Is it ever an Investment?

[R W Burgess]

http://forums.aaca.org/f228/have-you-ever-left-hershey-without-341151.html#post1107445

I have been enjoying the Forum Thread above and started thinking (yeah, I know it's dangerous to think, on my part anyway) about the comment that David made yesterday that a certain restorable car was out of his price range.

So, I'm wondering if in today's world, is a restorable vehicle worth buying as an investment, if you have the extra money?

Wait! What if you don't have the extra money? Is it crazy to borrow money from someone to purchase a valuable antique? Of any kind? Just look at the crazy stock market. How about the banks, with C/D investments- may as well bury it in the yard. (I don't want to see anyway digging up my yard now. I only save dollar bills in jars-reminds me of an old joke...wandering again Wayne)

Wayne

[39BuickEight]

I don't think buying the right car is any riskier than any other form of investment. As they always say, you gotta spend money to make money. Easier said than done for sure.

[trimacar]

I've never hesitated to borrow money to buy a car that was a good deal. I treated it like putting money into a savings account, each payment meant I had a little more in the account. It's served me well over the years, as I've owned almost 200 collector cars since the early 1970's.

My brother is a hunter, deer, duck, whatever walks on four legs and flies without an engine. He's serious about it, the kind of guy that goes out in the woods all year round, just so he knows where the wildlife lives and travels.

He once commented that he had probably spent about the same on his hobby over the years as I have on mine, between deer camps, guns, travel, and so forth. He further stated that I had a garage full of cars with some value, and all he had was some duck feathers and a mounted deer head.

[TexRiv_63]

There are certainly a lot of people out there who buy cars JUST as investments and we have not treated them well on this forum. If you look at the massive price bubbles and busts with muscle cars its no different than the stock market - if you are lucky enough to buy low and sell high you make big bucks. But the guys who bought those million dollar Hemi Cuda's a few years ago and held them too long saw the other side of the coin.

[poci1957]

It is a good question and one we all probably struggle with. How many of us have told our wives what a good investment the old car is? Often as a way to convince ourselves, I think.

I think for the middle class hobbyist the idea of the old car being a good investment has faded. 30 years ago one could have a car painted for $1000 and do chrome for a 1950s car for $2000-$3000. And more hobbyists were able to do more of their own work. Now the costs of restoraton mean most old cars cannot absorb these costs and still turn a profit, if that is the main concern. BUT stock and real estate speculation is not exactly booming for the middle class investor either, and bank CD and savings rates are non-existent. So once again we should all advise people buy a car because you like it, take care of it and maybe you can enjoy the hobby and at least break even. Todd C

[keiser31]

Nothing really wrong with buying a car to turn over.....a lot of us have done it. It is a rare occurrence for me to buy a vehicle to re-sell. All of us like to think that we bought something that is worth way more than what we paid for it. My problem is that I always buy to keep. I only sell when my finances (or lack thereof) command it. I still see the footprints on my own butt from kicking myself for selling ANY of my past cars/trucks. I have actually turned big money down to sell a vehicle to someone cheaper and who I considered "more worthy" to own.

Edited December 7, 2012 by keiser31 (see edit history)

[Bhigdog]

If you want to make a small fortune in the old car business best to start with a big one..............................Bob

[Amphicar BUYER]

I have been fortunate to keep my roof over my head because of the cars I bought and sold. (made $400 by washing a Corvair once!) I loved them all. There is NOTHING wrong with making a dollar on an old car. It probably saves the car or at the least makes somebody happy to have it. I have turned down a number of buyers that I did not feel were right for the car. One guy who is well known around here (500+ cars and many historical/famous) is still mad I wouldn't sell him my HPOF Amphicar. He wanted it for cheap and it would never be seen by very many. Right now it's on display at the Forney Transportation museum in Denver where it makes many people happy every. The museum wanted it for 90 days.... 8 years ago! It gets love every day and they attribute attendance rise directly to the Amphicar. That makes me VERY happy!

