base coat, gallon of reducer, 2 gallons clear with hardener and a new hvlp gun. That’s it. It wasn’t top shelf ppg. I had 2 gallons of primer, reducer and a gallon of filler. That about $800. Add another $500 for sandpaper. That’s $2700 for material. I have no idea on hours of sanding and priming. About a week to shoot base and clear. I still need to do the cut and buff. Then there’s all the gold leaf, clear the gold leaf, pin striping, scrolls, and clear the scrolls. Add another $2000 for that. That’s $4700 for material only for red. Mike

[rwchatham]

1 hour ago, Mike "Hubbie" Stearns said:

Last year I spent about $1400 for 2 gallons of base coat, gallon of reducer, 2 gallons clear with hardener and a new hvlp gun. That’s it. It wasn’t top shelf ppg. I had 2 gallons of primer, reducer and a gallon of filler. That about $800. Add another $500 for sandpaper. That’s $2700 for material. I have no idea on hours of sanding and priming. About a week to shoot base and clear. I still need to do the cut and buff. Then there’s all the gold leaf, clear the gold leaf, pin striping, scrolls, and clear the scrolls. Add another $2000 for that. That’s $4700 for material only for red. Mike

Exactly many different variables  from car to car , its like buying a hvlp gun you can spend 100 bucks or a thousand . 

[rwchatham]

13 hours ago, Bryan G said:

I have a decent amount of experience in this; I have a hard time coming up with a legitimate way to get to twelve grand. I could see, at the very high end perhaps $3000, maybe $3500, and that's a stretch. Yes, good automotive paint is expensive but I have a hard time figuring out how you could put that much paint on a car A bunch of House of Kolor custom stuff and 18 coats of hand rubbed clearcoat? I suspect more likely, a very high markup on the shop's cost, plus the materials list has a lot of non-paint shop supplies baked in. Beware that all the major paint companies provide an invoicing program to shops...and shops can have it spit out whatever markup they want. I've reviewed plenty of these. One of the reasons why your insurance company doesn't trust body shops.

Buying from the supplier so shop mark  up doesn’t really come into play here . 

[Xander Wildeisen]

What is the scope of your build/restoration. Are you painting the underside of the car as well?

[Guest]

When I painted my Mom's '28 roadster a number of years back we bought the proper automotive paint color for the body but opted for basic rustoleum for the fenders/chasis as I was going clear coat on top.  The rustoleum was able to be sanded and worked over 320 is all thats needed prior to clear.  Long story short the fenders held up far better than the body and ended up looking beautiful.  Next car I do will be rustoleum, good clear, and a simple harbor freight gun.

[JFranklin]

I have used industrial polyurethane (Rodda) on one car I did. It doesn't come in custom colors, but the dark blue was what I wanted. It does come in black also. It was much less costly to use.

Edited April 9, 2023 by JFranklin (see edit history)

[Harold]

I've seen some very nice Maaco paint jobs.  Makes me wonder how places like Maaco can buy the materials, do the prep (granted it's minimal in some cases), spray the paint, and then have profit left over.  All for a fraction of the $12K quoted for the materials alone.

[JACK M]

8 hours ago, Dandy Dave said:

 Have you spotted the naked lady he has hidden in each of his works? Keep looking, It's there. 🙂

 

I give up.

[30DodgePanel]

28 minutes ago, JACK M said:

I give up.

 

I gave up after 5 mins. 

It took that long to realize he was pulling our legs.

At about 4 mins in I started hallucinating 

 

[TAKerry]

When I painted my black car 6 or so years ago, I think I had less than $2500. total in all of the materials. Paint, clear coat, sand paper, fill primer, epoxy primer, gun cleaner, hardener, etc. One of the biggest shocks in cost I had was about $300 in material to buff out the paint once it was wet sanded. I bought all of my paint from Summit. Still looks good and holding up well. I had all of the hard materials when I painted my silver car. Sandpaper, paint gun, buffer, buffing material, primer etc. I did have to buy the paint. I got it from a company called automotive touch up. They sell from nail polish size touch up through gallons. I think I spent less than $400 on the paint.

[Mark Shaw]

3 hours ago, Harold said:

I've seen some very nice Maaco paint jobs.

I have had three of my cars painted by MAACO.  They have also done only the fenders on one of my older cars because I painted the wood body with single state Acrylic Enamel Marine Paint.  

Edited April 9, 2023 by Mark Shaw (see edit history)

[rwchatham]

6 hours ago, Xander Wildeisen said:

What is the scope of your build/restoration. Are you painting the underside of the car as well?

The underside is finished in red oxide primer . 

[rwchatham]

21 hours ago, nearchoclatetown said:

I do not believe anyone paid $12000 for JUST materials to paint a car. 

Would you the believe the car will receive 100  hours of hand sanding and buffing on the clear ? 

[Bryan G]

I used to mix paint, or print off the mixes for the painter who mixed it. Grew to have a really good feel for how much basecoat it took to do a job. We did a LOT of all-over paint jobs, at least one a week for decades. Loads of big Cadillacs and Lincolns, tons of full-size pickup trucks. I don't recall ever needing more than maybe a few quarts of base for the largest jobs. Okay, okay, maybe you're doing the undercarriage, floor, full engine compartment and trunk...so maybe you double that? Some colors you could basecoat the whole thing with a quart. Toughest was yellows, especially after they took out the "good stuff" (lead, nickel, etc.)  A good shop will have their own mixing bank so won't have to order base by the gallon, but will just mix exactly what they need. 

