deaddds Posted January 20, 2021 Share Posted January 20, 2021 This should be interesting. Yet another money grab. Skipping the paypal fees is the carrot. But the kicker is a $20 dispute fee that takes effect. Seeing as how sellers already get the bone in practically every instance, and buyers know this, I suspect a wildwest coming. Let the bloodletting begin! 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fossil Posted January 21, 2021 Share Posted January 21, 2021 Where did you see this at? For some reason I can believe it. Must be time for another skyscraper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 21, 2021 Share Posted January 21, 2021 Time for somebody to start a new auction venue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1937hd45 Posted January 21, 2021 Share Posted January 21, 2021 It's working fine for me. If there is a problem EXPLAIN IT!. Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deaddds Posted January 21, 2021 Author Share Posted January 21, 2021 This last week, when I log into ebay as a seller, there is a pop up that says "getting paid on ebay has changed". You need to update by the 25th to list new stuff. Click on that and it has the new rules laid out. There will now be a dispute fee. $20 per. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deaddds Posted January 21, 2021 Author Share Posted January 21, 2021 Also, you have to link your bank account direct. Thats how they will deposit your sales. Direct and immediately take your fees off the top. How fun will this be recouping money owed to a seller if stuff backfires. Oh, and it promises to be safe. PROMISES! Cant possibly see how them knowing your bank account could go sideways. They've only hacked NASA, the Pentagon, Amazon, Microsoft, etc.. you know, the smaller American companies and obscure government agencies. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
padgett Posted January 21, 2021 Share Posted January 21, 2021 Suspect I'd just open a new savings account for eBay only. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1937hd45 Posted January 21, 2021 Share Posted January 21, 2021 This system has been in effect for at least FOUR months. PayPal was INSTANT payment, this deal takes a DAY. Only show in town, they set the rules. List the junk, sell the junk buyer pays you, NOT rocker science. Bob 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesR Posted January 21, 2021 Share Posted January 21, 2021 1 hour ago, GregLaR said: Time for somebody to start a new auction venue. I agree. And time for somebody to start companies that will compete with a long list of internet and social media platforms (and us to start patronizing them in a big way.) 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deaddds Posted January 21, 2021 Author Share Posted January 21, 2021 (edited) Oh, well for whatever reason they are just now sending my account a notice on this change. So I hope the stick method for sellers dispute fee penalty is many phone calls debateable if applied? I guess I was unaware as Ive been selling and paying the same way since they forced me to use paypal come hell or highwater. Edited January 21, 2021 by deaddds (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rusty12 Posted January 21, 2021 Share Posted January 21, 2021 (edited) I'm confused. As a seller on Ebay, does this mean I can no longer accept payments via PayPal? If I can no longer accept PayPal payments, does this mean the only payment option is a transfer into my bank account? As a buyer on Ebay, does this mean I can no longer pay via PayPal? If I can't pay through PayPal, how do I pay? I don't use Ebay that much anymore, so I am not up to speed on what is going on. Edited January 21, 2021 by rusty12 (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick8086 Posted January 21, 2021 Share Posted January 21, 2021 I have not sold anything on eBay for year and a half.. I may just sell some 10.00 items.. It time to get more stuff to guys that need it.. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deaddds Posted January 21, 2021 Author Share Posted January 21, 2021 I didnt scroll through all the bullet points yet. I accept paypal because I have to but get a monthly statement on my cc for fees and if I make a buy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Locomobile Posted January 21, 2021 Share Posted January 21, 2021 (edited) I quit using ebay. I sold a steam pump to a guy for 1800 dollars, 20 days later he decided he didn't want it. He returned it and I couldn't get my 180 dollar seller fees back, they took the fees after it was returned. They are scum don't deal with them. The seller has no rights at all, many get screwed with no recourse. Buyers have 180 days to return an item for full refund. You have one choice, give them their money back, no matter what. Buyers will buy working items and return their original non working item for refund. All kinds of scammers on there now. Even some of the sellers, I've bought stuff in the last few years, misrepresentation is very common. There are alternative auction sites, but they get no traffic, Ebay is one of the media darlings that they can't go more than a few days without mentioning. Pumping the stock. Anything new that I purchase, Amazon. What a lot of people are using now is Facebook marketplace. And Craig's list too. Edited January 21, 2021 by Locomobile (see edit history) 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
