Auto Body Fillers

[John Jacques]

We've seen TV auto restoration episodes that show them applying a smooth creamy like auto body filler over a complete panel and in some cases over the entire car. Very easy, and dusty sanding process to achieve a flat surface. What is the product that they use??? Thanks, Jakes 😁

[JustDave]

Rage gold is one of the better ones

[George Cole]

So what's the difference between this and the traditional bondo?

[Guest]

 We use a product called Icing.

 It is a very fine plastic filler for very minor imperfections. it is used to fill in where the "bondo" stops and the metal starts.

[TAKerry]

I have used the generic bondo stuff for woodworking when applicable, and I use Rage Gold and similar for auto work. The Rage stuff seems to be a much better product. It seems to be very fine, and sands out great, compared to the Bondo which is a bit more coarse, so to speak. I have never had to cover a car or panel completely, I think the high build primer and lots of sanding works out most of the imperfections.

[George Cole]

Perhaps I'm too much old-school Corvette oriented, but fiberglass has always been my go-to product, with a fine, finishing putty used over minor imperfections.  I would typically sand to a 1600 grit finish giving a super-smooth base for the primer..

[Harold]

 I knew a body guy in the 1980's who would thin-out NItrostan (a glazing putty) to sprayabl consistency, then shoot the whole car with it.  He would sand the Nitrostan and get a very smooth surface.

[1937hd45]

5 hours ago, George Cole said:

So what's the difference between this and the traditional bondo?

Fiat vs Lamborghini. 

[Hudsy Wudsy]

5 hours ago, George Cole said:

Perhaps I'm too much old-school Corvette oriented, but fiberglass has always been my go-to product, with a fine, finishing putty used over minor imperfections.  I would typically sand to a 1600 grit finish giving a super-smooth base for the primer..

George, I don't pretend to know much about these matters, but I might have thought that primers would require more "tooth" to adhere to than a 1600 finish. Are you talking about primers with some sort of bonding agent?

[60FlatTop]

The Rage Gold is an Evercoat product, all very good stuff. The 400 Ultra Glazing Putty comes in 20 oz. cans and is good for deep scratches if you want to try out a small job.

[George Cole]

8 hours ago, Hudsy Wudsy said:

George, I don't pretend to know much about these matters, but I might have thought that primers would require more "tooth" to adhere to than a 1600 finish. Are you talking about primers with some sort of bonding agent?

Why would that be any different than a new piece of sheet metal?  It's been a while since I painted, but if my memory serves me correctly, yes the primers did have a bonding agent.

[60FlatTop]

Newer products use a chemical bond rather than mechanical (tooth). Lots of NASA evolved technologies out there today. Keeping up sometimes goes beyond the hobby level of updating. PPG recently changed its formulation and there is some adaptation there.

[John Jacques]

Thanks to all that replied to my original question!!!

Although it seems that Rage products were the preference of a filler to be used, my original question still remains unanswered. On auto restoration TV shows they use a product of mass quantities to get a smooth panel/s. Chip Foose on Overhauling' uses a lot of this product. Could it be Rage products, I don't know, does anybody know??

[joe_padavano]

12 hours ago, Harold said:

 I knew a body guy in the 1980's who would thin-out NItrostan (a glazing putty) to sprayabl consistency, then shoot the whole car with it.  He would sand the Nitrostan and get a very smooth surface.

 

You can buy high build sprayable products off the shelf.

[Hudsy Wudsy]

2 hours ago, George Cole said:

Why would that be any different than a new piece of sheet metal?  It's been a while since I painted, but if my memory serves me correctly, yes the primers did have a bonding agent.

Again, I'm out of my depth, but I thought that we "etched" bare metal with acid to give it the necessary "tooth" . I'm sorry. I really don't have enough experience to be in this conversation, though.

[SC38dls]

Email the shows production company and ask. Most likely the best way to get your answer. Then let us know also. 

[Guest]

2 hours ago, John Jacques said:

On auto restoration TV shows they use a product of mass quantities to get a smooth panel/s. Chip Foose on Overhauling' uses a lot of this product. Could it be Rage products, I don't know, does anybody know??

