Beware of a new scam I had pulled on me in broad day light.

[wayne sheldon]

Disgusting that this happened to you. We know in this hobby that there are many (thousands?) of such collections "out there" and some of them become available almost every day. So there is good reason to believe when offers come along. I have never dealt in buying for the purpose of resale myself, but have bought a few pickup type loads of antique automobile parts because they had enough stuff in the pile that I wanted for myself. I have also bought large quantities of 78 rpm records or collector car type magazines a few times (I donated about a thousand mostly duplicate magazines to a museum fundraiser a couple years ago).

Such legitimate deals often come along under duress as estates needing to be settled often have upcoming storage and/or handling problems. This creates many suspicious circumstances (including "other people" involved) in even legitimate deals.

 

Law enforcement these days is at best a crap shoot. About eight years ago, my family had a bunch of stuff stored in one of the best known national chain storage places. Business records, family heirlooms, jewelry, tools and electronics. In what was CLEARLY an inside job (manager's keys and codes were used to gain after-hours access!), the unit was broken into and between five to ten thousand dollars worth was stolen!

San Jose, Califunny! The PD's "burglary division" amounted to ONE man, nothing more than a file clerk that took reports. No patrol car unless "we" wanted to sit at the site all day and maybe several days. No fingerprinting. No photos, NO investigation to AGAIN a clearly inside job! And clearly a felony level burglary.

 

Sadly, this is the inevitable result when a society turns to dishonesty as a valid business plan. We have (and have had for decades) mainstream media and news that is almost totally politically driven (whether right or left) and only reports things to push their agendas. Without honest journalism,  looking to right wrongs and expose lies regardless of affiliations, we WILL (and do) have a wholly dishonest political arena where both major parties (and virtually all minor parties)  do little more than lie and misdirect to gain power and then sell out votes and legislation for big bucks for the select few that directly support them. From that, the next inevitable step is a wholly dishonest government. One that mostly lies and misdirects the populace to further its own agendas solely to enrich the wealthy few at the expense of the hardworking middle class (we crossed that line about thirty years ago). And without honest journalism, the whole thing just gets worse and worse. Lies beget lies. Deceit begets more and more deceit. Eventually, we really cannot believe anything that our government, or mainstream media says.

Once the government becomes basically corrupt, MOST corporate business WILL adopt dishonesty as a mainstay of their business plans. What used to be legitimate "sale pricing" and "manufacturer's specials" turned into price manipulation where half the products in the store seem to be on sale every other week. Usury laws used to protect people from unscrupulous loans and abusive fees. Now? I get "loan offers" almost every week with interest rates over fifty percent annual, and occasionally, some even over one hundred percent annual interest! Business administrators are rewarded for destroying a company's foundation and sending hundreds and often thousands of their CUSTOMERS into unemployment.

 

Again, I have ranted enough for a given thread. However, seriously consider where we are today. And just where do you think we will go next?

 

Again, Randy, I am saddened by this turn of events. Chin up. Be proud. And continue to enjoy the hobby and the journey it takes you on.

[SC38dls]

Wow. That is pure guts to meet in person. If you ever do one again take pictures of the guy and his license plate if possible. Email them to yourself right away.  
if you have a bank receipt showing the withdrawal of $5g and you report it to the local cops they may just be able to find him thru the emails IP address. A lot of police departments have cyber crime divisions. Just maybe you could get lucky. I doubt you will ever see the $ back but the satisfaction of stopping this turkey may be worth the try. 
At least he only got some and not all of the cash and you were not physically hurt. 
dave s. 

[Lebowski]

8 hours ago, auburnseeker said:

 He got $3000 in cash and disappeared...

 

I was very sorry to hear about your unfortunate experience with the scammer. I too have been selling old car brochures on eBay full time since 2002 along with old shop manuals, old owner's manuals, old license plates, etc. I ran a "wanted" ad in Hemmings for years looking for large collections of these items until some genius at Hemmings decided to stop running the "wanted" ads in the online version of their publication. That's when my business dropped off by about 95%. Did you have the same problem? I've been all over the eastern half of the country from Maine to North Carolina to Michigan to Tennessee and fortunately never had any serious problems. I've been to isolated areas with thousands of dollars of cash in my pocket hoping that I'm going to meet a legitimate seller and not a thief with a gun. Hopefully the jerk who ripped you off will be brought to justice and you'll get your money back. Good luck....

