AACA Museum & AACA, What is Going On

[AC Fuhrman]

None of this sounds like 'good' news on any front.

 

I just looked at a survey of 'things people collect,' top three were coins, comic books and stamps!

Cars came in at #12.

Soooo haven't found a new hobby just yet.

 

[R W Burgess]

7 minutes ago, AC Fuhrman said:

 

Cars came in at #12.

Soooo haven't found a new hobby just yet.

 

Andy, I would say that cost is the major factor in having cars listed as number 12. The purchase price is generally the smallest part of having an antique car. In my case I generally double the investment costs of my cars while keeping them usable. Oh, and I have no time for any other hobbies. :-)

[Guest Timothy Kelly]

Time will tell.........but if things don't happen to go well for the AACA Museum as time unfolds, maybe the the land and building it occupies will become available.  Who knows what might happen then.

 

Note to "oldcarfud" and his interest in the brass era Model B Ford that has been on display at the AACA Museum with the other "letter series" Fords.  There's no need to gather your dollars as the AACA Museum never owned those Fords.  Moreover, those Fords will sometime in the not too distant future reappear in another Museum.

Edited January 3, 2017 by Timothy Kelly (see edit history)

[Larry Schramm]

1 hour ago, R W Burgess said:

Andy, I would say that cost is the major factor in having cars listed as number 12. The purchase price is generally the smallest part of having an antique car. In my case I generally double the investment costs of my cars while keeping them usable. Oh, and I have no time for any other hobbies. :-)

 

The last time that I checked unless you own a trailer queen... You drive them then the cycle is 1. Drive them, 2. they break, 3. fix it. 4. return to 1 and repeat the sequence as long as ownership is retained and you drive it.

[AC Fuhrman]

1 hour ago, Larry Schramm said:

 

The last time that I checked unless you own a trailer queen... You drive them then the cycle is 1. Drive them, 2. they break, 3. fix it. 4. return to 1 and repeat the sequence as long as ownership is retained and you drive it.

 

2 hours ago, R W Burgess said:

Andy, I would say that cost is the major factor in having cars listed as number 12. The purchase price is generally the smallest part of having an antique car. In my case I generally double the investment costs of my cars while keeping them usable. Oh, and I have no time for any other hobbies. :-)

 

I'll never leave - what I was getting at was this Club/Museum issue has taken some of the joy out of it for me - at least temporarily! I care deeply about both and support both. It's like a family fight. 

[padgett]

Guess some people have nothing else to do this time of the year (was 80F here today, had the AC on).

[Doug Novak]

Looks like everything is out in the open and clearly shows the direction we're going. The only thing left to do now is get it in the Magazine for the entire Club to see where we stand, and why.

 

Good job to our Club's Board of Directors, Thanks!

[Bhigdog]

Just received a 3 page, both sides, letter from the museum BOD's telling their side of the story complete with links to correspondences with the AACA club. Can't help but wonder: What's the point of paying to draft and send 30,000 letters if it's a done deal?.......................Bob

[Doug Novak]

1 hour ago, Bhigdog said:

 Can't help but wonder: What's the point of paying to draft and send 30,000 letters if it's a done deal?.......................Bob

 

Unless the Museum changed dramatically their position in favor of what the Club was trying to accomplish, I have to agree with you totally. We need to move on and do it on our own. I've lost faith that the Museum will help the Club in any way that we can protect the Club and control our expenses with the relocation and expansion of the  HQ and Library.

[John_S_in_Penna]

I hope they will post it on their website.

We have heard the AACA's position, and it makes sense;

but in 450 postings we really haven't heard much

of the museum's thinking.

 

Just as in a marriage separation, it helps to be sympathetic to both sides---

[Bhigdog]

I'm assuming they sent the letter to all AACA members. Can't think of a reason I'd be singled out...........................Bob

[John_S_in_Penna]

Are you on a specific mailing list for the museum?

If not, we all should be getting that letter as AACA members.

