Graham Man Posted February 7, 2022 Share Posted February 7, 2022 (edited) Any idea how many ALCO cars still exist? They built cars from 1905 to 1913 1913 ALCO https://www.hagerty.com/media/car-profiles/road-jet/#:~:text=The%20ALCO%20was%20the%20Bugatti,to%20build%20a%20single%20car. Early 1900s Road Jet: One of the most expensive cars available in the U.S., costing between $5,500-$9,000 The American Locomotive Company, later known as ALCO, was founded in 1901 and went on to become the second largest steam locomotive manufacturer in the United States, producing more than 75,000 units. Having secured a license from the French automobile manufacturer Marius Berliet of Lyons, who built his first car in 1894, ALCO diversified its business interests and moved into automobile manufacturing in 1906. The early cars, like most competitor cars, were chain driven but this changed in 1908 when they switched to shaft drive. The ALCO was the Bugatti Veyron of the era; it was one of the most expensive cars available in the U.S., with a sticker price between $5,500 and $9,000. The company claimed that it took one year and seven months to build a single car. I think that must have been directed at just some of the 54 different variations that they built, which included commercial vehicles and taxis, because the numbers don’t add up considering ALCO Produced 5,000 vehicles in their short seven-year history. Despite the company having its best ever financial year in 1913, with earnings of $34 million, it still lost $460 on every vehicle built. Not surprisingly, the ALCO Board decided to derail the automobile division, resulting in 1,200 job losses. The board felt that their future was in trains. The ALCO losses were minor compared to the Bugatti losses; the Economist estimates that the Volkswagen Group has lost $6.2 million on every Veyron built (390 to date). The world’s fastest supercar, has an average retail price of $2.2 million. It is hard to believe that having built 5,000 vehicles, just 12 ALCO examples are known to exist today. The photographed example is being offered for sale at the Amelia Island Gooding & Co auction on March 7 and it is estimated it will fetch between $300,000 and $400,000. The auctioneer’s gavel will indicate if the interest in the once imposing, most powerful and most famous ALCO, known as the “Black Beast” and the winner of the 1909 and 1910 Vanderbilt Cup, will find a home in a serious collection or museum. (Visit http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FN1lCvkMwj0#t=76 to see a video of Emerson Fittipaldi driving the Black Beast at the 100th anniversary of the Indy 500). Edited February 8, 2022 by Graham Man more information (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8E45E Posted February 8, 2022 Share Posted February 8, 2022 Some of their trucks still exist. Craig 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wayne sheldon Posted February 8, 2022 Share Posted February 8, 2022 I have seen three of them up close. The first one was a bit over fifty years ago. My dad and I had gone to look at the cars at an AACA Western meet held that year in Los Gatos California. Late in the day, at least half of the cars had already left, and we were still wandering around looking at the stragglers. When this huge touring car comes roaring up and parks right next to where we were standing! The fellow shuts the engine off, and dashes out saying "I forgot to pick up something from (a friend)! I hope he is still here!" Dad and I looked over the car until he returned saying " He was, I got it!". He then took his time, stood around and chatted with us for a good twenty minutes, telling us about the car. I never did know who the fellow was. However, for the rest of his life, my dad would say that Alco was his favorite horseless carriage of all time. The other two were also a long time ago. I am not certain, but I think both were owned by William Harrah. One I saw in his collection, the other at a show that his people attended with a few of his cars. Neither of those as static display was quite as impressive as the one roaring up to where we were standing. Plus watching the fellow crank start it and drive away! Most impressive. Pardon the slight foray down memory lane. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted February 8, 2022 Share Posted February 8, 2022 (edited) As far as cars go, for some reason I think the number is less than ten. One was recently discovered in the southwest in the last ten years or so locked away and forgotten.......... what ever the number, it’s very low. They are great driving cars. Just looked it up, 12 known cars currently. Below is a 1908 that belonged to my friend who recently sold it. Edited February 8, 2022 by edinmass (see edit history) 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1912Staver Posted February 8, 2022 Share Posted February 8, 2022 (edited) It's strange how some makes , Simplex for example, have survived in pretty decent numbers . 