1982 Mercedes Benz 380SL

[Angelfish]

 

 

Looked at one this morning.  1982, 115,000 miles.  Under $10,000.

 

Good set of service records, cosmetically very nice,  no damage, looks like the soft top was never used and no yellowing in the rear window, hard top like new, clear coat peeling on the hood and trunk, interior very nice, radio missing. 

 

Timing chain replaced at 100,000, cranked over a few times before it started, once warm it started easily, 1 tiny bit of a valve train tick and a little bit of a surge at idle that leveled out but didn't go away entirely, no rust, electrics worked except for antenna and cruise control remains untested, heater fan turned on at least, steering box felt tight.   9 inches of wet snow precluded a test drive, hoping to remedy that in the next few days.  

 

I would drive it regularly, commuting and the occasional road trip.

 

 

 

 

Edited May 1, 2023 by Angelfish (see edit history)

[Steve_Mack_CT]

Ok, a couple things to look for, 82 is pre double row timing chain, understand the chain, guides are one potential weak link in an otherwise bullet proof drivetrain.  So at least be sure guides were changed when the timing chain was, and of course the tensioner.

Second, the subframe is a big weakspot.  That was redesigned for the 560.  MB was actually replacing these under warranty till around 2012 or so.  Ask about that.  Failed subframes can total your car.

Look for rust in floors, rockers, trunk and top well. Steering box, steering coupler and occasionally fuel injection, fuel distributor (it's a fuel delivery component) can give trouble as well.

HP on these is adequate but the 560 has about 70 more, earning it the nickname The German Corvette - very respectable pergormance for the era.  

Your clearcoat comment may mean the car has been repainted, as MB didn't go to clearcoat until 89, in fact certain colors such as our signal red remained single stage for that model year.  

The interior looks pretty good on that one and the fact a 380 usually sells for around 2/3 or less than a 560 or very early 350/450 SL can make it a great deal.   So if you can live with a little less hp, this could be a very fun car to drive.  We can go for hours in ours and feel fine, a real GT vs. Sportscar.  Lots of little details show these are quality cars.  They are growing in popularity and they are well supported.

If you buy any R107 chassis MB, immediately join the Benzworld R107 forum.  The collective knowledge is priceless. 

[Steve_Mack_CT]

Our 560, great long distance GT style car.  We love it. 😊

[61polara]

Steve has given a very good assessment of what to look for.  MB keeps many parts in production for may years, so parts should not be a problem.  Make sure you have a good MB mechanic in the area unless you are doing all your own work.  The antenna problem is usually bad solder joints on the circuit board that can be resoldered.

[Matt Harwood]

Spend more for a 560. Better car in every way, will always be more valuable, same maintenance costs. Higher buy-in but will hold its value better and will be more enjoyable to own along the way. The 380s are attractive just because they're cheap, but they're expensive to own and performance is lethargic at best. The appeal is only due to its price, nothing else. Buy a good 560 and you won't regret it.

[Steve_Mack_CT]

28 minutes ago, 61polara said:

 MB keeps many parts in production for may years, so parts should not be a problem.  Make sure you have a good MB mechanic in the area unless you are doing all your own work.  

Very good advice as well.  The R107 cars are now supported by the MB Classic Center, along with 2 or 3 pretty good vendors.

 

A word on servicing, these are not Model A simple but they are not Ferrari complicated either.  A little research prior to tackling a given task will pay off.  For ours I did about 1/3 of any needed work myself, 1/3 with a good shop with MB experience and 1/3 with a pal who is a pretty well skilled mechanic.  Az Matt said buy the best car you can and it will pay off.  If you can get into a good 560 that's ideal but I have seen some really nice earlier cars as well.  The 280, 300 SLs are 6 cylinders with a sort of cult following.  A pal has one and it's as pretty as a Jag under the hood.

 

Good luck w your search and PM me if I can answer any specifics.

[trimacar]

Just rememberthat parts are very expensive. A number of years ago had a pagoda top, rear brakes went  bad, prices for new parts were sky high.

 

Great road cars,though.  
 

Also, check your insurance needs for a Mercedes, very expensive body parts too!  