[auburnseeker]

6 minutes ago, Lebowski said:

 

I was very sorry to hear about your unfortunate experience with the scammer. I too have been selling old car brochures on eBay full time since 2002 along with old shop manuals, old owner's manuals, old license plates, etc. I ran a "wanted" ad in Hemmings for years looking for large collections of these items until some genius at Hemmings decided to stop running the "wanted" ads in the online version of their publication. That's when my business dropped off by about 95%. Did you have the same problem? I've been all over the eastern half of the country from Maine to North Carolina to Michigan to Tennessee and fortunately never had any serious problems. I've been to isolated areas with thousands of dollars of cash in my pocket hoping that I'm going to meet a legitimate seller and not a thief with a gun. Hopefully the jerk who ripped you off will be brought to justice and you'll get your money back. Good luck....

I've never run an ad in Hemmings.  Last time I was scammed was about 5 years ago and that was through an ad in the Auto Round up.  So far other than this idiot I have done well advertising through Craigslist and have made some great buys off my wanted ads. 

[46 woodie]

n your initial post you say the thief went inside Walmart to get his wife. Walmart has got to have several pictures of him on their security cameras.I

[JamesR]

Is it all automotive literature? Did he seem familiar with the subject, as in demonstrating specific knowledge on obscure or obsolete automobile brands?

 

I'm sorry about your unfortunate and discouraging incident. Even at age 61, it seems so strange to me that people can make a living at - and build a life around - cheating other people.

[leon bee]

Man, this is strange. When I started reading the emails I decided that this was going to turn out to be some kind of joke thread. What was it about those messages which would tempt anybody? Maybe it's because I'm not a money motivated sort of person,just don't know. That would not have happened to me, and I'm just a hillbilly.

[wayne sheldon]

I admit I only read through a small portion of the emails. Couldn't stand to read them myself. A few people have made comments about badly written emails being a tip-off, that maybe they would have known better. I don't know what part of our world they are in, or how much they are exposed to the "writings" of so many people today under the age of 40.  However, I see so much horrible writing and bad grammar everywhere I look in our country today, that I find it easy to believe someone inheriting something like a literature collection could  actually write so badly. The sad fact is, I see a fair amount of severely wrong word usage on this forum almost everyday, and some of it from our best and well educated regular posters. (And yes, I know I make mistakes, and I do tend to be a bit "wordy" and use run-on sentences! And I use "and" too much!) It is deplorable that our educational system has made "feel good" more important than the ability to write a cohesive sentence or understand the difference between "there", "their", and "they're". Those along with about twenty other common sets of homonyms (or sometimes preferred to be called "homophones"?) can be particularly annoying. 

Serious historians consider language to have been the single most important development or invention in all of human history. WORDS are supposed to MEAN something! Communication is one of the most important aspects of all human interaction, and proper use of words and grammar is essential for reliable communication. It is difficult enough dealing with the "English" language in all its regional forms. Add colloquialisms which can vary from one side of the mountain to the other, and even at best we have a mess.  When  so many people no longer even try to learn proper word usage, we have serious problems.

There I go, ranting again. Again Auburnseeker, saddened that this happened to you. Maybe you can find some law enforcement assistance? (But I wouldn't hold my breath for it?)

[Steve_Mack_CT]

Seems email address, communication record, and make model of car, general description of scumbags including woman is a better start than a lot of investigations.  You can likely prove an in person interaction despite he said she said.  If female accomplice has any priors and they find them, maybe the Police lean on them maybe she talks if he does not.  Anything can happen but if you dont report it they have 100% chance of getting away with it.  I would give it a chance at least.  I would think Walmart absolutely has his picture since you have time and place of the incident.  If you have a 5% chance of resolution I would report it.  Police may ID jerk from pic alone if he is known to them.  Did you say you have a cell number also??  Great attitude about it Randy but I would still pursue anyway..