viv w Posted January 21, 2021 Share Posted January 21, 2021 Yup, Ebay are racketeering, the same with the customs service charges they now put quietly on stuff being exported. I got billed an extra $40usd for this priviledge, even though my parts are due no customs fees into Canada, as the parts are over 25 years old. So watch out for this small print when reading the shipping fees. My advice, if you have parts you want to get rid of, put them on the for sale section of this forum, with a price you are prepared to accept, no ebay fees. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gungeey Posted January 21, 2021 Share Posted January 21, 2021 Digital crypto-currency is rapidly gaining traction. Online giants have their hand in so many bank accounts. we accepted updated terms and conditions, few read them. There are other forums for more than that on this topic.Steve 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
junkyardjeff Posted January 21, 2021 Share Posted January 21, 2021 There was another auction site I was on but lost that info a couple computers back and can not remember what it was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John348 Posted January 21, 2021 Share Posted January 21, 2021 You can still use your paypal account? so that is not a problem for me if they collect the charges at the point of purchase. The $20 holding fee, I don't really agree with it but I only had two problem buyers in over 2,000 transactions so... just have to see how it unfolds. What do they do if the item is less then $20? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Shaw Posted January 21, 2021 Share Posted January 21, 2021 6 hours ago, viv w said: My advice, if you have parts you want to get rid of, put them on the for sale section of this forum, with a price you are prepared to accept, no ebay fees. I completely agree.... I quit selling on Evilbay... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TTR Posted January 21, 2021 Share Posted January 21, 2021 (edited) "money grab" ? "get the bone" ? wildwest" ? "bloodletting" ? OH MY DOG, sky is falling... . . . . ... (wait for it)... . . . . ... again ! The eeeevil private business corporate conglomerates are "sticking it" to the little guys ... again, by forcing us(?) to conduct our business on their platforms, by their rules, just to make profit from it ! HOW DARE THEY ? Who do they think they are ??? Let's all unite, tear them down and put them out of business !!! Edited January 21, 2021 by TTR (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
60FlatTop Posted January 21, 2021 Share Posted January 21, 2021 Just before I logged on here I ended 16 automotive auctions on Ebay. It was mostly inexpensive stuff I could easily throw away. But with fees and higher postage the price gets doubled for the buyer on small items. When the hobbyist can't find those elusive small bits they will wonder what happened. I used to buy fairly large accumulations and get things back in circulation. Last time I did that was 2015, passed on a few stashes since then. Just not worth it. The tipping point for me was the new system taking 4 days to deposit. Then I made a refund and it took 4 seconds, a little too one-sided for me. I may set up a website with a catalog and a bunch of Paypal Buy It Now buttons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
auburnseeker Posted January 21, 2021 Share Posted January 21, 2021 18 minutes ago, TTR said: "money grab" ? "get the bone" ? wildwest" ? "bloodletting" ? OH MY DOG, sky is falling... . . . . ... (wait for it)... . . . . ... again ! The eeeevil private business corporate conglomerates are "sticking it" to the little guys ... again, by forcing us(?) to conduct our business on their platforms, by their rules, just to make profit from it ! HOW DARE THEY ? Who do they think they are ??? Let's all unite, tear them down and put them out of business !!! Yeah guess what, Ebay uses independent sellers to provide the merchandise, including listing, acquiring, and shipping, plus dealing with any actual returns. They only provide the software. Without us, there won't be them, we do 98% of the work. If enough of the suppliers stop doing the work, the site fails. Something they need to keep in mind. Ebay is not Amazon and has no actual product themselves that I am aware. Just a network of sellers that can all leave with no obligation tomorrow. If this happened the company would fold. So we may not be forced to use their platform but for a platform that relies so heavily on individuals, they should take that into consideration when making changes. It will all affect their bottom line. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
