Today, December 7th... Pearl Harbor

[skyler]

chrysler made ammunition among other things for WWII.i worked for AMF just before going into the navy during the vitnam war. 1969. they were making 500 pounders. skyler

[Guest DagoRed]

This speaks for many of us ....

[R W Burgess]

Ashes of December 7 survivors to be returned to Pearl Harbor!

Rest in Peace!

Pearl Harbor Day 2011: 100 survivors return for 70th anniversary | Mail Online

[Guest danceswithpumps]

Remember Pearl Harbor, 70 years ago today and every day! What a moving experience standing above the Arizona ship memorial where almost half (1,177) the casualties on that day (2,403)occured. Many are still entombed in the ship. I believe drops of fuel from the ship still come to the surface every few minutes. Here's a link to the names of those brave sailors. May they and all of our fallen be honored today and every day. It was also quite memorable to stand on the Missouri where the war with Japan ended.

USS Arizona Casualty List

My cousin, Byron Johnson, crash landing of his Hellcat on the carrier's deck, 1943. The man, Walter Chewning, standing on the fuel tank is getting the jammed canopy open so Byron can escape this burning plane and resume flying missions again. Byron survived the war and just passed away a few years ago. His first cousin, however, was killed during the war which made family gatherings especially at the cemetery on Memorial Day very difficult for our family.I'm sure many of you have seen this photo, said to be one of the top 10 photos of WWII.

Byron Johnson, Walter Chewning - Crash Landing! - Aboard a WWII Aircraft Carrier - Photo Gallery - LIFE

Thanks,

Rod

Edited December 8, 2011 by danceswithpumps (see edit history)

[Guest Jim_Edwards]

I wanted it up before Midnight, so I jumped the gun a little. There is a little group of Ex Vets on here that have given me the honor, and granted me the duty to post Pearl Harbor Day. Least we not forget. Dandy Dave!

As a USMC Veteran I greatly appreciate your post, even if it does remind me that in 23 days I'll be 70. I have very distinct recollections of truck after truck of German POWs passing by our house every day in the spring and summer on their way to and from working nearby vegetable fields though being just a little kid at the time. All of my relatives that served in WWII in either theater are now sadly gone. All had been wounded more than once, as was the case for many in that War. It is sad that today many of those in our younger generations seem to lack the sense of duty to country those people all had along with the understanding that Freedom is never free. I have no recollection of any among that generation lamenting the sacrifices everyone made during that War.

[jeff_a]

Thank you for your salute to the veterans.

My dad served in North Africa, Italy and Germany 1943-45 and once got to meet Joseph Lockhart who was at Opana Radar Station on Oahu. My stepdad was a ball-turret gunner in a B-24 in the Pacific. I once met P-38 Ace George Chandler, who was on the Yamamoto Mission.

[Lebowski]

I saw on the news tonight that the Pearl Harbor Survivors Association is disbanding because there aren't enough members left to keep it going....

[Dandy Dave]

I have one friend that collects Farmall Cubs, and Cub Cadet garden tractors, that is still with us. He served under General Patton. He was hit by shrapnel while running supplys in a Jeep. He was one in the crowd durring george Pattons Famous Speech.

The Famous Patton Speech | Printer Ink

I have another old neigbor and friend that pasted January 2011. He was in the group that invaded Italy. He said that that they thankfully met little, or no resistance.

Also, A hired man we had on the farm that passed last year. He was a cook. Dandy Dave!

Edited December 8, 2011 by Dandy Dave (see edit history)

[dship]

As previously mentioned, my dad was a Pearl Harbor survivor. He was up on deck of his assigned ship, the USS Oklahoma, at 8am on Dec 7th. He saw the plane/pilot drop the first torpedo which hit the ship and resulted in him being thrown overboard.

Not only did he serve in both the Pacific and Atlantic fleets during WWII, he also did two TOD's off the coast of Korea during that war. After Korea, he was a DI at the San Diego Training Center until 1957. He then transferred back to the Atlantic fleet.

He retired from the Navy in 1966 as a Senior Chief Gunners Mate having served 30 years. I lost him to cancer in 1981 at the young age of 64 (just two years older than I am right now).

[serb]

This is the same post I put in last year: "May all of our veterans from all wars find their special place in Heaven. I am proud to say that my Dad, his Brother, my Father-in-law and four of my Dad's cousins, my Mother's Brother were all part of the Greatest Generation. Of all of them, we had one death and my Uncle was a POW being liberated at about 95 lbs, down from about 170.

Do not forget our heroes from WWII". Let us also pay homage to all of our veterans both past and present. Again, God bless the Men and Women of the United States Armed Forces.