[Marty Roth]

2 hours ago, trimacar said:

Just rememberthat parts are very expensive. A number of years ago had a pagoda top, rear brakes went  bad, prices for new parts were sky high.

 

Great road cars,though.  
 

Also, check your insurance needs for a Mercedes, very expensive body parts too!  

Good advice-

Years back we had a 1971(1972?) 250C 2-door hardtop (no "B" pillar 4/5 passenger),

parts were very costly, but comfort was amazing, and it was surprisingly quick with decent handling

[Rusty_OToole]

Try Autohaus in Arizona for OEM parts at a good price. I used to get all my MB parts from them. They have parts for other German cars as well.

[prewarnut]

Steve, Is the trans on the 560 a 4sp? I believe the 380 is still a 3sp. I remember my dad and I test drove the 560 in '87 or so and being a 2 seater the dealer's salesman couldn't come with us. My dad let me drive it back on I-91. We had the needle nearly vertical. I felt like the boss. One of the few times my dad didn't comment on speed. Either model has high build quality and remains quintessential.

[Steve_Mack_CT]

Yeap you got a different trans, and I think 560 was when limited slip started on these bit I could be wrong on that.  What a lot of people miss on these cars is that the body had only some minor changes in the 17 year run, but drivetrain, introduction of ABS, etc. Makes for the different series to be different cars underneath.

I bet that was a fun drive!! 😁😁

[John_S_in_Penna]

12 hours ago, trimacar said:

Just remember that parts are very expensive....

Also, check your insurance needs for a Mercedes, very expensive body parts too!  

Or get a Ford Granada instead of the Mercedes.

Remember the ads said you couldn't tell them apart---

 

 

[Steve_Mack_CT]

24 minutes ago, John_S_in_Penna said:

Or get a Ford Granada instead of the Mercedes.

Remember the ads said you couldn't tell them apart---

 

 

Not to go too far off topic but the Seville IMO was worthy of the Cadillac name.  Not as sure about the Grenada based Verseilles (sp?). 🤔🤔😁

[58L-Y8]

For comparison, these turn up on Craigslist just now:

1973 Mercedes 450 SL coupe - cars & trucks - by owner - vehicle... (craigslist.org)

78 Mercedes-Benz 450SL Convertible R107 - 550 500 560 380 350 SL -... (craigslist.org)

1978 Mercedes 280SL Convertible - cars & trucks - by owner - vehicle... (craigslist.org)

[60FlatTop]

17 hours ago, Matt Harwood said:

are attractive just because they're cheap

Remember those old embroidered samplers Grandma used to make on cold winter nights. That would make a good quote.

 

There is a lot of that going around in the hobby. It takes about a week to disassemble the car "for restoration" to solve the problems. The worn out hardware is quickly cleaned and painted. The body is then used as a flat surface to store boxes of Christmas ornaments in the garage.

[Robert G. Smits]

As a long term owner of two 380's  my experience is that MB is rapidly losing interest in supporting these.  As parts are exhausted they are not being picked up by the aftermarket.  Before buying a 380 SL go on the 107 forum and do a search on 380 verses 560.  As an example MB can no longer supply pistons or connecting rods for the 380.  Within the next year both of mine are going on BaT as No Reserve auctions.  On the positive side they are wonderful road cars and my wife and I never considered them under powered.  One of my cars has over 250K and runs great and doesn't use oil.  Average transmission life is 120-150 K.  If your 82 still has the single timing chain most  people on the 107 forum recommend changing every 20-30K miles or 10years.  The guides deteriorate with age regardless of the miles and a broken guide does 7-9 K damage to your wallet.   Remember that a cheap Mercedes is the most expensive.  If you do not have deep pockets walk away form this.  

[Rivguy]

I wanted one of these for years. Good advice on checking for rust. Be sure that everything works as it should, if not deduct all that from the price. A non functioning a/c will be a big expense, that surging at idle reminds me of my FIL's old 450 SEL, but it didn't seem to be a big problem.  Good advice on finding a good indie mechanic, beforehand, as I learned that many mechanics don't want to mess with old European cars. At all! One of the reasons that I sold my Jags. I did a lot of work on them, but after the transmission replacement on the XJS, I was kind of burned out. The ABS system was a known problem and there weren't many shops that really knew how to fix it. My XJS and my XJ6 were both going to need front end rebuilds and I couldn't find a competent, reasonably priced mechanic to do the job. I kept putting it off until I became disgusted and sold the cars. 

