What's your thought ?

[bobg1951chevy]

I own two '51' Chevys, both are in very nice condition.

 

Being that I have had and continue to have knee concerns, neither '51 is being driven.

 

Both sit in my heated / cooled garage.

 

The one I have owned for 17 years has been "resting" in the garage for eleven long years ..... just waiting to see the sunlight again.

 

After doing preps to the 235 six, such as oil, filter, plugs, points, etc., I ran the oil pump with an electric drill, wife watched the mechanical oil pressure gauge climb up, all is well.

 

I have a new "stock type" fuel tank and a new fuel tank sending unit on this '51, added 4 -5 gallons of non ethanol to the empty tank.

 

4 to 5 gallons = 1/4 tank on this 16 gallon tank.

 

I removed the air cleaner, sprayed  ether into carb, with throttle open ...... released the open throttle to closed  position ( idle position) ...... replaced air cleaner and engine started on first crank ...... after eleven years.

 

I restarted with additional ether squirts, as listed above ... it runs fine for 5  seconds on ether, then stops when ether is gone.

 

No fuel has come to the carb, after 4 or 5 attempts of running .....  at 5 seconds each.

 

Do you think I could continue to squirt ether into carb, with air cleaner off ...... to keep her running for a longer period, with hopes that fuel would begin to travel through lines to the carb ?  

 

Bad idea or not,  with this ether squirt theory  ?

 

Am I encouraging a fireball ?

 

Fuel line is in good condition, connects to fuel tank at lower right front corner of tank.

 

Now thinking of jacking up rear of car slightly,  to permit fuel to move from tank into the fuel line ...... heading towards engine.

 

Fuel filter is the glass bowl variety, no fuel is seen yet in the glass filter bowl or carb.

 

Any good thoughts are welcome.

 

I have never allowed a car to sit for so long, so this is new for me.

 

Thanks.

[Taylormade]

Your fuel pump diaphragm may be dried out.  Disconnect the gas line, rig up a container to gravity feed gas to the carb with a clean hose.  Then put the end of the disconnected fuel line into a container.  Start the engine using the gravity fed gas.  See if the fuel pump is pumping gas into the container.  No gas pumping - bad fuel pump or clogged line or filter.

[Hudsy Wudsy]

Or, conversely, disconnect the fuel line going into the carburetor, hold it over an empty can and have your wife crank the engine over. If gas isn't coming out of the fuel line, after firing up five times briefly, assume that your fuel pump diaphragm is cracked and needs replacing. There's also a chance that the flexible line that goes into your fuel pump has developed a crack, but that is less likely. Remember to be cautious with flammables in your garage.

[bobg1951chevy]

1 hour ago, Taylormade said:

Your fuel pump diaphragm may be dried out.  Disconnect the gas line, rig up a container to gravity feed gas to the carb with a clean hose.  Then put the end of the disconnected fuel line into a container.  Start the engine using the gravity fed gas.  See if the fuel pump is pumping gas into the container.  No gas pumping - bad fuel pump or clogged line or filter.

I do have a rebuilt  pump that has been sitting a  shelf in the garage. 

This pump has not been on a car since it was rebuilt, but I'm thinking its been on the shelf in the same heated / cooled garage for 5+ years.

Thanks for your idea Taylormade.

[bobg1951chevy]

44 minutes ago, Hudsy Wudsy said:

Or, conversely, disconnect the fuel line going into the carburetor, hold it over an empty can and have your wife crank the engine over. If gas isn't coming out of the fuel line, after firing up five times briefly, assume that your fuel pump diaphragm is cracked and needs replacing. There's also a chance that the flexible line that goes into your fuel pump has developed a crack, but that is less likely. Remember to be cautious with flammables in your garage.

Thanks H.W.

 

[Hudsy Wudsy]

Older rebuilt fuel pumps are plentiful, but you can't necessarily rely on them to be compatible with modern gasoline. Yours may have been rebuilt years before you acquired it.  I'm not telling to not use the fuel pump that's been on the shelf for a while. Just be mindful that if it was rebuilt before a certain point in time, it might start up and work for a while and then fail.