I will also add very proudly that my two brothers (USMC) both served in

Vietnam and I am a veteran of the US Army, Vietnam War Era.

Edited December 8, 2011 by serb (see edit history)

[stock_steve]

I did some reading-up today on the Pearl Harbor attack 70 years ago to refresh my knowledge, and feel a profound sadness for all the U.S. lives lost--there, and through all of World War II, and all wars our country has been involved in, past, present and future.

Thanks Veterans.

[Dandy Dave]

TTT, Least We Forget. This happend 71 years ago today. Dandy Dave!

[stock_steve]

TTT, Least We Forget. This happend 71 years ago today. Dandy Dave!

Certainly worth remembering, thanks Dandy Dave.

With all the goofy stuff that Google uses to dress up their corporate logo on certain memorial days, I would have liked to see something remembering December 7th today, but alas, no such luck.

[39BuickEight]

Greatest Generation indeed, from a 36 year old.

[rocketraider]

We went to Golden Corral for dinner last night and when we were walking thru the lot I saw a Virginia "Pearl Harbor Survivor" license plate on a Grand Marquis, so we knew there was someone special in the restaurant.

It was the old guy's 90th birthday. He was on the ground at PH, having turned nineteen just the day before the attack. We made sure to pay our respects and thanks for his service and for his milestone birthday.

The WWII vets (all vets do really) appreciate it- you can always see their gratitude that someone remembers and appreciates them, because there sure aren't many of them left. I have one uncle left who was in the Pacific Theater and he's 87 now.

[Guest marlin65]

My father-in-law who passed away last Dec was a flight engineer on B-17's and was at Hickam on Dec 7,'41.Was in the mess hall when the attack started.His sargeant told him to get back to Hickam and see how many planes we can get airborne.Two hours later he told his sargeant "sir we have no planes at Hickam,they are all destroyed"He sure had many harrowing stories to tell about the aftermath of the attack on the islands.Ed in Dade City,fl

[Marty Roth]

This is a time to remember, not only the tragic loss at Pearl Harbor, but all who served in WWII....

Dad served with the 6th Special Battallion, Seabees, USN...from the formation of the Seabees in January 1943 for the duration of the war in the Pacific.

His name and service are recorded in a brick at the entrance to THE WORLD WAR II MUSEUM IN NEW ORLEANS.

He said that the 9/11 attack reminded him of the 12/7/1941 attack on Pearl Harbor in some ways. He spent his career as a Firefighter.

I hope each of you may have the opportunity to visit this excellent museum as it grows into one of the finest venues with a WWII-era stage show and dinner (Chef John Besh), as well as the IMAX Theater show "Beyond All Boundries". Yes, I'm a charter member, and like to push it, but when you visit New Orleans.....this WWII Museum is a "Must See".

Edited December 9, 2012 by Marty Roth (see edit history)

[MarrsCars]

I wonder what this country would do if it happened today. Our heavy manufacturing base is miniscule compared to then, and not entirely sure the patriotism is there. I'd like to think it is though.

The US Military has been working recently to regain certain manufacturing in the US for improved National Security reasons now that we rely so much on technology, but just as it was then, we would rely heavily on the automobile industry to provide us with the means necessary to defend ourselves if it came to an all out war that was legitimately "all hands on deck". One point we are perhaps overlooking is the US Government has increased defense spending exponentially since pre-WWII precisely because of Pearl Harbor, we made an oath to never be caught with our pants down again so we have stockpiled weapons, tanks, aircraft, vehicles, and an all volunteer military to help insulate against such an event... not to even mention what goes into research and development of new technologies, many of which we will never hear about and thankfully neither will the enemy until the weapons are used against them.

It is sad that today many of those in our younger generations seem to lack the sense of duty to country those people all had along with the understanding that Freedom is never free.

This notion, as well as the other quote above regarding patriotism, is a bit unfair albeit understandable. We truly owe the Greatest Generation literally everything we have today, but remember too that when 9/11 happened every car had a flag, thousands upon thousands of young men and now women joined voluntarily to go off to fight in unknown lands against an enemy we didn't even have a clear picture of who we were fighting. We didn't have a draft because we do have so many patriotic "kids", some of them perhaps your very own, who believe in what America stands for. I was born in the 1970's and I know many people younger than myself who not only served, but returned with fewer limbs and severe burns or brain injuries from IED explosives, and others who lost their lives on foreign soil (still happening almost every day in fact) and I also lost one dear friend to suicide caused by PTSD ironically after he survived his many tours of duty physically unscathed. I am not knocking anyone for their opinion but rather, and please make the distinction, felt it was important to make it known and clear that today's younger generation of Americans have stood up when the call was made to defend our freedoms. If anything, that simply means that the generations before us taught us well and continue to do so. I'm an optimist by nature, and I don't see this changing, division happens on the news channels but not so much in real life, in the end, we are all Americans.