My restorations always make the customers HAPPY and that is my real payoff. The blue Amphi I just finished went back to it's owner of 30+ years. His health (Parkinson's and cancer) is failing enough that he will never even be able to drive it now that it's perfect. His wife helps him out to the garage where he spends hours just sitting in the car. (makes me emotional thinking about him)

The investment is not always money, it can be emotional or experience based. I have been very fortunate to have experienced all 3 and in a couple cases, in the same car!

[Guest]

Is it ever a investment? Sure can be in many ways. Pride of bring a car back, pride of ownership, in my case pride of all of those mentioned and for the most part for keeping the cars that I've had most all of my life including having two H/S cars.

Is it ever a return investment, well as Todd says for many of us middle class and especially someone just getting started the return as far as monetary investment goes I'm sorry to say no.

Like the old VW add that used to say; Some of our customers have often said " Our car is a member of the family that just happens to live in the garage" Some of us car people just happen to feel that way.

I regret having to sell my dad's and then mine 59 Pontiac Catalina purpose built factory drag car, but I was lucky to have two cars ( that I still have) while still living at home and in the 12th grade.

Edited December 7, 2012 by helfen (see edit history)

[Restorer32]

The best way to make money with antique cars is to buy them, put them in dry storage, don't spend a dime on them, wait 20 years then advertise them as "barn finds". Those who bought cars in the late 1970s and early 1980's and held on to them until the late 1990's made spectacular gains. Your experience may vary

[caddyshack]

Right on Restorer 32. I did buy all of mine in the '70s and 80's and still have some valuable ones left today. If you knew what to look for back then, it will pay off now and in the future. At the time it was a hobby and I never thought of it as an investment. People today tell me that I made a wise investment. I still think of it as a passion, not a money maker. In todays economy its big business and the brass era autos are not popular with most of the 80's and 90's generation. Everyone has owned an auto that they wish they had not parted with, and I am no exception. But I sure wish I could find a certain '56 Vette and '70 SS Chevelle. There are a couple of new models on the road today that will absolutely be collector items in the near future.

Good luck and choose wisely.

[TexRiv_63]

The best way to make money with antique cars is to buy them, put them in dry storage, don't spend a dime on them, wait 20 years then advertise them as "barn finds". Those who bought cars in the late 1970s and early 1980's and held on to them until the late 1990's made spectacular gains. Your experience may vary

I think this is the only way to make real money on old cars. If you love them like most of us do your judgement is clouded and that tends to make you spend more than you should somewhere. I've owned a lot of cars over the years but never more than one or two at a time. Unlike a lot of you I have never bought to keep forever as I get tired of them after they are "done" and I move on to the next one on my hazily defined wish list. In the past I did major work myself on the cars and actually made money on quite a few, but if I ever would have counted the cost of my own labor every single car was a massive loss. Now that I have to farm out the heavy stuff I'm very happy if I can get close to breaking even.

[joe_padavano]

The best way to make money with antique cars is to buy them, put them in dry storage, don't spend a dime on them, wait 20 years then advertise them as "barn finds". Those who bought cars in the late 1970s and early 1980's and held on to them until the late 1990's made spectacular gains. Your experience may vary

I suspect that while the numbers may sound impressive, with VERY few exceptions you would always have been better off doing something else with your money. Restoring a car is almost NEVER an investment if you truly look at all costs including your labor. Finding and storing an untouched car for 20 years has it's own costs (real estate value and taxes, net present value of the purchase price, etc) and is also unlikely to be a true gain if you really include all costs. Sorry, but this is a hobby and I consider it as such. I don't drink, smoke, or chase women (and my wife knows exactly where to find me - in the garage) so this is my entertainment expense. It's not an investment.

[trimacar]

Don't take my comment as meaning I'm into cars for an investment. I'm into them because I love old cars, I've just been lucky enough over the years that some cars I bought increased in value, and I was able to sell and buy better or more desirable cars. I couldn't go out now, for example, and buy a Cord phaeton, but I was able to get one in my garage in the 1980's and it's stayed there since, even though I could make good money on it. Some cars just aren't for sale.