60 + if I am not mistaken. And yet others have only survived in much smaller numbers. Lozier , the big model poppet valve Stearns, Palmer Singer, Alco, Chadwick and several others in the true top quality class. I doubt any of them had a very large yearly production. But people obviously started saving Simplex's way back and for some reason not so much several other makes that on the surface at least were just as worthy. Edited February 8, 2022 by 1912Staver (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1937hd45 Posted February 8, 2022 Share Posted February 8, 2022 If the one in the first photo is now in the Nethercutt collection, it was found in a auto junk yard here in Ridgefield by Henry Austin Clark in the early 1950's. If the plate scanning goes well at AACA Headquarters I may find out who the original owner was. The ALCO Vanderbilt Cup winner lived here in Ridgefield as well. Bob P.S If you are looking for ALCO trucks I think there are two of them left. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Man Posted February 8, 2022 Author Share Posted February 8, 2022 The company claimed that it took one year and seven months to build a single car. I think that must have been directed at just some of the 54 different variations that they built, which included commercial vehicles and taxis, because the numbers don’t add up considering ALCO Produced 5,000 vehicles in their short seven-year history. My guess is this was highly exaggerated... just doing the math 1.7 years to build.....7 years production...they would have had to been building about 1000 cars at the same time? Still from some number around 1000? to 12 for that expensive of a car seems strange? $5500 is about $160K today Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John348 Posted February 8, 2022 Share Posted February 8, 2022 1 hour ago, 1937hd45 said: The ALCO Vanderbilt Cup winner lived here in Ridgefield as well. Bob That 1909 ALCO Vanderbilt Cup Racer is now owned by a collector on Long Island, He has out and about at various events from time to time, it is LOUD! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
31plymouth Posted February 8, 2022 Share Posted February 8, 2022 Was one driven to the Ridgefield Ct showing the 70's? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Man Posted February 8, 2022 Author Share Posted February 8, 2022 1909 ALCO "The Black Beast" https://www.hemmings.com/stories/article/the-black-beast-1909-alco 2021 Race of Gentlemen - Alco Black Beast 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hidden_hunter Posted February 8, 2022 Share Posted February 8, 2022 Does alco have a negative meaning in the US as well? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1937hd45 Posted February 8, 2022 Share Posted February 8, 2022 28 minutes ago, 31plymouth said: Was one driven to the Ridgefield Ct showing the 70's? Yes, in 1972 the ALCO was a fairly fresh restoration, Old 16 was driven to the Ridgefield Meet in 1967 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
f.f.jones Posted February 8, 2022 Share Posted February 8, 2022 This 1912 Alco was displayed at Harrah's in the 60's and now resides at the Nethercutt in California, model 9-60, 6 cylinder, 70 hp, 7 passenger touring. There is a 1913 limousine at the Crawford Museum in Cleveland. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_S_in_Penna Posted February 8, 2022 Share Posted February 8, 2022 Did Automobile Quarterly have any article on the Alco car? If so, it would be interesting to look up. It should have been very well done, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Man Posted February 8, 2022 Author Share Posted February 8, 2022 ALCO #12... 