Estate Planning Question

[nick8086]

Estate Planning Question:

 

Has any one put an antique car in a LLC?

 

What is the pit falls of doing this?

 

Cars - 250K to 700K.

 

 

[Larry Schramm]

For what reason to put them in an LLC?

[1939_Buick]

2 hours ago, nick8086 said:

Estate Planning Question:

Has any one put an antique car in a LLC?

What is the pit falls of doing this?

Cars - 250K to 700K.

A question for a lawyer and an accountant

Not random no bodies on the internet.

[nick8086]

2 hours ago, Larry Schramm said:

For what reason to put them in an LLC?

 

Just got a few Item from the family Trust..

 

Yes 1939 Buick. I called a lawyer today.. To review my estate planning..

 

For what reason to put them in an LLC?  Larry - I just want to hide them.

 

Maybe the question I may ask why does any one in business set up an LLC in the first place.??

 

 

LLC is a separate legal entity, the objective is to transfer title from the individuals to the LLC thereby replacing the individuals as the targets of any lawsuit arising out of the ownership of the property.

Edited December 22, 2017 by nick8086 (see edit history)

[Grimy]

It might be difficult to get antique auto insurance for cars placed under a LLC, a business...

[nick8086]

31 minutes ago, Grimy said:

It might be difficult to get antique auto insurance for cars placed under a LLC, a business...

That may not be a big deal.. They changed the name from my dad to dads trust. For the last five years.. He was not a live.. But the bill was paid.. 

also it got change to the banks name.. Two years ago..

 

If a bank can have the name on the insurance  why not a LLC ?

 

Only the owners of the LLC could drive it??

 

 

 

 

 

Edited December 22, 2017 by nick8086 (see edit history)

[victorialynn2]

It was years ago, but many of my father’s antique cars were in his business name when he operated it. 

 

Things do change, and I do agree that it’s best to ask your accountant and lawyer the benefits and drawbacks of placing things in an LLC. It is illegal to practice law without a license, as I am taught in real estate. Also having a mother who was a CPA available to me, I can tell you most people don’t know much about tax laws, but they will assume they do. Even a CPA’s daughter is surprised by answers she gets from her mother on that topic!

[John_S_in_Penna]

9 hours ago, 1939_Buick said:

A question for a lawyer and an accountant

Not random nobodies on the internet.

 

For working out the details and proper contract language, yes;

but Nick is asking whether anyone else here has done it,

and our experience if we have.  Interesting question,

because a corporation is a vehicle for continuity of ownership.

Until he gets to the professionals, maybe someone here has

insight from doing it.  Maybe someone here knows of a 

lawyer or accountant--perhaps one who has worked with

large collections--with that very specialized experience.

 

If Nick were asking garage-construction tips from others' experience,

I'm sure we could give him help other than, "Ask a licensed contractor!"

If he were asking friends about their experience in antique-car investing,

we could tell him much more than, "Consult a financial advisor!"

Edited December 22, 2017 by John_S_in_Penna (see edit history)

[Pomeroy41144]

My 1937 Ford was owned by the deceased owner's auto related business according to the title. 

 

I had to pay extra tax because I was buying it from a "dealer" rather than a person. 

 

 

[Grimy]

My concern is and was that a LLC (i.e., limited liability corporation) may be a business in the eyes of insurance companies and thus may not be eligible for the inexpensive collector car policies we enjoy.  So although it's fine to ask us whether any of us have done it, the question should be posed to THREE professionals:  attorney, tax professional AND the company which insures the vehicle.  I'd ask each of them the advantages and disadvantages of such as move.  Further, with the estate tax exemption being doubled for 2018 and the future, that's another consideration.

[Zimm63]

Not sure how you can "hide them" in an LLC that you own.  The ownership of the LLC would be an asset of your estate, I believe.  

 

[cahartley]

For what it's worth I think placing things of value that are not in the scope of a related business would be viewed by the courts as a thinly veiled attempt to protect personal belongings.

I can't recall if it was Yellow Cab or Checker Cab who took to making each cab a separate corporation to limit their exposure in the event of accidents and so on.

They were taken to court didn't win the case.

[Steve Moskowitz]

Nick, my question is are you really meaning a LLC or is it a Living Trust? you are refering to

[Doug Novak]

Maybe you can just add their names to the Titles as joint owners?

[Digger914]

18 hours ago, nick8086 said:

Estate Planning Question:

 

Has any one put an antique car in a LLC?

 

What is the pit falls of doing this?

 

Cars - 250K to 700K.

 

 

I'm not an Ivy League educated attorney, but I do have a sheep skin for legal studies from a known university and the first two things you learn when you enter the study of law is that that you don't practice law without a license and you can now be held liable for any legal opinion you utter. So my advice is that you talk to several different attorneys, in several different areas of practice, in several different firms.

