1937hd45 Posted August 19, 2021 Share Posted August 19, 2021 (edited) What is sitting on a 2021 dealership floor that would be the equal in style & value to this L29 Cord? Bob Edited August 21, 2021 by 1937hd45 (see edit history) 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted August 19, 2021 Author Share Posted August 19, 2021 6 hours ago, 1937hd45 said: Walt, Is this the old Westchester Chrysler or another? Think there is a different set of fenders on the two. Bob Bob, this is Mark Smith's car. He's owned it for 20 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted August 19, 2021 Author Share Posted August 19, 2021 6 hours ago, 1937hd45 said: What is sitting on a 2021 dealership floor that would be the equal in value to this L29 Cord? Bob It is funny you should mention that one because Ed and I were both remarking how nice it was and the color was great. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
car crazy Posted August 19, 2021 Share Posted August 19, 2021 (edited) 7 hours ago, 1937hd45 said: Liked this pillarless four door Bugatti Type 57 in the Gooding auction. Need to check and see what it sold for. Bob Sold for $179,200 with vig...certainly looks like a car that could tell a story or two... Edited August 19, 2021 by car crazy (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TAKerry Posted August 19, 2021 Share Posted August 19, 2021 8 hours ago, 1937hd45 said: What is sitting on a 2021 dealership floor that would be the equal in value to this L29 Cord? Bob F-350! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
West Peterson Posted August 19, 2021 Share Posted August 19, 2021 8 hours ago, 1937hd45 said: Walt, Is this the old Westchester Chrysler or another? Think there is a different set of fenders on the two. Bob Yes, as Al said, Mark Smith's car. He changed the fenders. When he bought it, the front fenders were "bobbed," and it had no running boards. He also changed the color of the wheels from red to black.. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted August 19, 2021 Share Posted August 19, 2021 (edited) Any photos of the red wheels and before the fender change? Is there a photo of the car when "new"? Edited August 19, 2021 by edinmass (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walt G Posted August 19, 2021 Share Posted August 19, 2021 That car I think for years was in the Syracuse ,NY area as well with a guy that belonged to CCCA , that was in the bob fenders era. Decades ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
West Peterson Posted August 19, 2021 Share Posted August 19, 2021 9 minutes ago, edinmass said: Any photos of the red wheels and before the fender change? Is there a photo of the car when "new"? I did a feature story on the car for Cars & Parts magazine several years ago. November 2000 issue. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
West Peterson Posted August 19, 2021 Share Posted August 19, 2021 As far as its true history is concerned, there seems to be different thoughts. When I did the story, it was said that Durham did the modifications to the stock roadster body. Mark Smith claims the car was a prototype, done by LeBaron. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted August 19, 2021 Share Posted August 19, 2021 41 minutes ago, West Peterson said: I did a feature story on the car for Cars & Parts magazine several years ago. November 2000 issue. Thanks for the background information West, but the year 2000 isn’t several years ago........for old guys like me.......it’s two decades! 😎 Time sure goes by fast.............. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted August 19, 2021 Author Share Posted August 19, 2021 4 hours ago, car crazy said: Sold for $179,200 with vig...certainly looks like a car that could tell a story or two... It was rough. There was a time when I would lust after something like this. That has gotten beaten out of me. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TTR Posted August 19, 2021 Share Posted August 19, 2021 46 minutes ago, West Peterson said: As far as its true history is concerned, there seems to be different thoughts. When I did the story, it was said that Durham did the modifications to the stock roadster body. Mark Smith claims the car was a prototype, done by LeBaron. Well, with all due respect, but perhaps this can serve as yet another good example why we shouldn’t necessarily believe or take granted what we hear, read or see, even if it’s just stories or media coverage related to our hobbies or personal interests (including Derham/Durham mishap). 😉 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TTR Posted August 19, 2021 Share Posted August 19, 2021 (edited) This was one of my favorite (shape/size/styling contrast) observations of the week. And no, the facial image in the window of the taller car is not someone behind or inside it, but rather a reflection of my friend standing next to me when I took the shot (and didn’t realize it until later 😳) Edited August 19, 2021 by TTR (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted August 19, 2021 Author Share Posted August 19, 2021 (edited) Regarding Mark's Imperial. There is a picture of it from the late 30s with that basic configuration, so whatever the history it was done prior to WWII. Definitely one of my favorites. Just really attractive. You have to admit that he has great taste in cars. Edited August 19, 2021 by alsancle (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted August 19, 2021 Author Share Posted August 19, 2021 7 minutes ago, TTR said: This was one of my favorite (shape/size/styling contrast) observations of the week. I may have a picture of the Duesenberg pulling along the side of this on the hill when it was sputtering. And then right behind us was the Phantom II coming in hot. That impressed me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted August 19, 2021 Share Posted August 19, 2021 (edited) The purple people eater was pushing water and over heating the entire way.......made a mess of J223 following behind.............look close at the photo......you can see steam from the back. Modern trailer queen that can’t drive...........typical PB restoration........pretty but can’t go down the road. The big question? Why restore a modern car? Edited August 19, 2021 by edinmass (see edit history) 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