1912 4 Cylinder Touring https://www.vanderbiltcupraces.com/blog/article/in_search_of_alcos_12_1912_alco_4-cylinder_touring_car Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Man Posted February 8, 2022 Author Share Posted February 8, 2022 ALCO 40HP Runabout Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Man Posted February 8, 2022 Author Share Posted February 8, 2022 1912 ALCO 40HP Touring Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Man Posted February 8, 2022 Author Share Posted February 8, 2022 Add one Fire Car?... 1912 ALCO 90HP https://www.huismanauction.com/auction/120/item/1910-1912-alco-90hp-6-cyl-restoration-project-11944/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Man Posted February 8, 2022 Author Share Posted February 8, 2022 ALCO #11 1912 Touring https://www.vanderbiltcupraces.com/blog/article/in_search_of_alcos_11_the_1912_alco_touring_car_stored_in_rehoboth_massachu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Man Posted February 8, 2022 Author Share Posted February 8, 2022 (edited) 1912 ALCO 60HP in France? Might be in France? Edited February 8, 2022 by Graham Man (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Man Posted February 8, 2022 Author Share Posted February 8, 2022 #8 1911 40HP ALCO https://www.vanderbiltcupraces.com/blog/article/in_search_of_the_alco_12_a_1911_alco_tonneau_touring_car Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMoneyPit Posted February 8, 2022 Share Posted February 8, 2022 Big impressive cars, at least the couple I’ve seen in person. I could be mistaken, but didn’t the Lars-Anderson museum have one on display in the 70’s? It could have been the Vanderbilt car at a show nearby but my memory is failing me there… It’s a radiator emblem I’ve dreamed of getting since about that time, and the most expensive lapel pin in my collection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
31plymouth Posted February 8, 2022 Share Posted February 8, 2022 11 hours ago, 1937hd45 said: Yes, in 1972 the ALCO was a fairly fresh restoration, Old 16 was driven to the Ridgefield Meet in 1967 If my memory is correct. I heard that Alco from about a 1/4 mile away as it was coming onto the field 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Shaw Posted February 8, 2022 Share Posted February 8, 2022 16 hours ago, Graham Man said: Any idea how many ALCO cars still exist? They built cars from 1905 to 1913 Six are listed in the current HCCA roster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Man Posted February 8, 2022 Author Share Posted February 8, 2022 From the limited reading I have done it sounds like they made more in the line of under 500 cars and it sounds like a good portion were gifts for locomotive purchases/contracts. So my guess for cars actually sold would be somewhere around maybe 250? If the cars were gifted cars, most likely they would not get the care of purchased cars, might explain the low survival rate of such an expensive car? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walt G Posted February 8, 2022 Share Posted February 8, 2022 (edited) Low survival rate of luxury carts have several reasons: lack of manufacture to to high cost of purchase, limited time of manufacture given the era, and any that did survive up into the late 1930s saw tremendous scrap value for the bronze, brass ( radiators) , and alloy metals they were made of. Prime example of trying to save the cars is Barney Pollard, who hung them vertically and then erected sheet metal walls around them so the powers that be wouldn't try to take them for the war effort. Austin Clark tried to save cars too but not as vigorously , and mostly immediately after WWII ( when he opened a museum in 1948) . Austin was the one to preserve the photographic and published history of the motor car as well more so then many people. The Mack truck archives survive because of him ( 47 steel filing cabinets ( 4 drawers each) of glass plate negatives! also the bound issues of Der Motor Wagon that were kept by Kaiser Wilhelm in the WWI era and had the Kaiser's book plate in them . Walt Edited February 8, 2022 by Walt G (see edit history) 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Man Posted February 8, 2022 Author Share Posted February 8, 2022 There was a gentleman in MN that was trying to save about 60 steam engines from the WW2 scrap drives, he took out a loan on the steam engines. When the scrap drive guys showed up he said if "you pay off the loan you can have them", they walked away... ingenious. The estate auction including the steam engines was in 2004 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunsmoke Posted February 8, 2022 Share Posted February 8, 2022 (edited) John S in Penna asked "Did Automobile Quarterly have any article on ALCO..." Yes, Beverly Rae Kimes wrote a fine article devoted to the make, "The Mighty Alco, a History" in AQ Vol XI-2 published 2nd Quarter of 1973, pages 206-221. Up to AQ's and Kimes' normal high standards, many fine period photos of early racing (Vanderbilt Cup) with driver Harry Fortune Grant. He won the 1910 VC race at an average speed of 65.18MPH, fasted time ever achieved in the race up to that time. Here is a photo from that article. Hard to imagine driving one of these