A little off topic but looking for advice

[Guest Will C]

Next month there's a 1997 Jaguar XK8 Convertible with 117764 miles on it coming to an auction. These types of cars are way out of my knowledge. Other than the fact that I just know I will look real good in that car I know nothing about them. At the moment to my knowledge right now the only thing that has been told is that the keys were lost some time ago. I called my local Jag dealership ad they said it would be around $150.00 for a new set of keys. The car is going to be sold as is, where is so if I buy it Im buying all it's problems with it. What should kind of common problems did these cars have and were they costly to repair?

[Dwight Romberger]

Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha RUN!

[Guest Will C]

My wife says its my mid life crisis car.

[Mark Shaw]

I think Dwight gave you some good advice... My first car was a 62 MG Midget. Aside from having to buy a whole set of metric tools; the electrical system was designed by "The Price of Darkness". Mr. Lucas was famous for inventing intermittent windshield wipers.......and intermittent tail lights, headlights, etc., etc.... Early British cars are also famous for getting rust/cancer early in life in the bones of the beast (frame damage). Just be prepared to spend lots of $$ if you decide to restore it.

My $0.02

[Bill Harmatuk]

Run ! !

Don't do it.

Bill H

[Rusty_OToole]

It depends what kind of shape it is in, and what it costs. For a couple thousand $$$$ bucks, for an extra car you don't have to depend on every day, what can you lose? Ford bought the Jaguar company and brought their reliability up to Ford standards, when exactly this took place I don't know but a web search would find the answer. The real unreliable Jags were from the early 80s.

With a good repair manual and the help of the internet I would take a chance. Buy it cheap enough and worst case, you have to sell it for a few hundred bucks less than you paid when it breaks down. If you get a summer's use out of it, it's cheap entertainment.

[DavidMc]

I looked at buying one of those XK8 Jaguars a few ago, they were a very expensive cars when new (or at least here in Australia) and are now at rock bottom. I took one for a test drive, beautiful car and I have spoken to owners who have owned them for years with no trouble - but if they start to give trouble then expect big bills. If you google Jaguar lovers it will take you to an excellent forum with a section for the XK8. jag-lovers.org

When I drove the XK8 it did not seem to accelerate as hard as I expected and certainly nothing like a typical US muscle car but it was probably actually going just as quick, it was just much more refined.

I don't believe that rust is an issue, this is a 1997 car and it will have been properly painted internally and the infamous Lucas issues were long past when this car was built but it has all of the modern electronics and who knows what problems that will bring long term.

At the right price it will be very tempting- buying a car like that is never a rational choice good luck!

[Dwight Romberger]

There is a good reason why the keys are "lost" and have not been replaced before the sale.

[MarrsCars]

I also would avoid it but only because the keys were "lost" and you can't check it's major systems properly. What if it's a flood damaged car? Also, these were often second cars or weekend cars so the mileage is higher than I'd prefer to see. These cars are fairly cheap to buy today so I'd seek one out that you can test drive and have an indie Jag shop do a PPI for you on. Otherwise, these are pretty fabulous cars for grand touring, I had a couple of the older cars from the 60's and 70's that had electrical issues but these don't really suffer in the same way. They are modern (aside from the XJS underpinnings), have a great engine but I recall there were issues with cylinder liners so you also want to check the specific car either wasn't part of this issue or that the engine was replaced in era. The reason these cars depreciate like crazy is because people are still shell shocked over the quality issues from the distant past, but that works to the enthusiast's advantage. I would buy one if I could verify it's condition and I do occasionally consider it.

Edit: I found some info on the cylinder liner issue here.

[trimacar]

I had a chance to buy a similar Jaguar sedan, new paint, beautiful upholstery, $1000.......the catch? The electronic dash had failed, and cost to fix was in the thousands.....losing keys isn't a bad thing for such a seller....

[Curti]

Mid-Life crisis..... buy a C5 or C6 Corvette. This is the time of the year to buy one. They are really nice cars.

[Buffalowed Bill]

Will,

If you never owned one there are so many things that would never know. It is truly a different driving experience "Grace, Space, and Pace" is what Jaguar people call it and all adds up to a great driving experience. They were far ahead of their time, with their independent rear suspension, beautiful style and great performance, they are timeless. I am an avid car collector but have to say that some of my fondest experiences were while driving a Jaguar. I have so many stories but I will just say that women love them and a man who does not own one is often times jealous or intimidated by a man who does own a Jaguar. In a single word it is sex appeal. It is something I have never come close to in any other car! If the first question someone asks is if you have had mechanical issues with you're Jaguar you know they don't get it and probably never will, they better stick to a Toyota Corolla.