[Terry Bond]

Good topic Wayne. For years coming home from Hershey I used the "investment" theory to justify some outrageous purchases, many still on display in the automobilia showcases here. I look at it this way - what is the real cost of fun? Some folks go to movies, some go on cruises. We don't do a lot of things in preference to enjoying the hobby and the company of the people in it. Money spent on an old car is much more than just about the old car - it's buying into everything that goes with it. A pic of our latest "investment" is attached - actually it's Susan's and she didn't have to work too hard to justify it to me!

Terry

[Matt Harwood]

My reply to most guys is that instead of buying an old car as an investment, they should try driving down the road throwing $20s out the window, just to get an idea of how it feels to own an old car.

I am frequently asked by buyers if they hang on to the car they're buying from me for X years, will it be worth more. Everyone, and I mean EVERYONE now looks at buying an old car as an investment, even if it's a lousy one. Although I do this for a living, I do it way out in the margins, and unless you're able to invest heavily, you won't reap major profits from selling an old car. Yeah, you can make a little here and there, but it's pretty much the six-figure cars that have price movement big enough to cover the expense of storage, insurance, shipping, and other incidentals and still leave some profit on the table. Or time, but a lot of it. Five years isn't going to see major appreciation. 20 years? Probably.

Instead of thinking about investments, I encourage people to look at old car ownership as a vacation. You don't take your family on a trip and hope to sell your souvenirs for a profit, do you? No, you have a great time, build some memories, and have something to look forward to next time. THAT is how the hobby works best. Take the financial "upside" out of the equation and I think you'll find that you enjoy it a lot more. You're buying fun, not a stock certificate.

Yes, I'm way upside-down on all the old cars I own. And no, I don't regret it one bit!

And now that I'm thinking about it, why the heck does everyone expect old cars to get more valuable just by getting older? Everyone knows stocks and bonds are a gamble, yet they still play that game, but every guy who owns an old car demands to get more than he paid for it when the time comes to sell. What's up with that?

[auburnseeker]

The best way to make money with antique cars is to buy them, put them in dry storage, don't spend a dime on them, wait 20 years then advertise them as "barn finds". Those who bought cars in the late 1970s and early 1980's and held on to them until the late 1990's made spectacular gains. Your experience may vary

As long as your 20 year storage doesn't look like this. This is from the local craigslist in NY state. Why not sell the car before the garage fell down around it???

[trimacar]

"Everyone knows stocks and bonds are a gamble, yet they still play that game, but every guy who owns an old car demands to get more than he paid for it when the time comes to sell. What's up with that? "

Matt, I 100% agree with you. People who will go out and buy a $50K new car with a car payment of $800 a month for 6 years, knowing full well that they lose money driving off the car lot, and lose a lot more in that 6 years, yet they want an antique car to be worth more.

Buy it because you love it, and drive it to enjoy both the car and the people you'll meet......

[R W Burgess]

Ok, guys, I'm reading two issues here.

One: is covering buying an old car that needs a lot of restoration and the expenses involved with it. In my opinion, it's hard to come out on that deal, as most have said.

Two: is buy the best car for the money, already restored, and sit on it. Drive it a little but do not let it go down on you.

Here's my history. I bought a '65 fuelly Corvette back in 1995 for about what a high dollar new Buick costs back then. This car has at least doubled in value since then. Now, I have recently had a large expense. I had to rebuild the fuel unit, at around $5,000.00. Yes, big bucks. Heck,I could have sold the unit and made money on the system, but that's not what it's about, to me anyway. So, yes I have spend some money on the car, replaced the interior too for about $1000.00, but I'm still way ahead.

So now I see another Corvette, a big block that is expensive, but I believe today it is well worth the asking price. It will go nowhere but up in value, unless the economy takes a real dive. Of course if that happened, we're all in the creek anyway, right?

Wayne

PS: Forgot to mention, the wife has put her foot down......on the purse strings...no more cars!