padgett Posted January 21, 2021 Share Posted January 21, 2021 Just be glad you have some protection. For what used to be see September 24, 1869. I only buy on e-Bay and use AmEx. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Locomobile Posted January 21, 2021 Share Posted January 21, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, 60FlatTop said: Just before I logged on here I ended 16 automotive auctions on Ebay. It was mostly inexpensive stuff I could easily throw away. But with fees and higher postage the price gets doubled for the buyer on small items. When the hobbyist can't find those elusive small bits they will wonder what happened. I used to buy fairly large accumulations and get things back in circulation. Last time I did that was 2015, passed on a few stashes since then. Just not worth it. The tipping point for me was the new system taking 4 days to deposit. Then I made a refund and it took 4 seconds, a little too one-sided for me. I may set up a website with a catalog and a bunch of Paypal Buy It Now buttons. A private website? You can but you won't get the traffic that Ebay gets unless you know and pay for the mystical formulae to get your site to show up near front page in search engines. Nor will you get the very sophisticated sales techniques Ebay uses to direct potential buyers to your item, through their highly refined search system or by targeting potential buyers through spam emails suggesting your item. Ebay is great at getting your item sold, they want those fees, they don't care if you make any money or not and they will outright steal from you. Keep in mind, anything you sell on there and accept paypal payment, the buyer has 180 days to return it for full refund. Ebay takes the fees out of your bank account right after it has sold, if the buyer asks for a refund beyond 30 days, you will not get those seller fees refunded. Been there done that too many times. At one time I was moving close to 250k annually through Ebay, my seller fees one year were 12k, I have extensive experience with these creeps. I even had a special phone number to call to dial straight in to support if I needed it, they loved me. Stay away and it's getting worse all the time as they lose customers like me. They tighten the screws on who's left to keep the money rolling in. Edited January 21, 2021 by Locomobile (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TTR Posted January 21, 2021 Share Posted January 21, 2021 17 minutes ago, auburnseeker said: Yeah guess what, Ebay uses independent sellers to provide the merchandise, including listing, acquiring, and shipping, plus dealing with any actual returns. They only provide the software. Without us, there won't be them, we do 98% of the work. If enough of the suppliers stop doing the work, the site fails. Something they need to keep in mind. Ebay is not Amazon and has no actual product themselves that I am aware. Just a network of sellers that can all leave with no obligation tomorrow. If this happened the company would fold. So we may not be forced to use their platform but for a platform that relies so heavily on individuals, they should take that into consideration when making changes. It will all affect their bottom line. I've said it before, I know how it works, I've been buying and selling on "Eeeevilbay"(?) for over a decade and can't see any reasons to complain, since it's a free market, private enterprise conducting business based on capitalistic principles, which I wholeheartedly subscribe to and support. So far I've never felt they held a gun against my head forcing me to buy or sell anything on their platform. I just got done dealing with what could be considered (or at least I did) very deceptive business methods/tactics by a multi-billion $ international shipping conglomerate, which I contracted to transport four (domestic, ground) shipments for what I believed and according to their website should've cost, let's say (combined) $1.5K (equal of what I also billed my clients for these shipments). Well, few weeks later, after all four had been delivered (to FL, MN, MT and WA) I received four shipping charge invoices totaling to +/-$7K. Mind you that the gross value of products in these four shipments was less than $4K (+ aforementioned shipping of +/-$1.5K). Took me two months and numerous hours communicating between various of their departments, but I managed to get the excess charges (+/-$4.5K) refunded back to my CC by convincing them it would be their best interest to do so. No need for lawyers, outside help or acting like a teenage drama queen on the internet. And yes, I'm still willing to do business with them, but next time, I'll just make sure to set my actions/expectations accordingly. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