 

I looked on the museum's website, and there was an

additional News posting there;  but it was password-protected

specifically for AACA Museum members, so I could not read it.

Edited January 10, 2017 by John_S_in_Penna (see edit history)

[Joe in Canada]

3 minutes ago, Bhigdog said:

I'm assuming they sent the letter to all AACA members. Can't think of a reason I'd be singled out...........................Bob

I just got mine on Friday.

[mike6024]

 

Is this new?

http://www.aacamuseum.org/events/news-room/national-club-leadership-aaca-museum/

http://www.aacamuseum.org/16323-2/

Protected: Relationship between the AACA National Club Leadership and the AACA Museum

This content is password protected. To view it please enter your password below:

 

 

Edited January 10, 2017 by mike6024 (see edit history)

[John_S_in_Penna]

Of the 2 items, the top item, "Protected:  Relationship..." is new.

At least, I hadn't noticed it until just now.

Maybe that is the same item that is coming in the mail

to inform all AACA members.

 

The last item, dated December 19, is not new.

Edited January 10, 2017 by John_S_in_Penna (see edit history)

[R W Burgess]

I don't see anything different here. As far as I am concerned the AACA is still open to discussing the future of our organizations together. I must say though that we MUST find a site for the Library Research Center, before we lose a valuable collection because of a lack of storage space.

 

Wayne

[Steve Moskowitz]

My only comment on all of this is that you cannot change the truth.  No amount of spinning or misdirection changes their last proposal to the club or the fact that they wanted $10 of your dues money.  No amount of spinning changes that they wanted 50% of all the funds we would raise to build a new headquarter/library (so we would have to collect twice what we needed) and no amount of bluster changes that they had two chances to sit back at the table since the fall meet and did not take advantage of either despite the fact the club was willing.  That's it. 

[AC Fuhrman]

12 hours ago, R W Burgess said:

I don't see anything different here. As far as I am concerned the AACA is still open to discussing the future of our organizations together. I must say though that we MUST find a site for the Library Research Center, before we lose a valuable collection because of a lack of storage space.

 

Wayne

Aren't we also losing 'a valuable collection' separating from the Museum? I've said how much I support both Club and Museum and Steve and Jeff now and going forward. AACA built/founded/supported the Museum, why wouldn't we want to continue even if it means compromising a bit more than planned - we already have a lot into it. I really can't see why the Museum would want to separate from the club either. Neither unit wants to explain the dozens of AACA bricks and the Duryea car on the roof and the Hershey Region next door or that some fund-raising legal 50-mumbo-jumbo kept the two apart or together or apart. I doubt they will easily get another 'club' as a partner and I doubt the Club, (AACA,) will build anything like the current museum again.

On another note - I belong to several Regions  - I convinced one to make significant donations over the years to the Museum, adopting cars, purchasing furniture, etc., I convinced another one to donate to the Library and the Bookmobile specifically. (In fact I've done this several times with several organizations.) With the 'formal notice' coming out in the magazine shortly I am expecting to face some questions like "what will happen to our investments?" AND "We already gave money to the Library and where is the Bookmobile?" People like me are going to look bad and I don't know that if we really split that the Regions are going to support us, (either of us,) like they have in the past.

There has to be an alternative.

 

[Restorer32]

I don't see that there is any alternative unless the Museum backs off their ridiculous demands regarding fund raising and club member contributions. It's almost like the museum wants more than anything to separate completely from the club.

[R W Burgess]

Andy, any donations made to the Museum are still there, or in money, fully appreciated by them. The Museum will always be there, unless some financial shortfall happens to them. On the AACA end, we are not in the museum business. Our primary mission is to our regions and chapters and the AACA Library. We will always support these as the number one priority. We also run our club as a business and will continue to do what keeps us healthy. We are looking out for you Andy, and the other 60,000 + members of AACA! We do not make bad deals!

 

As I said earlier, we can always consider a museum offer in the future. As of now, we are moving on.