Edited December 7, 2012 by R W Burgess (see edit history)

[Guest Bill Miller]

Matt Harwood's comment is absolutely correct. The high dollar six-figure (and more) market, mostly coachbuilt cars and those of limited production like Ferrari and certain race cars and those of historical value, will probably always continue to appreciate but the rest of the car market will never make a collector rich. My wife and I buy cars because we view them as rolling sculpture, like a wonderful painting, something to be enjoyed for what it is and not for what it might be worth. If I could afford it, I would collect examples of Delahaye, Delage, Isotta-Fraschini, Talbot-Lago, Hispano-Suiza, and a host of other really knock-down gorgeous cars on my imaginary wish list, just as I might also collect paintings by Renoir, Cezanne, Monet, Klimt, Matisse, Pissaro, Sisley and a number of other artists I admire, all just because I appreciate the beauty and craftsmanship of the art and the creativity that went into producing it. Well. I've never won big in the lottery and I'm unlikely to be the beneficiary of a fortune under anyone's will so I'm stuck with what I can afford on my own. Our collections of both art and cars are a synthesis of what my wife and I appreciate and what is within our means. I've never bought a car I intended to hold and sell and my wife feels the same way. With the exception of certain high end cars for which there will probably always be a strong market, a person who buys a car with the idea of making a great profit on resale is probably going to take a bath on the "investment", especially when one considers the maintenance and upkeep, insurance costs and taxes that are incurred over time. My advice is to buy what makes you happy, enjoy it, drive it and sell it only when you can no longer physically maintain it or want to buy something new to replace it. If you do this there will never be any disappointment or second thoughts and you will never worry about the state of the old car market. You might even rejoice if your tax bill arrives showing a value less than what you paid.

[1937hd45]

WOW! Terry & Susan got a B-17, that had to cause the spark plug collection to take a hit. I've always wished I had the funds to "Invest" in collector cars, there were some great ones in the past that I could have, should have made a move on. I've always done well on parts buy outs. Dollar for dollar I've thought it was a better deal, easy to store, sell, box, and ship. I only buy cars I like, if they turn out to be slow movers, I won't have an ugly reminder of a bad investment. Bob

[TexRiv_63]

Instead of thinking about investments, I encourage people to look at old car ownership as a vacation. You don't take your family on a trip and hope to sell your souvenirs for a profit, do you? No, you have a great time, build some memories, and have something to look forward to next time. THAT is how the hobby works best. Take the financial "upside" out of the equation and I think you'll find that you enjoy it a lot more. You're buying fun, not a stock certificate.

Matt, I think you've got it. Most everyone outside the hobby thinks of money as the only positive return on an original investment of money but for most of us that is not the prime motive. An example - I just sold my 57 Lincoln at a loss of about $3500.00. I owned it for about 14 months so, the way I look at it, it cost me about $7.75 a day for which I got the pleasure of learning about it, troubleshooting it, shopping for it, repairing it, cleaning it, and driving it - experiences which to me are invaluable. My investment of $7.75 a day for those experiences is a freaking awesome bargain!

[Guest Rob McDonald]

WOW! Terry & Susan got a B-17

Hehehehe, too bad they couldn't afford paint.

[Dandy Dave]

http://forums.aaca.org/f228/have-you-ever-left-hershey-without-341151.html#post1107445

I have been enjoying the Forum Thread above and started thinking (yeah, I know it's dangerous to think, on my part anyway) about the comment that David made yesterday that a certain restorable car was out of his price range.

So, I'm wondering if in today's world, is a restorable vehicle worth buying as an investment, if you have the extra money?

Wait! What if you don't have the extra money? Is it crazy to borrow money from someone to purchase a valuable antique? Of any kind? Just look at the crazy stock market. How about the banks, with C/D investments- may as well bury it in the yard. (I don't want to see anyway digging up my yard now. I only save dollar bills in jars-reminds me of an old joke...wandering again Wayne)

Wayne

Advice from an old Cowboy. Most of my Money I've invested in Fine Whisky, Good Cigars, Handsome Lookin Womans, -n- Poker. The rest I wasted.

For a good investment try Gold and Silver. No matter what happens, it is still vauable to someone no matter which country.

Speaking of big money in Mason Jars, The bills in the old days were larger than they are now. I remember a Beverly Hillbillys..... Oh heck, Watch it for yourselves.