 

 

[alsancle]

1 hour ago, Digger914 said:

 you can now be held liable for any legal opinion you utter.

 

 

 

You sure about that?

[John_S_in_Penna]

"Joe, what do you think caused my vapor lock?"

"I can't answer:  I'm not a licensed mechanic!"

 

I think the summary of this thread so far is:

None of us have the answers or experience that Nick is asking.

So we advise, go ask a professional!

 

But surely someone among our Forum family--who hasn't

answered yet--has SOME experience with an antique car

being owned by a small company!  Hemmings Motor News,

for instance, had had their sedan deliveries at various car events.

[Bhigdog]

This is like asking an attorney's forum for expert advice on setting the gap on a new set rings. Might someone know? Maybe. Would you trust that advice if offered. I hope not.........Bob

[victorialynn2]

John, my father did and they were insured with an antique carrier because he was limited how much he could drive them. But who knows the business details of someone else’s, even a parents, business and what has changed since then? Insurance and tax stuff is constantly changing and varies by location, so even with first hand experience, it would be kind of useless info. You’d still have to research what applies to YOUR situation. Kind of like how title issues vary by state. 

Edited December 23, 2017 by victorialynn2 (see edit history)

[victorialynn2]

6 minutes ago, Bhigdog said:

This is like asking an attorney's forum for expert advice on setting the gap on a new set rings. Might someone know? Maybe. Would you trust that advice if offered. I hope not.........Bob

Exactly, plus a procedure to fix something is quite different than wading through the many possible scenarios in an estate situation. 

 

The great thing about this forum is how everyone is willing to help, but some things could create more issues for the asker since the details would be very specific to thier situation. 

Edited December 23, 2017 by victorialynn2 (see edit history)

[Digger914]

1 hour ago, alsancle said:

 

You sure about that?

 

The detailed what and how for people considered to be professionals in any field of endeavor are a bit longer than my short statement, but the best answer to this question is simple common sense yes.

 

 

[victorialynn2]

2 hours ago, alsancle said:

 

You sure about that?

Realtors get sued (and loose), all the time for giving legal or tax advice or anything not pertaining to thier specific area of expertise. 

[Xander Wildeisen]

That is why you drink beer while giving advice, Gives you an excuse to fall back on that you were under the influence when you said that. 

[nick8086]

10 hours ago, Zimm63 said:

Not sure how you can "hide them" in an LLC that you own.  The ownership of the LLC would be an asset of your estate, I believe.  

 

I should of not use the word Hide.. I should of used protect the cars..

[nick8086]

6 hours ago, Steve Moskowitz said:

Nick, my question is are you really meaning a LLC or is it a Living Trust? you are refering to

 

No it was an LLC.. This is the second time I inherit something.. Now what to do??

 

The first time I inherit something i used the money and bought a rental house.. It was a great investment.. about 13% return..

 

[nick8086]

10 hours ago, Grimy said:

My concern is and was that a LLC (i.e., limited liability corporation) may be a business in the eyes of insurance companies and thus may not be eligible for the inexpensive collector car policies we enjoy.  So although it's fine to ask us whether any of us have done it, the question should be posed to THREE professionals:  attorney, tax professional AND the company which insures the vehicle.  I'd ask each of them the advantages and disadvantages of such as move.  Further, with the estate tax exemption being doubled for 2018 and the future, that's another consideration.

I called today.. You can change the name.. and keep your inexpensive collector car policies. Your LLC  you can not  put advertising on the car  and be covered.. FYI..

Edited December 23, 2017 by nick8086 (see edit history)

[alsancle]

12 hours ago, Digger914 said:

 

The detailed what and how for people considered to be professionals in any field of endeavor are a bit longer than my short statement, but the best answer to this question is simple common sense yes.

 

 

 

Your statement was opened ended and patently not common sense.   It implies that any conversation between two people that wanders into the discussion of the law could put one or the other person in legal jeopardy.   

 

As for the topic of this thread,  why would you put 250-750k worth of cars into an LLC?   I'm trying to come up with scenarios in my head where it would make ANY financial sense.

Edited December 23, 2017 by alsancle (see edit history)

[trimacar]

18 hours ago, Doug Novak said:

Maybe you can just add their names to the Titles as joint owners?

 

Joint ownership is always a possibility when passing vehicles on to others.  Just be careful how the joint ownership is stated.

 

You can put "Larry Smith AND Susan Smith", which means that both would have to sign title to transfer to someone else.  Thus, Larry dies, Susan still has to go through estate to sell.