beasts about 300 miles at that average speed! Edited February 8, 2022 by Gunsmoke (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walt G Posted February 9, 2022 Share Posted February 9, 2022 My good friend Howard Kroplick who owns the 1909 black race car now that is shown here ( which shows Roslyn Harbor in the back ground on the north shore of long island) also has an outstanding website titled the Vanderbilt Cup Races . Which covers much of the motor car history on long island and also favors the Tucker and Mustangs that Howard likes and owns. I mentioned this thread to him and his reply was : Thanks for forwarding! Here is my link to find Alcos: https://www.vanderbiltcupraces.com/blog/tag/in+search+of+alcos Take a look, great information and pictures here as well. I try to contribute to his website when I can as I have in the past. Some outstanding history to be found there, and 100% accurate. Walt 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Man Posted February 9, 2022 Author Share Posted February 9, 2022 2X on the Vanderbilt cup site https://www.vanderbiltcupraces.com/blog/tag/in+search+of+alcos 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsfarms Posted February 9, 2022 Share Posted February 9, 2022 I joined Howard's Vanderbilt Cup website and it is great. I encourage anyone interested in early history, racing and race cars, sign up for the weekly updates and new material on the Vanderbilt Cup races. I was also encouraged to buy a book by the late Peter Helck called "The Checkered Flag". This is a great book and will provide me many good nights of reading and learning about many early races, racers and cars as well as the men behind them. Al 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunsmoke Posted February 9, 2022 Share Posted February 9, 2022 The aforementioned AQ article by BRK is fronted with a wonderful 2 page illustration by Peter Helck of the Black Beast (aka Bete Noire) in racing action. what an artistic talent! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nzcarnerd Posted February 9, 2022 Share Posted February 9, 2022 On 2/8/2022 at 9:31 PM, Graham Man said: ALCO #11 1912 Touring https://www.vanderbiltcupraces.com/blog/article/in_search_of_alcos_11_the_1912_alco_touring_car_stored_in_rehoboth_massachu Slightly off the subject but what is the car with the lime green(!!!) chassis at left? I notice an interesting spring setup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LI_BENTLEY Posted February 9, 2022 Share Posted February 9, 2022 Looks like a 1906 Winton. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George K Posted February 17, 2022 Share Posted February 17, 2022 Wish this ALCO survived. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8E45E Posted February 17, 2022 Share Posted February 17, 2022 On 2/8/2022 at 10:03 AM, Walt G said: The Mack truck archives survive because of him ( 47 steel filing cabinets ( 4 drawers each) of glass plate negatives! He had to be commended for that! Those filing cabinets would have weighed between two to five hundred pounds each, with GLASS plate negatives!! Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Man Posted February 17, 2022 Author Share Posted February 17, 2022 (edited) 1909 Vanderbilt Cup Car, guessing the horn and speedometer were added at some point. https://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/14/automobiles/mechanical-wonder-from-an-age-gone-by.html Hyde Park Drag Race Edited February 17, 2022 by Graham Man (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walt G Posted February 17, 2022 Share Posted February 17, 2022 That's my good buddy Howard Kroplick at his Waterfront garage in Roslyn, NY. on long island. As mentioned here his Vanderbiltcupraces.com web site is an outstanding place for long island related information on old cars . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George K Posted February 17, 2022 Share Posted February 17, 2022 1 hour ago, Graham Man said: 1909 Vanderbilt Cup Car, guessing the horn and speedometer were added at some point. https://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/14/automobiles/mechanical-wonder-from-an-age-gone-by.html Hyde Park Drag Race Not the same car. Joel Finn assembled from parts. Alco race cars are just stock cars sans huge bodies. This car has a Alco truck engine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George K Posted February 17, 2022 Share Posted February 17, 2022 If you have interest in Alco race history I suggest you google this. Written by Harry Grant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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