Photo Caption Needed

[John348]

2 hours ago, padgett said:

Two things a Florida native does not pay for:

- parking

- event participation (unless 100% for charity)

 

I often go to a free event by a car museum that is usually 20-50 cars and range from a T-bucket to things that hide the engine under a cover, all are welcome and we can just talk car.

 

Among many other things, Floridians are not known to be good tippers either

[John S.]

A lot of car shows on Long Island have new Mustangs, Camaros,  and Challengers parked in the show field. I don't get it, but as others have said in this post, the fee justifies the car. There is a show at Old Westbury Gardens, that used to be one of the best  antique car shows in the New York area. Now they basically let anything in for a fee. It is what seems to be the way of many shows. That is what makes Hershey so special. We can get away from the Geeksters , and tiny trophy hounds. John

[padgett]

20% is not enough ?

[trimacar]

On 9/22/2019 at 9:00 PM, John348 said:

I was at a local show today on Long Island with some friends and had seen this car and all of it's trophy's on display, at first I thought it was a joke, but it was not!

 

 

 

When our four girls grew up and we had little control over what they said, they'd look at an old guy with a muscle or sports car and say "Sorry about your penis....."

 

Guess I may get deleted for that, but we always thought it was mildly amusing...

[8E45E]

12 minutes ago, zeke01 said:

 I do know that it is a Fiat of some description but I’m not sure of the year and model. A little help please. Thanks in advance. Zeke

A hint.  

 

Considering it was originally a concept car, and actually becoming reality under the previous regime, we can definitely THANK Fiat for allowing R&D on this car carry on unhindered; which allowed it to set a record for the FASTEST 1/4 mile time; even beating Bugatti Veyron SS.  

 

Craig

[Ronnie]

19 minutes ago, 8E45E said:

which allowed it to set a record for the FASTEST 1/4 mile time; even beating Bugatti Veyron SS

 

Watch this.

 

[Jack56C]

About four times a year I am asked to help judge show and shine car shows with about 300 to 500 cars in the show. I always appreciate the late models displayed with numerous trophys, as this allows me to distribute the trophys to other cars that are displayed with none.

[Matt Harwood]

3 minutes ago, Jack56C said:

About four times a year I am asked to help judge show and shine car shows with about 300 to 500 cars in the show. I always appreciate the late models displayed with numerous trophys, as this allows me to distribute the trophys to other cars that are displayed with none.

 

I'll admit that I do the same--when it's not a points competition in a marque meet, I am typically inclined to give trophies to cars that don't ordinarily win trophies. Not picking bad cars on purpose, but choosing unusual cars or cars that don't have widespread appeal. For example, we sponsor a local cruise night and when we attend, we get to pick an award winner. There are dozens of cars that have won multiple times because most of the sponsors just pick the same popular cars. My most recent pick was a plain-jane 1936 Oldsmobile sedan on blackwall tires. I'm sure everyone overlooks it and it doesn't grab anyone's attention, but it got mine because it looked pretty much the way it would have looked in, say, 1939. No frills, some signs of use, and it's driven. THAT is a great car and the guy who owns it was tickled to win an award because he NEVER gets a trophy.

 

And yes, there was a murmur from the crowd when it was announced. Too bad.

 

if you want awards to mean anything, you can't just hand them out like candy.

[1937hd45]

50 minutes ago, Matt Harwood said:

 My most recent pick was a plain-jane 1936 Oldsmobile sedan on blackwall tires. I'm sure everyone overlooks it and it doesn't grab anyone's attention, but it got mine because it looked pretty much the way it would have looked in, say, 1939. 

 

 

One of a few hundred thousand that delivered the owner or the sons of the owner to basic training for service in WWII, all those pre 1942 vehicles share that special distinction. 

 

 

Bob 

[padgett]

Tesla is AWD.

[John348]

18 hours ago, John S. said:

A lot of car shows on Long Island have new Mustangs, Camaros,  and Challengers parked in the show field. I don't get it, but as others have said in this post, the fee justifies the car. There is a show at Old Westbury Gardens, that used to be one of the best  antique car shows in the New York area. Now they basically let anything in for a fee. It is what seems to be the way of many shows. That is what makes Hershey so special. We can get away from the Geeksters , and tiny trophy hounds. John

 

John I remember going to Westbury with my father in the 70's and he was to embarrassed to park his nice driver Model A on the show field and paid to park it in grass. Looking back at it that Model A Coupe was better then 75% of the cars that they hand a first trophy to.