auburnseeker Posted January 21, 2021 Share Posted January 21, 2021 As usual someone trying to tell us we aren't allowed to post our thoughts because they are irrelevant to their way of thinking. Soon you won't be able to discuss the weather over coffee with a friend anymore because you might not both agree it's going to rain. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pkhammer Posted January 21, 2021 Share Posted January 21, 2021 I have a hard time understanding all of the complains too. With no swap meets to attend this past year (and maybe not in 2020) I was thankful to have a resource like ebay to sell items. Yes they've made changes that I don't necessarily like but basic fees have not changed much and the money shows up in may bank account in a few days. I've sold thousands of items on ebay in the last 10-12 years and I can count on one hand the returns I've had. I accept the returns gladly, refund the money, ebay returns the fees they took and I relist the items for sale. Big deal. A small bit of aggravation to bear in my opinion for doing business. My experience has been like this; Take a part worth $150 to a swap meet or list it on any given website for $125 hoping to maybe get $100. If you get any action at all it's 90% low-ballers wanting the item the $50 IF you include shipping! List it on ebay and get $150 plus shipping. By my math after the ebay fees (12-13%) I still get $130 in my bank account. I'm happy with that outcome. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Locomobile Posted January 21, 2021 Share Posted January 21, 2021 3 minutes ago, TTR said: I've said it before, I know how it works, I've been buying and selling on "Eeeevilbay"(?) for over a decade and can't see any reasons to complain, since it's a free market, private enterprise conducting business based on capitalistic principles, which I wholeheartedly subscribe to and support. So far I've never felt they held a gun against my head forcing me to buy or sell anything on their platform. I just got done dealing with what could be considered (or at least I did) very deceptive business methods/tactics by a multi-billion $ international shipping conglomerate, which I contracted to transport four (domestic, ground) shipments for what I believed and according to their website should've cost, let's say (combined) $1.5K (equal of what I also billed my clients for these shipments). Well, few weeks later, after all four had been delivered (to FL, MN, MT and WA) I received four shipping charge invoices totaling to +/-$7K. Mind you that the gross value of products in these four shipments was less than $4K (+ aforementioned shipping of +/-$1.5K). Took me two months and numerous hours communicating between various of their departments, but I managed to get the excess charges (+/-$4.5K) refunded back to my CC by convincing them it would be their best interest to do so. No need for lawyers, outside help or acting like a teenage drama queen on the internet. And yes, I'm still willing to do business with them, but next time, I'll just make sure to set my actions/expectations accordingly. Yeah some of these freight companies are really grabby with your Credit card too. I'll list a pallet 40 x 48, and the shipping is 300 lets say, if they say that pallet is 41 X 48 at the terminal hub, they tack on another hundred in additional charges. They do the weight the same way, a few pounds over and it's an 80-90 dollar increases. YRC, Pitt Ohio, Old Dominion, UPS freight especially are really bad about it. I always fudge the numbers higher now to avoid it. I don't mind them charging a little extra if I'm wrong about the weight or dimensions, but it should be congruent with the original cost of the shipment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Locomobile Posted January 21, 2021 Share Posted January 21, 2021 9 minutes ago, auburnseeker said: As usual someone trying to tell us we aren't allowed to post our thoughts because they are irrelevant to their way of thinking. Soon you won't be able to discuss the weather over coffee with a friend anymore because you might not both agree it's going to rain. he just hasn't felt the sting of Feebay billing yet 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
auburnseeker Posted January 21, 2021 Share Posted January 21, 2021 If you look into the ebay community boards you will see issues with pricing and stuff. Alot has to depend on what you are selling. I start everything cheap. Thus my fees actually go up percentage wise of the item when I have a bad sales night. Also things like refunds you give for shipping because customers overpaid because the request a total button doesn't work, the fees are not refunded on them. I even mentioned this to a very helpful ebay rep that was trying to help me fix a problem they created, and she acknowledged it in such a way that I understood she didn't think that was right either. Not a big deal until you refund $100 in shipping in a single day. She also couldn't figure out how to fix that request a total problem or the one they created that would no longer allow me to use Safari to