Edited August 10, 2017 by Hudsy Wudsy (see edit history)

[PFitz]

It's been close to 20 years now that reputable fuel pump rebuilders have switched over to alcohol tolerant diaphragm material. Quite often these days, a pump not delivering fuel is not a problem with the fuel pump diaphragm.

 

Some brands of gasoline have additives that can make the fuel pump's check valves stick shut when the gas dries out. And, the low pressure of the fuel pump is not enough to pop them loose. Try pulling a little bit of fuel through the pump with one of the brake bleeding vacuum kits. Make sure the gasoline only goes into the kit's catch-can, not the hand vacuum pump.

 

Same gasoline can stick the float needles shut. The  "intravenous"  gas can idea should tell you if gas is getting through to the carb.

 

Paul

Edited August 10, 2017 by PFitz (see edit history)

[Dave39MD]

When starting my 31 Chevy for the first time with everything dry it took forever to get fuel to the pump and carb. Nothing was wrong it just took way longer than I ever expected.

 

Dave

[mercer09]

I did the same, let my 51 chevy wagon sit four about 5 years.................

 

there was a rust clog in the rear of the line, limiting fuel flow to the rebuilt pump I just installed.

[Digger914]

I'm a big fan of using the air compressor to suck gas from the tank to the back side of the fuel pump and after the line is clear and gas is flowing, priming the pump with a little suction on the output side with the engine cranking. Gas fumes are explosively flammable and if your line isn't plugged, suction by compressed air will put some fumes into the air. Needles to say well ventilated, no open flame furnace, garage heaters or smoldering things like tobacco while doing this.

 

My dad would let an old car that wasn't quite old enough to be valuable sit for years at a time collecting dust without ever turning a key or even opening the garage door. My brother has a slightly different way of letting his cars sit for years at a time, he opens the garage door and uses them as shelves and  storage cabinets until he gets the urge to do something with the car. Observation has taught me that putting a new pump on a plugged line is a waste of time and materials. Experience has taught me that getting gas flowing through the existing pump is usually enough to get and keep gas flowing to the carb, which also usually needs some cleaning after sitting for years.

[captndan]

STOP using the ether!  Every puff wipes oil off the pistons and valves.  Sure way to burn up an engine.  Best idea now is to hang a gas can.  Then go find the real problem.

[auburnseeker]

I use a little gas in a squirt can.  I don't like the ether either.  Squirt a little in, then hold the choke shut.   A few squirts is usually just enough.  Don't load it right up.  I have also used a spray bottle like one for windex as it kind of vaporizes the gas.  Of course this is sprayed directly into the throat of the carb then the choke held closed.

The spray bottle Works especially well on updraft carbs.   I worked on wooden boats for a while and they were never run and always had weak batteries from the bilge running all the time. 

[JACK M]

2 hours ago, captndan said:

STOP using the ether!  Every puff wipes oil off the pistons and valves.  Sure way to burn up an engine.  Best idea now is to hang a gas can.  Then go find the real problem.

 I agree with this. If an engine doesn't fire on gasoline there is something else wrong.

If you want to prime the carb use gasoline or WD40.

If you have a small squirt can and a helper you can keep an engine running for longer periods of time while waiting for the fuel pump to do its job.

If you have a boat tank or a lawn mower tank you can gravity feed an engine for as long as the gas lasts.

DO NOT USE ETHER EVER TO START ANY ENGINE !

KEEP THAT FIRE EXTINGUISHER HANDY !!

 

Just my opinions.

[60FlatTop]

Most vacuum testers come with a small bottle for brake bleeding. On a long term stored car I will disconnect the fuel line at the carb and pull a suction on the system. This draws fuel from the tank and through the pump. I look at the clarity of each bottle. It can be rusty from the line on the first tow or three dumps. Once it clears you have a positive supply of fresh fuel at the carb. No need to grind the starter pulling it up there. A little gas for a prime and it should go after one or two tries. If not, point resistance can get high after sitting, file a little.