I seldom participate at anything local when I am Long Island now, unless some of my friends/club members are going then I will bring my car and hang out for awhile., and split around 12. A large majority of the cars are new cars and cheaply modified, and poorly executed cars.

 

I just want to know where the $25 went and who collected it? I know I will get suckered into going again, I will try to give them a check and see what happens..

 

 

Edited September 25, 2019 by John348 (see edit history)

[8E45E]

12 hours ago, Ronnie said:

 

Watch this.  (Tesla P100D vs. Dodge Challenger SRT Demon video.)

 

Yes, I saw it before.  I did NOT say the Demon still holds the record, but it did for a time.

 

I have always admired electric vehicles for their performance on the road.  The city where I lived stupidly got rid of their old trolley buses, where they out-performed their diesel brethren, especially on hills.  Even fully loaded with rush-hour passengers, the old trolley buses could accelerate and gain speed on hills while a diesel was stuck at 15mph dragging itself up the hill, well below the speed limit.   

 

Craig

[Restorer32]

We used to co-sponsor a local parking lot show until we realized that the shiniest red Camaro almost always won.

[8E45E]

17 minutes ago, Restorer32 said:

We used to co-sponsor a local parking lot show until we realized that the shiniest red Camaro almost always won.

That is why they have often have a 'seniors' class for previous years' winners.

 

There was a gorgeous '57 Chevrolet Bel Air two door hardtop and a museum-piece Rolls Royce Phantom III that consistently won awards at some car shows, and they got placed in a senior's class.   This earned those two cars a prominent spot at the show entrance with signage to state they were previous winners and didn't want them to 'drop out' just because were weren't going to award them anymore trophies.  We still valued their participation.

 

Craig

Edited September 25, 2019 by 8E45E (see edit history)

[Restorer32]

Was never the same "shiniest red Camaro" but it was always " a" shiny red Camaro or an occasional shiny red Chevelle.

[Locomobile]

13 hours ago, Ronnie said:

 

Watch this.

 

That is 707 hp? I don't think so.

 

My old 69 Pontiac Grand Prix SJ would have likely outran both of those slugs, my brothers modified 68 Roadrunner would have run circles around them. He blew the doors off of several "hot rods" in the muscle car era around Detroit with it. That was the only car I ever did 140 mph in, and that was the last time. 2nd gear would rip the glove box open and the maps would be laying in the back seat and apron under the back glass.

 

-Ron

[Ronnie]

1 hour ago, Locomobile said:

My old 69 Pontiac Grand Prix SJ would have likely outran both of those slugs, my brothers modified 68 Roadrunner would have run circles around them. He blew the doors off of several "hot rods" in the muscle car era around Detroit with it.

 

You are kidding, right?  You're calling factory stock cars that can run 10.80 in the quarter of mile slugs? You're saying a stock '69 Grand Prix could do better than them in a 1/4 mile?  You should have took that GP and Roadrunner to the drag strip to find out what they could really do.  I think you would have been really disappointed if you were expecting either one of them to run in the 12s much less the 10s. 

[Matt Harwood]

1 hour ago, Locomobile said:

 

That is 707 hp? I don't think so.

 

My old 69 Pontiac Grand Prix SJ would have likely outran both of those slugs, my brothers modified 68 Roadrunner would have run circles around them. He blew the doors off of several "hot rods" in the muscle car era around Detroit with it. That was the only car I ever did 140 mph in, and that was the last time. 2nd gear would rip the glove box open and the maps would be laying in the back seat and apron under the back glass.

 

-Ron

 

Is this a joke?

 

There's old car fast and there's new car fast, and they aren't anywhere near the same. The biggest, nastiest, gnarliest Hemi from the '60s or early '70s is about the same as a 4-cylinder Mustang today. We remember them differently, but they weren't anywhere near as fast as today's cars. Heck, a Honda minivan can run low 14s and is faster than 80% of all the muscle cars of the era. My wife driving her Ford Focus ST pulled several car lengths on me in a 1968 Corvette L89 (that's a 427/435 with aluminum heads) and stayed there up to about 90 MPH. I have an SCCA competition license, she's just a nice lady who happens to know how to drive a manual transmission.

 

A 1969 Grand Prix wouldn't have a prayer against a Hellcat or Tesla. The race would be over before the Pontiac's TH400 even shifted to 2nd gear. Sure, it definitely felt fast at the time, but I'd recommend that you go find a buddy with a Hellcat and ask him to scare the sh*t out of you. If you survive, you'll understand that what we remember about "fast" old cars and today's seriously fast cars isn't a fair comparison.