I always thought that these would become the new two seat Thunderbirds, but they never caught on like that. Go in with your eyes open, or just buy a much newer model. Good luck.

[60FlatTop]

The best advice I ever got, and I am usually quite independent and impulsive, is to select the car you really want and join the club that supports them.

 

Use all the resources of the club and local members to buy the best possible car you can. Preferably a member's car.

 

Then you can avoid showing up at you first meet in that hidden barn find to hear the guys at the gate say "Oh, you bought THAT car."

Edited March 28, 2023 by 60FlatTop (see edit history)

[Steve_Mack_CT]

@Rivguy, oh come on, the AC isn't a big deal... 😁😁

 

Forgot that one, did whole system when evaporator failed, just shy of  5 grand, plus tipping the 110 lb. Wiry tech who did the work every time I checked on it, a very good investment.  I think I gave him $60 over three stops, he was meticulous...  That also included the compressor, blah blah...

 

A lot of folks just live without the AC, I know a couple who did the job themselves also.  

[TAKerry]

I had my ml320 in the shop and they were getting ready to work on the ac for an S class. Guy told me everything runs through the floor and the interior needs to come out. Said it was at least a 15k job! I decided then my next car was going to be a Ford.

[John Bloom]

9 minutes ago, Steve_Mack_CT said:

@Rivguy, oh come on, the AC isn't a big deal... 😁😁

 

Forgot that one, did whole system when evaporator failed, just shy of  5 grand, plus tipping the 110 lb. Wiry tech who did the work every time I checked on it, a very good investment.  I think I gave him $60 over three stops, he was meticulous...  That also included the compressor, blah blah...

 

A lot of folks just live without the AC, I know a couple who did the job themselves also.  

Yikes, that could cure me of my affection for them.  

[Steve_Mack_CT]

John, just think of the wow factor when a blast of ice cold (ok, cool) air from the AC blows out of the tiny perforations in the door panel.  AC gets piped into the doors to cool you off.  A silly gadget like feature but fun to show people! 😁😁

Edited March 28, 2023 by Steve_Mack_CT
Fat fingers (see edit history)

[TAKerry]

Dont get me wrong, I love my benz (ML320). Very good running vehicle motor wise. Well built. The fly in the ointment is the computer that crapped out! I still hold out that there may be help for it. Its closing in on AACA status so who knows what the future of it will be. Its way to nice to scrap at this point. I had a '57 190 SL and thought it was a neat little car. Boy would I like to have that one back!!! I really like the pagoda top cars 230 and 280 I think. I remember when they were affordable, not so much anymore. I would like to get my hands on a late model 560 though.

[Robert G. Smits]

I forgot to mention your comment on surging at idle.  That sounds like the "idle air control valve" which is also no longer available from MB or the aftermarket.  Your only hope is a "Pick and Pull".  Starting to understand why I am dumping mine.

[prewarnut]

Steve, You did do the heater core while you were in there right? 😁 Ohh nevermind...

[Rivguy]

I hope that Angelfish doesn't feel that everyone is dumping on him. It's just that the best time to evaluate and consider a purchase is before you've paid the money. Things that don't seem that important like the a/c or a power window don't seem to be a big deal, until you've paid your money and find that a lot of repairs will be much more expensive than you ever thought. You can do a lot of repairs yourself, and I recommend going on one of the MB forums and get the lay of the land. I actually did a lot of work on my three Jags, but eventually it was too much for me. 

[60FlatTop]

12 minutes ago, Rivguy said:

I actually did a lot of work on my three Jags, but eventually it was too much for me. 

I figured it out a long time ago. One wife and lots of easy to maintain cars. The Jaguars and the BMW were fun but short term. They pulled resources from the undemanding Buicks.

 

My preference is still the impulse buy. Those have been my keepers. The analytically purchased cars have all gone on to new owners. I have been a member of the Cadillac/LaSalle Club since the 1990's with all the resources of the club available to me. In January I bought one with a Northstar engine in it. In the 3 days it took me to buy it I didn't ask the opinion of anyone. We'll see how that works out. (It has the LH2 series engine. That might stand for "Last Hope".)