In keeping with the theme of the thread, my grandfather served in both WWII and Korea and was proud his entire life to have been one of the guards who secured the Bockscar on the evening before it departed for it's fateful mission to drop the Fat Man bomb on Nagasaki, thus ending the war. He, of course, had no idea of his role at the time as it was a secret kept even from him, but we visited that beautiful bird at the Air Force Museum in Ohio at WPAFB. A humbling experience for our family. He spoke of time as an airman, with nothing to warm the crews at high altitude aside from heavy leather coats lined with wool within the surprisingly tight confines of a bomber as they watched the vapor from their breaths freeze in mid-air.

Coincidentally, several months ago I happened across an album of photos that contained some startling images of the war, some were of a liberated concentration camp but there were others that intrigued me, it was a couple of Japanese officers among a sea of Americans. As it turned out from research, I have original photos of Lt. Gen. Kawabe who signed the preliminary surrender documents on August 25th, 1945 while the official surrender took place on Sept. 2nd. I will likely one day turn them over to a museum for display to the public. Here's an article about the event: Little known World War II surrender signed « War Tales

[Dave Mellor NJ]

One of the biggest problems we would have in preparing for an all out war is how do we get the machine over there,assuming we could make it again? We don't have a Merchant Marine, nor do most of our allies. In the first gulf war we brought ships out of mothballs and had to get 80 year olds to run them. After a few boilers salted up and heart attacks they gave up and called the low cost Asians. What if we were fighting the ones who run the merchant ships? We could reinstate the draft if need be but if the opponent is China we can't outman them.

[Guest]

One of the biggest problems we would have in preparing for an all out war is how do we get the machine over there,assuming we could make it again? We don't have a Merchant Marine, nor do most of our allies. In the first gulf war we brought ships out of mothballs and had to get 80 year olds to run them. After a few boilers salted up and heart attacks they gave up and called the low cost Asians. What if we were fighting the ones who run the merchant ships? We could reinstate the draft if need be but if the opponent is China we can't outman them.

Dave , we won't have to get the machine over there because the fight ia already coming from within. Just look at the news from the organizations that are taking the risk to be objective.

[Marty Roth]

Quote:

Coincidentally, several months ago I happened across an album of photos that contained some startling images of the war, some were of a liberated concentration camp but there were others that intrigued me, it was a couple of Japanese officers among a sea of Americans. As it turned out from research, I have original photos of Lt. Gen. Kawabe who signed the preliminary surrender documents on August 25th, 1945 while the official surrender took place on Sept. 2nd. I will likely one day turn them over to a museum for display to the public. Here's an article about the event: Little known World War II surrender signed « War Tales<!-- google_ad_section_end -->

MarrsCars:

I hope you would consider placing your photo and related documents on loan, or as a gift, to the National WORLD WAR II MUSEUM in New Orleans. This museum continues to expand, and within the next two years will encompass several city blocks. It is a major attraction as well as the official repository for such artifacts.

The National WWII Museum | New Orleans: VISIT: Plan A Visit

[dbirchmire]

I was honored to have visited the grave site of one of the Greatest of the Greatest Generation the other day. Major Dick Winters of Easy Company. Best known for his role in the HBO mini series Band of Brothers. He is from and entombed in Lancaster County Pa. Rest in Peace Sir.

[MarrsCars]

I hope you would consider placing your photo and related documents on loan, or as a gift, to the National WORLD WAR II MUSEUM in New Orleans. This museum continues to expand, and within the next two years will encompass several city blocks. It is a major attraction as well as the official repository for such artifacts.

The National WWII Museum | New Orleans: VISIT: Plan A Visit

Thank you for this, I have started thinking of where these various items would go, I also have small crash remnants from a German Dornier found in the UK that I feel would be interesting to the public as well. The European Theatre images would possibly go to the Holocaust Museum in DC but I was unsure of the Pacific stuff, specifically since my understanding is that there are very few known images from this particular event. I presumed the Smithsonian but it would get lost among the collection there and likely never displayed, considered WPAFB as well but not really an "Air Force" item, so this is a definite option. Thanks!