While I love the pre 1990 Jaguars because of their iconic styling and because they were the product of an independent car company, they did have some quality issues. A true old car guy worth his salt sets these issues aside and chalks it up to the cost of owning an old car. It's the price we pay for being allowed to drive something different and special.

Most of the bad went away when Ford bought the company in 1989. Ford immediately set about improving the reliability of Jaguar by dealing with those things that had proved to be problematic and changing things that they could without changing the style or the character that made Jaguar special. They frankly did a great job and if you check customer service records you will find that Jaguars are quite comparable to the other luxury cars in 1996. Fit, finish and reliability is up to the standards of Mercedes and Lexus, which I think says a lot! Maybe the car you are looking at is not the car for you but if it is not make the choice on the car's condition and not because it is a Jaguar. If you get the right Jaguar you are in for a truly memorial experience!-Good luck, Bill

[Trulyvintage]

Hi Will,

Why not buy a running & driving Jaguar ?

You are buying an unknown which is never a good thing where a car is concerned ....

Jim

[CarlLaFong]

I think Dwight gave you some good advice... My first car was a 62 MG Midget. Aside from having to buy a whole set of metric tools;

My $0.02

British cars were never metric, at least in the 60s. They were Imperial, which means your regular inch tools fit a 62 MG. Prior to that, they were Whitworth

[Paul Dobbin]

My wife always wanted a JAG. After using Jag suspension in a Model A, I swore off them. Then one day I was in a junk yard and up on to of the rack was an old Jaguar that I had to own.

Now it hangs in the barn with the lights wired to motion detector that lights up the place whn I drive in. Only Jag in the world that's no problem. (My wife complains it only 1/8th of a Jaguar)

[ATTACH=CONFIG]227129[/ATTACH]

Edited December 16, 2013 by Paul Dobbin
add picture (see edit history)

[Dwight Romberger]

If you really want to enjoy your midlife crisis, buy one of these Audi TT's. I did!

2003, 37,500 miles, 30mpg, $8900, one owner Texas car.

Edited December 16, 2013 by Dwight Romberger (see edit history)

[Greg H.]

I can't resist… The guys at Top Gear UK are reviewing a modern Jag, however this is the best reason to own one.

Greg H.

[Dave@Moon]

There is a good reason why the keys are "lost" and have not been replaced before the sale.

Absolutely. Think about it, if you owned this car and were trying to sell it (and if it were any good), you'd easily double the money you'd get money for it by supplying the $150.00 set of keys in advance. Why on God's green earth would anyone not spend $150.00 to make $1000.00-$5000.00? :confused:

My brother's repair garage is in a lower-middle class neighborhood here in Cincinnati. He tells me he sees at least one Jaguar/Audi/BMW/Volvo/etc per week that somebody bought for $2500-3000.00 that "just isn't running right..., and he has to tell them to make the car roadworthy will cost several times what the car is worth. They drive away with a worthless car for which they paid (what for them) was a lot or all of their net worth that they thought was a bargain..

Just replacing the transmission in one of these cars (a common fault in these Jags) can be a 5 digit bill. No keys = parts car only!

[jeff_a]

If you have never read it before, read some articles by Keith Martin at Sports Car Market Magazine. A web search turns up some advice on how to tell a "fright pig" from a wise purchase. There's even a cellphone app. A lot of candid opinions on cars showing up at auctions, and he's not afraid to call something a piece of junk.

[Guest bkazmer]

Jaguars are cheap to buy and expensive to fix - buy the best one you find, not the cheapest.

I used an XJS as a daily driver (successfully)

This XK is a GT, not a sports car - have appropriate expectations - as stated, Grace,Pace, Space.

[MarrsCars]

They frankly did a great job and if you check customer service records you will find that Jaguars are quite comparable to the other luxury cars in 1996. Fit, finish and reliability is up to the standards of Mercedes and Lexus, which I think says a lot!

Another excellent point to back the minority Jag lovers here. During this time in production Jaguar actually topped the JD Power reliability surveys, that is really saying something for the brand!

If you really want to enjoy your midlife crisis, buy one of these Audi TT's. I did!

Not to insult your choice, fine looking cars but I would rather toss a friend a live grenade than the keys to an out of warranty Audi, the damage, emotional toll and aftermath will be much easier and cheaper to deal with than sorting a "well loved" Audi. To be fair much of that may simply owe to the younger boy racer crowd that buys these cars and abuses them on a lease term. I am basing this on several rescue missions I had to perform on my Audi buddies cars. I'm very glad you're enjoying yours however, they are fine looking cars and I'd be driving an A5 or S8 right now if I was more reassured.