 Anyone knows that the quickest way to smooth over a parking lot is to pour 6" of concrete over it and smooth it to a level surface.

 (Of course that will crack too!)

[Eldovert]

John,

They could be using any number of products or brands using that technique..but that is a hell of a lot of work.

A more efficient way is to spray the panel in a direct to metal high build primer...and there are many choices using that technique.

Do you see a sponsor advertised during the show such as PPG?...chances are it is a product from a sponsor.

Cheers,Pat

[John348]

On 9/26/2020 at 10:24 PM, Harold said:

 I knew a body guy in the 1980's who would thin-out NItrostan (a glazing putty) to sprayabl consistency, then shoot the whole car with it.  He would sand the Nitrostan and get a very smooth surface.

 

Hard to believe but that was almost 40 years ago, seems like the techniques and materials have evolved so much in that time, mostly for the better

[jan arnett (2)]

On 9/26/2020 at 10:30 AM, John Jacques said:

We've seen TV auto restoration episodes that show them applying a smooth creamy like auto body filler over a complete panel and in some cases over the entire car. Very easy, and dusty sanding process to achieve a flat surface. What is the product that they use??? Thanks, Jakes 😁

John we need to look at all the steps you have to go through to get a car ready to paint to answer your question.  I am not an expert but here is what I have been taught to do and follow.  First if you are an old painter you have had to learn new steps,  When you start on a car body you need to prime it.  Twenty years ago you would metal prep a car with acid, then put bondo on, prime it and paint.  Paint companies started offering primer with acid in it (Variprime) then you bondo and painted.  This was and is DTM (direct to metal) primer.  Now we have Epoxy primer (2K) which the manfacture tells you not to prime over acid products and they will not warrant there products.  Next you would use Bondo to fill small creases and then you use a primer.  If you have rust spots, or pin holes you use a glazing compound (Rage, Dolphin Glaze, 3M Platnium Plus) or you can spray a high build primer like (slick sand, feather fill) followed by a 2K primer.  Then comes color.  My picture shows each product in the order of use.  This is why a paint job costs so much just in materials not counting paint and labor.

 

What is the difference between Bondo and glazing compound.  The glazing compound is very thin and has a very short working time usually 2-3 minutes where the Bondo has a much longer working time around 15-30 minutes.  The product they are using is a Bond type product.

 

.

 

 

[jan arnett (2)]

On 9/26/2020 at 10:30 AM, John Jacques said:

We've seen TV auto restoration episodes that show them applying a smooth creamy like auto body filler over a complete panel and in some cases over the entire car. Very easy, and dusty sanding process to achieve a flat surface. What is the product that they use??? Thanks, Jakes 😁

I have to point out that these shows are poor examples of how to do body work.  Bondo has never been intended to be put on thick.  These are not body men and probable don't own a body hammer or file.  Look at them as entertainment not learning exercises.  They are not restoring cars usually hacking them up.

[MochetVelo]

The rule is 'the less body filler, the better.' 1/16" thickness or less is my goal. If you need more than that, you should use a hammer and dolly.  I like the Eastwood "Contour" body filler. It never clogs my sandpapers and is forgiving in mixing.

 

Phil

[Frank DuVal]

8 hours ago, jan arnett (2) said:

much longer working time around 15-30 minutes

 

If some "Bondo" I mixed took 30 minutes to harden when I had the collision shop, I would be scraping it off and trying again, or think about heating the shop! If you put in enough of that pimple cream, it will harden in a few minutes!

 

Pimple Cream? Yep, Oxy 50 (50% Benzoyl Peroxide) is the cream hardener  😁  Not recommended for facial application!😲

[John Jacques]

Again, thanks to all who have replied. A lot of good comments and suggestions. I also am a believer that less is better. I only asked this question regarding what is the name of the product that is seen on the auto restoration tv shows as not one of the guys that I talk to knows what it is. I have also asked my local PPG dealer and they also don't know.  I guess this will be an unanswered question that I can live with. Thanks, Jakes

[Stooge]

On 9/27/2020 at 10:50 AM, John Jacques said:

Thanks to all that replied to my original question!!!