One of the biggest problems we would have in preparing for an all out war is how do we get the machine over there,assuming we could make it again? We don't have a Merchant Marine, nor do most of our allies. In the first gulf war we brought ships out of mothballs and had to get 80 year olds to run them. After a few boilers salted up and heart attacks they gave up and called the low cost Asians. What if we were fighting the ones who run the merchant ships? We could reinstate the draft if need be but if the opponent is China we can't outman them.

We should draw the distinction between an in-theatre war and one on our homeland or against an aggressor nation. The Gulf War wasn't necessarily on as strict a timeline as if we were attacked directly. The style of battle would be different in an all out assault as well, not door to door like the terrorist battles we have been engaged in but destroying industry, factories and the like of the enemy to cripple their ability to wage war. We would likely use an air war provided via aircraft carriers but also our increasing fleet of autonomous weapons like drones and satellites. We are developing (or likely already have) pulse-jet technology to put an aircraft over any spot on the planet within an hour, people report seeing these things all the time just like the rumors when Stealth was still secret in the 80's. Finally, remember that we have more military bases in other countries than any other nation on Earth, we can project power with greater ease (tho the Chinese are catching up with their first Carrier being readied as we speak) because we have an estimated 1,000 military bases around the globe that we did not mobilize for the Gulf region wars, but in the time of a crisis like another World War, you can be sure we would not sit idly by waiting for a country like Turkey to decide if we have fly-over rights. The UN Treaties would kick in and we would all be in it together, thus, all of our combined forces. Hope this puts your mind at ease a bit.

Edited December 9, 2012 by MarrsCars (see edit history)

[Guest toybox99615]

Alaska isses a special Pear Harbor Survivor license plate. At one time there were three of those in this town. Today they are no longer alive.

[rocketraider]

Sadly, the WW2 vets are leaving us quickly.

Obituaries in today's local paper included an 86 yr old WW2 vet and family friend, Aubrey Carter. Aubrey Lee, like most, would not talk much about his war experiences though knowing him did influence me to look to the electric utility business as a career. He was a VEPCO lineman for many years, retiring as a safety supervisor.

He also had a 1950 Pontiac that I wanted some kinda bad when I was a teenager but my dad talked me out of it, saying it was old-fashioned and not practical for a 1970s 16-year-old. Pfft. Me old man never understood wanting to bring an old car back to glory- his view was it would be a money pit.

Edited December 10, 2012 by rocketraider (see edit history)

[Guest Catskill123]

Dave, Nice to read the thread. At least there are still those that remember. I sometimes wonder how soon some will forget 911. I'll never forget standing in the US Cemetery in Luxembourg or for that matter Arlington National Cemetery in DC and viewing the rows upon rows of our KIA. I've visited numerous battle fields during my career, such as Belgium, Luxembourg, Estonia, Berlin, Berchesgarden Germany, England, Gettysburg and Antietam. As a retiree I am always very cognizant of the sacred ground where so many lives were lost defending this country. I remember my father talking about serving in the pacific, Gulf of Leyte and Pearl Harbor. I was shocked to listen to NBC news on the morning of Dec 7th. They failed to open up with any comment on Pearl Harbor that i remember hearing. Al Roker mentioned it standing outside when he read a sign held by a fan and realized it. i just don't understand how they don't see the need to remind viewers every year. I turned the channel immediately and don't know if they ever found the time to mention the lives lost. Thanks for a great thread ! Looking forward to meeting you soon. Rick

Edited December 11, 2012 by Catskill123 (see edit history)

[CarlLaFong]

I was honored to have visited the grave site of one of the Greatest of the Greatest Generation the other day. Major Dick Winters of Easy Company. Best known for his role in the HBO mini series Band of Brothers. He is from and entombed in Lancaster County Pa. Rest in Peace Sir.

Lewis Nixon's widow, Grace, is a member of my church. Very sweet lady.

[Dandy Dave]

TTT. 72 years ago today. For all those who serve, and have served, and the Heros who did not come home. I salute thee. Dandy Dave!

[R W Burgess]

Thanks Dave! May we never forget where our freedom comes from and why.

[Marty Roth]

TTT. 72 years ago today. For all those who serve, and have served, and the Heros who did not come home. I salute thee. Dandy Dave!

The WWII Museum in New Orleans is an appropriate destination for today.

Dad served with the 6th Special Battalion, SeaBees, USN from their formation in Dam Neck/Oceana, VA in early 1943, through the duration of the War in the Pacific - Vella Lavella, Fiji, Bougainville, etc.

May we never forget those who served, and continue to be vigilant, aware of those who would limit our freedoms.

[Guest myold88]

My Father, Marine John E. Carson was Killed by the Japanese on Iwo Jima, Feb 23, 1945,

the same day that we raised the American flag there....