 

 

Edited September 25, 2019 by Matt Harwood (see edit history)

[edinmass]

I agree with what Matt said..............

 

 

Want to go fast, come on down and see the shop toy run in the 6’s............

 

The pick up truck we take to the parts store is in the 8’s.    (1956 GMC). 😀

Edited September 25, 2019 by edinmass (see edit history)

[PFitz]

The biggest, hottest engined 60's, stock  muscle cars were lucky to run in the 14's.

 

In the early 70's I helped with fuel systems on a friend's 69 D-modified 302 Camaro that ran in the low 11's. This was far from a stock car. His best day he beat all in his class and by the end of the day some of the C-modified class too until the last race of the day the clutch gave out. That was the only day he broke into the upper 10's... and only  because he used a freshly modified thicker wall marine 302 that he found in a marine salvage  yard on Staten Island that could be bored out a bit more than a stock 302.

 

When I hear people look at cars from that era and say. Gee they sure don't make them like they used to.....  I quietly say to my self, Thank God.  My '08 3.8L Ford has more horse power than my '72 5L AMX had.

 

Paul 

[8E45E]

3 hours ago, Matt Harwood said:

 

Is this a joke?

 

There's old car fast and there's new car fast, and they aren't anywhere near the same. The biggest, nastiest, gnarliest Hemi from the '60s or early '70s is about the same as a 4-cylinder Mustang today. We remember them differently, but they weren't anywhere near as fast as today's cars. Heck, a Honda minivan can run low 14s and is faster than 80% of all the muscle cars of the era. My wife driving her Ford Focus ST pulled several car lengths on me in a 1968 Corvette L89 (that's a 427/435 with aluminum heads) and stayed there up to about 90 MPH. I have an SCCA competition license, she's just a nice lady who happens to know how to drive a manual transmission.

 

A 1969 Grand Prix wouldn't have a prayer against a Hellcat or Tesla. The race would be over before the Pontiac's TH400 even shifted to 2nd gear. Sure, it definitely felt fast at the time, but I'd recommend that you go find a buddy with a Hellcat and ask him to scare the sh*t out of you. If you survive, you'll understand that what we remember about "fast" old cars and today's seriously fast cars isn't a fair comparison.

 

 

Its obviously a joke.  In the link in the first post here--> https://forum.studebakerdriversclub.com/forum/your-studebaker-forum/stove-huggers-the-non-studebaker-forum/110181-i-need-a-gas-station-attached-to-me-69-charger-promo-vid  , the announcer raves about the 0-30 and 0-60 times, and the 'under 14 second 1/4 mile time' a '69 Charger made.  As stated, if a 4-cylinder Honda can't achieve that, there's something wrong with it.

 

Craig

[Locomobile]

Gee whiz fellas take it easy it was known fact in the late 60's a stock roadrunner with 383 would run low 11's right out of the factory, if you think or remember it differently, oh well. Add a Holley, Headers, Muncie rock crusher  and some meats on the rear and it was a definite force to be reckoned with. Lots of people have roadrunners today and engines replaced with 383 station wagon engines which were a dime a dozen, not even close in comparison. I chuckle when I hear people talk smack about old Mopars. 68 and 69 Roadrunner had a special limited production engine, it was the only Mopar that used it. 440 heads, crank and cam. 

 

Lots of Chevy and Ford guys hated Mopar back then, because they got blown off the road by them. I seen it happen over and over and over. 429 Mach1 Cobra jets, 396 Chevelle's, nothing would run with the old ridgerunner. 

 

None would run better than 14's? Yeah ok..

 

-Ron

[8E45E]

31 minutes ago, Locomobile said:

 I chuckle when I hear people talk smack about old Mopars.

Some here seem to want to 'smack' the new Mopars which started this thread.

 

Craig

[Ronnie]

2 minutes ago, Locomobile said:

it was known fact in the late 60's a stock roadrunner with 383 would run low 11's right out of the factory,

 

They sure did slow down when they left the factory and hit the drag strip. Below is a summary of the full article about testing a '68 Roadrunner straight out of the factory.  Their test results were what I would have expected.  I don't know if you are joking about the Roadrunner's preformance or not but what you are saying about it is absurd.

Vintage Muscle Car Test:         Motor Trend Wrings Out the 383 Plymouth Road Runner in 1968

"Their test car was equipped with the 335hp 383 V-8, three-speed TorqueFlite automatic transmission, and a Sure-Grip rearend (with either 3.55 or 3.23 gears; the story said the former, the spec chart the latter). As delivered it had “mileage of 00003, or something equally ridiculous. When we arrived at Orange County International Raceway, the odometer had yet to turn 600 miles, yet we ran consistent 6.8s from 0 to 60, 9.6 from 0 to 75, and a 93-mph quarter in 15 seconds flat.”