West Peterson Posted August 19, 2021 Share Posted August 19, 2021 38 minutes ago, alsancle said: Regarding Mark's Imperial. There is a picture of it from the late 30s with that basic configuration, so whatever the history it was done prior to WWII. Definitely one of my favorites. Just really attractive. You have to admit that he has great taste in cars. This is one of the earliest shots I've ever seen of the car, and it was well beyond the 1930s. I think it was 1950s. If an actual photo of the car exists from the 1930s, I'm unaware of it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pilgrim65 Posted August 19, 2021 Share Posted August 19, 2021 Best thread since Walt started ‘ period enthralled! Even enjoyed the arguments 😄 Many thanks to all posters 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wayne sheldon Posted August 19, 2021 Share Posted August 19, 2021 Just me pondering a question on the Chrysler roadster. If there is serious information that the car may have been originally custom built with the bobbed fenders and no running boards? Why would someone change the fenders and add running boards to a more factory era look? Perhaps other information indicated the "custom built" story was in error? Don't get me wrong here. I love the usual fenders and running board treatments of the 1910s well into the 1930s! However, I also really like the occasional fad of bobbed fenders and step plates, usually on sporting and customs. I have seen numerous examples in person. Including a good friend's Biddle, a Chandler sport touring, and a Marmon cabriolet I considered trying to buy about thirty years ago. And I have also seen probably more than a hundred era photos of dozens of marque customs including Daniels, Mercedes, and many European sports cars. As a general rule, I much prefer collector cars to be restored as close to what they were as is reasonable. Sometimes, some cars, exactly how it was when new may not be known? And sometimes for historic or other reasons, a car should be restored back to a specific point of some time after it was actually new. I would suspect that this car, if it was originally ordered with the bobbed fenders? It would likely be recorded somewhere? Just me. Wondering. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1937hd45 Posted August 19, 2021 Share Posted August 19, 2021 4 hours ago, alsancle said: It was rough. There was a time when I would lust after something like this. That has gotten beaten out of me. Missing the radiator and shell along with whatever the French protesters could quickly strip when it was in the Schlump collection, sill the cheapest entry level Bugatti that I know of. The Lottery tickets I bought out there just had the wrong numbers pulled. Bob 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
West Peterson Posted August 19, 2021 Share Posted August 19, 2021 39 minutes ago, wayne sheldon said: Just me pondering a question on the Chrysler roadster. If there is serious information that the car may have been originally custom built with the bobbed fenders and no running boards? Why would someone change the fenders and add running boards to a more factory era look? Perhaps other information indicated the "custom built" story was in error? Just me. Wondering. The bobbed fenders on the Chrysler roadster were probably done sometime in the early 1950s. Mark put them back to the way it would have been in the 1930s. As to when in the 1930s the rest of the customization was done, and by whom, is not fully understood or known by this historian. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wayne sheldon Posted August 19, 2021 Share Posted August 19, 2021 Thank you West! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1937hd45 Posted August 19, 2021 Share Posted August 19, 2021 (edited) Did anyone ever modify doors back in the day to allow easy entry/exit? Sure has a great look! Edited August 19, 2021 by 1937hd45 (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted August 19, 2021 Share Posted August 19, 2021 (edited) 2 hours ago, West Peterson said: The bobbed fenders on the Chrysler roadster were probably done sometime in the early 1950s. Mark put them back to the way it would have been in the 1930s. As to when in the 1930s the rest of the customization was done, and by whom, is not fully understood or known by this historian. 🤔 Nuff said. Edited August 19, 2021 by edinmass (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted August 20, 2021 Author Share Posted August 20, 2021 I'm starting to get my videos uploaded to youtube. Here is the Dawn Patrol line coming out of the trailer lot. You see Ed motor by. 3 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8E45E Posted August 20, 2021 Share Posted August 20, 2021 10 hours ago, West Peterson said: As far as its true history is concerned, there seems to be different thoughts. When I did the story, it was said that Durham did the modifications to the stock roadster body. Mark Smith claims the car was a prototype, done by LeBaron. You made me consult my LIBRARY... And I do see this particular car has a JAGUAR hood ornament! 🙃 Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walt G Posted August 20, 2021 Share Posted August 20, 2021 Great video of the cars pulling in A.J. thank you. one thing I observed - all of the more modern cars , especially the "boy racer" types had mushroom clouds of exhaust smoke coming out the tail pipes, just about all of the older ( ie pre WWII) machines had none that was noticeable. Someone care to comment on that? This is not a complaint, nor criticism, just an incredible difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted August 20, 2021 Author Share Posted August 20, 2021 22 minutes ago, Walt G said: Great video of the cars pulling in A.J. thank you. one thing I observed - all of the more modern cars , especially the "boy racer" types had mushroom clouds of exhaust smoke coming out the tail pipes, just about all of the older ( ie pre WWII) machines had none that was noticeable. Someone care to comment on that? This is not a complaint, nor criticism, just an incredible difference. the one red coupe, Cistilia?, was really smoking and he was winding it way up. Sounded like a chainsaw motor. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George K Posted August 20, 2021 Share Posted August 20, 2021 On 8/17/2021 at 1:02 PM, edinmass said: In response to Walt, I get exactly where he is coming from. Pomp and Circumstance is something I can easily do without. The cost is insane. But.....it’s the only place on the planet where so much good stuff can be seen in such a small area. I’ll go out on a limb and say our class was the most significant assemblage of motor cars ever assembled. My top two cars in the world were there, and parked within fifty feet of our car. A friend from high school said to me.........Makes a Duesenberg look like a Ford Mustang. Pebble is the place where you bring a fantastic world class car, and find three better cars parked next to you that you didn’t even know existed. I was SHOCKED at how far civilization has declined driving around California.......absolutely shocked, and I go there regularly. When homeless people come into a place that’s 1700 a night and use the hallways as a toilet for shock effect, and the police, city, and local governments refuse to deal with it............all I can say is I am DONE with ever going there again unless it’s work related. I could go on for pages. Honestly.......it’s a cesspool, if your being polite. Shxx holx is the appropriate nomenclature. I haven’t been to PB for several years. Seems to me that all the real car guys feel that the show has devolved into a corporate and cosmetic surgery advertising opportunity. Personally felt that car shows at a certain level are nothing but a “dixx swinging contest”. I agree with Ed about California. But I venture to say the whole left coast should be “out of bounds “. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
West Peterson Posted August 20, 2021 Share Posted August 20, 2021 "Cosmetic surgery advertising opportunity" I agree, except that hardly a one looks good. In my opinion, it only emphasizes reasons NOT to get surgery (for vane reasons, anyway). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walt G Posted August 20, 2021 Share Posted August 20, 2021 27 minutes ago, alsancle said: the one red coupe, Cistilia?, was really smoking and he was winding it way up. Sounded like a chainsaw motor. Guess the ego and self viewed level of importance of the driver needed to be revved up so that traveled to the gas pedal at his command. Sad commentary but I guess everyone has their own way of getting to be noticed . Fortunately most all of the friends I have always got the greatest satisfaction out of sharing the cars, information, period matter that we have gathered with other people to let them too , have the indescribable pleasure of making the history come alive for us. Share the joy of the object, be it three dimensional or two. Treasure is not in gold, it is in knowledge. 6 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted August 20, 2021 Author Share Posted August 20, 2021 Here is a video of us driving the Model J through the truck lot. 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted August 20, 2021 Author Share Posted August 20, 2021 Here we are driving through downtown Monterey. 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Harper Posted August 21, 2021 Share Posted August 21, 2021 42 minutes ago, alsancle said: Here we are driving through downtown Monterey. Living a sheltered life in the northern extremities of Maine, I have never heard a Duesenberg J running. Wonderful sound, wonderful car. Thank you for sharing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerryB Posted August 21, 2021 Share Posted August 21, 2021 On the other side of the hobby, my son photographed this more affordable car in the Monterey area. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike6024 Posted August 21, 2021 Share Posted August 21, 2021 13 hours ago, Walt G said: modern cars ,... had mushroom clouds of exhaust smoke coming out the tail pipes, .... Someone care to comment on that? Maybe that is really condensate? I know when I start my "modern" vehicle in the cold morning air to go to work there is like steam coming out. The morning air is cold and damp and sometimes foggy. And the exhaust output is very different looking than if it were the hot dry afternoon air. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ericmac Posted August 21, 2021 Share Posted August 21, 2021 2 hours ago, TerryB said: On the other side of the hobby, my son photographed this more affordable car in the Monterey area. Man, that looks a lot like my uncle's car. It was in that part of the state about 20-25 years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted August 21, 2021 Author Share Posted August 21, 2021 11 hours ago, Terry Harper said: Living a sheltered life in the northern extremities of Maine, I have never heard a Duesenberg J running. Wonderful sound, wonderful car. Thank you for sharing! Ed was running the exhaust open. All Duesenbergs have a lever for "Country" or "City". Country runs it out the back pipe but around the muffler. Cars with outside pipes like this one have a third setting "dump" which dumps it out before the muffler. Our friend John was funny because the Pierce he was comparing this to is a go kart in comparison having driven both. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Bloom Posted August 21, 2021 Share Posted August 21, 2021 15 minutes ago, alsancle said: Ed was running the exhaust open. All Duesenbergs have a lever for "Country" or "City". Country runs it out the back pipe but around the muffler. Cars with outside pipes like this one have a third setting "dump" which dumps it out before the muffler. Our friend John was funny because the Pierce he was comparing this to is a go kart in comparison having driven both. I really like that Pierce coupe of yours AJ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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