Judith McConnell in The Beverly Hillbillies (1969) 2/3 - YouTube

Edited December 9, 2012 by Dandy Dave (see edit history)

[MrEarl]

Hello, my name is MrEarl and I am a '54 Buickholic. My wife has threatened to leave me if I buy one more Buick.

Do you think a junky considers his last street corner purchase an investment. Probably. It's an addiction guys, may as well admit it. That coupled with "Whiteline fever" pretty much keeps me in the dog house.

Yea it's an expensive hobby. But oh the great friends I have made and the many sights I have seen in my travels all over the country draggin these ol chunks of iron home.....PRICELESS That's the investment part for me.

PS Looking for a nice clean 54 2 door sedan to buy.

Edited December 8, 2012 by MrEarl
trying to make it make sense, I give up (see edit history)

[rons49]

Wayne, thanks for this thread. I have been contemplating selling one or two of my cars. After reading this article and laughing quite alot, I've reconsidered. One in particular from Matt Harwood, ie, Owning an collector car is like driving down the road throwing $20s out the window... it's no wonder that we collectors make folks happy. As an investment, especially those of us who a just a bit anal about originality, well let's say for what it cost to restore my Hornet in 1991, I could do a bit better than break even today. However, if I took the cash that I spent on the car a put it in Microsoft and in 2002 I could have bought every Hudson west of the Rockies. Look, I met nice folks world wide and had fun doing it. I have had invaluable lessons in more than car stuff. Whether or not that is a good monetary "investment", I can only say when I feal a bit down I can go to this sight( or some other club sites) or read some car related magizines and put aside my blues. That, sir, is a good investment. Ron Sotardi

[joe_padavano]

PS: Forgot to mention, the wife has put her foot down......on the purse strings...no more cars!

Yeah, see, I'm on my THIRD wife (and no, THAT'S not cheap either... :eek:)

[Rusty_OToole]

There is an old story about 2 brothers in Germany who came into a substantial inheritance in 1913.

The first brother prudently invested his fortune in government bonds, diversified among German, Austro-Hungarian and Russian issues.

The second spent his money on high living, fine clothes, fine food and fine wine.

Ten years later the first brother was ruined and penniless because of the destruction of the Austro-Hungarian empire by the war, the fall of Russia to Communism and the German hyper inflation.

The second brother had a house full of valuable furniture, a wardrobe of expensive, hand made suits, hats, and even warm fur coats plus a wine cellar that was worth a pretty penny.

The point is, you never know what the future is going to bring.

[R W Burgess]

...........The second brother had a house full of valuable furniture, a wardrobe of expensive, hand made suits, hats, and even warm fur coats plus a wine cellar that was worth a pretty penny.

The point is, you never know what the future is going to bring.

So, Rusty, you're telling me to hold on still longer to my bellbottomed pants, and tie dyed shirts. Gee, my wife will be real happy to hear that!:mad:

Wayne

PS, forgot to tell you that I had plans to sell them in Washington state. I understand those youngsters out there will be a "new" ready market.

Edited December 9, 2012 by R W Burgess (see edit history)

[auburnseeker]

There was a show on TV when I was young. I think it might have been an episode of the twilight zone, where the guy as a young man bought stuff he really wanted under the advice of some magical little person? Among the items I believe was an auburn boat tail speedster along with other curiosities. Near the end the guy looking like a homeless man, had his car packed full of stuff and I think was going to do himself in. He was trying to put gas into his car but all he had was a big jug full of pennies to pay which the clerk wouldn't accept. Then a lady in a limousine pulled up and the lady in it offerred him $10,000 for the jug. He sold all his possessions at auction and became a millionaire.

That story always stuck in my mind. Does anybody else remember it?

My investment philosophy is to buy stuff that's odd and old. I like looking at my old signs and driving my old cars every day. I don't see much fun in looking at a total on a sheet and worrying that at any moment one of those companies could fold and I lose a substantial amount of money which I can do nothing about. In the end our cars will still be if nothing else a car that we can use. That stock paperwork won't even keep the shop warm for 5 minutes if the stock value folds and all it's worth is the paper it's printed on.