 

I wouldn't use ether, either. And always put the spark arrestor/air breather back on when trying to start it. A little fire in the enclosed carb is not a big deal. When it spits all over the engine you are porked.

 

Single barrel carb, only take one spider body in the jet to mess that one up.

Bernie

[CarlLaFong]

3 hours ago, Digger914 said:

I'm a big fan of using the air compressor to suck gas from the tank to the back side of the fuel pump and after the line is clear and gas is flowing, priming the pump with a little suction on the output side with the engine cranking.

How do you suck with an air compressor???? Mine blows

[plymouthcranbrook]

A remote hand starter switch eliminates the need for another person to crank the engine

[Alfre]

Try putting air pressure on the fuel tank through the fill pipe, use a rag   and a blow gun this way you will not over pressure the tank.

Too suck with a compressor use a blow gun held at about a 45 degree angle to the fuel pipe and blow across the the pipe away from the pipe.

Al 

[Rusty_OToole]

It can take quite a while for the carb to get fuel if the fuel pump and fuel line are dry. Try pouring about half a shot glass full of fuel down the carb and start it up, should run a few seconds. It may take 5 or 6 tries to get the fuel up.

 

The vacuum pump is an excellent idea if you have one. Another thing I have done, is cut a circle out of an old inner tube with the valve in the middle. Then clamp this to the filler pipe with a hose clamp. Air up with an air hose, if the rubber bulges you have enough  pressure, a couple of pounds will do.

[46 woodie]

I agree as to stop using the ether, all you are doing is "washing" your oil from where it needs to be. I would first disconnect the fuel line from the tank and carb and make sure it is clear. Over the years sediment can build up. Also, as has been stated, check all rubber fuel lines. I had one that looked perfectly fine but when I took it off the inside expanded and would not allow fuel flow. If all checks out I would remove the fuel pump and check the diaphragm, could be cracked from sitting or rotted from the fuel. Don't use compressed air from the line back to the tank because all you are doing is pushing junk back to the tank. I'm betting fuel pump.

[Digger914]

2 hours ago, CarlLaFong said:

How do you suck with an air compressor???? Mine blows

 

Same way you use an air compressor to suck paint through a cup gun or air brush.

I find that clamping to the fuel line with an angled T and adding a chunk of line on the output side helps control where the gas goes.

[CarlLaFong]

37 minutes ago, Digger914 said:

 

Same way you use an air compressor to suck paint through a cup gun or air brush.

I find that clamping to the fuel line with an angled T and adding a chunk of line on the output side helps control where the gas goes.

So, you're pretty much building a flame thrower. No thanks

[bobg1951chevy]

5 hours ago, JACK M said:

 I agree with this. If an engine doesn't fire on gasoline there is something else wrong.

If you want to prime the carb use gasoline or WD40.

If you have a small squirt can and a helper you can keep an engine running for longer periods of time while waiting for the fuel pump to do its job.

If you have a boat tank or a lawn mower tank you can gravity feed an engine for as long as the gas lasts.

DO NOT USE ETHER EVER TO START ANY ENGINE !

KEEP THAT FIRE EXTINGUISHER HANDY !!

 

Just my opinions.

Jack ..... You are saying WD 40  is volatile enough to prime the carb ?

 

[bobg1951chevy]

15 hours ago, Hudsy Wudsy said:

Older rebuilt fuel pumps are plentiful, but you can't necessarily rely on them to be compatible with modern gasoline. Yours may have been rebuilt years before you acquired it.  I'm not telling to not use the fuel pump that's been on the shelf for a while. Just be mindful that if it was rebuilt before a certain point in time, it might start up and work for a while and then fail.

In my case, I sent a fuel  pump to a VCCA member who did rebuilding of carbs and fuel pumps. The pump has sat on my shelf, since that rebuild 5 + years ago.

[bobg1951chevy]

12 hours ago, Dave39MD said:

When starting my 31 Chevy for the first time with everything dry it took forever to get fuel to the pump and carb. Nothing was wrong it just took way longer than I ever expected.

 

Dave

I will prime the carb with gasoline to see if my existing pump, on the car,  will  get fuel through the fuel lines.