 

Wayne

[Joe in Canada]

I know of a museum up here that was in a court battle over the ownership of a very historic vehicle with a major auto producer. The Manufacturer won and got back the car and they cut ties with each other. That was a few years ago and today they are both arm and arm again. Now receiving large donations again coming from the manufacture for upgrades to the museum.

 Over time the museum will come around realising they cut the purse strings from there largest contributor. No business and they are a business, can survive by throwing rocks at there best customers.

[Doug Novak]

Bottom line, as I see it is in the long run the Club can control the cost per sq foot, and time frame to build a new HQ & Library, with far less hassle if we were to do it independently. To do so we can not build on the Museum grounds as hoped due to the requirements coming from the Museum.

 

The annual donation we have given the Museum in the past, which we are no longer going to do is just one of the costs that will be better spent towards our Clubs immediate needs.

 

The Museum has stated they are fine with out our financial support, so be it.  I do hope and agree with what has been stated previously, eventually there will be renewed good relations between the Museum and Club, on an equal level, as long as we are not living in the same house.

[Steve Moskowitz]

We already gave money to the Library and where is the Bookmobile?"

 

Andy, the bookmobile is in its final stages and we plan on a special ceremony and unveiling at the Charlotte spring meet. The family of the people who made the custom body and members of the library system where the truck came from are expected to be there.  It will be great to show the truck for the first time at the place it came from. 

[Bhigdog]

After reading the "museum letter" I'm still trying to understand why the museum would persist in trying to convince the AACA member ship that they are the "good guys". I can only surmise that they feel they need us more than we need them.

I tend to agree.

While the idea of a museum to show the world what a great thing it all is sounds good, lets consider just how beneficial a fixed museum full of old cars is to the AACA. First, it's fixed in place so it's market is limited by distance. Second, most of the people who visit are already interested or participating in the hobby so there is little additional to be gained. Third the people who visit "for something to do" are no more likely to start restoring/collecting cars than they would start collecting mummies after a visit to the NY Museum of Natural History.

So the question is why should the AACA expend more time and monies to support an entity that provides little or no gain to the club?

Other than the emotional attachment to old cars and the warm fuzzy feeling of having "our own" museum there is little to no advantage of participating with or engaging with the museum.

Wish them well and do no intentional harm but bid them a firm and final farewell.

In retrospect it was a well intentioned idea to begin with and a bad result.....................Bob

 

Edited January 11, 2017 by Bhigdog (see edit history)

[AC Fuhrman]

2 hours ago, Steve Moskowitz said:

We already gave money to the Library and where is the Bookmobile?"

 

Andy, the bookmobile is in its final stages and we plan on a special ceremony and unveiling at the Charlotte spring meet. The family of the people who made the custom body and members of the library system where the truck came from are expected to be there.  It will be great to show the truck for the first time at the place it came from. 

Great - thank you - will pass the word. I'm looking forward to seeing it.

 

[61polara]

I am too!  As co-donor of the bookmobile, I'm looking forward to seeing the final product.  BTW, Steve has done a great job keeping us posted on the progress and delays and I've seen it during the restoration phases.

[1937hd45]

• All I want is my magazine and Hershey spots, plus the use of the Library if I need some research done. Bob

[John_S_in_Penna]

3 hours ago, CARHUNTER said:

 My understanding is that the AACA wants the 501c3 status, but can a car club get that if it is operating as a business? 

 

Mr. Car Hunter--I hope you've found the cars you're hunting!

The AACA club is already a 501c(3), and it has been for some

years.  It's not a for-profit business:  It's really a historical society

dedicated to preserving and promoting antique cars and all

information relating to them.  Accordingly, we have an excellent library

full of automotive information.

 

Aside from this latest debacle, it is an excellent and friendly organization,

so don't let this current issue keep you from appreciating both the club, the

museum, and the library, and their many fine people.