Just my 2 cents.

I always try to take the emmotion out of a purchase and look at it from a business type standpoint. Some day I'm probably going to want to or have to sell this car. Can I buy a better example for less money than fixing this one? Is anyone going to want it when I have to sell it? What are the good and bad points of it? All things I run through my mind.

I do prefer the cars for one other reason as well. They are one of the few investments you can improve upon although usually at a return of about $1 an hour:D. Most of the rest (real estate) excluded are up to other people to determine wether they will increase or decrease in value and it's purely a guess.

[trimacar]

I remember that episode with the speedster! Would love to see it again. I don't think it was Twilight Zone, though, not spooky enough for Rod Serling's tastes. Thought it might be Amazing Stories, but searched those episodes and couldn't find it. Anyone remember the exact show it was on?

[auburnseeker]

I remember that episode with the speedster! Would love to see it again. I don't think it was Twilight Zone, though, not spooky enough for Rod Serling's tastes. Thought it might be Amazing Stories, but searched those episodes and couldn't find it. Anyone remember the exact show it was on?

You may be onto something it may have been amazing stories as I remember watching another story about the same time with a guy that was the bottom turret gunner on a B17? and they couldn't get him out or get the landing gear down. That story sticks in my mind as well.

[MarrsCars]

As was alluded to already I feel the act of simply buying an old car is the investment when compared to buying something new off the lot, paying for the costs of financing, insurance on a new car, depreciation, etc. I've just tabulated my costs and see we have spent $7-9k in maintenance and repairs on the MB coupe in the one year we have owned it, but that still comes in at just below what a new base level car would have cost. I bought the car well, and I will never suffer any depreciation. Some people will argue that if you buy new cars you will always be under a warranty and not have the high costs of repairs, but let's think about this, you will still be on the hook for those financing, depreciation and other costs every time you trade in for the next one. My car was bought and paid for, there will still be repair issues but on a well made car (arguably most older cars were better made) like what I have now the repairs will not be necessary again for some time. I just replaced the original 50-year old starter with another Bosch and it should last at least 20-years. Being largely mechanical with very little in the way of anything resembling electronics the repairs are more likely to last and not cause another issue in 5-10 years. There is a predictable, finite mechanical life to these moving gears and parts. When it's all said and done every repair I do increases the value of a collectible car to a degree, or rather prevents it being devalued because of the needed repair, when I go to sell it I may still only break even over my accumulated costs, or perhaps lose $10k or whatever the number may be, but to own a car such as this for free or even $10k for many years of enjoyment if an option I will choose any day.

[MarrsCars]

You may be onto something it may have been amazing stories as I remember watching another story about the same time with a guy that was the bottom turret gunner on a B17? and they couldn't get him out or get the landing gear down. That story sticks in my mind as well.

You guys are correct, it was Amazing Stories! If you subscribe to Netflix you can get the DVD's or watch them immediately using their Instant View feature. The Speedster episode was called "Gather Ye Acorns" and the Bomber episode was "The Mission" and both are from the first season. I have been obsessed with that bomber episode since I was a kid and kicked myself over and over a few years ago because I forgot to bid on the prop bomber used in the show, the scale model they used. It sold for something like $300 but I would have enjoyed owning it.

[Guest Skyking]

Hello, my name is MrEarl and I am a '54 Buickholic. My wife has threatened to leave me if I buy one more Buick.

Do you think a junky considers his last street corner purchase an investment. Probably. It's an addiction guys, may as well admit it. That coupled with "Whiteline fever" pretty much keeps me in the dog house.

MrEarl, I couldn't have said it better.....................Just think, what would we all do without our old cars?

[1937hd45]

Was the B-17 story the one with the happy ending were a crewmember drew a cartoon of the plane with big Micky Mouse style tires and it landed safely? The Auburn story sounds like a good one, wonder if the jar of pennies turned out to be the best investment? Bob

You guys are correct, it was Amazing Stories! If you subscribe to Netflix you can get the DVD's or watch them immediately using their Instant View feature. The Speedster episode was called "Gather Ye Acorns" and the Bomber episode was "The Mission" and both are from the first season. I have been obsessed with that bomber episode since I was a kid and kicked myself over and over a few years ago because I forgot to bid on the prop bomber used in the show, the scale model they used. It sold for something like $300 but I would have enjoyed owning it.

