Has anyone heard anything, good or bad, about American Classic radial tires?

[Mars]

Has anyone heard anything,good or bad, about American Classic radial tires? I bought four white walls 5:00/19 for my 30 Desoto. Then I heard there were problems with the radials. I bought them through Coker. I haven't even unwrapped them so I have options. Thanks 

[Matt Harwood]

Diamondback Classic. New tires with whitewalls. Not tires that may have been sitting on the shelf for a few years and whitewalls that turn yellow. 

[Marty Roth]

I have had COKER RADIAL AMERICAN CLASSIC on several cars with excellent results-

No yellowing,

no balance problems

no warranty issues,

All with current date-codes --  no old tires,

many, many thousands of cross country highway miles driven.

 

I'm surprised that Matt had an issue. My only issue with them was promptly and properly resolved

 

Now I've ordered a set of their Bias-look Wide White Radials and expect the same good results

I've also been told that Diamondback Classic does NOT support AACA

COKER ABSOLUTELY SUPPORTS AACA  --  good reason to use their fine products

[oldford]

I've had American Classics for some time now, and I love them. As stated above, no balancing problems, very comfortable ride, white walls don't yellow... I did not even need Bleech-White to get them clean and white. I would definitely buy again...

 

Frank

[Robert G. Smits]

I only use Diamondback Classics on my drivers.  The tires on the 41 are 10 years old and still look great but will be replaced because of age.

[Mars]

Where would I find the date on the tire?

[edinmass]

Don’t put radial tires on a car like that.......the rims can’t take the flexing and loading of a radial. It’s a BAD idea. Fix the car to as new condition and the bias ply tires are fine. Too many people try and find a solution for a problem that doesn’t exist. Post s picture of the car please......would be fun to see it.

[Marty Roth]

Your car would drive nicely on original style Bias-Ply tires - no need for radials on that vintage.

 

We would enjoy seeing pics of your car

[60FlatTop]

1 hour ago, edinmass said:

Too many people try and find a solution for a problem that doesn’t exist.

 

Thinking about that list of solutions is going to be like having an old song stuck in my head for the rest of the day. But it's gonna make me smile.

[mercer09]

Bernie......

 

goin outta my head, over you goin outta my head, day and night- night and day and night..................!

 

hows that for a starter?

[Lebowski]

2 hours ago, Mars said:

Where would I find the date on the tire?

 

There's a 4 digit number on the tire next to the wheel. The first two digits are for the week and the second two are for the year. For example, 2308 would mean the 23rd week of 2008....

[Bhigdog]

One would think that a major tire maker would insist that repro,s with their name on them have a high level of quality control. Then again i bought 4 goodyear chinese trailer tires that blew out the first year towing........bob

[Matt Harwood]

Now that I see how early the car is, I agree with the others that radials probably aren't a good choice. Later '30s cars with steel wheels, no problem, but an early car like that may not benefit from them and it could cause a lot of extra stress.

[Mars]

I checked the dot number, they were made about a month ago. I'm feeling good about them, going to use them. I'm not racing, just cruising around at 35-40 mph. I think they'll be fine.

[edinmass]

21 minutes ago, Mars said:

I checked the dot number, they were made about a month ago. I'm feeling good about them, going to use them. I'm not racing, just cruising around at 35-40 mph. I think they'll be fine.

 

 

Depending on wheel type(Snap ring, split rim) your going to take you life in your hands..........and maybe some others............while in college I worked for Michelin Tires racing devision, managing the USA delivery and supply chain for all the races. I also managed the BMW tire recall from the mid 80's. I worked hand in hand with the engineers designing tires for the track and GT vehicles............I have been in the hobby almost fifty years, and have driven pre war cars countless miles.............radials on that car is NOT a good idea.

[padgett]

Tires are near a holy war here but since all of my cars are post-war and have steel or alloy wheels I use premium radials and have since the last century. My 1970 Buick GS got dogbone Dunlops on 15x7 wheels when it arrived at the dealer and won autocrosses even after a lion bit a chunk out of one. YMMV.

 

ps four digit tires were made after 2000, before that they were three digit since the FMVSS required labeling - plain in the 80s and with a diamond in the 90s.

Edited July 30, 2019 by padgett (see edit history)

[edinmass]

2 minutes ago, padgett said:

Tires are near a holy war here but since all of my cars are post-war and have steel or alloy wheels I use premium radials and have since the last century. My 1970 Buick GS got dogbone Dunlops on 15x7 wheels when it arrived at the dealer and won autocrosses even after a lion bit a chunk out of one. YMMV.

 

Not so much of a war, as honest diffrences of opinion. Post war wheels usually are fine for radial tire use....MOST of the time. Pre war wheels are often rusty, damaged, and have structural problems often covered over by paint, filler, and sometimes fatigue and other issues that often aren't appearent to new hobbyists. Over chroming snap rings can cause catstrophic failures. Just jamming a radial tire on a rim from pre 1970 isn't a good idea unless you have taken the wheel down to bare steel and inspected it, and almost no one bothers. 