People more knowledgeable may respond to your monetary questions, but they

might want to share it privately with members and not post club finances publicly.

 

"John, I believe Carhunter deleted both of his first posts. Just explaining why your post now looks out of place." Wayne

[MochetVelo]

The club financial information is public knowledge (ie, it is required to be published). The Museum put the links here. The bottom line is the AACA has a paid executive staff, but is mostly run by volunteers, as are many non-profits. It works pretty well that way.

 

Phil

[R W Burgess]

Velo just added a link to information that puts our club in a bad light. Makes one wonder what every other forum member here would think of their tax returns being made public? What could possibly be the point of all of this? This discussion has gone on long enough! The museum needs to open up their own web site forums  if they want to continue allowing discussion on the settled non-merger!

 

The magazine, Antique Automobile, has a full explanation concerning the AACA and Museum merger. AACA members should receive theirs in the next few days.  I really feel that this thread should be closed down. There is nothing else to add. If you feel there is more to discuss, as I said earlier, give me a call

804-313-1983

 

Wayne 

[Steve Moskowitz]

I will ask that Phil's post be allowed to stay.  990's are public and that is that.  However there are insinuations, outright lies and an attempt to confuse and misdirect everyone from what should be the one thing that you should react to.  The museum's final proposal to us.  FINAL proposal by them to US.  It is already in this thread and contains the demand for $10.00 of your dues money to go to the museum, over $300,000 a year.  The demand for 50% of all monies raised for our new facility which would amount to millions and the attempt at once again trying to pull the wool over members eyes about the TRUE legal relationship of the club and the museum. I really do not understand what else matters.  It is a HORRIBLE deal for our members, many and actually most who will never be able to visit this wonderful museum.

 

Mr. Car Hunter there is much to explain here and I think part of it is that you might think a non-profit means that we cannot make a profit.  We have to and we have to be financially strong for many solid business reasons and for our future.  I will spend as much time as you need to try and help you understand our position.  I will be leaving the office soon but will be here tomorrow and all next week.  717-534-1910

 

 

[Joe in Canada]

5 hours ago, CARHUNTER said:

 

Just a thought but consider what you pay for a magazine subscription and you are getting that in your membership. Also because the club is non profit and has been for a while they still have to pay property tax on the library or  fix the roof and pay the full time staff. Being a new member I would sit back read the magazine when it comes in and check out all the benefits of being a member with all the activities in store for this year.

 

I edited this post seeing Carhunter removed his comment.

Edited January 14, 2017 by Joe in Canada (see edit history)

[Bhigdog]

1 hour ago, Steve Moskowitz said:

I will ask that Phil's post be allowed to stay. 

 

Ballsy move, Steve, and exactly the correct one. Every time a post is deleted because of bruised emotions all it does is foster suspicion. Kudos...........................Bob

[MCHinson]

We are up to 20 pages on this discussion. I see that the Museum has now chosen to selectively release lots of data in an attempt to spin the story.

 

The story is quite simple. The club and the members of the club started and have supported the museum since before it existed. The club and the museum attempted to merge. An agreement between the two boards to do that could not be reached. The club is now no longer financially contributing to the museum. The money that the club previously donated to the museum each year will be used from now on for club purposes such as helping to provide a much needed larger space for the club headquarters and library. The club does not need the museum, but it sounds like the museum board has finally figured out that they are in serious trouble unless they can find a way to get the members of the club to continue supporting them. Their most recent actions sound like they have realized that they may be in for a rude awakening financially. I think they have figured out that it is not wise to bite the hand that feeds you.

 

I intend to read all of the museum's trove of released documents but I can already tell that they are attempting to spin the discussion by selective release and I am personally offended by their attempt to slander or embarass our club's Executive Director by their use of a title for one of the documents of, "doc-14-aaca-club-form-990-for-2014-including-page-8-executive-directors-2014-annual-salary-of-145000".  Truth be told, I think that Steve deserves a bit more than we pay him. His value to the club is quite a bit more than he is paid. I hope he continues to hold that position for a long time.