[MarrsCars]

Was the B-17 story the one with the happy ending were a crewmember drew a cartoon of the plane with big Micky Mouse style tires and it landed safely? The Auburn story sounds like a good one, wonder if the jar of pennies turned out to be the best investment? Bob

That it is! Reminds me of Memphis Belle in an odd way, another movie I love.

[Guest toybox99615]

When you start to look at your hobby as an investment I believe you enter dangerous grounds. Sure there are those who make a good return for what they have invested. And most assuredly there are those who lost their investments due to unforeseen circumstances or simply a bad choice of cars to begin with. I wonder how many collector cars, motorcycles, and other vehicles turned into trash during Sandy, Katrina, the California or Colorado wildfires. It does cost to have those vehicles insured year after year in hopes they increase in value. And parked out on the back 40 is not an option for retaining value.

The more I see what would have been a nice restoreable car parked in a back lot for 20 years rusting away the more I wonder where the return of that investment was while some old dude wont sell them till they get worth big money. I've watched the collection of Rail Road watches go the way of the Do Do as the find their way into vaults. Old telegraph components are harder to find as more museums increase their stash of spares for the back storeroom. It seem the idea of investment collections of anything ends up destroying the interest in the history, the object, the technology or any related fun into just a by gone era. Maybe its partially due to all the TV series where everything from toys of your youth to vintage car parts becomes unfordable.

In any event I hope the hobby itself will have more hobby collectors than investors as the years pass. Or soon we could all be relegated to show the grandchildren the web pictures from some museum where the investments are kept under lock and key.

Edited December 10, 2012 by toybox99615 (see edit history)

[Amphicar BUYER]

When you start to look at your hobby as an investment I believe you enter dangerous grounds. Sure there are those who make a good return for what they have invested. And most assuredly there are those who lost their investments due to unforeseen circumstances or simply a bad choice of cars to begin with. I wonder how many collector cars, motorcycles, and other vehicles turned into trash during Sandy, Katrina, the California or Colorado wildfires. It does cost to have those vehicles insured year after year in hopes they increase in value. And parked out on the back 40 is not an option for retaining value.....

I can tell you that natural disasters take fewer collectible cars than apathy and time does. During the fires here, I was able to get an Amphicar body (fresh paint) out of the shop before it burned taking a Morgan racer and my Amphicar doors, hood and engine cover. The guy who I just sold an Amphicar to saw his (1 of 3) Chrysler phaeton disappear below the salt water, heating oil and sewage along with his Mercedes and a couple others.

There is no way I (or most) could afford to insure all the Amphicars I have let alone some of the other folks who have projects sitting and waiting for their turn. I did make my hobby into a business and so far so good! You can store them in such a way to minimize the effects of time. I know where there is a one owner, #'s matching, '66 Corvette 427 sitting outside in the weeds. The foot wells have 3" of standing water in them and I'm sure the wiring has made many a mouse very happy to chew on not to mention the effects of the sun on the glass body. I have spoke with him about the car and even tho he will probably never be able to drive it or restore it, he refuses to sell. I have offered a reasonable CASH (actual collection of $100 bills) offer. He bought it new with the money he saved after his tour in Vietnam (THANK YOU FOR YOU SERVICE!!!) so I understand his emotions.

I did get my '59 Skyliner in a similar situation but he eventually decided it was in his, the car's and my best interest to sell it to me. Ten years of polite conversation it what it took. I was polite and patient. I still have that car as promised to the previous owner. He does get 1st right of refusal and another one lives on.

I can think of no better way to have an investment. One you can enjoy and admire. My Amphicars bring smiles to so many people and the values have risen and fallen, but the fun has never been better!

[Guest]

Last week Mechum had the K/C auction. Many really good cars for a reasonable prices, especially the higher end cars, not CCAA stuff but really nice cars.