Edited June 1, 2020 by Steve_Mack_CT (see edit history)

[SC38dls]

Reporting this to the police may be easy for any of us to say and understandably hard for you to do, but I believe you have already shown bravery, if you will, by posting this whole story. As others have said you may have a good case for police to follow up. You have a time line, possible pics of perp from Walmart security, knowledgeable info of car they were in ( you’re really very good on that type info), possible receipt for your cash withdrawal to show amount, email trail for IP address they used, and the fact you are a good tax paying citizen is all in your favor. You are good enough to accept the fact this happened and are willing to share that so we don’t have the same thing happen to any forum members.  I would think it would make it easier so others not on the forum would also be protected from turkeys like this. 
Randy, I don’t know you personally but I really respect what you have posted here to help us all. I hope this can possibly turn out ok but no matter what happens please know I think we have all benefited from your loss by the courage you have shown with this action. 
if I had the cash for your wheels and tires for Miss Vicky I would buy them for you. 

dave s 

[one-shot]

What keeps people civilized, (Civilized behavior/norms) (People of all diverse cultures) Its the fear of retribution by their peers. 

[auburnseeker]

What information other than whatever the Emails could provide and a picture of the guy if they could find it wearing a ball cap on the walmart camera as well as a receipt for a cash withdrawl is about all I have.  I never got to see the car or I would have had that to atleast go on and definitely pursued it.  When I pulled in, I called him and he said he was in Walmart with his wife and would be right out, then came out a minute or so later.  HE then went back in to get his wife.  No car to ID.  With that I would have had a solid lead.  With all the unrest in the country and looting even not far from Saratoga, I would rather the cops use their effort to bring those people to justice.

 

I have a mighty weak case at best.

Many say the emails would have tipped them off,  but many of the responses I get are the same way.  Many of the errors if you look are most likely from using a tablet without a real keyboard and the person sending it not caring about presentation.  Think not only about the ads but legitimate responses we have gotten from ads placed on facebook or Craigslist.  I've even had similar responses and questions through ebay questions.   Remember a Father that collected car literature might not necessarily be a well educated man that reads the classics but like some of us,  myself included,  appreciate the artwork and cars they grew up with.  Also remember many sons are nothing like their fathers.  Could even have been an adopted son.  I can tell you my adopted son is nothing like myself in ay way and even I am much different than my Father.   I just care how my responses and threads are written as I like to project myself as possibly being intelligent especially to someone I have just met.

 

Ironically I have had a similar ongoing buy between two brothers in Illinois that are fighting over their Father's collection.  I have bought a couple thousand dollars worth from the one and they shipped it in with me sending payment first a few times.

Anyone dealing in parts or other estate related collectibles all have strange stories of purchases they have made.  

 

Yes he will get away pretty much scott free, but I was hoping by putting this out there it might prevent someone else from getting scammed.  I can't imagine he is the only one pulling this scam.  So mention this scam to anyone you know that might have similar dealings with something they collect.

 

The shocking part is the face to face meet in a public place to perpetuate the scam.  If it was strictly an internet scam I probably wouldn't have proceeded and read into things deeper like I usually do. Maybe that's what caught me off guard the most wanting to meet up to complete the deal. 

 

Regardless of what you are buying or selling would any one of you expect a criminal to meet you in a public place to rob you in daylight with the likely possibility of being seen by a camera and especially one they weren't familiar with? They were more in my territory than theirs.    That's what I want to point out about how brazen the whole deal was.

 

Yes we have all had deals where we got screwed on cars we bought but atleast you had the car. 

 

 

[Steve_Mack_CT]

Scams are sadly a part of it.  Back around 79 or 80, friends put a deposit on a 36 Ford owned by a fellow hobbyist in CT.  Seller and buyer both had nicely restored late 30s Chevies but did not really know each other otherwise.  Still, some common ground.  My friend gave a 50% deposit after seeing the car at a local show, a project but sound enough, on a trailer.  Well, my friend ran into countless stall tactics from the seller when it came time to complete the deal.  The excuses continued for close to a year.  He would say he was delivering the car and never show, etc.  Started not returning calls.  This over somewhere's around $1,000.  Local guy as in living in tiny CT. They (my friend and his retired police officer dad) finally showed up unannounced, with tire irons in hand noting the creep's restored Chevy could suffer a lot more than a grand in damages and got said deoposit back.  It was expedient and the seller knew better than to threaten to call police himself.  What a ballsy SOB though.  I have heard of other stories with worse outcomes though Randy.  Sadly trust is common in our hobby but it seems to draw some real dirtbags as well.