invoice customers. I finally downloaded firefox and that seems to work. She tried but it seems ebay could care less about sellers. That's what the complaints are. For the people that pay you, in my case around 10,000 or so in fees a year you would expect a little better customer service. Someone on the boards also explained how ebay's fees quoted for what they should be, were not what you were actually paying. I wished I would have copied it. One of those the numbers definitely didn't add up to what they were suppose to be. I do know I don't like the random deposits and don't have the time to really analyze how much they are really getting as you are paid, then that money may take a few days to clear or more, then eventually they are sent to your account that they eventually arrive at. Fortunately I'm not living on the edge, financially, so it's not as big a deal, but some people that are buying and selling in large numbers, could easily find themselves strapped to make the next purchase to resell or overdrawn if they have auto debit for any major bills and use the same account as the one ebay dips in and out of if a customer suddenly opens a claim. Could even be for a late arriving item, that does eventually show up,. I had that happen twice in the last month. They all showed up, but only after the dispute was opened. I also noticed it takes nearly a week to add cash from my bank to pay pal, which now never gets a deposit in it unless I make it. Yet it's an electronic transfer. Real pain if you are making a purchase outside of ebay for something you found elsewhere on the web and need to wire the money to make the purchase. Yup we need to learn to live with it, but we don't need to like it. Now we have a whole tax disaster to deal with this year, since you got funds through pay pal, so you'll get your 1099 from them and one from ebay payments as well, that is broke down who knows how. Because of a shipping change I have shipping to figure out from ebay, until the change, then from pay pal after the change, until I finally found Pirate Ship (best shipping site in the world in my opinion) So now you have 3 shipping sources, taken out of multiple accounts, income from multiple sources and fees from the same to all figure out. With pay pal it was all in one and neatly spelled out. We'll see. I'm not looking forward to tax time this year. What a mess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1937hd45 Posted January 21, 2021 Share Posted January 21, 2021 I just keep on listing, there are buyers out there more than happy to buy whatever I decide to list. Good photos and an honest description are key. Bob 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pkhammer Posted January 21, 2021 Share Posted January 21, 2021 I don't make my living buying and selling on ebay. I'm sure some of you guys are dealing with a lot bigger $$ than I am. I'm not saying these problems don't exist, I'm just saying I have not experienced them. For accounting it was for sure better when everything came thru PayPal. I find it a lot more difficult to reconcile my sales vs. payouts these days. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John348 Posted January 21, 2021 Share Posted January 21, 2021 30 minutes ago, pkhammer said: I have a hard time understanding all of the complains too. With no swap meets to attend this past year (and maybe not in 2020) I was thankful to have a resource like ebay to sell items. Yes they've made changes that I don't necessarily like but basic fees have not changed much and the money shows up in may bank account in a few days. I've sold thousands of items on ebay in the last 10-12 years and I can count on one hand the returns I've had. I accept the returns gladly, refund the money, ebay returns the fees they took and I relist the items for sale. Big deal. A small bit of aggravation to bear in my opinion for doing business. My experience has been like this; Take a part worth $150 to a swap meet or list it on any given website for $125 hoping to maybe get $100. If you get any action at all it's 90% low-ballers wanting the item the $50 IF you include shipping! List it on ebay and get $150 plus shipping. By my math after the ebay fees (12-13%) I still get $130 in my bank account. I'm happy with that outcome. I agree totally, I sell at one swap meet a year Hershey. I am about 2K in the hole before I even set one table up with a whole load of variables, everything comes at a cost, but ebay has been pretty easy for me so far. I have been leaning to the "buy it now" sales and getting away from the auction format. Every auction has a fee, so I don't see the complaints either. 