[DB26]

Not to hyjack the thread, but does anyone have an opinion of the quality of Lucas tires out of Long Beach, CA? When I bought my Dodge Brothers the PO had put them on a year earlier. 

[Mars]

Were they radial? What type of wheels? Did they work out for you?

[edinmass]

2 hours ago, 48Firetruck said:

Radial tires were invented in 1948, were standard equipment on nearly half of all U.S. production by 1973 and industry standard in 1982. If you have solid steel rims (NOT split rims or snap rings) that are in good shape, radials will do just fine... the world won't end and your car won't be a hazard to everyone around as some might suggest. Having driven on both, it would have to be some very special circumstances for me to ever buy bias tires again.

 

 

The gentleman was asking about putting them on a 1930 automobile. Post war cars I see no reason not to run them if that's what you want........pre war is a whole diffrent kettle of fish.

[edinmass]

4 minutes ago, Mars said:

Were they radial? What type of wheels? Did they work out for you?

 

I have installed twelve sets of tires on pre war cars in the last three years...........while I like Lester's and many others do not,  right now most of them are out of stock. All twelve sets have been Firestone and if you do the math, 12 x 6 = 72 tires in total, and I had three defects all with less than 100 miles on the tire.........all structural failures.......also, installed one set of 6 goodyears, and had two defects. Quality on the tires the last five or six years has been much worse than they use to be. Keep you eye on any set you install.

[Mars]

Why would a company like Coker sell a tire this size, for my wheels, if they would potentially cause a problem? I called them and they assured me they are ok. The wheels are very strong, I can't see what would break.

[Spinneyhill]

If you do a little search on these fora, you will find a number of discussions on radials vs bias ply tires on old cars. You should also read the references on the different way radial tires put the load into the rim compared to bias ply tires. For a start, there is more force on the beads. I have considered them for my Dodge 8 with wires, but I am frightened the locking rings have been polished to a smaller size than originally and the lands they fit in are thinner than they were, so will not do it. I have already had a crack in one land on a rear wheel on which the PO had fitted 6.00 tires (originally 5.50).

 

@edinmass has been in this business for a long time and if he says no, then no it is.

 

Unless you are on a one-way road and cannot crash into anyone else when you have a failure, so it is only you and your family in danger,.....

[Mars]

Given all the opinions out there, I'd like to hear from someone who has actually had or known of an actual incident concerning these tires. Opinions are just that. Again, Coker has reassured me, unless I'm racing.

[edinmass]

 

They sell cigarettes and cigars...........they are good for you. Just ask the tobacco companies.

 

I won’t waste my breath.............and comment on past nightmare situations with rim failure. 

 

Hundreds of of millions of cars were built, and driven billions of miles with bias ply tires. 

 

Drive you car faster with the radials, take the risk of wheel and steering failure. (You also get the extra advantage of driving your car too fast for road conditions and probably over stressing the braking system at the same time.) The steering box been apart and checked for stress cracks , damage, bearing issues? How about the pitman arm and drag link.............the list is endless. Radial tires load the entire system, including the frame of the car in ways difficult to predict. There is NO advantage to them, but lots of disadvantages. 

 

Want it to drive fast, smooth, and effortlessly.........buy a new Kia.

[edinmass]

Quote

 

And......as for rim failure.......saw three of them last year on tour.............this is a NEW wheel, rim, and snap ring. Gives you confidence doesn’t it? Remember, this was probably a 6-8 thousand dollar wheel, what caused the failure? The owner had six new wheels on the car, I can assure he was NOT happy. And money was not an object on this car.

Edited July 30, 2019 by edinmass (see edit history)

[edinmass]

Best guess.........incorrect plating on the rim or snap ring.......I didn’t get too close, as that thing can kill you if it lets go. The only safe option on that type of failure is to ice pick the tire to let the air out. Interestingly I looked for 500-19 radials (original poster tire size) on the website and didn’t see any at all........I wonder if the original poster mis read the size? Last I knew only European manufacturers were making antique car radial tires larger than 16 inch. I was told that Michelin and Excelsior stopped making them.

 

Rim failure is becoming more common on all rims, regardless of bias or radial tires, just because of metal fatigue. The cars are all getting older.....and along with that are hard to predict issues. Not many people like shooting guns that are a hundred years old......especially at maximum load........kind of like the radial tire issue, if everything is like new and perfect, your probably 90 percent safe.........but when was the last time you saw a car that was restored perfectly? Think about it, a 1947 post war car is almost 75 years old now.

Edited July 30, 2019 by edinmass (see edit history)

[Matt Harwood]

48 minutes ago, edinmass said:

And......as for rim failure.......saw three of them last year on tour.............this is a NEW wheel, rim, and snap ring. Gives you confidence doesn’t it? Remember, this was probably a 6-8 thousand dollar wheel, what caused the failure? The owner had six new wheels on the car, I can assure he was NOT happy. And money was not an object on this car.

 

In fairness, that's a bias-ply tire that still seems to be intact. It's a good example of things on old cars being unpredictable but it is not evidence of a radial causing a failure. 