[Robert G. Smits]

3 hours ago, 60FlatTop said:

One wife and lots of easy to maintain cars

Former AACA president Al Edmond had a sigh in his office that I disregarded on both counts.  "The average man can take care of one wife and two Cadillacs".  I am on the second wife(40 years) and 7 Cadillacs.

[Littlestown Mike]

Great advice, here.  The time to ask for and take advice is BEFORE the purchase.

"There is nothing as expensive as a cheap Mercedes".

 

[TAKerry]

13 hours ago, Rivguy said:

I hope that Angelfish doesn't feel that everyone is dumping on him. It's just that the best time to evaluate and consider a purchase is before you've paid the money. Things that don't seem that important like the a/c or a power window don't seem to be a big deal, until you've paid your money and find that a lot of repairs will be much more expensive than you ever thought. You can do a lot of repairs yourself, and I recommend going on one of the MB forums and get the lay of the land. I actually did a lot of work on my three Jags, but eventually it was too much for me. 

Good Point. It can go either way. One can ask for advice and take it to heart and let people that have had them persuade or dissuade or they can simply purchase it regardless  on a whim or out of passion. Either way Anglefish goes, I hope he has success with the purchase and ends up with a car he can enjoy.

[Angelfish]

Well gentlemen, my life has been easy, my marriage has been strong and my future has been secure.  On balance my life has been somewhat sheltered and predictable.   So why not throw all that away for the sake of a 40 year old Mercedes Benz?  I brought it home yesterday. 

 

I drove it a couple days ago, it started and ran well with a little bit of idle surge, +/- 100 rpm.  Got it on the road and it drove and shifted nicely, the brakes were confidant, and it died every time I came to a stop sign.   Put about 15 miles on it, it died and restarted several times.  Brought it back, parked it, the owner just handed the cash back and said he'd work on it and put it up for sale again when the weather improved.  And that was the end of it.  I drove home, announced to the family that we did not own a Mecedes, and I was at peace.

 

Then the phone rang.  It was the seller.  I thought about not answering.  He said he bypassed the fuel pump relay and it was running well, and he'd knock another $1000 off it.  I told him I'd sleep on it.

 

So here I am.  This morning I bought oil, filters, transmission fluid and brake fluid.  The weather is lousy so I'm relegated to sitting in the shop trying to figure out to operate the climate control.  The timing chain has already been replaced, although it was long enough back that the guides are uncertain, the subframe is not cracked, but still requires the gussets, the engine room is clean, the leaks are minimal and only in the places that don't really count anyway, the engine sounds good and the car is overall in very nice condition.   The more time I spend with it the better it looks.  I don't expect the real alcoholic depression to set in until at least May.  

 

A lot of people say they're underpowered, and while it's no BMW M3, I was pleased with the performance for what it is.  The drive home was fun and the car did grow on me.  And it has a very nice V8 rumble.   

 

The radio is missing so PM me if you want to part with one, only has one key and it's well worn so looking for a new one, the clock doesn't work, which might be a sign that I don't want to know how much time I'll have into it, and there's a dead spider hanging in front of the odometer inside the instrument panel.

 

 

Edited March 29, 2023 by Angelfish (see edit history)

[PWN]

19 hours ago, Robert G. Smits said:

I forgot to mention your comment on surging at idle.  That sounds like the "idle air control valve" which is also no longer available from MB or the aftermarket.  Your only hope is a "Pick and Pull".  Starting to understand why I am dumping mine.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/354200306806?_trkparms=amclksrc%3DITM%26aid%3D1110006%26algo%3DHOMESPLICE.SIM%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20200818143230%26meid%3D12055ac11f0f4fa3a25aca78fb0314e2%26pid%3D101224%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D5%26sd%3D285198235701%26itm%3D354200306806%26pmt%3D1%26noa%3D1%26pg%3D2047675%26algv%3DDefaultOrganicWeb&_trksid=p2047675.c101224.m-1

[Steve_Mack_CT]

Ok Angel.  Rainy day tasks for you should now include registering on the Benzworld & Peach parts forums.  Best technical resources going for these.  I did manage to score factory manuals for my car after years of searching but they are not real common and they are expensive.