Although it seems that Rage products were the preference of a filler to be used, my original question still remains unanswered. On auto restoration TV shows they use a product of mass quantities to get a smooth panel/s. Chip Foose on Overhauling' uses a lot of this product. Could it be Rage products, I don't know, does anybody know??

 

For tv shows, I think it would end up being whoever the supplier is sponsoring the show.  Chip Foose is sponsored by 3M and thus uses 3M Bondo brand fillers. I havent used all of the different Bondo brand fillers and i would imagine that Foose uses a higher end flavor, but regular, off the shelf at the parts store Bondo, isnt my favorite. It's generally pretty hard to sand, and i have run into adhesion issues with it. i've been using Rage Gold/ Evercoat products for years, and have been well worth the slightly more money to me in terms of ease of use and results from it. 

 

 

Edited September 29, 2020 by Stooge (see edit history)

[F&J]

4 minutes ago, Stooge said:

I havent used all of the different Bondo brand fillers, but regular, off the shelf at the parts store Bondo, isnt my favorite. It's generally pretty hard to sand,

I recently bought what might be a new Bondo product called fast dry.  I was thinking it might set up too quickly so I don't use much hardener at all while getting familiar with it. 

 

I was somewhat shocked that the surface was not at all sticky like the old Bondo in a short amount of drying time.  It sands very well and most importantly it was not choking the sandpaper at all, even when roughing it down not too long after it set up.  I am not using much sandpaper at all so far

 

It was on sale at Advance Auto Parts, $23 a gallon, they did not have quart size except for their regular Bondo and their own gold Bondo.  Those quarts were around the $20 range, so that's the reason why I tried the new one.

[Stooge]

24 minutes ago, F&J said:

I recently bought what might be a new Bondo product called fast dry.  I was thinking it might set up too quickly so I don't use much hardener at all while getting familiar with it. 

 

I was somewhat shocked that the surface was not at all sticky like the old Bondo in a short amount of drying time.  It sands very well and most importantly it was not choking the sandpaper at all, even when roughing it down not too long after it set up.  I am not using much sandpaper at all so far

 

It was on sale at Advance Auto Parts, $23 a gallon, they did not have quart size except for their regular Bondo and their own gold Bondo.  Those quarts were around the $20 range, so that's the reason why I tried the new one.

 

Thats good to know! Constantly gumming up sandpaper and having to change it prematurely was one of the big stick out memories when i was thinking of when i've used it before, aside from being hard to sand down. Now you have me a little curious about what/ how the new stuff is. i end up doing a lot of sheet metal repairs for people, and i'm sure it would be more convenient for them to have something nice to use and readily available at the store down the street, than telling them to order online or go to an auto body supply house, when it comes time for them to bodywork the repaired area. 

[jan arnett (2)]

Did you know that "BONDO" is a 3M trademarked name.

[saber]

Modern fillers are sometimes called lightweight fillerσ as the filler in the polyester resin is made up of both talc and hollow glass beads. Get 3M 262 Lightweigh body Filler Quart Can - 1 lbs 12 oz filler. It's amazing. No pinholes and it is the consistency of peanut butter. I won't go back to evercoat again. You can check reviews of the best body fillers on innovatecar.

Edited August 18, 2021 by saber (see edit history)

[Digger914]

Why do restorers smear the whole car with goo and spend another twenty hours of sanding. The DIY shinny coat of paint on the body repaired daily driver is one thing, but show quality paint jobs take time and quality materials aren't cheap. 

 

Prepping is the secret to painting and even brand new steel body panels have minute manufacturing wrinkles.  

 

A glass smooth paint job needs a glass smooth base. Ignoring all brand names and going for the gold, the real difference between body filler and glazing compound becomes obvious under the microscope where smooth sanded filler looks as porous as an absorbent paper towel and smooth sanded glazing compound looks as smooth as the face of a shinny business card.