6 minutes ago, 1937hd45 said: I just keep on listing, there are buyers out there more than happy to buy whatever I decide to list. Good photos and an honest description are key. Bob I have been doing the same, I learned a lot of things, about words and descriptions, everybody's idea of "minor" and "slightly' can vary a lot. So from now on, I clearly state, "items is pitted please look at photos to see if the part is to your liking" 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Locomobile Posted January 21, 2021 Share Posted January 21, 2021 (edited) Ebay is now suited for selling market specific items with lower prices. The items I sold on there ranged from 2000-6000 dollars. In that price range it opens up a whole plethora of issues with buyers. From people not truly understanding what they were buying, stolen credit cards and guys wives threatening to leave them if they didn't get that money back on ''her dam credit card''. If you have old desirable car items and the transactions are lower in price range, your customers fully understand what they are buying and there are fewer problems. If a deal goes sideways, it's lunch at McDonald's no biggie. When ya get boned for 400 bucks for seller fees and not one bit of it is your own fault, it sucks. I'm sure in any court they'd lose, well, maybe not now. Ron Edited January 21, 2021 by Locomobile (see edit history) 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pkhammer Posted January 21, 2021 Share Posted January 21, 2021 Yep, spring Carlisle and Hershey! Hershey is the ONE I don't like to miss! But even at Hershey by the time I pay for spaces and travel expenses such as food, fuel and perhaps a helper expenses definitely top $1000+ so sales need to be mighty good to still fall into that (ebay) 10-15% expense range. Of course, there's a whole lot more to love about Hershey than just selling...................😁 I quit doing small swap meets because sometimes expenses EXCEEDED sales. That's just a wasted day from a purely financial standpoint. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pkhammer Posted January 21, 2021 Share Posted January 21, 2021 1 minute ago, Locomobile said: Ebay is now suited for selling market specific items with lower prices. The items I sold on there ranged from 2000-6000 dollars. In that price range it opens up a whole plethora of issues with buyers. From people not truly understanding what they were buying, stolen credit cards and guys wives threatening to leave them if they didn't get that money back on ''her dam credit card''. If you have old desirable car items and the transactions are lower in price range, your customers fully understand what they are buying and there are fewer problems. If a deal goes sideways, it's lunch at McDonald's no biggie. Ron Agree. 99% of what I sell on ebay is $20-$250 and most ships via USPS flat rate boxes. That's a happy place to be for me. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John348 Posted January 21, 2021 Share Posted January 21, 2021 1 hour ago, pkhammer said: Agree. 99% of what I sell on ebay is $20-$250 and most ships via USPS flat rate boxes. That's a happy place to be for me. Same here, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TAKerry Posted January 21, 2021 Share Posted January 21, 2021 For those that enjoy a nice income from ebay sales they should be grateful that format exists. Fees are the cost of doing business. I am sure in the long run its cheaper than a store front rental, counter staff, insurance, utilities, advertising etc. For me if ebay went away tomorrow I could care less. I think I have bought maybe 3 or 4 things from there during my lifetime. If Im looking for car parts I will stick with forums, and occasionally craigslist. I do look through ebay, and have seen some things I would like to get but just have never pulled that plug. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1937hd45 Posted January 21, 2021 Share Posted January 21, 2021 2 hours ago, Locomobile said: Ebay is now suited for selling market specific items with lower prices. The items I sold on there ranged from 2000-6000 dollars. That it a totally different business plan than anyone I've ever meet doing eBay. I'm happy with the 25-50 dollar buyer and a home run is over a hundred bucks. Still listing not complaining. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Locomobile Posted January 21, 2021 Share Posted January 21, 2021 40 minutes ago, TAKerry said: Fees are the cost of doing business. I agree 100%. The problem is they keep fees they are not logically ( and most likely, not legally) entitled to. If a buyer returns an item and you refund them 100% of their purchase price, that deal really didn't happen and ebay has no reason other than greed to keep your seller fees that were at 10% the last time I got burned. It would be like a realtor handling the sale of your house, the deal falls through but they still take their sales commission. Right is right, and that is wrong. I never had a problem issuing a refund on a returned item, but ebay should have only kept a portion of the fees, not 100% of them. I've had dealings with a lot of companies that behave that way and eventually the class action lawsuit appears. If and when it happens with them, they are going to owe me a substantial amount. -Ron 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now