Edited June 1, 2020 by Steve_Mack_CT (see edit history)

[Matt Harwood]

I would second those who encourage you to report it. Things like the IP address from which the E-mails were sent can direct them to a specific computer at a specific location and that's just the tip of the iceberg in terms of information that can be gathered. Another poster on this very message board started sending me anonymous threats from a free Yahoo account a few years ago. By providing his E-mails to the guys who do this every day, they were able to identify the computer and eventually the person sending them. There's a lot of information in those messages that isn't part of what you can see, and that information is far more important than the words themselves.

 

I also expect that this scammer has pulled this on other people--you are definitely not the first person he has targeted and robbed. There is undoubtedly a file on him with a police department somewhere, if not multiple departments, and because of that it is probably a higher priority for them than you might imagine. I guarantee you are not alone and there's probably some police person looking for him already. Your additional evidence could be the break they need.

 

The longer you wait, the less likely some evidence will be available to be collected (security footage, for example). I know it's a PITA to report it and you have serious doubts as to whether it will do any good, but I promise you are not alone. You posted here showing great courage and integrity with the hope that it would protect someone else from being taken in the same way. A police report will be FAR more effective at doing that and is much more likely to result in justice for you and past/future victims of this scammer.

 

Reporting it will do far more good than you think. Current situations notwithstanding, the gears of justice turn slowly, but they do turn.

[JFranklin]

If the theft isn't at the least reported you are not doing your civic duty. It is cheap and easy to do and you can then forget the incident. Maybe nothing will be done but at least there will be a report. It is our job to not turn the other cheek when it comes to crime.

[SC38dls]

Randy, all this advice is easy to give. You have the hard part of making the decision on what to do. Maybe if you say an absolute you will report it or you won’t and then you won’t be getting all of these opinions. Either way I believe the people on this forum will accept and support your decision. 
Hopefully  you can get back to enjoying your buying and selling the literature and not let this incident affect any of that process. 
dave s 

Edited June 1, 2020 by SC38DLS (see edit history)

[Bud Tierney]

I dealt in literature, vehicle and otherwise, as a hobbyist, for probably twenty years in the 80s and 90s period...in the dozens and dozens, maybe hundreds, of mail transactions, buying and selling unseen, I  can only remember one time when I sent an item and didn't get paid, and several times I had dealers send more than i was asking...consequently, it's all too easy to develop a kind of 'this's an honest bunch of people' outlook...

[Harold]

Randy,

 

Sorry to her of your situation.   Seems like there are low-lives hiding under every rock.

 

I'd file a police report and then you might be able to claim an uninsured loss on this year's income tax.   Talk to your tax guy to see if this is a viable alternative for you.

 

Harold

 

[auburnseeker]

Nothing to do directly with the scam, but I mentioned I had a Lady sending me in some literature without paying or even making an offer on it.  She said just make me an offer once you get it.  Well here are a few shots of just a couple of pieces.  Now of course these are some of the better pieces but alot of prewar stuff in the collection.  2 boxes full with a little over 200 pieces.  I already made her an offer she gladly accepted and she is happily working on the next batch.  

It does reassure you that there are still good trusting people out there and the few crooks just ruin it for the rest.

 

I also asked her if she came across any old car photos 40's and back I would be interested in those.  Maybe I'll be able to buy some we haven't yet seen to add to the ongoing vintage car photo thread.

 

[TAKerry]

Boy, what else can I say that hasnt been said. This really stinks. But I would def. contact the local police dept. Have you tried to contact the guy back by any chance, maybe with a diff. email or phone? 

 

[auburnseeker]

4 minutes ago, TAKerry said:

Boy, what else can I say that hasnt been said. This really stinks. But I would def. contact the local police dept. Have you tried to contact the guy back by any chance, maybe with a diff. email or phone? 

 

I only tried contacting him through the phones I had previously used.  Good Idea though.  Maybe still a way to track him in which he will answer.  He told me it wasn't his regular phone as he broke his regular phone.  He had most of the angles figured.  My guess is he tossed the phone though. It wasn't a regular phone registered to anyone in particular.  It just showed a location of Fort Anne , a farming town,  which is a few towns in the other direction.  