[Guest Will C]

Greg H, That you tube vid was great, I loved it

[Kimo]

Jaguars used to be one of the most elegantly designed general production autos in the world.

Then Ford bought the marque in 1990 and from then until 2008 they ruined the designs. These Ford-guars were designed to look like variations on the Taurus. In 2008 Ford sold the brand to Tata in India and since then the Tata-guars have never recovered from the ruination of the the old Jaguar's elegance of design.

As others have said, the parts and maintenance costs are incredibly expensive and if you buy a used one, especially one that is well beyond its reasonable life expectancy for these fragile autos such as the one you are looking at, you should put aside several thousand a year for maintenance costs in the good years, and more than that for the bad years.

[Guest Will C]

Iv done a lot of research and I think Im going to pass on buying the Jag. I guess it was just a dream. Almost everyone on two forums have said not to buy so thats what Im going to do. I e mailed the auction company and asked for more information and they replied that they have no information on the car. A pig in a bag wouldn't be that scary if it wasn't so expensive to repair if there was a real problem with this car. I looked at e bay and I can get a running car for less than 10,000. I'll still go to the auction and see what it sells for and report back to everyone. Thank you everyone for your input. I'll put it to good use.

[Scooter Guy]

"As Is" with missing keys = major red flag in my book and is probably just the tip of the iceberg in terms of issues. '97 is relatively recent. Modern Jaguars don't just get lost or forgotten about. I'd expect the worst with this one as there is so much that is (apparently) unknown about it. Just the lost keys alone doesn't exactly scream "well cared for!"

Does the car even have a clean title? If not, don't think twice, just run away from it as fast as you can.

[Guest my3buicks]

I once heard some good advice from a salesman when I was looking at a Jag about 10 years ago - If you can't afford a new Jag, you can't afford a used Jag.

[DavidAU]

Buy it if it is cheap. You can always part it out if its no good.

Most people here (rightly or wrongly) have told you how expensive they are to repair and that they are always needing fixing so there has to be some good bits on the car which could bring you a good profit.

It could also be a very good car that someone who has passed on has owned and loved and they cant find the keys to it because he hid them so no one could steal his baby.

[MarrsCars]

Jaguars used to be one of the most elegantly designed general production autos in the world.

Then Ford bought the marque in 1990 and from then until 2008 they ruined the designs. These Ford-guars were designed to look like variations on the Taurus. In 2008 Ford sold the brand to Tata in India and since then the Tata-guars have never recovered from the ruination of the the old Jaguar's elegance of design.

I'd like to correct this common misperception. Moray Callum is the brother to Jaguar design chief Ian Callum. Moray was given the job of designing the 2000 Taurus redesign and, being surrounded by so much Jaguar lore via his sibling, he used the E-Type as an influence for the Taurus nose, a subtle homage' to the family business. His brother Ian then designed the new XK (X150) in 2006 or 2007 and logically also drew from the E-Type and the previous Geoff Lawson-designed XK8 (X100) for this follow up car. The X100 was designed around 1991-92 so you could also argue that the Taurus copied this car as well as the E-Type. Of course none of that will make the car any more beautiful to your eyes as that is subjective.

I also found parts availability and prices to be very good on the two Jags I personally owned.

[Buffalowed Bill]

Kimo

I suspect the Ford era Jaguar that you equate to the Taurus is the "S" model which is in fact based on that car. It really never said Jaguar to me either but it was not bad for an affordable entrance level car. I'm really surprised that style is an issue at all! I agree that early sedans are better looking then the Ford Jags but comparing these to other luxury cars available in the 90's or the 2000's makes them look very good, and I'm not talking about the "S" now. Maybe you don't agree and if not, well to each his own.-Bill

[MarrsCars]

Kimo

I suspect the Ford era Jaguar that you equate to the Taurus is the "S" model which is in fact based on that car. It really never said Jaguar to me either but it was not bad for an affordable entrance level car. I'm really surprised that style is an issue at all! I agree that early sedans are better looking then the Ford Jags but comparing these to other luxury cars available in the 90's or the 2000's makes them look very good, and I'm not talking about the "S" now. Maybe you don't agree and if not, well to each his own.-Bill

Bill, I forgot about the S-Type, that one also shared it's platform with a Lincoln I believe? There was the X-Type which I think all might agree was an overreach, low quality interior and a cheapened design created as an entry level model. I tend to agree a bit more with Kimo if those were the cars he referenced, but the S was another homage to an earlier car so it looks good to my eye, especially the S-Type R

[Guest Will C]

When I googled the 1997 xk8 I thought it was just about the most beautiful car I had ever seen, So I guess its that old adage, (Beauty is in the eyes of the beholder) But then my heat skips a beat everytime I see my Model T also! Although I don't have a lot of money I do have a lot of time. I'm not bad with my hands so if it's is something I can fix myself it will just cost me parts. But I still need to get it cheap first. Hopefully there wont be a lot of guys with no brains and fat wallets bidding also.