 

I do, however, agree that early '30s cars with lock rings probably shouldn't use radials simply because of the radial "bulge." That's definitely going to stress the lock ring in ways that it was not designed to handle. I suspect that the 19-inch radials that Coker is selling are designed for Model As, which don't use the lock ring. I also wouldn't use them on anything but steel wheels, not wood spoke wheels. 

 

I am ordinarily a big proponent of radials, but as I mentioned, I think they're best on cars with solid wheels and that means later '30s at best. Just because they fit doesn't make them the right choice and I do think the risks on an early car are real. The radials we're discussing are brand new on the market and while Coker is selling them, they don't have much of a track record yet. I do think it's only a matter of time before someone puts them on a wood-spoke rim or a rim with lock rings that have been improperly installed and something bad happens. 

It's also worth noting that early '30s cars probably won't benefit much from radials. Later cars have significantly more sophisticated suspensions and braking so it can make a difference. Going with bias-ply on an earlier car will not only look right but won't degrade the ride and handling in any way. While the merits and debate are largely academic in this case, the bottom line is that you can't go wrong with correct bias-ply tires and they will look right and be almost completely indistinguishable from radials on the road.

[Mars]

You say use wires but this case would contradict that. And the tire is fine. Being a carpenter, I have a lot of faith in that much wood.

[edinmass]

The failure on the lock ring with the bias tire was not determined. Possibly hydrogen embrittlement or incorrect grinding and polishing. I was trying to figure out why there would be a 500-19 radial offered, then when Matt said Model A it made sense. With the lower speeds and light weight of the Ford, it would probably be safe. Watching a 6000 pound car on tour last summer with radials, I inquired to the owner and asked  his thoughts. They made new heavier rims and spokes for the car. The owner is a very respected engineer in the automotive world, and he seemed to like them. He did complain about tube failure from the tube rubbing inside the tire. Seems they solved it using metric radial tire tubes from overseas. Tires were Excelsior brand. Looked a bit off as far as size and aspect ratio. I was told they are now out of production. I think unless you have a car that takes the same size tire as a Model A, the 17-20 inch radial tire question is moot as they are no longer available. Drive safely...........Ed

[Mars]

I’ve had two summers on my American Classic radials. They have been great! Smooth ride, handles nicely. Highly recommended.

[Steve9]

I’ve owned both 1935 and 1936 Dodges and have been warned of their weak rims. I’ve always ran bias ply tires and following the advise of people who’ve learned by experience is the reason why I won’t stray to the radial side. Thanks.

[padgett]

I used to figure on cracking a right front wheel every weekend when autocrossing the Sunbird, once crossed the finish line with the whole center broken out. Of course those were $5 Vega GT 13x6 steel wheels and the Sunbird had a SBC in the nose. Found the A60x13s needed 50 psi in the front tire to corner best. Won a lot of autocrosses (SCCA Solo II F/S).

 

[SC38dls]

I have the Coker bias ply tires on my 38 Studebaker. I’ve put over 6000 miles on them in the last 3 years with out a single problem. It rides great. I even did 15 laps on the Indianapolis 500 track (I was the only one that never lifted) and they were fine. 
The car never had radials in it and it’s 82 years old (older than me by 8 years and is probably going to outlast me) so why change now? 
Have fun

 

[Stude Light]

Put Diamondback Auburn Radials on my 1939 LaSalle replacing a set of BF Goodrich Silvertowns this year.  Rides so much better and got rid of wandering at higher speeds (usually cruise 55-65). I also got rid of the tubes but kept that bias-ply pie crust edge and beauty bar.  To be fair I only have a bout 1000 miles of experience so far but am really happy with the purchase (thanks again Matt!).

Scott

[Fossil]

I'm glad to see this topic up for discussion as my 30 DeSoto CF is going to get new tires this winter. From what I've learned here they will be Bias Ply. Just can't make up my mind whether they should be white or black walls. 

[Stude Light]

9 hours ago, Fossil said:

I'm glad to see this topic up for discussion as my 30 DeSoto CF is going to get new tires this winter. From what I've learned here they will be Bias Ply. Just can't make up my mind whether they should be white or black walls. 

When I was deciding on whether to put whitewalls or blackwalls on my Studebaker, I took a photo of it with the black walls it had, then just did a little work in Powerpoint to add whitewalls and make a decision.  I even posted the two photos in the forum for some feedback. It wasn't hard to decide to stay with blackwalls. Maybe try that.

Scott

 

[Matt Harwood]

Mock-ups are a great idea and give you a good idea of the look in case you haven't seen anything similar. I've been doing some with the '35 Lincoln, which needs tires, and have decided that I'm going blackwalls if I can find some 17-inch chrome trim rings (someone pointed out it looks like a Nazi staff car without them and I tend to agree--too dark).

 

 

 

 

 

[TAKerry]

Maybe a dumb question, but I did not start driving until 1980. Can someone explain what the difference is between bias ply and radials? I am pretty sure I have only driven cars with radial tires. Probably the oldest car I have driven is a 53 chevy but that was eons ago.

[padgett]

Can start here but are just different means of building a tire. Just don't ask about Bias Belted.