 

Fb has at least a dozen groups for R107s but 90% of that is beauty shots.

 

A quick look at top of the chain guides through the oil filler will tell a lot.  White is good.  Yellow, brown is bad.  Cam covers are easy enough to pop if you want a better look.

 

Idle valve can often be cleaned up and high idle, or up/down is often addressed pretty quickly.

 

Once you fix fuel pump issue I suggest you run injector cleaner through the next few fills and change the oil again after a few hundred miles.

 

May, when the top is down is when you will be real happy. 😊

 

Join MBCA, if you buy a couple things from the MB classic center the 15% discount will cover MBCA dues.  If you get a good local region that is free with the national $60 dues.

 

Someone already mentioned Autohaus AZ, I would second that.  

 

Enjoy it!

[Angelfish]

12 minutes ago, Steve_Mack_CT said:

Ok Angel.  Rainy day tasks for you should now include registering on the Benzworld & Peach parts forums.  Best technical resources going for these.  I did manage to score factory manuals for my car after years of searching but they are not real common and they are expensive...

Thank you for all the good advice, it's possible I will call on you for more in the future.  I'm happy so far.  My wife is looking at an SLK for herself, we may end up with a pair of them.

[Soupiov]

I bought one for my wife a few years ago and we both loved it.  I did the timing belt and guides at  90,000 miles so I figured I was good for another 90,000 miles. I loved that car and enjoyed driving it.  Sadly, I had to sell it because my wife could never figure out how to put the top up and was uncomfortable driving it with the top up because of the rather poor visibility.  One episode with her driving it with the top down and a sudden unexpected  downpour of the type that are common here in Florida and much to my dismay the wife said get rid of it!  It was her car so I had no choice.  On positive note however I replaced it with  another Model T for myself!  Happy motoring!

[Rusty_OToole]

On 3/28/2023 at 9:12 AM, TAKerry said:

I had my ml320 in the shop and they were getting ready to work on the ac for an S class. Guy told me everything runs through the floor and the interior needs to come out. Said it was at least a 15k job! I decided then my next car was going to be a Ford.

As long as it's not a Lincoln.

 

Mercedes Benz: Ve vill make zee most complicated, hard to fix and expensive to repair car in ze vorld.

 

Lincoln: Hold my beer

[Robert G. Smits]

This is a chain guide from a 53K MB 380 that set in CC storage for 14 years. Fortunately I did not attempt to start the car before checking the chain which obviously cracked in storage. It fragmented during removal. Catastrophe avoided which proves it is better to be lucky than smart.  As mentioned previously note the color. 

[Steve_Mack_CT]

36 minutes ago, Robert G. Smits said:

This is a chain guide from a 53K MB 380 that set in CC storage for 14 years. Fortunately I did not attempt to start the car before checking the chain which obviously cracked in storage. It fragmented during removal. Catastrophe avoided which proves it is better to be lucky than smart.  As mentioned previously note the color. 

I fished the remnants of mine out of the driver's side engine bank, and have it in a baggie to show/scare non believer new owners straight.

We had the car one season before I learned about this weakness. When my pal Rick and I checked the guides I started it one more time and drove right to the shop.  Start up is where the risk is on these... Amazingly no damage done, Jesus kissed the fool as they say.

There was a guy looking into doing these in metal as they are on the cast irin block earlier cars, but I am not sure where that stands.

[Robert G. Smits]

I also remember the discussion about metal guide’s about 15 years ago. I think the guy was in the Omaha Nebraska area. Obviously nothing came of it. 

[SC38dls]

As a MB owner this thread has been very informative and interesting. Would my 2011 350E 4matic with a six cylinder engine and 120+ thousand miles on it also have these timing chain guides that fail? I know it has a double chain but no idea about the guides. If no one can answer does anyone know of a good MB forum for a 2011 car? I ask as this one is so darn good I don’t want to get on with a bunch of tractor mechanics as our master wizard Ed calls them. Thanks

dave s 

Edited March 30, 2023 by SC38dls (see edit history)