 

You can put "Larry Smith OR Susan Smith", which means EITHER can sign title and sell.  Thus, if Larry dies, Susan can do whatever she wishes with car with no estate to deal with.  However, this also means that while both are living, EITHER one can sell that prized 19hundredsomething Downtheroadmobile.....so trust is needed...not a legal trust, trust between the two people...

 

I'm not a lawyer, this is not legal advice, just common interpretation of what the DMV will let you do....

[Frantz]

Google the backwards to get your answers better than asking the direct question. Generally it seems if you move the assets during litigation then most protections are fraudulent. However, protecting assets ahead of time is okay. Frankly we talk about this with life insurance since it's not considered an asset creditors can touch. I'd think a trust would be the best vehicle for this for you, but certainly check with your attorney. Is there a reason you've thought to do an LLC compared to a trust, or are you just exploring options? Trust are common for estate planning, I've never heard of setting up an LLC for estate conservation. You could say it's a bandwagon logical fallacy, but I'd be willing to bet the bandwagon has reason to it, I just don't know what that reason is.

[mercer09]

rather then worry about LLC's and lawsuits- why not call Chubb and buy a blanket policy for a million or two and forget all of the other jargon?

 

There is always more then one way to skin a cat as they say.

[Xander Wildeisen]

There is a very large story that is going to be told out here. It will show how a person/business can be entrapped and pushed into fraud. And it will show how people are used as a means of moving money through them for the growth of a City. There is a lot of kool aid in what you are looking to do. What people tried to get me wrapped up in with the cars, would place them in Personal Property Trust agreements. The State got caught out here. Be very careful with what you have set up right now, and how it over laps on to what you are talking about doing.  Shielding things from sight, is a red flag for fraud. I exposed fraud out here, and I have paid a price for doing it. I was told I was a target, told I will be shown how it works. An Attorney told me justice and the law are going in different directions, I do not believe that. Contact your local NBC, ABC and CBS stations, and ask them to tell the story in Idaho. 

[A. Ballard 35R]

Original reason for putting cars into LLC  has yet to be clearly answered. All sorts of ideas have been thrown out but one wonders if the question is about tax implications (inheritance, capital gains), avoiding probate, future ownership questions or perhaps protection from possible divorce. When the answers to these questions are known then the appropriate professionals can offer advice.

[Digger914]

7 hours ago, alsancle said:

 

Your statement was opened ended and patently not common sense.   It implies that any conversation between two people that wanders into the discussion of the law could put one or the other person in legal jeopardy.   

 

As for the topic of this thread,  why would you put 250-750k worth of cars into an LLC?   I'm trying to come up with scenarios in my head where it would make ANY financial sense.

 

The key word in my statement is professional and my statement was intentionally open ended. 

 

In conversation with your mechanic while you're getting the squeak in your brakes checked your mechanic asks you how you are and your mechanic tells you what he does for his heartburn. You rely on your mechanics statement, but doing what he does puts you in the hospital. In conversation with your doctor while you're in getting treated for the bleeding ulcer that put you in the hospital, you mention your squeaky brakes to your doctor and he tells you what he does when his breaks squeak. Now you rely on your doctors statement, but doing what your doctor does gets a tree stuck to the front of your car.

 

Common Sense says that you don't trust your life to a casual mechanical statement made by a medical professional or a casual medical statement made by a mechanic and that any conversation between two people that wanders into the discussion of the law could put one or the other person in legal jeopardy, if what worked for one doesn't work for the other.   

 

As to the topic of this thread; Being fully aware of my own personal situation, I wouldn't use an LLC to do, what I can only assume is intended by the limited information presented.   

Edited December 23, 2017 by Digger914 (see edit history)

[alsancle]

2 hours ago, Digger914 said:

 

The key word in my statement is professional and my statement was intentionally open ended. 

 

 

You never used the word "professional" and I honestly have no idea what you are trying to say.     Your example did not help me to understand.

[SC38dls]

1 hour ago, alsancle said:

 

You never used the word "professional" and I honestly have no idea what you are trying to say.     Your example did not help me to understand.

See Post #21. It all sounds like leaglize so they can justify a large fee. 

Dave S 

[alsancle]

Ok.  I figured it out.   Perhaps I need to read more carefully in the future.

 

His first post was intended to say that lawyers can be held liable for their advice about law.   The rest of us are free to give as much legal advice as we feel like.

 

As for this thread,  anyone twisting themselves in a knot to avoid estate taxes on 250-750k is wasting their time.  

[rustybottom]

One would think that one would turn to family to aid in the answers to these type of  questions since there are probably more than this author in the estate.

This estate subject has been in previous threads.

"Hide" may be the operant word.