I was only 2 years old so I never got to know him.

[keiser31]

My Father, Marine John E. Carson was Killed by the Japanese on Iwo Jima, Feb 23, 1945,

the same day that we raised the American flag there....

I was only 2 years old so I never got to know him.

My wife's uncle was a Marine and killed on Iwo Jima, too. My flag is out for all who served.

[Paul Dobbin]

There is a great program about December 7th & 8th on the History Channel today. 12/7/2013

[keiser31]

For a true life account of the fight, Google "John W. Finn". He was a good friend of mine who was at Pearl Harbor during the attack. He won the first Congressional Medal Of Honor awarded in WWII and a few years ago was invited to tour the White House and meet the President. He was a down to Earth and very funny guy.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_William_Finn

Edited December 7, 2013 by keiser31 (see edit history)

[Bill Harmatuk]

Any and every automobile that wasn't being used or driven, (my Dad saw it and told me about it), was taken to the scrap yard. Brass cars, Chrysler imperials, Cadillacs, Packards, you name it. Anything brass, copper, aluminum, or steel was hauled to the scrap yard for the war effort. Don't forget rubber and the ladies silk and wool, paper and cotton....even rags.

My parents moved South, from Syracuse, N.Y. at the beginning of the war to help build an Air Force Base near Elizabeth City, N.C. My Dad was born with a hernia, as a child, and couldn't enlist, which was a disgrace. He stayed and moved further South after the War, which made him a real DAMN Yankee, for sure.

God Bless America.

Bill H

[Pomeroy41144]

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The B-17 didn't use Wright engines. The B-17's came with four Pratt & Whitney R 1820-97 nine cylinder radials @ 1,200 HP.

I just told you I have seen one up close. How much proof do you need?

Don

Don

Don,

You are wrong, way way wrong on this one. The B-17 used Wright Cyclone R-1820 engines.

I have dozens and dozens of Aviation Reference works and I am an aviation historian and aviation author. Oh yeah, I have seen more than one B-17 "up close."

The following is just the tip of the iceberg when it comes to B-17 Reference works. All of these publications state that the B-17 Flying Fortress used Wright Cyclone R-1820 engines.

See page 57 of The Flying Fortress Story by Roger Freeman

See page 13 of Flying Fortress by Edward Jablonski

See page 20 of B-17 in Action by Larry Davis

See page 12 of B-17 in Detail and Scale by Alwyn T. Lloyd

See page 198 of The Official Pictorial History of the USAAF by US DoD

See page 105 of Flying Forts by Martin Caiden

See page 70 of the B-17 Pilot's Manual for B-17F and B-17G (Performance Data Charts).

Do I need to go on?

Heflen, how is it that all of these B-17 reference books could be wrong?

You need to tip off the US Air Force that they don't know what engine is in the B-17--See the link:

http://www.nationalmuseum.af.mil/factsheets/factsheet.asp?id=512

You better tell these warbird wrenchers that they don't know what engine is in their B-17--See the link:

Here is another link:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wright_R-1820

Edited December 7, 2013 by Pomeroy41144 (see edit history)

[Pomeroy41144]

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Another engine to mention is the Wright double Wasp R 2800 eighteen cylinder which found homes in the F-6F Hellcat, F-8F Bearcat, F-4U Corsair 1 (that bent wing bird is my favorite) , and the P-47 Thunderbolt.

Don

Are you joking?

Don, no offense but you are wrong here too. P&W made the R-2800. You have this backwards. Wright made the R-1820 and Pratt & Whitney made the R-2800.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pratt_&_Whitney_R-2800_Double_Wasp

[Pomeroy41144]

Boeing B-17C Flying Fortress (40-2074) destroyed at Hickam Field, Oahu, Territory of Hawaii, 07 Dec 1941. This aircraft was destroyed when flares in the radio room were ignited by strafing IJN fighter aircraft. One man was killed while running away from the burning B-17. This aircraft was piloted by Captain Raymond Swenson, 38th Reconnaissance Squadron.

[JACK M]

There is a great program about December 7th & 8th on the History Channel today. 12/7/2013

Must have been on this morning as ir is not in the line up this afternoon. Sure its the History channel? They seem to be rerunning the Hatfields and the McCoys today.

[Dandy Dave]

Yeah. I watched the Hatfields and McCoys this afternoon myself. Just went through a knee operation on Thursday so I have some recovery time laying around and watching the Boob Tube. The Pearl Harbor Shows were on this morning on different channels including History. Tora, Tora Tora was also on early in the day. Seems like big TV is burying this very important date more and more every year. Dandy Dave!