 

 

 

[Buffalowed Bill]

Judging has been an integral part of the hobby since it began. The French Concourse d Elegance dated back to the days of the horse drawn carriages. Some people need the adulation others couldn't care less. It seems to me the older we get the less we need the spotlight. I can sit here and say I don't care about judging any more, but that wasn't always the case, and given the right set of circumstances who knows how I could be tempted. It's certainly not about me, it's all about the car.

 

Judging still has it's place, but little of the judging I see today does the job of vetting a car for the quality of it's restoration,  it's originality or for it's rarity. Some of the watered down judging today would be laughable if it wasn't so sad. People's choice awards have their place, but they do more to judge the audience then the car.

 

Bill

Edited September 25, 2019 by Buffalowed Bill (see edit history)

[Locomobile]

This discussion reminds me of conversations that got us in to street races back then. Boy, were they shocked The guys with 429's and 440's couldn't understand how they were outran by the smaller 383.

 

-Ron

 

 

[Locomobile]

12 minutes ago, 48Firetruck said:

The 1969 NHRA Winternationals had Funny Car top speed of 8.14 @ 181.4 MPH. Top Fuel set a national speed record of 6.68 @ 229.5.

 

There is this thing called the "cube law" As speed increases, with the same mass and wind resistance, the power to attain it increases exponentially.

 

100 mph with 80 hp, 200 mph, takes about 8 times that much hp.

 

-Ron

[padgett]

You are right, a fast 69 GP with 4 speed, 390 hp 421, posi, and a 3.90 could get into the 13s on a good day but back then the limiting factor was tires. Also that was 1320 and not 660. There were 10 second cars but had little resemblance to stock.

[jeff_a]

Someone was saying the Dodge Hellcat gets rated at 707 h.p. The Jeep Grand Cherokee Trackhawk has the same motor and horsepower. If we're just going to have cars fresh off the dealer's lots in a one-upmanship instead of a vintage iron car show, why not one of those. I know there's nice engineering there and shiny paint, but when I see a one-year-old car at a car show I think so-what-who-cares. The one exception to that for me was going to a concours where Rolls-Royce, McLaren, Maserati, Lamborghini, Ferrari, and Bentley were each invited to have 2 cars and a sales booth scattered around the Auburn, Packard, Cord, Ford, Triumph, Buick, Bugatti, and Cadillac examples there from the 1910 to 1970 era. Their cars weren't competing for awards and were probably there more as financial sponsors than entrants. 

Edited September 26, 2019 by jeff_a (see edit history)

[JACK M]

I went up to the local Portland Cruise last night.

There was a new Vette parked right across from me that I had to look at all night.

A ways away towering above most was must have been a brand new Chevrolet Pickup.

Lifted with some wheels.

I think there is some kind of language about at least three major modifications required. (unless its old).

This is a pretty big deal for a weekly show, I would guess over 1500 cars last night.

Only five bucks for car driver and one other guest. All goes to local kids charities.

Lots of scenery, but I could have gone to a Chevy dealership to see the new stuff.

 

FWIW, the 383 has  shorter stroke than the 440 making it able to turn faster.

I have not heard of the special factory engine that was a 383 with 440 heads crank and cam.

But in later years we would use a 400 block (biggest bore of them all but the shorter stroke of a 383) with some machining one could put a 440 crank (longer stroke) in one of those with pretty good results.

The 400s weren't much is stock form.

The only thing that wont interchange between the low deck blocks (361, 383, 400) and the high deck blocks (413, 440) are the intake manifolds. I don't think there is any difference in the heads as far as bolt on. But there are some with smaller combustion chambers (closed chambered heads) These would be the performance heads. I used a set of these in a 440 with 12-1 pistons that gave me about 14-1 compression.

Had to run 120 gas but was to be reckoned with on the dirt tracks around here. Very good low end torque.

[padgett]

Bet somebody would gripe if a Merlin was dropped into a big Bentley.

[Locomobile]

To throw another log on this..

 

The 11 second claim for 68-69 roadrunner was talked around by many people and even the folks at Ramchargers which is an old Hot Rod shop around Detroit and they did know which cars were running what times at Detroit Dragway which was right near there store. I never seen it for myself, but I heard a lot of people talk it, and Ramchargers would have not been saying that if they hadn't seen it. Prior to the internet, the local Hot Rod shop was the hub for info.