[bobg1951chevy]

8 hours ago, captndan said:

STOP using the ether!  Every puff wipes oil off the pistons and valves.  Sure way to burn up an engine.  Best idea now is to hang a gas can.  Then go find the real problem.

OK, thanks, no more ether.

[Dave39MD]

Good luck and I know you know not to get the starter to hot by cranking away. I really like the idea(s) of getting the fuel up to the pump with the vacuum pump. 

 

Dave

[bobg1951chevy]

5 hours ago, 60FlatTop said:

Most vacuum testers come with a small bottle for brake bleeding. On a long term stored car I will disconnect the fuel line at the carb and pull a suction on the system. This draws fuel from the tank and through the pump. I look at the clarity of each bottle. It can be rusty from the line on the first tow or three dumps. Once it clears you have a positive supply of fresh fuel at the carb. No need to grind the starter pulling it up there. A little gas for a prime and it should go after one or two tries. If not, point resistance can get high after sitting, file a little.

 

I wouldn't use ether, either. And always put the spark arrestor/air breather back on when trying to start it. A little fire in the enclosed carb is not a big deal. When it spits all over the engine you are porked.

 

Single barrel carb, only take one spider body in the jet to mess that one up.

Bernie

Good info, thanks.

[bobg1951chevy]

Just now, Dave39MD said:

Good luck and I know you know not to get the starter to hot by cranking away. I really like the idea(s) of getting the fuel up to the pump with the vacuum pump. 

 

Dave

Yes, priming the carb is better than cranking needlessly.

[bobg1951chevy]

I will give this a whirl again on Friday, am hoping it works out well.

Because of using ether, I'll feed some WD 40 or Marvel Mystery oil into the cylinders tonight .... then let it sit until tomorrow.

[Vila]

I will admit this, I did not read all the postings, they were sucking the life out of me.

 

When you mention that the gas line is in good condition are you referring to the outside only?  Could be clogged and still look good on the outside.

 

I had a similar issue with my 1933 Chevrolet a little over ten years ago when the glass pump bowl would not fill and the car would not start except with starting fluid and another time over 25 years ago had a similar issue caused by another issue.

 

The first issue was caused by a clogged fuel line from the gas tank to fuel pump.  I ended up draining the tank, disconnecting the fuel line at both the tank and pump ends and used compressed air to blow all the junk out of the line from the pump end.  As I recall I even had to run some safety wire into the line to break up the junk at the gas tank end of the line and blow it out again.  I ended up also removing the gas tank to clean and seal.  I reinstalled the tank and reconnected the fuel line and the car ran fine.

 

For the more recent issue it was the seal between the fuel pump and glass bowl.  I am not sure where the glass bowl is with reference to flow of gas in a 1951 Chevrolet fuel pump, but for my 1933 the gas enters the pump, goes down into the glass bowl then exits and gets sucked into the pumping section that includes two one-way valves before exiting the pump.   With no seal, the gas pump would only suck air and the glass bowl would not fill.  

 

My 1962 TR4 has a pump very similar the one found in my 1933 Chevrolet.  In fact it has the exact same diaphragm and glass bowl.  For that pump I had the following issue several years ago.  One of the two one-way valves had a small piece of junk keeping one of the valves slightly opened and would not allow the pump to pump gas.

 

 

[bobg1951chevy]

" When you mention that the gas line is in good condition are you referring to the outside only?  Could be clogged and still look good on the outside. "

 

The fuel tank is new, the fuel line from the tank to the fuel pump is new. 

The fuel pump is not new, the fuel line from the fuel pump to the carb glass bowl filter is new, the carb is rebuilt from a VCCA member /rebuilder.

[SC38dls]

Turn the gas shut off valve back on. Sorry couldn't resist 

[Digger914]

7 hours ago, CarlLaFong said:

So, you're pretty much building a flame thrower. No thanks

 

Well Carl,  it's probably a good thing you're in Southern California where everyone drives electric cars and the ground is so dry that there is almost no chance of stepping in a puddle and being electrocuted at the car charging station. All the cars I drive still run on gas and at least once a week I risk life and limb to use a much larger, electric powered version of this flame thrower to fill my one of my cars with gas.