[TAKerry]

Yea, most likely a burner, i think i would still use a friends phone and call, if he answers just say your looking for so and so and you dialed a wrong number. I think if they really want to the police can pinpoint a phone signal.

[SC38dls]

Your right most of the people out there are good trusting souls. It’s a shame we all have to be so careful because of a few crooks and low life’s. Looks like the lady sent you some nice stuff, maybe enough to make up your loss and the wheels and tires will be in reach soon. 
dave s 

Edited June 2, 2020 by SC38DLS (see edit history)

[auburnseeker]

I believe she has several more shipments.  Must have been a pretty big collection.  Best part is I can buy just the older stuff, unlike other collections where i had to take all the late model stuff.  If she were closer i would just go over and take it all and figure it out later but since she has to ship it to me,  no sense in making her do extra work shipping stuff I'm not interested in. 

[SC38dls]

Attitude like that is why people trust you. Hope it works out to be a great collection. 
 

[6T-FinSeeker]

Sorry about the scam. 

 

I hope that woman and her collection turn out to be a great transaction.  

 

That thief may have taken your money, but you have your integrity, a positive attitude and an honest reputation.  I hope you file the police report.

[6T-FinSeeker]

On 6/1/2020 at 1:32 PM, JFranklin said:

If the theft isn't at the least reported you are not doing your civic duty. It is cheap and easy to do and you can then forget the incident. Maybe nothing will be done but at least there will be a report. It is our job to not turn the other cheek when it comes to crime.

 

Many years ago, back when I was in my 20s and still living in Brooklyn, someone stole all four wheel covers from my car during the night.  It was the first decent car that I had that wasn't a hand-me-down or held together with wire and tape and boy, was I mad.  That cop looked at me like I was crazy because I wanted to file a report -- for four stolen hubcaps!  Nothing came of it; I didn't expect anything would.  But I felt it was my duty to tell them and their job to know what was going on in their precinct.

 

  

 

Edited June 2, 2020 by 6T-FinSeeker (see edit history)

[wayne sheldon]

I know that many parts of the country are better than Califunny (I do call it that for long running reasons). It has been terrible here for decent people for decades! Almost forty years ago, I witnessed a multiple hit and run, driver likely drunk weaving all over the road in heavy traffic. First hit another car, then sideswiped me sitting in my properly parked old pickup (no serious damage). The driver was clearly a menace to everyone near him, so I called 911 (from inside the parts dealership I had just made a purchase). My thought was that just maybe they might have a patrol car nearby and could possibly stop him before doing serious harm to someone (like maybe hitting a pedestrian?). Instead, I got asked, and I quote, "Well, what do you want US to do about it?" They then told me that IF I needed a patrol officer to file a report for insurance purposes, they might be able to have one meet me in about three hours. So if I sound disgusted by law enforcement? I have now on this thread told two of dozens of reasons why.

 

I do think that maybe you should file a report, for good reasons given by others here. But in Califunny?

Remember, in politics, Califunny leads the nation, so brace yourselves. 

[darrell8Z]

Quote

Thinking about it, would it be possible to report this as a theft and make an insurance claim? 

 

I think it be okay, and my insurance agency would react on such situations.

[auburnseeker]

You guys aren't going to believe this,  but I have an ad out looking for a 2007-2009 Saturn Sky.  

I just got this reply.

 

Now the reply is from a John Emma according to the remail.  Very funny as the person that scammed me used Jenn Emma. and replied to the emails as John.  I would lay money that this is the same guy.  Now how can we draw him in for some well deserved retribution?   To add insult to injury,  I'm working on buying a substantial literature collection for alot of money and the seller and I are about $3000 Apart as to what they want and what I can afford. Sure would be nice to have that $3000 he screwed me out of to make the shortfall and seal the deal.

 

Below is his reply to my Ad.