[Restorer32]

Bah Humbug, there has been no true Jag since they stopped building the DOHC 6.

[Bill Harmatuk]

Keep a look out on the roadsides and roll back tow trucks.

Volvo, Audi, Jaguar, BMW, Volkswagen, Mercedes, .... Did I forget anything European??

Do you need stories?

I don't want to be ugly, and I apologize, but I have been a car guy and mechanic for 58 years.

If you have plenty of money and time. Go for it.

Money is everywhere, if you need it. You can't buy time and you can't get a loan for time.

My 2 Cents

Bill H

[Buffalowed Bill]

"Ask the man who owns one", I think that we are all familiar with the Packard slogan. I find it interesting, that when I review the responses to this Thread, only two of the respondents admit to own or who have owned a Jaguar of the vintage Will asked about. There may be more but no one has admitted to it, if so why haven't they admitted it? For so many people that have seemingly never owned one there is sure a great deal of negativity towards the car.

I too would stay away from the car that Will was interested in, not because it was a Jaguar or that model of Jaguar, but because of it's uncertain history. Good advice was offered to find the best car you can find, but this is the advice that we should use in any car purchase not just Jaguar. I only wish that I had always followed that advice myself!

As far as comparing Jaguar to the other luxury cars of post 1990, none of them are cheap to repair, not Lexus, not Mercedes, not BMW, but it is the same for even the least expensive grocery getter. So if someone plans on driving a twenty year old car they better be prepared for the repair costs, but then the used car buyer doesn't have to pay the initial forty, fifty, sixty or more thousand dollars initial selling price either! So I enjoy the ride!-Bill

1976 XJ12C

1985 XJ6

1988 XJSC

1996 XJ6

[Rusty_OToole]

If it was me I would go to the auction and bid $1500. Who knows, you might get it.

I would do some internet research and see if there is a way to jimmy up the expensive key (there usually is).

I would take it home and check it out, expecting to find problems. If I find some problems that can be fixed for not too much, great. I would also search carefully for a spare key, hidden in a box under the fender or bumper, or in some inconspicuous place. You never know your luck.

If it can't be fixed for a reasonable price, next week there would be a cheap Jaguar for sale, only $2000.

If it did not sell I would part it out and make a few thousand $$$$ or just sell it for junk and write off the loss as entertainment.

The point is, if the car is cheap enough you can afford to be a little chancy and a 15 year old Jag with no keys at an auction just might be cheap enough.

[JACK M]

My neighbor bought an old Mercedes out from behind a house that sold the other day. He called the owner who lived far away and was told that the keys were lost but that he would send the title for two hundred bucks.

Long story short. He found keys in the ash tray and made a HUGE profit.

[mercer09]

run Forrest run....!

[1937hd45]

TWO PAGES and nobody has posted a photo of what this car might look like, so much for educating the readers. I got a V12 Jag two door years ago for painting a basement, a job I'd have charged $200.00 for, I lost money on that deal. Bob

[Rusty_OToole]

Yeah but you had $200 worth of entertainment trying to get it to run, and$200 worth of fun just looking at it.

[Kimo]

I'd like to correct this common misperception. Moray Callum is the brother to Jaguar design chief Ian Callum. Moray was given the job of designing the 2000 Taurus redesign and, being surrounded by so much Jaguar lore via his sibling, he used the E-Type as an influence for the Taurus nose, a subtle homage' to the family business. His brother Ian then designed the new XK (X150) in 2006 or 2007 and logically also drew from the E-Type and the previous Geoff Lawson-designed XK8 (X100) for this follow up car. The X100 was designed around 1991-92 so you could also argue that the Taurus copied this car as well as the E-Type. Of course none of that will make the car any more beautiful to your eyes as that is subjective.

I also found parts availability and prices to be very good on the two Jags I personally owned.

Everyone to their own taste. I am talking about the shear elegance of the designs of Jaguar's earlier chief designer Malcolm Sayer. Below is a Sayer designed XKE V-12. Below that is the XK8 that is trying to copy some of the styling ques, but to my eyes falls far short.