 

The 68 and 69 Roadrunner had a special engine only used those two years in the Roadrunner only, Plymouth labeled it "The Roadrunner engine". The standard 383 was rated 270 hp, the RR engine was rated 335 hp and it was even claimed that Plymouth de-rated the engine, so teenagers could get insurance. I know, put your boots on.

-Ron

[John_S_in_Penna]

To give a different perspective on the subject:

I grew up after the muscle-car era was gone, and

after the muscle cars were all rusted away and

not around any more.  So I appreciate later antiques,

and the high-performance cars seem merely

like juvenile immaturity to me.  After all, the speed

limit was 55 m.p.h., so where could anyone drive

120 miles an hour?   (Apologies in advance to

all muscle-car fans!)

 

Give me a big highway cruiser with a soft velour interior.

Maybe I'll even take a nap in the back seat!

[padgett]

Had a '67 Cad Fleetwood 60 Special Brougham (picnic tables in the back) that had an eminently sleepable rear seat. Also were a number of GM cars and a TranSport with 3800s (still have a Reatta) from the NMSL days that do remarkably well at today's speeds.

 

Have heard it said that the NMSL was really a plot to sell Japanese cars in this country - drove several back in the day that would buzz you to death at 60 mph.

 

"after the muscle cars were all rusted away " not in Central Florida or several other parts of the country.

" After all, the speed limit was 55 m.p.h., so where could anyone drive 120 miles an hour ? " Many autocrosses that were not on public roads for one. Drag strips for another. The NMSL did not kill competition. (bracket racing did).

 

In this shot I was touching the ton at a speedway. There were always places...

 

 

 

[Locomobile]

6 hours ago, John_S_in_Penna said:

so where could anyone drive

120 miles an hour? 

 

Same places they do it now, wherever they can get away with it. Street racing has never been legal anywhere, but I can take you out on Telegraph Saturday night and they still turn many lights into a drag strip. Back in the 60's and 70's at least around here, the cops were pretty cool about it, hell we used to get stopped for drunk driving and they would just tell us to get home and stay there.

 

Those were fond memories back in the 60's in the "muscle car era", prior to all the emissions BS every American company was putting out respectable running strong cars, about 1970 was the end of it. The 60's were possibly the best and most interesting decade this country ever experienced. Rock and Roll British invasion, JFK, Viet Nam, the hippy movement, Women's Lib and mass bra burnings, halter tops, mini skirts, no incurable STD's, "if it feels good, do it", parties, the civil rights movement, the war protests, the music, Jimi Hendrix, Janis Joplin, Bob Dylan, first man on the moon, I was a young teenager, I wondered how could it get any better than this? it didn't, 1970 was like flipping a switch and our society has been kind of sucky ever since. I see these kids nowadays listening to The Who, Rolling Stones etc, That music is like 50 years old :)

 

-Ron

[8E45E]

14 hours ago, padgett said:

 

" After all, the speed limit was 55 m.p.h., so where could anyone drive 120 miles an hour ? "

 

 

 

 

Germany, on the Autobahn; and you still can today, but only in the 'slow' lane.

 

Craig

[Paul Dobbin]

Out in the boondocks a "Car Show" means any motor vehicle.  The 1914 Model T can be parked next to a 2018 Corvette and the next car in line be a barn find 1984 Chevy Station Wagon.  The Former Sheriff's orange metalflake 55 Chevy always wins peoples choice because everybody respected Homer.   Still fun to meet to local car buffs.

[padgett]

Many in corporate or the military have "I love me" walls. People always stopped at some items, "Futility Aircraft Corporation" on the wall and "Ordovician Trilobites of Argentina" in my bookshelf.

[PFitz]

Many people have walls  with things they are proud of. Doctors & Lawyers with their college degrees, family photos, sports trophies, major accomplishments, etc..  But how many drag all that, or even pictures of themselves on magazine covers, around to public gatherings and set them up for display ?  There is a difference. One is things to be proud of, the other is a cry for attention.

 

Paul

Edited September 27, 2019 by PFitz (see edit history)

[Steve Moskowitz]

I am sorry but I fail to see an issue with any of this.  I personally do not like it (displaying trophies), never have done it and think it stands a good chance of causing another car damage or someone tripping over them.  New car, old car....I am just happy people are attending car shows and hopefully will get more engaged in the hobby.  Lot of bashing here where we can just look the other way.  If it makes this guy and whatever club he is showing the car happy what real harm does it cause any of us.  This is a huge big hobby, with people who have their likes and dislikes.  Sort of like why they make so many forms of ice cream!