 

2dc@reply.craigslist.org>

To:5b6b85e9346132c78c8fce66bf1bf2dc@sale.craigslist.org

 

Sat, Jul 11 at 7:26 PM

 

 

 

I do have one but I will require a 200 dollar down payment to hold it, if interested let me know, there are 2 others suppose to be coming to look

Edited July 12, 2020 by auburnseeker (see edit history)

[Billy Kingsley]

I hope you filed a police report. Can set up a sting operation now and take him down. 

[8E45E]

On 6/1/2020 at 12:18 PM, Bud Tierney said:

I dealt in literature, vehicle and otherwise, as a hobbyist, for probably twenty years in the 80s and 90s period...in the dozens and dozens, maybe hundreds, of mail transactions, buying and selling unseen, I  can only remember one time when I sent an item and didn't get paid, and several times I had dealers send more than i was asking...consequently, it's all too easy to develop a kind of 'this's an honest bunch of people' outlook...

I have had the misfortune of me being the victim of Canada Post losing orders on reputable book & literature seller.

 

I dealt with this well-known vendor who lived in a different city and sent me books I ordered on the honor system, where he enclosed the invoice with the order and I promptly sent him the remittance.  I had done business with him for a few years on that basis when ordered a particular book from him. He told me he didn't have it in stock, but would order it from the publisher and explained I would see it "in a few weeks" , which was okay with me. A 'few weeks' had passed, and I received a terse letter in the mail from this vendor starting with "I trust you received my order...", along with a second copy of the invoice.  I immediately telephoned him and told him I never received it in the mail at all!  Unfortunately, I was met with his long history of sending books and literature via Canada Post for 20 years and I was the FIRST one who ever did not receive a shipment.  (I never doubted his word about sending it the first time, as his reputation was excellent among the local vintage car circles here.)  He reluctantly sent me another copy, complaining about 'losing money' on the sale, etc.  The upset for me over all this was I maybe only saw this vendor in person twice a year at local swap meets where he had a table.  Before that incident, when I stopped at his table, we would have a good visit for 10-15 minutes before moving on.  After that episode, all I ever got from him when I attempted to visit at his table, was an 'I'm busy right now' response, treating me like I did something criminal to him, and he never did become receptive to me again, right up until his passing.  

 

Craig

Edited July 12, 2020 by 8E45E (see edit history)

[keithb7]

This scammer guy is a real POS. I’d wager its the same group of scammers. Setting up a sting would be awesome! Please consider doing so. Would Police be interested in helping facilitate a sting? You’d at least have a chance to get your $3K back!

 

Sorry to hear this happened. Good luck. I hope you can get some type of legal revenge. 

[auburnseeker]

I decided it's time to play with this guy.  For the record,  I'm "Bob".  

 

Same town , same owes brother some money deal. 

 

Here is his response when i told him I was excited and wanted to know a little more about the car. 

 

"Bob if you can get out here to Saint Johnsville today I can get it for you from my brother for cheaper than anywhere else, he needs cash to pay bills and is in great need so if you can get here I’m sure you would want it possibly 1,200"

 

"Sorry 12,000" (in a separate message) 

Edited July 12, 2020 by auburnseeker (see edit history)

[Mike C55]

A sting would be great!

[Harold]

These guys are making a career out of swindling people and there's every reason to believe they're armed.

 

Get the police involved NOW if you haven't already.  If your local PD pooh-poohs it, go to NYSP.

 

Better safe than sorry!

 

 

[SC38dls]

The police would probably be very interested in this as it is grand theft being over 10,000 and the fact it’s a multiple offense in the same region. Call the cops and ask, all they can do is say no your nuts!  You already know that you are as you are in the old car business!  So what do you have to loose. ?   
dave s 

[auburnseeker]

Just got a few more replies.

As a car guy the answers are good and offer info I didn't include in my wanted ad.  (see this is how it was very believable the first time)

 

"All I do know is he’s selling it due to Morgage issues and needs cash, where are you coming from??"

 

"He has taken care of that car for years and it it super clean"

 

"It is black with black leather interior also and been heated garages"
 

[trini]

Sorry for the lost. I am 84 years and had folks on this forum send me stuff without upfront payment.  I paid later. I just kept up the emails. We old folks in this business have something called ethics and honesty. The young ones , and the internet has created a generation of scums 

[keithb7]

Oh boy! The popcorn is on here now. Let us know how it goes!

Please pop this pimple of society.