[Rusty_OToole]

15 hours ago, Littlestown Mike said:

I think I understand inflation----when I see the price of almost anything, I simply divide by 10, and then judge if the price seems "right".  I graduated high school in 1967 so that era is my basis---gas cost between 30 cents and 35 cents a gallon---today we are about $3.00 to $3.50 depending somewhat on the local taxes.

You couls by a new car for $2000--not a great car, but a new car---today---$20,000 gets you in the door--again depending on market variables.

This works for most things.

My memory of paint costs is not great---I think I bought a gallon of enamel with the reducers for about $35-$40---that would be about $400 today--for a basic enamel.

Factor in the advances (?) in chemistry and the salary of all those chemists---and what do you get?

 

My question is not so much the cost, but the durability---In the 1960s Ford advertised that their enamels never never needed waxing--that the luster would remain.  Are the new paint chemistries really much better.  I read that even urethanes do not survive prolonged exposure to UV.  Is that true?

This brings up an interesting question. By your reckoning $1 today = 10 cents 60 years ago. So where did the other 90 cents go? Who got it? When you figure that out, and when you find out who controls the amount of money printed and why.....

[Rusty_OToole]

11 hours ago, swab said:

When I painted my Mom's '28 roadster a number of years back we bought the proper automotive paint color for the body but opted for basic rustoleum for the fenders/chasis as I was going clear coat on top.  The rustoleum was able to be sanded and worked over 320 is all thats needed prior to clear.  Long story short the fenders held up far better than the body and ended up looking beautiful.  Next car I do will be rustoleum, good clear, and a simple harbor freight gun.

You are not the first person to do a nice car in Rustoleum, or Tremclad here in Canada. There was a lot of interest, a few years ago, generated by a guy who painted his Dodge Charger with Tremclad, using brushes and rollers! He did a careful job building up thin coats over several days, wet sanding in between coats and got an excellent finish. This was debated pro and con around the world, some guys in Australia got the idea of using marine enamel made for brush painting and of course, very durable under harsh weather conditions, sun and salt.

 

Did you use any hardener in the Rustoleum and do you have any tips for the clear, as in what kind did you use, and what sandpaper did you used before the clear?

[Guest]

When it comes to the color I will thin it as needed to get something I can spray out of a hvlp gravity gun which usually isnt much.  Multiple coats can be put on, the trick here is to obviously not spray on top of a thick coat and wind up with wrinkles.  Any sags or runs can be sanded out.  As far as sanding before the clear 320 is about the best choice, it allows the clear to penetrate and bond delivering a much better look.  Finer and you lose the bonding, it looks crazy before spraying the clear but works beautifully.  As far as the clear I can't remember which one was used but we went into a paint shop to buy it so at the time it was a good automotive clear.  No hardener was used in the rustoleum, on the same topic I have had good luck with marine paint and spraying unreduced thru a gun.  I may switch to marine (single part easypoxy) and clear on top of that in the future.

[Durant Mike]

About 6 months ago purchased a gallon of one color green and 1 quart of another along with reducer and a gallon of clear coat from Autocolor Library in the factory colors for my Durant. It cost $1,400 for that.  Restoration shop bought the primer and I don't recall what the cost of that was.  It was their brand of paint. I guess that wasn't that bad.

[Xander Wildeisen]

Top shelf stuff is spendy. “Pardon me, will you pass the PPG”😂. 

 

[Leif in Calif]

On 4/8/2023 at 11:23 AM, vermontboy said:

When we bought paint for my dads Pierce Arrow back in 1961 I remember that Ditzler Nitrocellulose Black was $7 per gallon. You didn't need a spray booth back then either. You could vacuum up the overspray. 

I remember those days, and the sweet smell of laquer. 

[Leif in Calif]

Years ago there there 2 large glass companies in the US: LOF (Libby Owens Ford) and PPG (originally Pittsburg Plate Glass). LOF has been bought out a few times and is now owned by NSG (Nippon Sheet Glass). PPG is still around but they don't make glass anymore.  They discovered there was way more money in paint! 

[bryankazmer]

PPG sold their glass manufacturing to Fuyao Glass.

[rwchatham]

20 hours ago, Bryan G said:

I used to mix paint, or print off the mixes for the painter who mixed it. Grew to have a really good feel for how much basecoat it took to do a job. We did a LOT of all-over paint jobs, at least one a week for decades. Loads of big Cadillacs and Lincolns, tons of full-size pickup trucks. I don't recall ever needing more than maybe a few quarts of base for the largest jobs. Okay, okay, maybe you're doing the undercarriage, floor, full engine compartment and trunk...so maybe you double that? Some colors you could basecoat the whole thing with a quart. Toughest was yellows, especially after they took out the "good stuff" (lead, nickel, etc.)  A good shop will have their own mixing bank so won't have to order base by the gallon, but will just mix exactly what they need. 

A dew quarts that must have been some pretty thin coverage !! Takes over a gallon to just prime the thing !!

[Littlestown Mike]

On 4/9/2023 at 11:21 PM, Rusty_OToole said:

This brings up an interesting question. By your reckoning $1 today = 10 cents 60 years ago. So where did the other 90 cents go? Who got it? When you figure that out, and when you find out who controls the amount of money printed and why.....

I really don't want to turn this into a political discussion---everyone here seems so nice and reasonable.  I would hate to have my opinion changed becasue of political matters. Let me just say that in a Republic you get the government you deserve.