 

If exposing gas to sparks from static electricity, open flames and smoldering embers couldn't lead to catastrophic results, gas stations wouldn't be required to post no smoking signs and signs telling people to turn off engines before filling. If transferring gas from pump to container was child's play, there would be no minimum age for operating a gas pump and small children could be carrying empty cans to the self serve and dragging the full cans home after pumping in gas for the lawnmower..

 

Whether pumping gas into a tank, or syphoning gas from a tank into a can, handling gas comes with a certain amount of risk and certain precautions should be taken. If you have a risk free way to move gas from container to container, the world is waiting to hear it and it's been waiting a long time.

 

 

[mrspeedyt]

i sometimes use a small plastic squeeze bottle and squirt gas into a CARBURETOR fuel bowl vent to fill the bowl with fresh gas. then put back on the air filter. any minor dribbling of gas just helps the engine start faster. usually with filling the fuel bowl the engine might run about a minute. sometimes the fuel system might respond by then.

 

 

Edited August 12, 2017 by mrspeedyt
CARBURETOR (see edit history)

[auburnseeker]

If we explain how to prime the fuel system any more,  this is going to change into the "changing a light bulb thread" 

[JACK M]

15 hours ago, bobg1951chevy said:

Jack ..... You are saying WD 40  is volatile enough to prime the carb ?

 

 

Not sure about priming a carb, but will fire off if there is good spark and compression.

Gasoline would be my first choice but sometimes WD40 is more within reach.

[CarlLaFong]

10 hours ago, Digger914 said:

 

Well Carl,  it's probably a good thing you're in Southern California where everyone drives electric cars and the ground is so dry that there is almost no chance of stepping in a puddle and being electrocuted at the car charging station. All the cars I drive still run on gas and at least once a week I risk life and limb to use a much larger, electric powered version of this flame thrower to fill my one of my cars with gas.

 

If exposing gas to sparks from static electricity, open flames and smoldering embers couldn't lead to catastrophic results, gas stations wouldn't be required to post no smoking signs and signs telling people to turn off engines before filling. If transferring gas from pump to container was child's play, there would be no minimum age for operating a gas pump and small children could be carrying empty cans to the self serve and dragging the full cans home after pumping in gas for the lawnmower..

 

Whether pumping gas into a tank, or syphoning gas from a tank into a can, handling gas comes with a certain amount of risk and certain precautions should be taken. If you have a risk free way to move gas from container to container, the world is waiting to hear it and it's been waiting a long time.

 

 

I don't know what living in California has to do with the idiotic idea of rigging up the contraption that you have recommended. My original post would lead someone, with a modicum of reading comprehension, to see that I am concerned with safety. Nowhere was the topic, of moving gasoline from one container to another, broached.  BTW, all of my vehicles run on gasoline or Diesel. I will admit that I use the crazy, California method of putting fuel in them. We have these places here that we call gas stations. We give the guy a number of fun tickets and, magically, fuel issues forth from the pump at the island. No wacky flame throwers needed. In the rare event that I have to transfer fuel from one vehicle or implement to another, I find that a good old siphon hose still works. Because of an incident, in my shop, several years ago where I set myself on fire from the waist down, I do have a bit more respect for flammables. You may continue to use your device as you please. See you on the 5 o'clock news

[captndan]

Remote starters can be time bombs.  Unless you have a solenoid in the starter wiring don't use a remote.  They usually have only 14 ga. Wire.  Ok for a solenoid but on a 300 amp starter it's a fire starter.

[bobg1951chevy]

6 hours ago, auburnseeker said:

If we explain how to prime the fuel system any more,  this is going to change into the "changing a light bulb thread" 

I have problems with the light bulbs, as well.

[Vila]

Let us know what the fuel problem is when you get it figured out.  I would be interested in knowing the solution.

 

Quite a few people on car forums get their issues figured out and never respond to let everyone know what the actual issue was and how they ended up fixing it.