 

I have printed all of those documents and will be busy reading for a while, but from a cursory glance, it is clear that it does not tell the whole story. It will take some reading to decipher the facts from the spin.

 

If the museum board wants any advice from this AACA Member, they would start trying to figure out a way to get back to supporting AACA and working to restore a good relationship with the club and its members instead of continuing to try to fight with the club and expending resources trying to convince the members that the club is wrong and that the museum was mistreated. Only when the Museum board approaches the club in a positive manner in the future will there ever be a chance to create a return to the previous positive "family" relationship with the club.

[MCHinson]

Just now, Bhigdog said:

 

Ballsy move, Steve, and exactly the correct one. Every time a post is deleted because of bruised emotions all it does is foster suspicion. Kudos...........................Bob

 

Just for information purposes, CARHUNTER, who recently registered on the site and stirred up this discussion deleted his two posts himself. They were not removed by the moderators.

[Bhigdog]

11 minutes ago, MCHinson said:

Just for information purposes, CARHUNTER, who recently registered on the site and stirred up this discussion deleted his two posts himself. They were not removed by the moderators.

 

Thank you, Matt, for that info and I'm glad to hear it. I'll leave my comment to Steve intact and unaltered........................Bob

[AC Fuhrman]

 

Let's make the Antique Automobile Club of America the BEST it can be!

I'm sure going to try!

 

 

Edited January 18, 2017 by AC Fuhrman
updating (see edit history)

[MarrsCars]

I'm not an AACA member but I sure am sorry to hear about this. It sounds like nobody wins in this situation. I really just wanted to reply with a couple of thoughts, one being that I would also advise against building your own, new museum. As someone said early on, they are huge financial drains and so you may consider aligning with various museums around the country (or world) to establish free, or more likely highly discounted, admission for AACA members.  Many members travel and could likely make even better use of this amenity than a single stand-alone museum that I'd wager most current members have never even been to. Sure most don't cater exclusively to the era and style of car that appeals to AACA members, but most all good car museums have enough variety to keep any car fan interested. Just consider the ACD Museum in Auburn, the Indianapolis Motor Speedway Museum, Petersen Museum in LA, LeMay in WA, Revs Institute, World of Speed, and so on.

 

My second thought is to simply ask you all not to give up. Who knows what changes will come in leadership, attitudes, or even properties over time, and the AACA is clearly in this for the long haul, so sit tight and see where things lead. Heck, the museum may eventually go bankrupt without your support, and who knows, maybe you pick up the whole lot at an auction for pennies on the dollar!

 

Good luck to all, I certainly wish you the very best. What you have in fellowship cannot be matched by a room full of old cars.

[Restorer32]

Bear in   mind that the AACA has no intention of  "building their own museum" as far as I know. The idea of a museum was suggested in this forum and seems to have taken on a life of its own. The idea does not even merit discussion in the present context.

[Steve_Mack_CT]

Matt's post #478 likely sums up close to 500 comments for most of us here.  One additional comment is that after trying to digest this (OK, maybe not every comment) I would back off my initial concerns about AACA advising membership of the situation earlier rather than later.  Story seems to speak to why it likely made more sense to address in the manner it was.

 

Also, regarding the museum communication, the removal of Tom Cox from Museum BOD seems to insinuate "this is all his doing people, but if AACA wants to appoint someone else well that would be ok" - enough to really turn me off the the Museum, personally I will fund AACA through membership and consider anything else the club might make an appeal for.  Museum can pound sand - I do think it is innapropriate to reach out to membership of an organization you just broke off from, clearly leveraging that organization's mailing list.  I get why they would have it but to me it was bad form, probably just the opposite of the intended effect.  Will I ever step foot in there, sure, why not, but I have no plans to support them financially or otherwise.

Edited January 19, 2017 by Steve_Mack_CT (see edit history)